What's your compensation for carrying a pager???

[Richard]

My employer currently pays me $1/hour when I carry a pager. I have to
carry the pager every fourth week. The problem is that my employer
insists that I be available when I'm carrying the pager. So, for $1/hr
they expect me to remain within pager range, remain sober, and be
available to come to work. That really sucks on weekends. No going
to the beach (out of pager range) or out to a friend's cottage (out of pager
range), etc. Declining to carry the pager is NOT an option.

I'm curious what compensation others get and more importantly, what's
your employers expectation of your availability when you're on-call?

Thanks.

[Darin McBride]

Stanley Sinclair wrote:

This thread overwhelms me. People seem to be asking the wrong
question.
That all depends on perspective, I suppose. I think the original
post was really actually asking about pagers, although you bring up a
not-entirely-orthogonal philospohical question.
The question is, "Are you a professional or not?"
I highly suspect that even this is not the question you want to ask.
This question highly depends on culture. What is "professional" to you
in a highly-competitive highly-capitalist country may not be the same
in more socialist countries.
If yes, then you are renting your professional knowledge/skills. You
are not renting your time. If you are an MBA renting your skills as a
Whether renting knowledge/skills or time probably depends on your
contract. Which was the OP's question - according to various
employee's contracts, how much is that individual being paid to carry a
pager.
trash evacuator, you are paid by the hour; if you are renting your
skills as a people-manager, then you are paid to execute the tasks of
your position. The former gets overtime, the latter does not, even if
it takes 24/7 to do the job. Perhaps job descriptions are not clear enough. Recent definitions re
labor standards stratify the workforce by salary: Under $23,500,
madatory overtime; over $65,000; no overtime unless contracted
otherwise; between, depends on the contract.
Sounds like the difference is < $23,500 and > $23,500, since you said
"depends on contract" for both $23,500-$65,000 and $65,001+. That
leaves a lot of room for discussion and negotiation with your employer.

Funny thing is, it's entirely a capitalist ideal for an employee (the
"seller" of knowledge/skills) to negotiate for the best rate for his or
her knowledge/skills that they can, and that can include bonus money
for working outside of negotiated hours, carrying a pager, etc.. And
then, some employers will simply offer that extra money as an incentive
to get the most qualified applicants to apply for their positions
(called "putting to tender" in some circles).

You've made quite a distinction by using the word "renting" instead of
simply "using". You seem to be implying a very capitalist outlook on
the world, and that's quite fine by me. I like to think of myself as
capitalist as well. But, in the same way that you probably think
highly of entrepreneurs who beat out their competition by offering the
best bang for a buck, or for their customers who pay premiums for
better service, you should look at the employer/employee relationship
and think highly of employees who manage to get extra perks, pay,
benefits, etc., as premiums that they have negotiated for. I see no
difference.
I won't bore anyone with my personal reasons. I am a physician (MD in
practice), an MBA (consultant in practice), and an active database
programmer. For details about why I feel as I do, write me privately.
(In 35 years of medical practice, I have never received a cent for
being on call 24/7/365. On the toilet, during sex, at my parent's
funeral, nor any other time.)

You need to hire a better negotiator. ;-) You're probably
self-employed, so you've got some limitations on what you can do.
Otherwise, principles about what should be enacted by law (is it
legally mandatory to pay someone to carry a pager?), if you believe
strongly that it shouldn't be legally required, should have absolutely
no bearing on what people manage to negotiate with their employers.

[Stanley Sinclair]

Indeed, Jim we can agree to disagree. However, in reading your
response, we have agreed completely!

<<It is unreasonable to be on call 7/24/365. For people to function
effectively they do need some "time off". . . >>

Yes. But it is the responsibilty of the Professional to find another
equally skilled Professional to cover him/her for the time off.

In reading the rest of your response, you agree completely that
everything depends on accurate disclosure and inclusion of all details
in an employment contract.

This is as much the responsibilty of the employee as the employer.

(And what about the self-employed?)

Stan

[Victor Reed]

No doubts, it is the responsibility of the employee as the employer ..
Many times, the contracts are in such a manner that an employee may
not fully understand the implications ... In my previous job, in the
interview I was told that I'll be on-call(no compensation) in a rota
.... There were six people, so my cover was once in six weeks ... In a
few months time, just two of us were expected to do the job of all 6
(4 laid off on the same day) ... So lots of work during the day and
on-call once in two weeks ... When we requested for a compensation we
were bluntly told 'No such thing in your contract!!' ... I left the
job next month ..

A self-employed has to take professsional advice before signing
contracts, to avoid traps
Cheers
victor


st*************@bellsouth.net (Stanley Sinclair) wrote in message news:<6f**************************@posting.google. com>...

Indeed, Jim we can agree to disagree. However, in reading your
response, we have agreed completely!

<<It is unreasonable to be on call 7/24/365. For people to function
effectively they do need some "time off". . . >>

Yes. But it is the responsibilty of the Professional to find another
equally skilled Professional to cover him/her for the time off.

In reading the rest of your response, you agree completely that
everything depends on accurate disclosure and inclusion of all details
in an employment contract.

This is as much the responsibilty of the employee as the employer.

(And what about the self-employed?)

Stan

[Stanley Sinclair]

Indeed, Jim we can agree to disagree. However, in reading your
response, we have agreed completely!

<<It is unreasonable to be on call 7/24/365. For people to function
effectively they do need some "time off". . . >>

Yes. But it is the responsibilty of the Professional to find another
equally skilled Professional to cover him/her for the time off.

In reading the rest of your response, you agree completely that
everything depends on accurate disclosure and inclusion of all details
in an employment contract.

This is as much the responsibilty of the employee as the employer.

(And what about the self-employed?)

Stan

[Victor Reed]

No doubts, it is the responsibility of the employee as the employer ..
Many times, the contracts are in such a manner that an employee may
not fully understand the implications ... In my previous job, in the
interview I was told that I'll be on-call(no compensation) in a rota
.... There were six people, so my cover was once in six weeks ... In a
few months time, just two of us were expected to do the job of all 6
(4 laid off on the same day) ... So lots of work during the day and
on-call once in two weeks ... When we requested for a compensation we
were bluntly told 'No such thing in your contract!!' ... I left the
job next month ..

A self-employed has to take professsional advice before signing
contracts, to avoid traps
Cheers
victor


st*************@bellsouth.net (Stanley Sinclair) wrote in message news:<6f**************************@posting.google. com>...

Indeed, Jim we can agree to disagree. However, in reading your
response, we have agreed completely!

<<It is unreasonable to be on call 7/24/365. For people to function
effectively they do need some "time off". . . >>

Yes. But it is the responsibilty of the Professional to find another
equally skilled Professional to cover him/her for the time off.

In reading the rest of your response, you agree completely that
everything depends on accurate disclosure and inclusion of all details
in an employment contract.

This is as much the responsibilty of the employee as the employer.

(And what about the self-employed?)

Stan

[Christopher Browne]

Glen A Stromquist <glen_stromquist@no_spam_yahoo.com> writes:

Richard wrote:

My employer currently pays me $1/hour when I carry a pager. I have
to carry the pager every fourth week. The problem is that my
employer insists that I be available when I'm carrying the pager.
So, for $1/hr they expect me to remain within pager range, remain
sober, and be available to come to work. That really sucks on
weekends. No going to the beach (out of pager range) or out to a
friend's cottage (out of pager range), etc. Declining to carry the
pager is NOT an option. I'm curious what compensation others get
and more importantly, what's your employers expectation of your
availability when you're on-call? Thanks.

I carry a pager and a cell, and get squat for it, its a condition of
employment. We take turns being on call for weekends, but basically
we all are anyway, the on-call person will just contact me if the
problem is db related anyway, same goes for our network guys, as400
guys etc. I do a lot of after hours monitoring & work on my own
anyway, in turn I get a lot of flexibility, if I want to leave early
to watch one of my kids school event I go, no questions asked. As
long as everything runs and runs smoothly things are ok. Works for
me anyway...

That sort of thing is tenable for "departmental" systems; it's much
less so for truly 24x7 systems that need to be monitored all the time.

We have some of the latter variety; the arrangement is $20/day, with
(1 + some percentage) of hourly rate additional compensation when
calls come in, with a minimum time period that gets billed.

If I never get called, I'll get $140 for a week on call. If I get
paged in the night, I'm sure to get an hour or two of compensation.

This arrangement feels reasonably fair.

There may be situations where employers feel they have their employees
"over the barrel" and can demand off-hours services at no charge.
That can, of course, be the justification for almost any sort of
unkindness.
--
output = reverse("gro.mca" "@" "enworbbc")
http://cbbrowne.com/info/sgml.html
Real Programmers are surprised when the odometers in their cars don't
turn from 99999 to A0000.

[Christopher Browne]

st*************@bellsouth.net (Stanley Sinclair) writes:

I won't bore anyone with my personal reasons. I am a physician (MD
in practice), an MBA (consultant in practice), and an active
database programmer. For details about why I feel as I do, write me
privately. (In 35 years of medical practice, I have never received
a cent for being on call 24/7/365. On the toilet, during sex, at my
parent's funeral, nor any other time.)

Ah, but do you not charge fees when called to do a procedure at those
odd hours, then?

It is usual, as far as I can tell, for doctors to indeed bill for
procedures done when they get called, whether that be during "normal
business hours" or after-hours. I once got a chunk of chicken stuck
in my throat, needing intervention of an ENT late at night; while I
did not see the bill, I can only assume that he got paid for doing the
procedure.

It does not strike me as "unprofessional" to imagine that one might
get compensated for such things. A company that expects its employees
to provide quality service can certainly be expected to pay for that.

In markets where employers can see many unemployed would-be staff
members, they can certainly choose to pay people less (irrespective of
reason). If they consider their staff to be valuable to them, then
compensating their staff in a manner that is regarded as "fair" is not
merely fair, but needful.

In particular, if there is the ability to choose whether or not to be
part of an "on-call" group, then for there to be "fairness," there
needs to be some difference in the handling of compensation for those
that choose this way or that. THAT is "only professional."
--
"cbbrowne","@","cbbrowne.com"
http://www3.sympatico.ca/cbbrowne/linuxxian.html
Always remember that you're unique, just like everyone else.

[Stanley Sinclair]

Chris,

The subject of the thread has been "What's your compensation for
*carrying* a pager???" Of course I charge for "physical" procedures I
do.

But I don't charge (as lawyers do) for the dozen weekend calls, "I
forgot to refill my meds on Friday. The prescription is expired. I
need you to call the pharmacy and OK it." (A call like that typically
takes 15 minutes to handle, and costs me $1.25 for the answering
service, + whatever I pay for the cell phone, + the danger of taking
the call on the highway, + being called away from normal life + cost
of office staff pulling chart and entering on Monday AM + ...)

Nor do I charge (as lawyers do) for the 3 AM calls, "I can't sleep --
do something." That takes three minutes to handle (!@$*!) and one
hour to get back to sleep.

Let's see, lawyers get $250/hr (more on weekends) plus expenses.
Should YOU need to have your prescription refilled on a Sunday, how
would you feel about the bill for $80 (not covered by insurance)?

Stan
Christopher Browne <cb******@acm.org> wrote in message news:<60************@dev6.int.libertyrms.info>...

st*************@bellsouth.net (Stanley Sinclair) writes:

I won't bore anyone with my personal reasons. I am a physician (MD
in practice), an MBA (consultant in practice), and an active
database programmer. For details about why I feel as I do, write me
privately. (In 35 years of medical practice, I have never received
a cent for being on call 24/7/365. On the toilet, during sex, at my
parent's funeral, nor any other time.)

Ah, but do you not charge fees when called to do a procedure at those
odd hours, then?

It is usual, as far as I can tell, for doctors to indeed bill for
procedures done when they get called, whether that be during "normal
business hours" or after-hours. I once got a chunk of chicken stuck
in my throat, needing intervention of an ENT late at night; while I
did not see the bill, I can only assume that he got paid for doing the
procedure.

It does not strike me as "unprofessional" to imagine that one might
get compensated for such things. A company that expects its employees
to provide quality service can certainly be expected to pay for that.

In markets where employers can see many unemployed would-be staff
members, they can certainly choose to pay people less (irrespective of
reason). If they consider their staff to be valuable to them, then
compensating their staff in a manner that is regarded as "fair" is not
merely fair, but needful.

In particular, if there is the ability to choose whether or not to be
part of an "on-call" group, then for there to be "fairness," there
needs to be some difference in the handling of compensation for those
that choose this way or that. THAT is "only professional."