Beta Readers Wanted - Visual Basic 2005

[Jesse Liberty]

I am writing a new book on Visual Basic 2005, targeted at VB6 programmers,
and to some degree VB.NET 1.x programmers. I'd like to sign up a (limited)
number of volunteers to read the book and provide feedback.

To participate you would...
1. Sign a non-disclosure agreement
2. Read each chapter in Word format and mark it up and return it within a
week of receipt
3. Be open honest and direct, providing feedback about the content and
approach.

Those who participate and provide feedback will receive an acknowledgement
in the book and will also receive a copy of the book upon publication. There
is no financial or other compensation, I'm afraid.

If you are interested, please write to me at jl******@libertyassociates.com
(do not post a response here as it will clutter up the news group) and
please be sure to tell me your programming experience and level of interest
in VB 2005.

To learn more about me and my books, you may want to take a look at my web
site: http://www.LibertyAssociates.com

Thank you.

-j

[Larry Serflaten]

"Jesse Liberty" <jl******@libertyassociates.com> wrote i

I am writing a new book on Visual Basic 2005, targeted at VB6 programmers,
and to some degree VB.NET 1.x programmers. 3. Be open honest and direct, providing feedback about the content and
approach.

Several books target that audience, few target non-programmers.

Hint hint!
LFS

[Jesse Liberty]

My hope is that my book will be accessible to non-programmers, but the truth
is that there are about 2 million VB6 programmers who have not yet made the
swtich to VB.NET.

Also (and I know everyone says this) I think I'll be taking a radically
different approach. My theory is this: if I were going to teach you VB 2005
in person, I would not start with teaching you looping and conditionals. I'd
fire up Visual Studio and build an applicaiton, explaining what you need to
know about the language and about object oriented programming as we go. That
is how this book will work.

-j
"Larry Serflaten" <se*******@usinternet.com> wrote in message
news:O5**************@TK2MSFTNGP09.phx.gbl...

"Jesse Liberty" <jl******@libertyassociates.com> wrote i

I am writing a new book on Visual Basic 2005, targeted at VB6 programmers, and to some degree VB.NET 1.x programmers.

3. Be open honest and direct, providing feedback about the content and
approach.

Several books target that audience, few target non-programmers.

Hint hint!
LFS

[Larry Serflaten]

"Jesse Liberty" <jl******@libertyassociates.com> wrote

My hope is that my book will be accessible to non-programmers, but the truth
is that there are about 2 million VB6 programmers who have not yet made the
swtich to VB.NET.
And there are 1001 books that will try to get them to convert! ;-)

Also (and I know everyone says this) I think I'll be taking a radically
different approach.

My idea of a needed book on programming would begin with a short
history on the evolution of computers, a introduction to generic system
architecture (common motherboard components) and logic circuits
(AND/OR gates, etc.) and give the reader a feel for the evolution of
programming languages. That evolution would help to indicate why
hexidecimal is a common notation, and part of a chapter should
cover conversions from decimal to hex and binary, Hex arithmetic,
and include logic operations on Hex values.

Then go ahead with the basic loops and conditional constructs and
so forth, on into VB language syntax, the event processing model,
OOA/OOP (Object properties/methods), and framework classes,
et.al.

I am thinking anyone interested enough to pick up a book on programming
would be interested in the history of the technology (to some degree).
10 or so pages at the start may be all that is needed to capture the
interest of 'wannabe' programmers, without totally distracting the more
advanced users. (Having your facts correct would solidify what they
already know)

I mentioned it only because I've read several books already, and have been
in a couple courses where non-programmers bring up discussions on
dealing with the "things you did like that in VB6, you do like this in VB.NET"
syndrom that is inevitable in books of the type you indicated.

I'd suggest you avoid that pitfall. If your reader is a VB6 programmer,
chances are they can recognise what you are talking about was handled
differently in previous versions. If your reader is a non-programmer,
adding what some other language did is of no value, or use, and only
confuses the issue.

If you have also perpetrated that syndrom, I'd suggest you delete most
references of that nature, especially in cases where it would be fairly
obvious to the VB6 programmer what is going on.

How many pages was it? I have other things coming up, but, it can't
hurt to learn a thing or two... <g>

( I also have some text on the history of computing I wrote (several)
years ago for my own web site, if you'd be interested in how that might
look)

LFS

[Andrew Faust]

"Larry Serflaten" <se*******@usinternet.com> wrote in message
news:ev*************@TK2MSFTNGP11.phx.gbl...

My idea of a needed book on programming would begin with a
short
history on the evolution of computers, a introduction to
generic system
architecture (common motherboard components) and logic circuits
(AND/OR gates, etc.) and give the reader a feel for the
evolution of
programming languages. That evolution would help to indicate
why
hexidecimal is a common notation, and part of a chapter should
cover conversions from decimal to hex and binary, Hex
arithmetic,
and include logic operations on Hex values.

I agree. In my current library to get an idea of this history
you'd have to read through my 600+ page computer architecture
book, my 500+ page programming languages book and my 400+ page
theory of computation book. To have all this information neatly
summarized and presented in a manner that is accessible to
beginners would be invaluable.

Andrew Faust

[David]

On 2004-09-25, Larry Serflaten <se*******@usinternet.com> wrote:

"Jesse Liberty" <jl******@libertyassociates.com> wrote

My hope is that my book will be accessible to non-programmers, but the truth
is that there are about 2 million VB6 programmers who have not yet made the
swtich to VB.NET.

And there are 1001 books that will try to get them to convert! ;-)

Which ones are good?

That's a serious question, I don't really know what's out there for VB6
to VB.Net conversion, and I'm finding myself in a situation where I'm
dealing with a lot of people making that transition. There's a lot of
books that deal with the new syntax and the framework, but what I'm
really looking for is a higher level of abstraction.

It seems that books that deal with OOP in .Net start from scratch, while
good VB6 programmers have a starting point of object-based programming
of in COM and VB. Are there any good books out there that deal with
moving from object-based to object-oriented?

[Larry Serflaten]

"David" <df*****@woofix.local.dom> wrote

Which ones are good?
That may be a matter of taste.... :-(

That's a serious question, I don't really know what's out there for VB6
to VB.Net conversion, and I'm finding myself in a situation where I'm
dealing with a lot of people making that transition. There's a lot of
books that deal with the new syntax and the framework, but what I'm
really looking for is a higher level of abstraction.

It seems that books that deal with OOP in .Net start from scratch, while
good VB6 programmers have a starting point of object-based programming
of in COM and VB. Are there any good books out there that deal with
moving from object-based to object-oriented?

I haven't read this book, but I have others by this author and have listened to
him in person a couple times. This one, however, sounds more like what you're
after....

Visual Basic .NET Business Objects - by Rockford Lhotka
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg...63321?v=glance

Read the reviews, see if it may have what you want....

LFS

[Jesse Liberty]

I think you'll find that the book I'm writing is almost the exact opposite
of what you want <smile>

I do not intend to provide any of the background you are talking about; mine
will be a book in which you are creating a meaningful Visual Basic
application within the first 10 pages, and I will maintain a laser-focus on
the needs of the working professional (or very serious amateur) programmer.

In short, this is not a texbook nor an introductory book, but an
intermediate, hands-on, get working, be productive book. As for the pitfall
you mention, I think there is a happy middle ground of calling out in notes
the specific pitfalls and traps that mgiht await the unwary VB6 programmer.

As I said, serious novices may well be able to read the book, but they are
not the target.

Thanks!

-j

"Larry Serflaten" <se*******@usinternet.com> wrote in message
news:ev*************@TK2MSFTNGP11.phx.gbl...

"Jesse Liberty" <jl******@libertyassociates.com> wrote

My hope is that my book will be accessible to non-programmers, but the truth is that there are about 2 million VB6 programmers who have not yet made the swtich to VB.NET.
And there are 1001 books that will try to get them to convert! ;-)

Also (and I know everyone says this) I think I'll be taking a radically
different approach.

My idea of a needed book on programming would begin with a short
history on the evolution of computers, a introduction to generic system
architecture (common motherboard components) and logic circuits
(AND/OR gates, etc.) and give the reader a feel for the evolution of
programming languages. That evolution would help to indicate why
hexidecimal is a common notation, and part of a chapter should
cover conversions from decimal to hex and binary, Hex arithmetic,
and include logic operations on Hex values.

Then go ahead with the basic loops and conditional constructs and
so forth, on into VB language syntax, the event processing model,
OOA/OOP (Object properties/methods), and framework classes,
et.al.

I am thinking anyone interested enough to pick up a book on programming
would be interested in the history of the technology (to some degree).
10 or so pages at the start may be all that is needed to capture the
interest of 'wannabe' programmers, without totally distracting the more
advanced users. (Having your facts correct would solidify what they
already know)

I mentioned it only because I've read several books already, and have been
in a couple courses where non-programmers bring up discussions on
dealing with the "things you did like that in VB6, you do like this in

VB.NET" syndrom that is inevitable in books of the type you indicated.

I'd suggest you avoid that pitfall. If your reader is a VB6 programmer,
chances are they can recognise what you are talking about was handled
differently in previous versions. If your reader is a non-programmer,
adding what some other language did is of no value, or use, and only
confuses the issue.

If you have also perpetrated that syndrom, I'd suggest you delete most
references of that nature, especially in cases where it would be fairly
obvious to the VB6 programmer what is going on.

How many pages was it? I have other things coming up, but, it can't
hurt to learn a thing or two... <g>

( I also have some text on the history of computing I wrote (several)
years ago for my own web site, if you'd be interested in how that might
look)

LFS

[scorpion53061]

http://www.visualbasicbooks.com/progvbrev.html

This book was written with the experienced vb6 programmer in mind.

"Larry Serflaten" <se*******@usinternet.com> wrote in message
news:#y**************@TK2MSFTNGP09.phx.gbl:

"David" <df*****@woofix.local.dom> wrote

Which ones are good?

That may be a matter of taste.... :-(

That's a serious question, I don't really know what's out there for
VB6
to VB.Net conversion, and I'm finding myself in a situation where I'm
dealing with a lot of people making that transition. There's a lot of
books that deal with the new syntax and the framework, but what I'm
really looking for is a higher level of abstraction.

It seems that books that deal with OOP in .Net start from scratch,
while
good VB6 programmers have a starting point of object-based programming
of in COM and VB. Are there any good books out there that deal with
moving from object-based to object-oriented?

I haven't read this book, but I have others by this author and have
listened to
him in person a couple times. This one, however, sounds more like what
you're
after....

Visual Basic .NET Business Objects - by Rockford Lhotka

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg...071497-1963321
?v=glance

Read the reviews, see if it may have what you want....

LFS

[Jesse Liberty]

Belena's book is wonderfu, but totally different from what I have in mind.
His is a straight-forward tutorial, starting with fundamental language
skills. It is much more like the approach I take in Programming Visual
Basic.NET and Programming Windows Applications and Programming ASP.NET. I
think he has done a great job, but you don't learn about buildding web forms
until page 675, and you don't learn about builidng web forms until page
1195.

My new book will be much more about immediate productivity. We'll start by
building non-trivial applications, and learn the details as we go (using
side bars as needed).

There is room for both approaches, I hope, and I couldn't have more respect
for Balena's excellent book.

-j

"scorpion53061" <ad***@nospamherekjmsolutions.com> wrote in message
news:O3**************@tk2msftngp13.phx.gbl...

http://www.visualbasicbooks.com/progvbrev.html

[scorpion53061]

IN that case I would be very interested in joining in Beta reading.

If you still need any.

"Jesse Liberty" <jl******@libertyassociates.com> wrote in message
news:hN********************@speakeasy.net:

Belena's book is wonderfu, but totally different from what I have in
mind.
His is a straight-forward tutorial, starting with fundamental language
skills. It is much more like the approach I take in Programming Visual
Basic.NET and Programming Windows Applications and Programming ASP.NET.
I
think he has done a great job, but you don't learn about buildding web
forms
until page 675, and you don't learn about builidng web forms until page
1195.

My new book will be much more about immediate productivity. We'll start
by
building non-trivial applications, and learn the details as we go (using
side bars as needed).

There is room for both approaches, I hope, and I couldn't have more
respect
for Balena's excellent book.

-j

"scorpion53061" <ad***@nospamherekjmsolutions.com> wrote in message
news:O3**************@tk2msftngp13.phx.gbl...

http://www.visualbasicbooks.com/progvbrev.html

[Tony Proctor]

Of those 2 million non-movers Jesse, a significant number will be people who
already have experience of multiple languages, and of long-standing
experience. You only have to browse these newsgroups to see the depth of
experience and knowledge for some VB'ers. Unfortunately, they wouldn't
benefit from your book -- most of these would be "up and running" given one
day with a 'Language Reference' and an extra strong cup of coffee/tea.

I would suggest that these people are non-movers because of the weight of
legacy code that MS has left them. This code probably belongs to commercial
organisations, not hobbyists, and there's generally not enough time, or
money, or team resources, or reliable tools, to achieve the move. In effect,
VB6 has become a "block end". When *we* move, it will be to something with a
more certain future.

Please read this the right way -- I'm not trying to criticise or belittle
your work, only to paint a different perspective. I've no idea how many of
those 2 million would fall into this class, and how many are simply waiting
for a good book. I just had to say these things though as the issues are
valid, but they're blatantly ignored by people in any position to help. A
typical reaction is to consider those voices and whining, whinging, and
luddite.

Tony Proctor

"Jesse Liberty" <jl******@libertyassociates.com> wrote in message
news:Mc********************@speakeasy.net...

My hope is that my book will be accessible to non-programmers, but the truth is that there are about 2 million VB6 programmers who have not yet made the swtich to VB.NET.

Also (and I know everyone says this) I think I'll be taking a radically
different approach. My theory is this: if I were going to teach you VB 2005 in person, I would not start with teaching you looping and conditionals. I'd fire up Visual Studio and build an applicaiton, explaining what you need to know about the language and about object oriented programming as we go. That is how this book will work.

-j
"Larry Serflaten" <se*******@usinternet.com> wrote in message
news:O5**************@TK2MSFTNGP09.phx.gbl...

"Jesse Liberty" <jl******@libertyassociates.com> wrote i

I am writing a new book on Visual Basic 2005, targeted at VB6 programmers, and to some degree VB.NET 1.x programmers.

3. Be open honest and direct, providing feedback about the content and
approach.

Several books target that audience, few target non-programmers.

Hint hint!
LFS

[CJ Taylor]

Dan Appleman's Moving to VB.NET 3rd edition is awesome...

I looked at 4 books when making the conversion. Read em, then read
applemans, then read them again, made a lot more sense.

Again, VB6 creates a lot of bad habits, Appleman really tries to help you
through that.
"David" <df*****@woofix.local.dom> wrote in message
news:slrnclcdq2.9bv.df*****@woofix.local.dom...

On 2004-09-25, Larry Serflaten <se*******@usinternet.com> wrote:

"Jesse Liberty" <jl******@libertyassociates.com> wrote

My hope is that my book will be accessible to non-programmers, but the truth is that there are about 2 million VB6 programmers who have not yet made the swtich to VB.NET.

And there are 1001 books that will try to get them to convert! ;-)

Which ones are good?

That's a serious question, I don't really know what's out there for VB6
to VB.Net conversion, and I'm finding myself in a situation where I'm
dealing with a lot of people making that transition. There's a lot of
books that deal with the new syntax and the framework, but what I'm
really looking for is a higher level of abstraction.

It seems that books that deal with OOP in .Net start from scratch, while
good VB6 programmers have a starting point of object-based programming
of in COM and VB. Are there any good books out there that deal with
moving from object-based to object-oriented?

[Jesse Liberty]

Great, please send me email to jl******@libertyassociates.com telling me a
bit about your programming background. The program is temporarily full, but
I expect to open a few moe slots very quickly.

Thanks.

-j
"scorpion53061" <ad***@nospamherekjmsolutions.com> wrote in message
news:uW**************@TK2MSFTNGP10.phx.gbl...

IN that case I would be very interested in joining in Beta reading.

If you still need any.

"Jesse Liberty" <jl******@libertyassociates.com> wrote in message
news:hN********************@speakeasy.net:

Belena's book is wonderfu, but totally different from what I have in
mind.
His is a straight-forward tutorial, starting with fundamental language
skills. It is much more like the approach I take in Programming Visual
Basic.NET and Programming Windows Applications and Programming ASP.NET.
I
think he has done a great job, but you don't learn about buildding web
forms
until page 675, and you don't learn about builidng web forms until page
1195.

My new book will be much more about immediate productivity. We'll start
by
building non-trivial applications, and learn the details as we go (using
side bars as needed).

There is room for both approaches, I hope, and I couldn't have more
respect
for Balena's excellent book.

-j

"scorpion53061" <ad***@nospamherekjmsolutions.com> wrote in message
news:O3**************@tk2msftngp13.phx.gbl...

http://www.visualbasicbooks.com/progvbrev.html

[Jesse Liberty]

No, I think your points are excellent, and I' not in marketing. I'd be happy
to do a book like "An introduction to Programming using Visual Basic .NET"
though I'm not sure how big the audience would relaly be. Neat idea though.

-j

"Tony Proctor" <tony_proctor@aimtechnology_NoMoreSPAM_.com> wrote in message
news:%2****************@TK2MSFTNGP15.phx.gbl...

Of those 2 million non-movers Jesse, a significant number will be people who already have experience of multiple languages, and of long-standing
experience. You only have to browse these newsgroups to see the depth of
experience and knowledge for some VB'ers. Unfortunately, they wouldn't
benefit from your book -- most of these would be "up and running" given one day with a 'Language Reference' and an extra strong cup of coffee/tea.

I would suggest that these people are non-movers because of the weight of
legacy code that MS has left them. This code probably belongs to commercial organisations, not hobbyists, and there's generally not enough time, or
money, or team resources, or reliable tools, to achieve the move. In effect, VB6 has become a "block end". When *we* move, it will be to something with a more certain future.

Please read this the right way -- I'm not trying to criticise or belittle
your work, only to paint a different perspective. I've no idea how many of
those 2 million would fall into this class, and how many are simply waiting for a good book. I just had to say these things though as the issues are
valid, but they're blatantly ignored by people in any position to help. A
typical reaction is to consider those voices and whining, whinging, and
luddite.

Tony Proctor

"Jesse Liberty" <jl******@libertyassociates.com> wrote in message
news:Mc********************@speakeasy.net...

My hope is that my book will be accessible to non-programmers, but the

truth

is that there are about 2 million VB6 programmers who have not yet made

the

swtich to VB.NET.

Also (and I know everyone says this) I think I'll be taking a radically
different approach. My theory is this: if I were going to teach you VB

2005

in person, I would not start with teaching you looping and conditionals.

I'd

fire up Visual Studio and build an applicaiton, explaining what you need

to

know about the language and about object oriented programming as we go.

That

is how this book will work.

-j
"Larry Serflaten" <se*******@usinternet.com> wrote in message
news:O5**************@TK2MSFTNGP09.phx.gbl...

"Jesse Liberty" <jl******@libertyassociates.com> wrote i
> I am writing a new book on Visual Basic 2005, targeted at VB6

programmers,

> and to some degree VB.NET 1.x programmers.

> 3. Be open honest and direct, providing feedback about the content and > approach.

Several books target that audience, few target non-programmers.

Hint hint!
LFS

[CJ Taylor]

Hey Jesse,

Just so you know (I can't email at work) but I did review the preface last
night and will be leaving my comments later....

Just a little heads up.

-CJ

"Jesse Liberty" <jl******@libertyassociates.com> wrote in message
news:Zt********************@speakeasy.net...

Great, please send me email to jl******@libertyassociates.com telling me a
bit about your programming background. The program is temporarily full, but I expect to open a few moe slots very quickly.

Thanks.

-j
"scorpion53061" <ad***@nospamherekjmsolutions.com> wrote in message
news:uW**************@TK2MSFTNGP10.phx.gbl...

IN that case I would be very interested in joining in Beta reading.

If you still need any.

"Jesse Liberty" <jl******@libertyassociates.com> wrote in message
news:hN********************@speakeasy.net:

Belena's book is wonderfu, but totally different from what I have in
mind.
His is a straight-forward tutorial, starting with fundamental language
skills. It is much more like the approach I take in Programming Visual Basic.NET and Programming Windows Applications and Programming ASP.NET. I
think he has done a great job, but you don't learn about buildding web
forms
until page 675, and you don't learn about builidng web forms until page 1195.

My new book will be much more about immediate productivity. We'll start by
building non-trivial applications, and learn the details as we go (using side bars as needed).

There is room for both approaches, I hope, and I couldn't have more
respect
for Balena's excellent book.

-j

"scorpion53061" <ad***@nospamherekjmsolutions.com> wrote in message
news:O3**************@tk2msftngp13.phx.gbl...

> http://www.visualbasicbooks.com/progvbrev.html
>

[Jesse Liberty]

CJ, please don't leave msgs. here, it will annoy the other user group
members. Send me private meail or, better, use the private forum.

Thansk.
"CJ Taylor" <[cege] at [tavayn] dit commmmm> wrote in message
news:Oa**************@TK2MSFTNGP09.phx.gbl...

Hey Jesse,

Just so you know (I can't email at work) but I did review the preface last
night and will be leaving my comments later....

Just a little heads up.

-CJ