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Beating a dead Horse: Which Language

Hi,

I know that I'm an extreme newb by asking this overly beaten question,
but I am leaning toward C#, becuase the perception is that it is better
to learn than VB.Net. I guess it makes you cooler.:-)

Anyhow, I am a novice programmer, and I will remain one as well...I have
no plans to make programming my life ambition, but I think that it would
be fun to make my databases do some cool tricks and maybe write a
simplistic client to access the database over the LAN, and by internet
as well. My programing will be centered around Data manipulation, i.e.
collecting, sorting, and reporting on this data to myself.....

I want to know which language you find most compelling to accomplish my
mission. It may be that it doesn't have anything at all to do with the
language, from my understanding they are close to equal, but everyone I
come in contact with prefer C# over VB.net
Please, NO FLAMES; just logic
Thank you in advance!
Nov 21 '05
114 3736
Herfried,

ACK. However, often programming languages live longer than class
libraries... The stronger a programming language is tied to a certain
framework, the harder it will be to migrate the code to a new framework.

In my opinion is this against all what you have written the last months why
VB classic should be kept alive.

Programming language have the same (however quicker) evolution than natural
languages.

Class librarys have in my opinion to be consistent in there behaviour, even
when it is unwanted behaviour which is not a bug. This to fulfil what you
have written the last months.

Just my 2 eurocents.

Cor
Nov 21 '05 #41
"Herfried K. Wagner [MVP]" <hi************ ***@gmx.at> escribió en el mensaje
news:%2******** ********@TK2MSF TNGP14.phx.gbl. ..
Consider VB's intrinsic functions -- some of these functions exist (with
slight adaptions) since early versions of BASIC and can still be used. I
see these functions as meta-framework which abstracts from the framework
currently used, and thus prefer these functions over corresponding
functionality which is part of the .NET Framework Class Library.


Interesting, although my view is the opposite: I prefer to use the functions
of the .NET Framework instead of the ones of the early Basic, since the code
is very tied to the .NET Framework anyway. Using the functions of the
framework makes it more easy to migrate to, say C#, or even Java (which uses
a different framework), IMHO.

--
Best regards,

Carlos J. Quintero

MZ-Tools: Productivity add-ins for Visual Studio .NET, VB6, VB5 and VBA
You can code, design and document much faster.
Free resources for add-in developers:
http://www.mztools.com
Nov 21 '05 #42
"Cor Ligthert" <no************ @planet.nl> schrieb:
ACK. However, often programming languages live longer than class
libraries... The stronger a programming language is tied to a certain
framework, the harder it will be to migrate the code to a new framework.

In my opinion is this against all what you have written the last months
why VB classic should be kept alive.


The main problem with the Classic VB/VB.NET issue is that the languages are
not code-compatible although they could have been designed to be. That's
another topic which has been discussed several times in newsgroups. Despite
this incompatibility the VB.NET runtime library provides functionality which
is almost compatible with the corresponding functions of earlier BASIC
dialects, which means that some of the knowledge can be reused and code can
theoretically be reused if there were no breaking changes to the syntax like
the loss of support for arbitrary lower bounds of arrays etc.

--
M S Herfried K. Wagner
M V P <URL:http://dotnet.mvps.org/>
V B <URL:http://classicvb.org/petition/>

Nov 21 '05 #43
"Cor Ligthert" <no************ @planet.nl> ha scritto nel messaggio
news:%2******** ********@TK2MSF TNGP12.phx.gbl. ..
A nested procedure 6 deep with only {} do I find already almost a crime.


A nested procedure with six depth levels is a crime anyway :-)


You wrote that you never tried VBNet. You should try that, you would not
believe your eyes when you see how nice that is arranged by the IDE and
how good readable your programs become by nesting something even 10 or 12
(or more) deep.


I'm not talking about aesthetics here, but about docing; when you've a
procedure with *so much* code and flow control inside, probably it's time to
split it into more smaller ones.

Massimo

Nov 21 '05 #44
"Massimo"
I'm not talking about aesthetics here, but about docing; when you've a
procedure with *so much* code and flow control inside, probably it's time
to split it into more smaller ones.

Did you try VBNet. I agree completly with you when it are C derived
languages.

As I said, try it, and than tell your expirience after that. Now your answer
looks for me like somebody who tells that he/she never played footbal (there
was something else before), however talks about if he/she is an expert in
it.

Cor
Nov 21 '05 #45
"Massimo" <ba****@mclink. it> schrieb:
A nested procedure 6 deep with only {} do I find already almost a
crime.

A nested procedure with six depth levels is a crime anyway :-)


You wrote that you never tried VBNet. You should try that, you would not
believe your eyes when you see how nice that is arranged by the IDE and
how good readable your programs become by nesting something even 10 or 12
(or more) deep.


I'm not talking about aesthetics here, but about docing; when you've a
procedure with *so much* code and flow control inside, probably it's time
to split it into more smaller ones.


The problem are not only blocks inside methods. Imagine an explicit
namespace definition with class definitions, nested classes, properties and
only a single additional 'if' block inside the property's getter. This
leads to six closing brackets. When implementing a complex algorithm it
gets even worse (up to ten nesting levels in total).

\\\
namespace Foo
{
public class Goo
{
public class Bar
{
public string Name
{
get
{
if (...)
{
...
}
}
}
}
}
}
///

--
M S Herfried K. Wagner
M V P <URL:http://dotnet.mvps.org/>
V B <URL:http://classicvb.org/petition/>

Nov 21 '05 #46
Andrew Faust wrote:
"Carlos J. Quintero [.NET MVP]" wrote:
I agree on this. Languages are only a thin "layer" to learn on top
of the ..NET Framework beast.


I'd go it a step farther and say that programming languages are only
a thin layer on top of programming concepts. Once you get proficient
at the underlying logic of writing code, it becomes merely a matter
of a few days to learn syntax and some good reference books to become
functional in a new language.


There are a few exceptions to this.

For example, languages like Prolog, F#, LISP change some of the fundamental
nature of the way you think about what the code is and does. C++, for
example, encapsulates several different ways to code at once, which makes
reading it challenging at times.

But, certainly, within the confines of a particular paradigm (object
oriented/event driven/etc.) translating from one language to another is
quite simple.

--
Reginald Blue
"I have always wished that my computer would be as easy to use as my
telephone. My wish has come true. I no longer know how to use my
telephone."
- Bjarne Stroustrup (originator of C++) [quoted at the 2003
International Conference on Intelligent User Interfaces]
Nov 21 '05 #47
Cor Ligthert <no************ @planet.nl> wrote:
"Massimo"
I'm not talking about aesthetics here, but about docing; when you've a
procedure with *so much* code and flow control inside, probably it's time
to split it into more smaller ones.

Did you try VBNet. I agree completly with you when it are C derived
languages.

As I said, try it, and than tell your expirience after that. Now your answer
looks for me like somebody who tells that he/she never played footbal (there
was something else before), however talks about if he/she is an expert in
it.


What about VB makes it "okay" in your view to have such deeply nested
functionality that would be abhorrent in C#? If it's that you have "End
If" "End For" etc then there's absolutely nothing to stop you from
commenting your C# in the same way:

for (...)
{
if (...)
{
...
} // If
} // For

Personally I don't like it or feel any need for it, but there's nothing
stopping you from doing it if you feel it adds readability.

--
Jon Skeet - <sk***@pobox.co m>
http://www.pobox.com/~skeet
If replying to the group, please do not mail me too
Nov 21 '05 #48
Jon,
What about VB makes it "okay" in your view to have such deeply nested
functionality that would be abhorrent in C#? If it's that you have "End
If" "End For" etc then there's absolutely nothing to stop you from
commenting your C# in the same way:

for (...)
{
if (...)
{
...
} // If
} // For

Personally I don't like it or feel any need for it, but there's nothing
stopping you from doing it if you feel it adds readability.


I agree with you and probably will use in future your sample, which I to be
honest never thought of, however the difference is that it is at the moment
not automaticly done and as well not automaticly alligned direct when you
are busy.

However thanks for the idea

Cor
Nov 21 '05 #49
Jon,

"Jon Skeet [C# MVP]" <sk***@pobox.co m> schrieb:
What about VB makes it "okay" in your view to have such deeply nested
functionality that would be abhorrent in C#? If it's that you have "End
If" "End For" etc then there's absolutely nothing to stop you from
It's actually 'Next', not 'End For' :-).
for (...)
{
if (...)
{
...
} // If
} // For

Personally I don't like it or feel any need for it, but there's nothing
stopping you from doing it if you feel it adds readability.


The main problem with these comments (which are mandatory in some companies)
is maintainability . It's hard to keep those comments in sync with the
actual block types. VB.NET will automatically check the end statements.

Just my 2 Euro cents...

--
M S Herfried K. Wagner
M V P <URL:http://dotnet.mvps.org/>
V B <URL:http://classicvb.org/petition/>

Nov 21 '05 #50

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