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Beating a dead Horse: Which Language

Hi,

I know that I'm an extreme newb by asking this overly beaten question,
but I am leaning toward C#, becuase the perception is that it is better
to learn than VB.Net. I guess it makes you cooler.:-)

Anyhow, I am a novice programmer, and I will remain one as well...I have
no plans to make programming my life ambition, but I think that it would
be fun to make my databases do some cool tricks and maybe write a
simplistic client to access the database over the LAN, and by internet
as well. My programing will be centered around Data manipulation, i.e.
collecting, sorting, and reporting on this data to myself.....

I want to know which language you find most compelling to accomplish my
mission. It may be that it doesn't have anything at all to do with the
language, from my understanding they are close to equal, but everyone I
come in contact with prefer C# over VB.net
Please, NO FLAMES; just logic
Thank you in advance!
Nov 21 '05
114 3736
"Carlos J. Quintero [.NET MVP]" <ca*****@NOSPAM sogecable.com> schrieb:
Yes, yes, I know, although my impression is that nobody uses the term
"Visual C#"...


ACK! And /really nobody/ uses the plain term "Basic" when talking about
Visual Basic .NET, except Microsoft in the VS.NET IDE properties dialog ;-).

--
M S Herfried K. Wagner
M V P <URL:http://dotnet.mvps.org/>
V B <URL:http://classicvb.org/petition/>

Nov 21 '05 #31
The programming language that's best for you is a function of where you come
from. As Morten so clearly said, if you come from the OO-style languages C#
will be more comfortable but there's also Managed C++ for those folks and J#
as well. VB.NET was originally designed to help VB6 developers transition to
..NET. That's because at the time almost 80% of developers used VB6. It has
evolved over time (and is still evolving) to help developer productivity.
You'll find more differences in the Visual Studio.NET IDE than anywhere
else. In the current versions (and more so in older versions) C# required
you to constantly rebuild your project to resolve addressing. C# is always
going to be case sensitive (which is a royal PITA) and pretty anal. Newer
versions of C# have included on-the-fly compilation (finally) and
edit-and-continue (unless they dropped it again)--but so does VB.NET (which
always did on-the-fly compilation). VB.NET also has a new "My" namespace to
vastly simplify some of the more convoluted framework references. But again,
they build virtually identical IL.

--
_______________ _______________ ______
William (Bill) Vaughn
Author, Mentor, Consultant
Microsoft MVP
www.betav.com/blog/billva
www.betav.com
Please reply only to the newsgroup so that others can benefit.
This posting is provided "AS IS" with no warranties, and confers no rights.
_______________ _______________ ____

"Morten Wennevik" <Mo************ @hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:op.ss2hf2v zklbvpo@stone.. .
Hi,

Seeing as noone seems to have touched the issues I find important ...

If you have no background in C/C++/Java or similar you may find VB.NET
easier to understand simply because it has less symbols and more logical
words. If you have dabbled in C/C++/Java or similar you may find C# to be
easier to do.

There are no real performance differences between C# and VB.NET. With a
few minor exceptions they are each capable of doing the same things.

As Malik said, what takes time is learning to know the framework, which is
identical for all .NET languages. If you read the questions in these
groups you will find that the answers in many cases are language
independent, valid for both C# and VB.NET. And in those cases that it is
language dependent, translating it to the other language is a simple task.

Go with what you prefer, either is fine.
--
Happy coding!
Morten Wennevik [C# MVP]

Nov 21 '05 #32
Yes, sure it is. Go back to your piano and let us get some work done.

--
_______________ _______________ ______
William (Bill) Vaughn
Author, Mentor, Consultant
Microsoft MVP
www.betav.com/blog/billva
www.betav.com
Please reply only to the newsgroup so that others can benefit.
This posting is provided "AS IS" with no warranties, and confers no rights.
_______________ _______________ ____

"Mark Rae" <ma**@mark-N-O-S-P-A-M-rae.co.uk> wrote in message
news:eb******** ******@tk2msftn gp13.phx.gbl...
"WJ" <Jo*******@HotM ail.Com> wrote in message
news:O1******** ******@TK2MSFTN GP10.phx.gbl...
Correction needed: In .Net, c-sharp is written as c#, not C#. C# is a
musical symbol, it denotes Do Major (in Italian), in English, it is a C
Major !


No it isn't - C# is the black note between C natural and D natural.

Nov 21 '05 #33
"Cor Ligthert" <no************ @planet.nl> ha scritto nel messaggio
news:eo******** ******@tk2msftn gp13.phx.gbl...
A nested procedure 6 deep with only {} do I find already almost a crime.


A nested procedure with six depth levels is a crime anyway :-)

Massimo

Nov 21 '05 #34
cf***********@y ahoo.com wrote:
Anyhow, I am a novice programmer, and I will remain one as well...I
have no plans to make programming my life ambition, but I think that
it would be fun to make my databases do some cool tricks and maybe
write a simplistic client to access the database over the LAN, and by
internet as well. My programing will be centered around Data
manipulation, i.e. collecting, sorting, and reporting on this data to
myself.....

I want to know which language you find most compelling to accomplish
my mission. It may be that it doesn't have anything at all to do with
the language, from my understanding they are close to equal, but
everyone I come in contact with prefer C# over VB.net


The one thing that hasn't been mentioned, that I saw, is the direction that
Microsoft is pushing the languages towards in 2.0. The last time I went to
a presentation on this, which was a while ago, each language had been given
a particular focus.

The focus for VB.Net in 2.0 was to be the rapid application development
platform. They include the My.* heirarchy to allow for quick access to
various items... basically instant help. I believe that it also had
slightly better support, in the development UI, for developing forms, but I
could be misremembering.

The focus for C# was on back end business processing. As such it came with
facilities for assisting coding with standard Gang of Four patterns and the
ability to refactor code quite easily.

The focus for Managed C++ was for 'down and dirty' close to the framework,
fast as possible, type work.

Based on what you've said above, sounds like C# in 2.0 is better suited for
your likes and dislikes. But that's just a guess. And my recollection of
things may be off, as well as things may have changed.

--
Reginald Blue
"I have always wished that my computer would be as easy to use as my
telephone. My wish has come true. I no longer know how to use my
telephone."
- Bjarne Stroustrup (originator of C++) [quoted at the 2003
International Conference on Intelligent User Interfaces]
Nov 21 '05 #35

"Massimo"
A nested procedure 6 deep with only {} do I find already almost a crime.


A nested procedure with six depth levels is a crime anyway :-)

You wrote that you never tried VBNet. You should try that, you would not
believe your eyes when you see how nice that is arranged by the IDE and how
good readable your programs become by nesting something even 10 or 12 (or
more) deep.

Just my thougth

Cor
Nov 21 '05 #36
All .Net languages are very similar because they ultimately produce the same
intermediate language and use the same application services. I have only
heard of (never experienced myself) a handful of capabilities in one that
doesn't exist in the other. That being said, each language is syntactically
different and has SUBTLE nuances that would be more appropriate to one
application or another. So if you really want to split hairs that is the
place to look.

You also may want to consider the possibility of if you will ever have to
look at legacy code. You might want the syntax you are familiar with to be
similar to what you are likely to encounter. Is it more likely to be C/C++
or VB?

Most serious commercial software and operating systems are written in C /
C++ with a little assembler thrown in. Other proprietary software written
for business and engineering has been written in dozens of languages,
PASCAL, FORTRAN, COBOL, ADA, SMALL TALK, POWER BUILDER, DELPHI, to name a
few. Most Microsoft applications and technologies that provide for scripting
support VBA (Visual Basic for Applications) a form of VB.

When it comes down to it all languages let you do the same thing, create and
access data structures and control the flow of logic. It will boil down to a
personal preference. For me C / C++ has always been the coolest thing
around. C# is a natural extension of this. It brings a lot of the niceties
of the higher level language to the syntax that is familiar to me. I think
also C# is the favored language of those who created .Net which is always
something to consider. The older you get the harder it is to be cool. You
might as well get it while you can.

<cf***********@ yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:zZ******** ********@bignew s3.bellsouth.ne t...
Hi,

I know that I'm an extreme newb by asking this overly beaten question,
but I am leaning toward C#, becuase the perception is that it is better
to learn than VB.Net. I guess it makes you cooler.:-)

Anyhow, I am a novice programmer, and I will remain one as well...I have
no plans to make programming my life ambition, but I think that it would
be fun to make my databases do some cool tricks and maybe write a
simplistic client to access the database over the LAN, and by internet
as well. My programing will be centered around Data manipulation, i.e.
collecting, sorting, and reporting on this data to myself.....

I want to know which language you find most compelling to accomplish my
mission. It may be that it doesn't have anything at all to do with the
language, from my understanding they are close to equal, but everyone I
come in contact with prefer C# over VB.net
Please, NO FLAMES; just logic
Thank you in advance!

Nov 21 '05 #37
"Carlos J. Quintero [.NET MVP]" wrote:
I agree on this. Languages are only a thin "layer" to learn on top of the
..NET Framework beast.


I'd go it a step farther and say that programming languages are only a thin
layer on top of programming concepts. Once you get proficient at the
underlying logic of writing code, it becomes merely a matter of a few days to
learn syntax and some good reference books to become functional in a new
language.
Nov 21 '05 #38
I tend to agree with that too, but modern languages (products?) come with
huge frameworks (class libraries) that you need to master too to avoid
reinventing the wheel while programming, so, yes, programming concepts
(structured, object-oriented) are important but class libraries too. So,
finally the syntax is almost irrelevant...

--
Best regards,

Carlos J. Quintero

MZ-Tools: Productivity add-ins for Visual Studio .NET, VB6, VB5 and VBA
You can code, design and document much faster.
Free resources for add-in developers:
http://www.mztools.com

"Andrew Faust" <af****@nospam. nospam> escribió en el mensaje
news:AC******** *************** ***********@mic rosoft.com...
"Carlos J. Quintero [.NET MVP]" wrote:
I'd go it a step farther and say that programming languages are only a
thin
layer on top of programming concepts. Once you get proficient at the
underlying logic of writing code, it becomes merely a matter of a few days
to
learn syntax and some good reference books to become functional in a new
language.

Nov 21 '05 #39
"Carlos J. Quintero [.NET MVP]" <ca*****@NOSPAM sogecable.com> schrieb:
I tend to agree with that too, but modern languages (products?) come with
huge frameworks (class libraries) that you need to master too to avoid
reinventing the wheel while programming, so, yes, programming concepts
(structured, object-oriented) are important but class libraries too. So,
finally the syntax is almost irrelevant...


ACK. However, often programming languages live longer than class
libraries... The stronger a programming language is tied to a certain
framework, the harder it will be to migrate the code to a new framework.

Consider VB's intrinsic functions -- some of these functions exist (with
slight adaptions) since early versions of BASIC and can still be used. I
see these functions as meta-framework which abstracts from the framework
currently used, and thus prefer these functions over corresponding
functionality which is part of the .NET Framework Class Library.

The implication from that is that I believe that programming languages
(syntax and meta-frameworks) are more than "sugar".

Just my two Euro cents...

--
M S Herfried K. Wagner
M V P <URL:http://dotnet.mvps.org/>
V B <URL:http://classicvb.org/petition/>

Nov 21 '05 #40

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