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Microsoft doesn't want you to use VB .Net


I am coming to the conclusion that Microsoft doesn't want you to use VB
..Net, based on my experiences. I've downloaded the Express version and
signed up for various support options etc. At every turn I have found the
whole experience frustrating, involving endless non functioning software,
broken links, incomprehensibl e and irrelevant information, examples that
don't work, help files that don't help and a complete lack of any sort of
reasonable support.

I see no benefit in trying to carry on with this effort, and intend to
reload VB 6.0 and use that instead. At least it works (mostly) and makes
sense.

H
Dec 26 '05 #1
89 3868
VB.Net 2003 works fine and I'm sure VB.Net 2005 will also "eventually ".
Programming in VB 6.0 will probably result in a lot of problems down the road
as I'm sure M'soft will not support it much longer.

Also, you might be more satisfied with the Standard or Pro versions of VB.Net.
--
Dennis in Houston
"Homer J Simpson" wrote:

I am coming to the conclusion that Microsoft doesn't want you to use VB
..Net, based on my experiences. I've downloaded the Express version and
signed up for various support options etc. At every turn I have found the
whole experience frustrating, involving endless non functioning software,
broken links, incomprehensibl e and irrelevant information, examples that
don't work, help files that don't help and a complete lack of any sort of
reasonable support.

I see no benefit in trying to carry on with this effort, and intend to
reload VB 6.0 and use that instead. At least it works (mostly) and makes
sense.

H

Dec 26 '05 #2
If I had a megaphone, I might say: "step away from the computer" and have
you take a break, then think about what vb.net is and why youre frustrated
with it.

vb.net is object oriented. its powerful. its a revolution in computer
science.

it takes hard work to shift from VB6 to vb.net so realize that all of us
who catch up, had to work hard. Ive programmed with it, learned the hard
way, and after x years of software engineering had to take 2 college
semester courses in vb.net just to be able to start using it right. I
started the 'basic' series in qbasic, and jumped in with VB4 then 5, 6 and
was struggling to grasp .net in 2002. its still a learning curve.

There is no "non functioning software" vb.net is a revolution in computer
science. You have to think like Java and C++. vb.net is advanced and its
hard to learn, it takes time.

It reminds me of people who fixed vacuum tube tv sets, then the new
transistor sets came out? some couldnt grasp transistors and stayed with
tube only. In cars, some people couldnt learn smog controls, oh those are
so stupid, all the hoses and wires, why bother.

"Homer J Simpson" <no****@nowhere .com> wrote in message
news:fPYrf.1267 7$AP5.3104@edtn ps84...

I am coming to the conclusion that Microsoft doesn't want you to use VB
.Net, based on my experiences. I've downloaded the Express version and
signed up for various support options etc. At every turn I have found the
whole experience frustrating, involving endless non functioning software,
broken links, incomprehensibl e and irrelevant information, examples that
don't work, help files that don't help and a complete lack of any sort of
reasonable support.

I see no benefit in trying to carry on with this effort, and intend to
reload VB 6.0 and use that instead. At least it works (mostly) and makes
sense.

H

Dec 26 '05 #3

"Brad Rogers" <br************ *@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:4PZrf.6025 $x%2.2604@trndd c06...
If I had a megaphone, I might say: "step away from the computer" and have
you take a break, then think about what vb.net is and why youre frustrated
with it.

vb.net is object oriented. its powerful. its a revolution in computer
science.

it takes hard work to shift from VB6 to vb.net


That's not my complaint. My complaint is that the whole procedure of trying
to upgrade has been frustrated by stunningly inept efforts on the part of
Microsoft to provide support for such migration. I doubt that they have ever
actually tried to step through the process themselves or had a test group
try to do this while someone took notes. It's a sloppy disorganized mess,
and those involved should be ashamed.

Dec 26 '05 #4
Do you mean upgrade your existing VB6 code into .net?

I really dont see the problem, you must re-write the majority of the
application in .net using OO priniples. What upgrade?

And Im told there is talk of a new version of VB to support the old VB6
users who dont want to migrate to OOP. (or are not able to grasp it)

I had to transition and have others also transition, its the cost of doing
business, but can you give an example(s) of something thats not being done
right? Its very possible I missed what youre describing

That's not my complaint. My complaint is that the whole procedure of trying to upgrade has been frustrated by stunningly inept efforts on the part of
Microsoft to provide support for such migration. I doubt that they have ever actually tried to step through the process themselves or had a test group
try to do this while someone took notes. It's a sloppy disorganized mess,
and those involved should be ashamed.

Dec 26 '05 #5

"Brad Rogers" <br************ *@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:V%_rf.9331 $x%2.3240@trndd c06...
Do you mean upgrade your existing VB6 code into .net?
No. I'm talking about getting to "Hello World" without finding code that
won't compile, links that are broken, training materials which drift off
into irrelevancy.
I really dont see the problem, you must re-write the majority of the
application in .net using OO priniples. What upgrade?

And Im told there is talk of a new version of VB to support the old VB6
users who dont want to migrate to OOP. (or are not able to grasp it)
I'm quite familiar with OOP -- and CASE for that matter.
I had to transition and have others also transition, its the cost of doing
business, but can you give an example(s) of something thats not being done
right? Its very possible I missed what youre describing


Perhaps you were luckier than me. I'm used to dealing with the odd quirk or
obstacle. This far exceeds that.


Dec 27 '05 #6
Well like I said, I had to take 2 semester courses on vb.net, a language I
was familiar with and developed in for business? and only now am really a
beginner. And I used to work with punched cards... I was upset at the
vb6 to .net change at first, then one day it made sense. I hope that same
joy and fulfillment comes your way soon.

Its been my experience that there are great links and examples, but the ones
with video tutorials are best IMO. If you visit the
http://msdn.microsoft.com/vbasic/ website? You will find the newest
training, for free. Its too awesome.

If you know OO, then vb.net should be a huge relief, easier to code than vb6

The only tech docs that were bad, that Ive found so far, were on the subject
of delegates, but I gave feedback and MSDN responded with some improvements.
Delegates are so hard to learn, there is no training. You have to simply
already understand them and use them. Delegates are so hard to understand
you have to actually create a parallel universe where you already know how
they work. Then the documentation makes sense. Worked for me.

"Homer J Simpson" <no****@nowhere .com> wrote in message
news:bz%rf.1269 7$AP5.9062@edtn ps84...

"Brad Rogers" <br************ *@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:V%_rf.9331 $x%2.3240@trndd c06...
Do you mean upgrade your existing VB6 code into .net?
No. I'm talking about getting to "Hello World" without finding code that
won't compile, links that are broken, training materials which drift off
into irrelevancy.
I really dont see the problem, you must re-write the majority of the
application in .net using OO priniples. What upgrade?

And Im told there is talk of a new version of VB to support the old VB6
users who dont want to migrate to OOP. (or are not able to grasp it)


I'm quite familiar with OOP -- and CASE for that matter.
I had to transition and have others also transition, its the cost of doing business, but can you give an example(s) of something thats not being done right? Its very possible I missed what youre describing


Perhaps you were luckier than me. I'm used to dealing with the odd quirk

or obstacle. This far exceeds that.


Dec 27 '05 #7
Hi...

Like most developers of my generation I had my first contact with
computers with BASIC... some 20 years ago.

When I started coding in BASIC the most powerful systems were developed
using COBOL, Fortran, Algol, etc...

(If you want to know a little bit more about it take a look at my
blog... at http://pjondevelopment.50webs.com/)

Anyway... Back then all you had to do to program in BASIC was pull up a
chair, sit on your computer and (usually) start typing something
like...

2 CLS
10 PRINT "Hello World!"
20 GOTO 10

Hehe... It was easy... :-P

As I grew older BASIC grew up with me... It overcome many obstacles in
its way. It left the ugly spaghetti programing, to become a procedural
language... when you need to type something like:

Sub Main()
While (True)
Print "Hello World!"
Wend
End Sub

Then BASIC became an event-oriented programming (as of Visual Basic 1.0
for DOS -- I still have the Install :-) Where you'd need to type
something like

Sub Button_Click()
MsgBox "Hello World!"
End Sub

And for quite some time it was a event-oriented language... regarded as
a second level language for many C programmers that like their curly
brackets and their ugly syntax.

The difficulty to develop software was ever increasing as the time went
by. Computers got twice as much power every six months... Moore's Law
were obeyed more than Gravity's Law.

BASIC wasn't keeping up with the demands of this new era... Many saw
the end of BASIC as certain as death and taxes...

But then in 2001 Microsoft presented us with VB.NET...

It was not the BASIC everyone knew... yet, it was a familiar ground...
something that we understand... we knew we could Master.

The learning curve was not that steep... but there was a learning
curve. It takes time. We need to learn how to do simple things once
more... but it was good... it was fun...

And that's what everything is about... FUN!

Sure thing... A lot of us code for money... but a great deal more code
because it's FUN! (and if we are paid for doing this... it is even
better :-)

If you code for some time you know what I am talking about...

With VB.NET we need to learn about Classes, Interfaces, Polymorphism,
Overloads, Shadows, Inheritance, etc, etc, etc...

So many new things were thrown so hard at us that many of us had a very
hard time adjusting themselves. But we managed to learn everything we
need to know.

Now... if you want to write that "Hello World" program now with VB.NET
2005, all you have to do is:

Module HelloWorld
Sub Main()
Do While (True)
System.Console. WriteLine("Hell o World!")
Loop
End Sub
End Module

Oh yeah! I forgot to mention... we can build console application again
now too.. :-)

Regards,

PJ

Dec 27 '05 #8

if you want some good guidance and especially if you are a VB6 programmer
moving to VB.Net i would recomend "Programmin g Microsoft Visual Basic .Net "
by Francesco Balena ( Microsoft Press ) this book has it all clear examples
of everything there is to know ( the 2005 versions comes out in middle
january )

maybe you know francesco`s book already from the VB6 world ( programming
Microsoft visual basic 6.0 ) these books are the official core references so
anyone who is serious about programming in VB should have them on his book
shelf
this book wil be a reall money saver as you will discover ( i never followed
courses , and i am working as a pro programmer , the core reference , the
self paced training kit , and a MSDN subscription was enough for me )

regards

Michel Posseth [MCP]


"Homer J Simpson" <no****@nowhere .com> wrote in message
news:bz%rf.1269 7$AP5.9062@edtn ps84...

"Brad Rogers" <br************ *@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:V%_rf.9331 $x%2.3240@trndd c06...
Do you mean upgrade your existing VB6 code into .net?


No. I'm talking about getting to "Hello World" without finding code that
won't compile, links that are broken, training materials which drift off
into irrelevancy.
I really dont see the problem, you must re-write the majority of the
application in .net using OO priniples. What upgrade?

And Im told there is talk of a new version of VB to support the old VB6
users who dont want to migrate to OOP. (or are not able to grasp it)


I'm quite familiar with OOP -- and CASE for that matter.
I had to transition and have others also transition, its the cost of
doing
business, but can you give an example(s) of something thats not being
done
right? Its very possible I missed what youre describing


Perhaps you were luckier than me. I'm used to dealing with the odd quirk
or obstacle. This far exceeds that.


Dec 27 '05 #9

Isn't this discussion 5 years old?

Sounds to me like you are still running an early beta of VS2005.
Otherwise I cannot recognize your problems.

If you can only work with full, F5-able samples, go download
something like
http://lab.msdn.microsoft.com/vs2005...s/default.aspx

If you are serious about development, what are you doing with the
Express editions? If you are spending valuable time learning a new
development tool, wouldn't you rather learn it using the full version
rather than a cut-down one? Otherwise you would have to go through
a lot of the same stuff again when you move to real development tasks.

I am sure that the Express editions are fine for learning basic (pun
intended) programming skills, but I would not expect to be able to
load and run all the samples I could find on the web.

As for VB6: I used VB4-6 for 8 years and loved it. Whatever I hit the
wall, I could usually solve my problems by making calls directly to
the Win32 API. Nowadays, when I open one of my old VB6 projects,
it feels like a toy language and it takes me quite a while to get my
head into VB6 mode in order to do something productive.

But I'll stop now: Seeing that you are posting anonymously in a
group like this, I presume you are just a troll.

/JB

On Mon, 26 Dec 2005 20:57:47 GMT, "Homer J Simpson"
<no****@nowhere .com> wrote:

I am coming to the conclusion that Microsoft doesn't want you to use VB
.Net, based on my experiences. I've downloaded the Express version and
signed up for various support options etc. At every turn I have found the
whole experience frustrating, involving endless non functioning software,
broken links, incomprehensibl e and irrelevant information, examples that
don't work, help files that don't help and a complete lack of any sort of
reasonable support.

I see no benefit in trying to carry on with this effort, and intend to
reload VB 6.0 and use that instead. At least it works (mostly) and makes
sense.

H


Dec 27 '05 #10

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