Posting Etiquitte?

[Jeff Brown]

I hear people say not to multipost, does these mean not to ask the same
question in another group or to submit the question to all the groups via
the same submission, with multiple newsgroups in the "send to" box? Just a
curious question from someone who has only googled and altavista'd since the
beginning of time.

Jeff

[Fergus Cooney]

Hi Jeff,

Does cross-posting make us into cross posters? :-)

Herfried is the one who polices the cross-posters mostly so I'll be
interested in his view.

My view is that if I see a lot of newsgroups I will tend not to answer
until some time has passed, as there will be a lot of people viewing and
possibly offering their solutions. But that assumes that I notice, lol - it's
often only Herfried's telling off that alerts me to the fact! :-)

I think it's bad form to post to multiple groups and <not> put them all
together. When I reply to a query that is in, say, languages.csharp as well as
languages.vb, I can see my answer come up there too. This will benefit the C#
people as well as the VBers. If I see the same post in another group but <not>
cross-posted, I find it annoying if I've answered it here and some else has
answered it there - either one of us has wasted their time, or there's a
partial answer in two different places.

I recently had an enquiry to make myself. Out of politeness I posted to a
single group. I was informed that that wasn't quite the right group for my
question and redirected. The next day I posted to another group . No-one
responded. The next day I tried a third and still no-one responded. Had I
cross-posted, I would have known a bit sooner that no-one was going to answer.
:-) To hell with etiquette! Next time I'm posting to any group that may or may
not be even remotely relevant!! *

|| .. googled and altavista'd since the beginning of time.

You've been places!! You must have a few good stories to tell around the
campfire. :-)

Regards,
Fergus

* Not really ;-) but I <will> cross-post to a choice few (assuming I know how
to make a good choice).

[Herfried K. Wagner [MVP]]

Hello,

"Jeff Brown" <no******@thistime.com> schrieb:

I hear people say not to multipost, does these mean not to
ask the same question in another group or to submit the
question to all the groups via the same submission, with
multiple newsgroups in the "send to" box?

Multiposts are really "bad" because if a question is posted to ng A and B
and I reply to the question in ng B, people who read only ng A won't see the
answer and post an answer too. X-posts are tolerated if they are posted to
groups _related to the topic of the question_ only.

Tips for Using the MSDN Web-Based Newsgroup Client
http://msdn.microsoft.com/newsgroups...Pages/tips.asp

--
Herfried K. Wagner
MVP · VB Classic, VB.NET
http://www.mvps.org/dotnet

[One Handed Man [ OHM ]]

I think it is valid to cross post when you are not sure which group to put
it in , but where the groups are closely related.

I wanted the answer to an access question the other day, but couldnt decide
which one, so I cross posted to four groups and got an answer in about three
minutes.

It worked for me.

Regards OHM

"Fergus Cooney" <fi******@tesco.net> wrote in message
news:u5**************@TK2MSFTNGP12.phx.gbl...

Hi Jeff,

Does cross-posting make us into cross posters? :-)

Herfried is the one who polices the cross-posters mostly so I'll be
interested in his view.

My view is that if I see a lot of newsgroups I will tend not to answer
until some time has passed, as there will be a lot of people viewing and
possibly offering their solutions. But that assumes that I notice, lol - it's often only Herfried's telling off that alerts me to the fact! :-)

I think it's bad form to post to multiple groups and <not> put them all together. When I reply to a query that is in, say, languages.csharp as well as languages.vb, I can see my answer come up there too. This will benefit the C# people as well as the VBers. If I see the same post in another group but <not> cross-posted, I find it annoying if I've answered it here and some else has answered it there - either one of us has wasted their time, or there's a
partial answer in two different places.

I recently had an enquiry to make myself. Out of politeness I posted to a single group. I was informed that that wasn't quite the right group for my
question and redirected. The next day I posted to another group . No-one
responded. The next day I tried a third and still no-one responded. Had I
cross-posted, I would have known a bit sooner that no-one was going to answer. :-) To hell with etiquette! Next time I'm posting to any group that may or may not be even remotely relevant!! *

|| .. googled and altavista'd since the beginning of time.

You've been places!! You must have a few good stories to tell around the campfire. :-)

Regards,
Fergus

* Not really ;-) but I <will> cross-post to a choice few (assuming I know how to make a good choice).

[Herfried K. Wagner [MVP]]

Hello,

"One Handed Man [ OHM ]" <te***************************@BTOpenworld.com>
schrieb:

I think it is valid to cross post when you are not sure which
group to put it in , but where the groups are closely related.

I wanted the answer to an access question the other day,
but couldnt decide which one, so I cross posted to four
groups and got an answer in about three minutes.

That's ok.

--
Herfried K. Wagner
MVP · VB Classic, VB.NET
http://www.mvps.org/dotnet

[Charles Law]

Hi Herfried

I'm confused. Is cross-posting the act of sending the same question multiple
times, once to each of several groups, as distinct from sending the question
once only but to several groups?

In the latter case, doesn't an answer to the post in one group appear in the
other groups? If that were the case, I would have thought that this would
have been of benefit to all, poster and responders; I think as Fergus
suggested.

Charles
"Herfried K. Wagner [MVP]" <hi*******@m.activevb.de> wrote in message
news:%2***************@TK2MSFTNGP09.phx.gbl...

Hello,

"Jeff Brown" <no******@thistime.com> schrieb:

I hear people say not to multipost, does these mean not to
ask the same question in another group or to submit the
question to all the groups via the same submission, with
multiple newsgroups in the "send to" box?
Multiposts are really "bad" because if a question is posted to ng A and B
and I reply to the question in ng B, people who read only ng A won't see

the answer and post an answer too. X-posts are tolerated if they are posted to groups _related to the topic of the question_ only.

Tips for Using the MSDN Web-Based Newsgroup Client
http://msdn.microsoft.com/newsgroups...Pages/tips.asp
--
Herfried K. Wagner
MVP · VB Classic, VB.NET
http://www.mvps.org/dotnet

[Cor]

Hi,
I don't know, maybe posting is not the problem, but answering.
When you see the tread about the FREE SQL, it is loaded with answers that
are sure from other newsgroups and they don't intrest me at all.
You maybe want to answer, "you don't have to read them", can be, but there
where answers from NAK too in, and mostly I read those and too the answers
on the messages from Nick.
I don't have an answer for the problem, but I don't like it.
When I see a cross post, I try only to answer to the newsgroup I am in.
Cor

[Herfried K. Wagner [MVP]]

Hello,

"Cor" <no*@non.com> schrieb:

When you see the tread about the FREE SQL,

Seemed to be a troll-post.

--
Herfried K. Wagner
MVP · VB Classic, VB.NET
http://www.mvps.org/dotnet

[Fergus Cooney]

Hi Herfried,

What <is> a 'troll' specifically ?

Regards,
Fergus

[Cor]

Hi Herfried,
I think that it is not important that it is a troll post.
I don't know what to do with the subject, so lets write about it.

When there is to much trawling we can kick him back to Sylvania where I
heard they lives.
:-)
Cor

[Herfried K. Wagner [MVP]]

Hello,

"Fergus Cooney" <fi******@tesco.net> schrieb:

What <is> a 'troll' specifically ?

A "troll" is someone who posts something that causes a big OT discussion.

--
Herfried K. Wagner
MVP · VB Classic, VB.NET
http://www.mvps.org/dotnet

[Fergus Cooney]

Hi Herfried,

I guess it's a traditional word - any idea where it came from ? For me the
image of Trolls is that they bash things - which doesn't seem to fit somehow.

Regards,
Fergus

[Herfried K. Wagner [MVP]]

Hello,

"Fergus Cooney" <fi******@tesco.net> schrieb:

I guess it's a traditional word - any idea where it came from ?
For me the image of Trolls is that they bash things - which
doesn't seem to fit somehow.

Sorry, I do not have more information why those people are called trolls.
Maybe a Google Search helps. In German, a "Troll" is somebody who behaves
in a foreign, stupid way.

--
Herfried K. Wagner
MVP · VB Classic, VB.NET
http://www.mvps.org/dotnet

[Herfried K. Wagner [MVP]]

Hello,

"Cor" <no*@non.com> schrieb:

When there is to much trawling we can kick him back to
Sylvania where I heard they lives.

Ah, I didn't know that...

--
Herfried K. Wagner
MVP · VB Classic, VB.NET
http://www.mvps.org/dotnet

[Charles Law]

Hi All

My dictionary has the following definition:

verb Computing, informal: send (an e-mail message or posting on the
Internet) intended to provoke a response from he reader by containing
errors.

Also a noun.

I had assumed it was from the noun: a mythical, cave-dwelling being depicted
in folklore as either a giant or a dwarf, typically having a very ugly
appearance; from the Old Norse and Swedish troll, Danish trold. They are
generally thought to be very grumpy and disaffected, which often
characterises troll postings.

Charles
"Fergus Cooney" <fi******@tesco.net> wrote in message
news:%2****************@tk2msftngp13.phx.gbl...

Hi Herfried,

I guess it's a traditional word - any idea where it came from ? For me the image of Trolls is that they bash things - which doesn't seem to fit somehow.
Regards,
Fergus

[Fergus Cooney]

Thanks Charles, :-)

Regards,
Fergus

[Fergus Cooney]

Thanks anyway, Herfried, I was just being too tired to search. ;-)

Regards,
Fergus

[William Ryan]

Troll from H3LL. I had a few brews in me that night so I wasted time
posting back...should have just ignored it but I love the whole notion of
Troll Posts. And they never seem to know what they are talking about.
"Herfried K. Wagner [MVP]" <hi*******@m.activevb.de> wrote in message
news:OR**************@TK2MSFTNGP09.phx.gbl...

Hello,

"Cor" <no*@non.com> schrieb:

When you see the tread about the FREE SQL,

Seemed to be a troll-post.

--
Herfried K. Wagner
MVP · VB Classic, VB.NET
http://www.mvps.org/dotnet

[Cor]

Hi Herfried,
Mis understood about troll, I thought you give me an attention that this was
too a troll post.
Happenly William showed that to me.
Cor

[One Handed Man [ OHM ]]

Now I know what a troll is, I can sleep soundly in my bed at night. I used
to think that trolls hide in my wardrobe or under my bed. Now I know they
live in thousands of people houses and post OT threads when the computer
owners are asleep in bed.

;-D

"Fergus Cooney" <fi******@tesco.net> wrote in message
news:ue**************@TK2MSFTNGP12.phx.gbl...

Thanks Charles, :-)

Regards,
Fergus

[Fergus Cooney]

Hi One Handed Man,

The one in your wardrobe's a Doll not a Troll. She only looks so ugly
because you're supposed to blow her up first! ;-)

Sleep tight.

Regards,
Fergus

[Paul Clement]

On Tue, 16 Sep 2003 12:28:09 +0200, "Herfried K. Wagner [MVP]" <hi*******@m.activevb.de> wrote:

¤ Hello,
¤
¤ "Jeff Brown" <no******@thistime.com> schrieb:
¤ > I hear people say not to multipost, does these mean not to
¤ > ask the same question in another group or to submit the
¤ > question to all the groups via the same submission, with
¤ > multiple newsgroups in the "send to" box?
¤
¤ Multiposts are really "bad" because if a question is posted to ng A and B
¤ and I reply to the question in ng B, people who read only ng A won't see the
¤ answer and post an answer too. X-posts are tolerated if they are posted to
¤ groups _related to the topic of the question_ only.
¤

Which is why we shouldn't be so quick to punt them to other newsgroups when the question is VB.NET
related (e.g. Office automation, ADO.NET, etc.)
Paul ~~~ pc******@ameritech.net
Microsoft MVP (Visual Basic)

[Nak]

> When there is to much trawling we can kick him back to

Sylvania where I heard they lives.

I thought it was France personally.

Nick.

--
/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\
"No matter. Whatever the outcome, you are changed."

Fergus - September 5th 2003
/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\

[Nak]

> The one in your wardrobe's a Doll not a Troll. She only looks so ugly

because you're supposed to blow her up first! ;-)

ROFL!!

Nick.

--
/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\
"No matter. Whatever the outcome, you are changed."

Fergus - September 5th 2003
/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\

[Herfried K. Wagner [MVP]]

Hello,

"Paul Clement" <Us***********************@swspectrum.com> schrieb:

Which is why we shouldn't be so quick to punt them to
other newsgroups when the question is VB.NET related
(e.g. Office automation, ADO.NET, etc.)

;-)

--
Herfried K. Wagner
MVP · VB Classic, VB.NET
http://www.mvps.org/dotnet

[Herfried K. Wagner [MVP]]

Hello,

"Fergus Cooney" <fi******@tesco.net> schrieb:

Thanks anyway, Herfried, I was just being too tired to
search. ;-)

I am not sure if the word has the same meaning in English.

;-)

--
Herfried K. Wagner
MVP · VB Classic, VB.NET
http://www.mvps.org/dotnet

[Fergus Cooney]

Hi Herfried,

|| In German, a "Troll" is somebody who
|| behaves in a foreign, stupid way.

No, we take our meaning from the Norse tales. And, more recently, from
Terry Pratchett's DiscWorld series.

You haven't read Terry Pratchett? You <must>!! Make a promise to yourself.
Essential reading. [continues to rave in a most disgustingly enthusiastic
manner - more than his love for .NET...]

;-)

Regards,
Fergus

[Herfried K. Wagner [MVP]]

Hello,

"Fergus Cooney" <fi******@tesco.net> schrieb:

You haven't read Terry Pratchett? You <must>!! Make
a promise to yourself.

I will do that when Microsoft's public newsgroups get closed.

;-)

--
Herfried K. Wagner
MVP · VB Classic, VB.NET
http://www.mvps.org/dotnet

[Fergus Cooney]

Hi Herfried,

Fortunately Terry Pratchett's humour is timeless - you can enjoy it in
your sunset years.

Alternatively you could read a page or two a day when you go and 'sit on
the throne'. ;-)

Regards,
Fergus

[Herfried K. Wagner [MVP]]

Hello,

"Fergus Cooney" <fi******@tesco.net> schrieb:

The one in your wardrobe's a Doll not a Troll. She only
looks so ugly because you're supposed to blow her up first! ;-)

ROFL

--
Herfried K. Wagner
MVP · VB Classic, VB.NET
http://www.mvps.org/dotnet

[Herfried K. Wagner [MVP]]

Hello,

"Fergus Cooney" <fi******@tesco.net> schrieb:

Fortunately Terry Pratchett's humour is timeless - you can
enjoy it in your sunset years.

Alternatively you could read a page or two a day when you go
and 'sit on the throne'. ;-)

I'll do that...

;-)))

--
Herfried K. Wagner
MVP · VB Classic, VB.NET
http://www.mvps.org/dotnet

[Nak]

> > Alternatively you could read a page or two a day when you go

and 'sit on the throne'. ;-)

I'll do that...

LOL!!! Try not to slash on the book though hey?

Nick.

--
/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\
"No matter. Whatever the outcome, you are changed."

Fergus - September 5th 2003
/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\

[Cindy Meister -WordMVP-]

Hi Charles,

I'm confused. Is cross-posting the act of sending the same question multiple
times, once to each of several groups, as distinct from sending the question
once only but to several groups?

Cross-posting is selecting several groups and sending the question once, as
Fergus suggested :-)

Cindy Meister

[Charles Law]

Hi Cindy

That being the case, it would seem that - so long as there are not too many
groups in the list - this could be useful where several groups overlap?

Charles
"Cindy Meister -WordMVP-" <Ci**********@swissonline.ch> wrote in message
news:VA.0000857f.00cbcd95@speedy...

Hi Charles,

I'm confused. Is cross-posting the act of sending the same question multiple times, once to each of several groups, as distinct from sending the question once only but to several groups?
Cross-posting is selecting several groups and sending the question once,

as Fergus suggested :-)

Cindy Meister

[Herfried K. Wagner [MVP]]

Hello,

"Charles Law" <bl**@thingummy.com> schrieb:

That being the case, it would seem that - so long as there
are not too many groups in the list - this could be useful
where several groups overlap?

Yes -- X-posts _can_ be useful if the groups are related to the topic.

--
Herfried K. Wagner
MVP · VB Classic, VB.NET
http://www.mvps.org/dotnet

[Jeff Johnson [MVP: VB]]

"Jeff Brown" <no******@thistime.com> wrote in message
news:0a*****************@twister.austin.rr.com...

I hear people say not to multipost, does these mean not to ask the same
question in another group or to submit the question to all the groups via
the same submission, with multiple newsgroups in the "send to" box? Just a
curious question from someone who has only googled and altavista'd since the beginning of time.

Here's my standard reply to multi-posting (saved as a signature):
You have posted this question individually to multiple groups. This is
called Multiposting and it's BAD. Replies made in one group will not be
visible in the other groups, which may cause multiple people to respond to
your question with the same answer because they didn't know someone else had
already done it. This is a waste of time.

If you MUST post your message to multiple groups, post a single message and
select all the groups (or type their names manually, separated by commas) in
which you want it to be seen. This is called Crossposting and when used
properly it is GOOD.

Your question has been answered in another group. Which one? See the problem
with multiposting?

[Cor]

Hi Jeff,
Do you mean the same methode as sending spam, send it to as much adresses as
you know?
You never knows if there is someone is so stupid to answer you, yes a very
good method.
Cor

[Cindy Meister -WordMVP-]

Hi Charles,

That being the case, it would seem that - so long as there are not too many
groups in the list - this could be useful where several groups overlap?

Yes, I agree with Herfried and the others on this. And have even found it
very informative, on occasion, as I often end up learning something from
someone posting in a group I normally don't visit :-)

Cindy Meister

[Cindy Meister -WordMVP-]

Hi Charles,

That being the case, it would seem that - so long as there are not too many
groups in the list - this could be useful where several groups overlap?

Yes, I agree with Herfried and the others on this. And have even found it
very informative, on occasion, as I often end up learning something from
someone posting in a group I normally don't visit :-)

Cindy Meister

[Nak]

Hi people,

I'm having a bit of a brain storm at the minute and wouldn't mind some
personal opinions on some things.

To license my applications I have decided to make a license manager
service that holds application license files (RSA encrypted). When the
application launches the license manager is consulted as to whether the
application is *allowed* to run or not. The license file for that
particular application is held by the license manager which decrypts it and
responds as necessary.

Now what I wanted to do was make the license file simply an XML file
that contains some information, but it's what information it *should*
contain is what my main concern is, for example...

Obligatory information,

* Name
* Company

"Is this a 'Privacy invasion" information?"

* Contact details
* System information (To prevent the application from being used on more
than 1 system).

Hmmm, any ideas on this?

BTW, this is something that I may want to release for free, so some of
you may be interested in this, I'm certainly interested in making my
applications more secure with as little code as possible are you?

Nick.

--
/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\
"No matter. Whatever the outcome, you are changed."

Fergus - September 5th 2003
/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\

[Stephany Young]

If such a thing were used in this country it would not be privacy invasion.
If however, this 'mechanism' 'published' information that it should not to
persons that it should not then it would be in breach of the Privacy Act.

Holding information itself is not a breach. However, publishing such
information when one is constrained by legislation, regulation or promise is
a breach.

From my point of view, aiming at 'as little code as possible' should not be
the prime concern. It should take as make code as it needs to make it
function effectively.

--
Stephany Young
MVP (Cooking, Cleaning, Laundry, Gardening, Decryption of Husband-Speak and
Teenager-Speak)
"Nak" <[e-mail]> wrote in message
news:Ou*************@tk2msftngp13.phx.gbl...

Hi people,

I'm having a bit of a brain storm at the minute and wouldn't mind some
personal opinions on some things.

To license my applications I have decided to make a license manager
service that holds application license files (RSA encrypted). When the
application launches the license manager is consulted as to whether the
application is *allowed* to run or not. The license file for that
particular application is held by the license manager which decrypts it and responds as necessary.

Now what I wanted to do was make the license file simply an XML file
that contains some information, but it's what information it *should*
contain is what my main concern is, for example...

Obligatory information,

* Name
* Company

"Is this a 'Privacy invasion" information?"

* Contact details
* System information (To prevent the application from being used on more than 1 system).

Hmmm, any ideas on this?

BTW, this is something that I may want to release for free, so some of
you may be interested in this, I'm certainly interested in making my
applications more secure with as little code as possible are you?

Nick.

--
/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\ "No matter. Whatever the outcome, you are changed."

Fergus - September 5th 2003
/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\

[Nak]

Hi people,

I'm having a bit of a brain storm at the minute and wouldn't mind some
personal opinions on some things.

To license my applications I have decided to make a license manager
service that holds application license files (RSA encrypted). When the
application launches the license manager is consulted as to whether the
application is *allowed* to run or not. The license file for that
particular application is held by the license manager which decrypts it and
responds as necessary.

Now what I wanted to do was make the license file simply an XML file
that contains some information, but it's what information it *should*
contain is what my main concern is, for example...

Obligatory information,

* Name
* Company

"Is this a 'Privacy invasion" information?"

* Contact details
* System information (To prevent the application from being used on more
than 1 system).

Hmmm, any ideas on this?

BTW, this is something that I may want to release for free, so some of
you may be interested in this, I'm certainly interested in making my
applications more secure with as little code as possible are you?

Nick.

--
/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\
"No matter. Whatever the outcome, you are changed."

Fergus - September 5th 2003
/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\

[Nak]

WOOPS! Wrong place, sorry I'll repost! I wonder where it went :-o

Nick.

--
/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\
"No matter. Whatever the outcome, you are changed."

Fergus - September 5th 2003
/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\

[Nak]

Hi there,

Sorry, I have misposted this, and reposted again. I mean't to start a
new thread, my appologies.

If such a thing were used in this country it would not be privacy invasion. If however, this 'mechanism' 'published' information that it should not to
persons that it should not then it would be in breach of the Privacy Act.
I agree, I wasn't wanting to publish the information, the whole point is
that the developer can monitor piracy by locating "rogue" licenses available
on the internet. Then they could see where the license came from, and who
was responsible, it was just an idea, I'm not sure how valid that would be.
Holding information itself is not a breach. However, publishing such
information when one is constrained by legislation, regulation or promise is a breach.
ACK.
From my point of view, aiming at 'as little code as possible' should not be the prime concern. It should take as make code as it needs to make it
function effectively.
Well the reason I say this is at the moment it is not easy to protect
your .NET apps. and it can seem very daunting. I want this to enable people
to make 30 day trials etc with as little hastle as possible.

Again sorry for the mispost everyone :-(

Nick.

--
/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\
"No matter. Whatever the outcome, you are changed."

Fergus - September 5th 2003
/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\
"Stephany Young" <st******@sysoft.co.nz> wrote in message
news:OJ**************@TK2MSFTNGP11.phx.gbl...

--
Stephany Young
MVP (Cooking, Cleaning, Laundry, Gardening, Decryption of Husband-Speak and Teenager-Speak)
"Nak" <[e-mail]> wrote in message
news:Ou*************@tk2msftngp13.phx.gbl...

Hi people,

I'm having a bit of a brain storm at the minute and wouldn't mind some personal opinions on some things.

To license my applications I have decided to make a license manager
service that holds application license files (RSA encrypted). When the
application launches the license manager is consulted as to whether the
application is *allowed* to run or not. The license file for that
particular application is held by the license manager which decrypts it

and

responds as necessary.

Now what I wanted to do was make the license file simply an XML file
that contains some information, but it's what information it *should*
contain is what my main concern is, for example...

Obligatory information,

* Name
* Company

"Is this a 'Privacy invasion" information?"

* Contact details
* System information (To prevent the application from being used on

more

than 1 system).

Hmmm, any ideas on this?

BTW, this is something that I may want to release for free, so some of you may be interested in this, I'm certainly interested in making my
applications more secure with as little code as possible are you?

Nick.

--

/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\

"No matter. Whatever the outcome, you are changed."

Fergus - September 5th 2003

/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\

[Stephany Young]

If such a thing were used in this country it would not be privacy invasion.
If however, this 'mechanism' 'published' information that it should not to
persons that it should not then it would be in breach of the Privacy Act.

Holding information itself is not a breach. However, publishing such
information when one is constrained by legislation, regulation or promise is
a breach.

From my point of view, aiming at 'as little code as possible' should not be
the prime concern. It should take as make code as it needs to make it
function effectively.

--
Stephany Young
MVP (Cooking, Cleaning, Laundry, Gardening, Decryption of Husband-Speak and
Teenager-Speak)
"Nak" <[e-mail]> wrote in message
news:Ou*************@tk2msftngp13.phx.gbl...

Hi people,

I'm having a bit of a brain storm at the minute and wouldn't mind some
personal opinions on some things.

To license my applications I have decided to make a license manager
service that holds application license files (RSA encrypted). When the
application launches the license manager is consulted as to whether the
application is *allowed* to run or not. The license file for that
particular application is held by the license manager which decrypts it and responds as necessary.

Now what I wanted to do was make the license file simply an XML file
that contains some information, but it's what information it *should*
contain is what my main concern is, for example...

Obligatory information,

* Name
* Company

"Is this a 'Privacy invasion" information?"

* Contact details
* System information (To prevent the application from being used on more than 1 system).

Hmmm, any ideas on this?

BTW, this is something that I may want to release for free, so some of
you may be interested in this, I'm certainly interested in making my
applications more secure with as little code as possible are you?

Nick.

--
/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\ "No matter. Whatever the outcome, you are changed."

Fergus - September 5th 2003
/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\

[Nak]

WOOPS! Wrong place, sorry I'll repost! I wonder where it went :-o

Nick.

--
/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\
"No matter. Whatever the outcome, you are changed."

Fergus - September 5th 2003
/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\

[Nak]

Hi there,

Sorry, I have misposted this, and reposted again. I mean't to start a
new thread, my appologies.

If such a thing were used in this country it would not be privacy invasion. If however, this 'mechanism' 'published' information that it should not to
persons that it should not then it would be in breach of the Privacy Act.
I agree, I wasn't wanting to publish the information, the whole point is
that the developer can monitor piracy by locating "rogue" licenses available
on the internet. Then they could see where the license came from, and who
was responsible, it was just an idea, I'm not sure how valid that would be.
Holding information itself is not a breach. However, publishing such
information when one is constrained by legislation, regulation or promise is a breach.
ACK.
From my point of view, aiming at 'as little code as possible' should not be the prime concern. It should take as make code as it needs to make it
function effectively.
Well the reason I say this is at the moment it is not easy to protect
your .NET apps. and it can seem very daunting. I want this to enable people
to make 30 day trials etc with as little hastle as possible.

Again sorry for the mispost everyone :-(

Nick.

--
/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\
"No matter. Whatever the outcome, you are changed."

Fergus - September 5th 2003
/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\
"Stephany Young" <st******@sysoft.co.nz> wrote in message
news:OJ**************@TK2MSFTNGP11.phx.gbl...

--
Stephany Young
MVP (Cooking, Cleaning, Laundry, Gardening, Decryption of Husband-Speak and Teenager-Speak)
"Nak" <[e-mail]> wrote in message
news:Ou*************@tk2msftngp13.phx.gbl...

Hi people,

I'm having a bit of a brain storm at the minute and wouldn't mind some personal opinions on some things.

To license my applications I have decided to make a license manager
service that holds application license files (RSA encrypted). When the
application launches the license manager is consulted as to whether the
application is *allowed* to run or not. The license file for that
particular application is held by the license manager which decrypts it

and

responds as necessary.

Now what I wanted to do was make the license file simply an XML file
that contains some information, but it's what information it *should*
contain is what my main concern is, for example...

Obligatory information,

* Name
* Company

"Is this a 'Privacy invasion" information?"

* Contact details
* System information (To prevent the application from being used on

more

than 1 system).

Hmmm, any ideas on this?

BTW, this is something that I may want to release for free, so some of you may be interested in this, I'm certainly interested in making my
applications more secure with as little code as possible are you?

Nick.

--

/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\

"No matter. Whatever the outcome, you are changed."

Fergus - September 5th 2003

/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\

[Mark Pearce]

Hi Nick,

The type of "private secret" scheme that you propose isn't even trivially
secure - it would take mere minutes to break. Why go to the effort when it's
so easy to crack? And who would want to use a scheme that's so easy to
crack?

If you want to do this properly, you could try writing your own version of
something like this - but be warned, it's not trivial.
http://www.desaware.com/DlsL2.htm

HTH,

Mark
--
Author of "Comprehensive VB .NET Debugging"
http://www.apress.com/book/bookDisplay.html?bID=128
"Nak" <[e-mail]> wrote in message
news:Ou*************@tk2msftngp13.phx.gbl...
Hi people,

I'm having a bit of a brain storm at the minute and wouldn't mind some
personal opinions on some things.

To license my applications I have decided to make a license manager
service that holds application license files (RSA encrypted). When the
application launches the license manager is consulted as to whether the
application is *allowed* to run or not. The license file for that
particular application is held by the license manager which decrypts it and
responds as necessary.

Now what I wanted to do was make the license file simply an XML file
that contains some information, but it's what information it *should*
contain is what my main concern is, for example...

Obligatory information,

* Name
* Company

"Is this a 'Privacy invasion" information?"

* Contact details
* System information (To prevent the application from being used on more
than 1 system).

Hmmm, any ideas on this?

BTW, this is something that I may want to release for free, so some of
you may be interested in this, I'm certainly interested in making my
applications more secure with as little code as possible are you?

Nick.

--
/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\
"No matter. Whatever the outcome, you are changed."

Fergus - September 5th 2003
/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\

[Nak]

Hi Mark,

Thanks for the link, I shall check it out. I wasn't under the
impression that my method was insecure as I was wanting the license files to
be RSA encrypted and have data that would lock it to the system upon
purchase, RSA can't be cracked by someone on their nintendo game system, can
it?

I shall check out the information though anyway, I have been writing up
quite allot of ideas as this seems like a good idea to get this one out of
the way, and if it was done properly I would have more piece of mind when
releasing my software. I don't want to use some crappy username and serial
number scheme, because I know within a few weeks there will be a key
generator out.

I think RSA is definitely the key but at the end of the day to prevent a
license from being used any other way than intended; it would require
constants from the destination machine, and constants on a system are not
easy to come by. Hmmm..

Nick.

--
/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\
"No matter. Whatever the outcome, you are changed."

Fergus - September 5th 2003
/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\

[Mark Pearce]

Hi Nick,

The strength of the encryption isn't the issue here - as you say, RSA is
fine. The problem is how to keep secure the key that you're using to decrypt
the data. The only really secure way to do this is via some sort of
activation scheme involving a remote server.

Regards,

Mark
--
Author of "Comprehensive VB .NET Debugging"
http://www.apress.com/book/bookDisplay.html?bID=128
"Nak" <[e-mail]> wrote in message
news:u2**************@TK2MSFTNGP11.phx.gbl...
Hi Mark,

Thanks for the link, I shall check it out. I wasn't under the
impression that my method was insecure as I was wanting the license files to
be RSA encrypted and have data that would lock it to the system upon
purchase, RSA can't be cracked by someone on their nintendo game system, can
it?

I shall check out the information though anyway, I have been writing up
quite allot of ideas as this seems like a good idea to get this one out of
the way, and if it was done properly I would have more piece of mind when
releasing my software. I don't want to use some crappy username and serial
number scheme, because I know within a few weeks there will be a key
generator out.

I think RSA is definitely the key but at the end of the day to prevent a
license from being used any other way than intended; it would require
constants from the destination machine, and constants on a system are not
easy to come by. Hmmm..

Nick.

--
/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\
"No matter. Whatever the outcome, you are changed."

Fergus - September 5th 2003
/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\