VB2005

[Wes Spikes]

Ok, first things first: I'm a VB classic programmer and am considering
upgrading now that I've seen VB2005. .NET1 & 1.5 never seemed to appeal to
me, but now I'm considering the 2005. Does anyone have any comments on it
from what you've experianced in the downloadable demo?

Thanks
-Wes

[Herfried K. Wagner [MVP]]

* "Wes Spikes" <Mo******@NOSPAMverizon.net> scripsit:

Ok, first things first: I'm a VB classic programmer and am considering
upgrading now that I've seen VB2005. .NET1 & 1.5 never seemed to appeal to
me, but now I'm considering the 2005. Does anyone have any comments on it
from what you've experianced in the downloadable demo?

It is hard to describe what I have experienced in the VB 2005 Express
Beta 1. There are improvements and some features will make work
easier. For example, in VB 2005 you won't see the code used to create
the controls on a form in your form's class. That's solved using VB
2005's partial classes. There are improved wizards and designers, there
is a 'My' namespace that provides easy access to often-used methods.

You see, what I have written above is similar to that what you can read
in the whitepapers about VB 2005. I suggest to download it and play
around with it yourself.

--
Herfried K. Wagner [MVP]
<URL:http://dotnet.mvps.org/>

[Wes Spikes]

Thanks, that's about the same thing I read on the classic group, but I just
wanted a less "religious" openion!

-Wes

"Herfried K. Wagner [MVP]" <hi***************@gmx.at> wrote in message
news:O1**************@TK2MSFTNGP09.phx.gbl...

* "Wes Spikes" <Mo******@NOSPAMverizon.net> scripsit:

Ok, first things first: I'm a VB classic programmer and am considering
upgrading now that I've seen VB2005. .NET1 & 1.5 never seemed to appeal to me, but now I'm considering the 2005. Does anyone have any comments on it from what you've experianced in the downloadable demo?

It is hard to describe what I have experienced in the VB 2005 Express
Beta 1. There are improvements and some features will make work
easier. For example, in VB 2005 you won't see the code used to create
the controls on a form in your form's class. That's solved using VB
2005's partial classes. There are improved wizards and designers, there
is a 'My' namespace that provides easy access to often-used methods.

You see, what I have written above is similar to that what you can read
in the whitepapers about VB 2005. I suggest to download it and play
around with it yourself.

--
Herfried K. Wagner [MVP]
<URL:http://dotnet.mvps.org/>

[Herfried K. Wagner [MVP]]

* "Wes Spikes" <Mo******@NOSPAMverizon.net> scripsit:

Thanks, that's about the same thing I read on the classic group, but I just
wanted a less "religious" openion!

My opinion in a few words: VB 2005 looks much better than the current
version. I am not sure if that's less "religious".

--
Herfried K. Wagner [MVP]
<URL:http://dotnet.mvps.org/>

[Herfried K. Wagner [MVP]]

* "Wes Spikes" <Mo******@NOSPAMverizon.net> scripsit:

Thanks, that's about the same thing I read on the classic group, but I just
wanted a less "religious" openion!

My opinion in a few words: VB 2005 looks much better than the current
version. I am not sure if that's less "religious".

--
Herfried K. Wagner [MVP]
<URL:http://dotnet.mvps.org/>

[Wes Spikes]

What I meant is with the coming of dotNET 1/1.5, everyone in the classic
newsgroups is completely anti-dotNET. And I know that people here will be
slightly abaised twords the dotNET framework, but that's fine as I'm trying
to get a second view.

Thanks
-Wes
"Herfried K. Wagner [MVP]" <hi***************@gmx.at> wrote in message
news:u0**************@TK2MSFTNGP09.phx.gbl...

* "Wes Spikes" <Mo******@NOSPAMverizon.net> scripsit:

Thanks, that's about the same thing I read on the classic group, but I just wanted a less "religious" openion!

My opinion in a few words: VB 2005 looks much better than the current
version. I am not sure if that's less "religious".

--
Herfried K. Wagner [MVP]
<URL:http://dotnet.mvps.org/>

[Herfried K. Wagner [MVP]]

* "Wes Spikes" <Mo******@NOSPAMverizon.net> scripsit:

What I meant is with the coming of dotNET 1/1.5, everyone in the classic
newsgroups is completely anti-dotNET. And I know that people here will be
slightly abaised twords the dotNET framework, but that's fine as I'm trying
to get a second view.

There are a couple of VB Classic programmers who don't want to use
..NET. I can understand their opinion and I am sad that VB Classic will
die sooner or later, but VB.NET is a nice programming language too. And
VB 2005 will be more "productive", with more designers, a better IDE,
....

Hard to say -> test it yourself ;-).

--
Herfried K. Wagner [MVP]
<URL:http://dotnet.mvps.org/>

[Ricky W. Hunt]

"Herfried K. Wagner [MVP]" <hi***************@gmx.at> wrote in message
news:Od**************@TK2MSFTNGP09.phx.gbl...

There are a couple of VB Classic programmers who don't want to use
.NET. I can understand their opinion and I am sad that VB Classic will
die sooner or later, but VB.NET is a nice programming language too. And
VB 2005 will be more "productive", with more designers, a better IDE,
...

Will all of these new languages (VB, C and it's offspring, JAVA, etc.) all
"converge" sooner or later? (and there be pretty much "one" language?). I've
been programming since the late 70's (that eon's in computer-time) and it
seems even the "higher" level languages like BASIC are getting capable of
pretty low-level. The syntax is getting so close between VB.NET and C that
I can't see there being a programmatic reason (much less a financial one) to
keep maintaining all these separate products (C was supposedly
"cross-platform" so why the need for JAVA, etc.,?). Will it really be worth
it to have so many different languages in the future when a handful of
changes in all but the most extreme cases (in which case you could use a
special library or class) will work for most people?

[Les Hughes]

I am actually a fan of seeing the designer code, I find it easier to
tweak and debug by looking at the direct code.

A few more notes on 2005, I found that it:
- Compiled my code faster (a big solution with about 18 projects in it)
- Compiled programs ran faster, database stuff seemed faster too.
- Compiled Programs at less ram.

Anyone else experience this? Also, what are your thoughts on hiding the
designer code? Does anyone know if you can 'switch it back on' somewhere?

Regards,

Les Hughes
Herfried K. Wagner [MVP] wrote:

* "Wes Spikes" <Mo******@NOSPAMverizon.net> scripsit:

What I meant is with the coming of dotNET 1/1.5, everyone in the classic
newsgroups is completely anti-dotNET. And I know that people here will be
slightly abaised twords the dotNET framework, but that's fine as I'm trying
to get a second view.

There are a couple of VB Classic programmers who don't want to use
.NET. I can understand their opinion and I am sad that VB Classic will
die sooner or later, but VB.NET is a nice programming language too. And
VB 2005 will be more "productive", with more designers, a better IDE,
...

Hard to say -> test it yourself ;-).

[Herfried K. Wagner [MVP]]

Les,

* Les Hughes <le*************@datarev.com.au> scripsit:

I am actually a fan of seeing the designer code, I find it easier to
tweak and debug by looking at the direct code.
If there is a need to debug the code, I agree. If the designer is
perfect enough in order to make looking at the code unnecessary, I don't
need to be able to take a look at the designer generated code. For
example, in VB6 the designer generated code was stored in a different
format (in declarative form) at the beginning of form files. The VB
editor didn't show this code, but using a text editor and opening the
form file it was easy to see what's going on behind the scenes.
A few more notes on 2005, I found that it:
- Compiled my code faster (a big solution with about 18 projects in it)
- Compiled programs ran faster, database stuff seemed faster too.
- Compiled Programs at less ram.

Anyone else experience this? Also, what are your thoughts on hiding
I didn't play around with 2005 and large projects. I didn't yet have
enough time to see all the new features of the VB programming language
;-).
the designer code? Does anyone know if you can 'switch it back on'
somewhere?

Yes, you can do that by clicking the "Show all files" button in solution
explorer, AFAIR. Then you will see that each of the form classes has a
partial class that includes the constructor, the control initialization
code and some other stuff.

--
Herfried K. Wagner [MVP]
<URL:http://dotnet.mvps.org/>

[Cindy Winegarden]

In news: Rl*****************@nwrddc02.gnilink.net,
Wes Spikes <Mo******@NOSPAMverizon.net> wrote:

Ok, first things first: I'm a VB classic programmer and am considering
upgrading now that I've seen VB2005. .NET1 & 1.5 never seemed to
appeal to me, but now I'm considering the 2005. Does anyone have any
comments on it from what you've experianced in the downloadable demo?

Hi Wes,

There are special newsgroups for VB2005 (both the Express and full
versions). The information is at
http://lab.msdn.microsoft.com/vs2005/community/. Reading the newsgroups is a
good way to learn.

--
Cindy Winegarden MCSD, Microsoft Visual FoxPro MVP
ci**************@mvps.org www.cindywinegarden.com

[KC]

The last VB I used was VB4. The whole object oriented thing took a while to
get use to, and you'll probably find some things that were easy to do are a
little more involved but after all is said and done I love it. I've spent
the last 3-years writing in Perl, ASP, some Java. This thing will probably
make lazy as hell (it will do little things like indent for you, underline
undeclared variables, tons more...really, gobs).

It's classic microsoft. It may take them several tries to get something
right but once they do it usually knocks your socks off - and you hate
admitting they did.

Ken
"Cindy Winegarden" <ci**************@mvps.org> wrote in message
news:Oy**************@TK2MSFTNGP12.phx.gbl...

In news: Rl*****************@nwrddc02.gnilink.net,
Wes Spikes <Mo******@NOSPAMverizon.net> wrote:

Ok, first things first: I'm a VB classic programmer and am considering
upgrading now that I've seen VB2005. .NET1 & 1.5 never seemed to
appeal to me, but now I'm considering the 2005. Does anyone have any
comments on it from what you've experianced in the downloadable demo?
Hi Wes,

There are special newsgroups for VB2005 (both the Express and full
versions). The information is at
http://lab.msdn.microsoft.com/vs2005/community/. Reading the newsgroups is

a good way to learn.

--
Cindy Winegarden MCSD, Microsoft Visual FoxPro MVP
ci**************@mvps.org www.cindywinegarden.com

[Herfried K. Wagner [MVP]]

Ricky,

* "Ricky W. Hunt" <rh*****@hotmail.com> scripsit:

There are a couple of VB Classic programmers who don't want to use
.NET. I can understand their opinion and I am sad that VB Classic will
die sooner or later, but VB.NET is a nice programming language too. And
VB 2005 will be more "productive", with more designers, a better IDE,
...
Will all of these new languages (VB, C and it's offspring, JAVA, etc.) all
"converge" sooner or later? (and there be pretty much "one"
language?).

I don't think so. If you have a look at VB 2005 and C# 2005, you will
see that both languages didn't come closer. The distance between them
IMO became larger. For example, VB provides the 'My' namespace, C#
doesn't.
been programming since the late 70's (that eon's in computer-time) and it
seems even the "higher" level languages like BASIC are getting capable of
pretty low-level. The syntax is getting so close between VB.NET and C that
I can't see there being a programmatic reason (much less a financial one) to
I don't see VB.NET become more low-level, but I am seeing C becoming
more high-level in C#. Still, C# has a low-level and outdated syntax.
keep maintaining all these separate products (C was supposedly
"cross-platform" so why the need for JAVA, etc.,?). Will it really be
worth
I think there is a big difference in C being cross-platform and Java
being it. In C, you needed compilers for each platform, and that caused
problems because compilers were not available or had bugs on different
platforms. Java needs an execution environment on each platform which
raises other problems, but not the same as in C.
it to have so many different languages in the future when a handful of
changes in all but the most extreme cases (in which case you could use a
special library or class) will work for most people?

IMO it's all about softly "migrating" the C programmers to a high-level
syntax, like the syntax of VB.NET.

--
Herfried K. Wagner [MVP]
<URL:http://dotnet.mvps.org/>