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What so special about PostgreSQL and other RDBMS?

Beside its an opensource and supported by community, what's the fundamental
differences between PostgreSQL and those high-price commercial database (and
some are bloated such as Oracle) from software giant such as Microsoft SQL
Server, Oracle, and Sybase?

Is PostgreSQL reliable enough to be used for high-end commercial
application? Thanks
Jul 20 '05
125 14929
Bottom line, whem it comes to medium/large application/database or even
CRM./ERP... would MySQL/PostgreSQL have a problem to handle it?
I mean, when the code is set up right and the database structure design is
right.
an honest answer would be appreciated.
"Daniel Morgan" <da******@x.was hington.edu> wrote in message
news:1084195499 .492013@yasure. ..
Quirk wrote:
Son, it sounds like you're the victim of some simplistic advise from
database 101 book:


Ok Dad, it sounds like you're the victim of the patronizing ass school
of discourse. My condolences to your coleagues.


Apparently you went to that school too ... and graduated with honors.

--
Daniel Morgan
http://www.outreach.washington.edu/e...ad/oad_crs.asp
http://www.outreach.washington.edu/e...oa/aoa_crs.asp
da******@x.wash ington.edu
(replace 'x' with a 'u' to reply)


Jul 20 '05 #41
Quirk (qu***@syntac.n et) writes:
Erland Sommarskog <so****@algonet .se> wrote in message

news:<Xn******* *************@1 27.0.0.1>...
Quirk (qu***@syntac.n et) writes:

The system that I work with now runs only on RBDMS: MS SQL Server.


Well, I hope that the other readers of the thread now know enough to
never hire a company as stupid as yours.

I hope you one day learn how to write real software before your
unskilled labour is no longer needed in the industry.


Well, I have the guts to sign my articles with my real name. You haven't.
So you don't really have to consider whether what you say affects your
possibilities on the market.

The product that my company manufactures is for a narrow segment on the
market: stock brokers and other actors on the financial markets, so most
readers would not have reason to contact us anyway.

Anyway, I only offered testimony from real life. As I said, a compeitor
of ours tried precisely what you teach. And that company never managed
to complete their system.

--
Erland Sommarskog, SQL Server MVP, so****@algonet. se

Books Online for SQL Server SP3 at
http://www.microsoft.com/sql/techinf...2000/books.asp
Jul 20 '05 #42
"Mookstah" <do**********@m ailbox.com> wrote in message news:<40******* *@news.bezeqint .net>...
Bottom line, whem it comes to medium/large application/database or even
CRM./ERP... would MySQL/PostgreSQL have a problem to handle it?
I mean, when the code is set up right and the database structure design is
right.
an honest answer would be appreciated.


Could it do it? yes, it certainly could. But there's a huge gulf
between could & should. Just like - you shouldn't haul firewood in a
car, but I sure as hell knew a guy who did it in his AMC Pacer.

Would I do it? No. By the time you price out an ERP solution for a
large company (say a SAP implementation at $20 million, or a Siebel
solution at $6k / desktop) - the cost of database licensing is
inconsequential - especially when related to the risks associated with
a project failure. In other words - don't let a $20m project fail
because you tried to shave $200k off the database price. And why is
the risk greater for these open source databases? Not a problem with
open source, just maturity.

Postgresql is a good DBMS, but still lacks quite a few features that
are really useful in the large-scale ERP/CRM world. The lack of major
BI capabilities like partitioning, parallelism, etc as well as more
robust admin tools is really risky when it comes to the big apps.

MySQL is missing more features - and is developed by a vendor that
continuously downplays ANSI SQL standards, basic early-80s database
features, etc. They've played up their performance figures, but
seldom on significant hardware in a mixed-write environment with
transactions (only supported on the third-party product Innodb.
Worse, the way that MySQL fails to alert the user of exceptions
drastically increases the likelihood of undetected data corruption.
Lastly, its lack of so many basic features means that application
level code has to be significantly changed in order to port from any
other significant database to mysql. On the other hand, they've got a
lot of users, so they'll probably eventually get everything rewritten
and have something reasonable to show.

You asked about large complex databases, and the above comments are my
opinion on applying open source databases to that challenge today. On
the other hand, I'd say that there a ton of other potential ways to
use these databases in the enterprise successfully.

These days I'm recommending postgresql for some little database
projects we've got. It's easy to develop on, easy to maintain, can
handle millions of rows, and is easy to port to the in-house
commercial database we use here if that becomes necessary (usually due
to administrative/management reasons rather than performance). On the
other hand, I wouldn't implement a MySQL database unless it was the
only option with the product. Just isn't worth the headaches.

BTW, didn't mention Firebird - I've heard that it was a decent
database, and isn't very expensive at all.
Jul 20 '05 #43
Mookstah wrote:
Bottom line, whem it comes to medium/large application/database or even
CRM./ERP... would MySQL/PostgreSQL have a problem to handle it?
I mean, when the code is set up right and the database structure design is
right.
an honest answer would be appreciated.


Probably. But only right up until it crashed or some cracker tried
to break in. Then it would likely be both as fragile and as transparent
as a sheet of glass.

Does anyone really believe that if SAP and PeopleSoft could make as
much or more money writing their products to work against these
products they wouldn't? Does anyone really believe that CFOs and CIOs,
looking at their budgets, wouldn't be running to these products en-mass?

I am a strong supporter of the open-source community. I have and will
continue to advocate management dump MS Office for OpenOffice. But I
would never risk any organization's data, read that business assets,
and I can't think of too many others in my position that would.

--
Daniel Morgan
http://www.outreach.washington.edu/e...ad/oad_crs.asp
http://www.outreach.washington.edu/e...oa/aoa_crs.asp
da******@x.wash ington.edu
(replace 'x' with a 'u' to reply)

Jul 20 '05 #44
"Volker Hetzer" <vo***********@ ieee.org> wrote in message news:<c7******* ***@nntp.fujits u-siemens.com>...
> > That's not true. Yes it is. What was the value of this reply?
What was the value of yours? Or this latest one?

A question is not an answer.


And what was your reply?
Yes, you have the right to be overcharged for work that may or may not
not suit your needs by only _one_ vendor, and no right to go elsewhere
when they fail, ignore you outright, stop supporting your application
or vanish from the face of the earth. Have you actually read your
contract or software licence?

Of course. See the end of this posting.

It only protects the vendor, not you.

I've read the licence and done even more: I've used the software and tested the contract.


Realy, care to quote the part of the Contract that Gaurantees you any
rights?

Instead, what you will find is that the contracts insists that the
Software is not gauranteed to be usefull for any particilar purpose,
and that they deny all responsibilitty for it to the extent possible
by law.

By "tested the contarct" what you mean is you agreed to pay them
completely on their terms and where satisified with the results they
chose to give you.

Have you tested alternatives?
> > The right to modify is a red herring.
>
> Not if your application and the permenancy of your data is important. You didn't read my posting, right?


You are one funny guy. Really. I'll bet you're the first guy in usenet
to ever ask this question rhetoricly. Nice way of avoiding an answer.
Are so so stupid that you actually expect a serious answer that was
obviously a
hostile attempt to insult by way of a rhetorical question?
I don't *want* to create my own development
team competing with the original one. I don't want to merge my change back
into their code with every new release! I don't want to develop code and
then have them decide whether they condescend to incorporate it or not! I
want the authors of the software to do the coding based on what I'm willing
to pay for!


You are dependent on their licence I'm dependent on the author's licence regardless of which database I use.
Yes, which is why you should choose one that give you a perpetual
right to the source code, otherwise you are locked into a dependancy
that may prove fatal to your application.
It's just that some licences give me the illusion of being able to do
something while mainly giving me in reality the ability to shoot myself in
the foot or paying someone else to shoot me in the foot.
Unsubstantiated bunk, if you have the source code, it is not magic to
fix it, or extend it, just normal progamming. Simple calling something
an illusion does not explain why you condsider it impossible to
actually change a program. Perhaps you should consider a different
line of work.
because you built your own
application on top of a platform for which you have no source code, Same question: Did you read what I wrote?
A better question: What kind of an idiot are you that, in the face of
good sense, the best you can do is attemp insulting, evasive
rehetoric?
I don't care about the source code, I care about product and support
quality. And, since I am not the developer of the software, nor is anyone else,
apart from *the* developers,
As I said, my comments where ment *FOR DEVELOPERS* that is those who
are developing *NEW* appliciations, and my advice is simple enough,
despite your contortions: If your application is important to you, do
not engineer a dependency on code you do not have access to.
anyone else is going to make a worse job than
them. So, I get the best support when I'm paying them and no one else.
More unsubstantiated bunk, first of all, in many cases you can hire
the original developers, regardless of your right to the source code,
secondly, by hiring the "Copyright Holders" you *ARE NOT NECESSARLIY
HIRING THE DEVELEORS*, who may not even be with the company anymore,
in fact you are often hiring some peon who they scooped of the
consulting market 5 minutes before sending him to your office as an
certified solutions prodiver or whatever idiotic buzzword whey have
for their unskilled labour.

And finaly, it is a falalcy to say that someone will do a worse job
simply because they are not the original developer.
and no right to modify, you then also have no leverage with the vendor
of the orginal software.

You have no rights at all, wether or not you are willing to pay.

Read oracles licence some time. There it says very clearly what
you get if you enter a support agreement.


But it stops short of guaranting that your apllication will actualy
work, or that your existing version of the software will be supported.

In anycase, I am not arguing agianst using Oracle, as I said, if
Oracle suits your needs and you think it's worth the money, use it,
however, my advice is that if you do develop an application, write
your code in such a way that you do not depend on Oracle, but can
easily switch it over the the greatest extent possible.

I have no idea why you are insisting on jumping up and down like this
is crazy talk, the only plausible theory is that you get some kind of
thrill out of embarassing yourself.
I dunno, because you're culturaly issolated and have a poor
imagination? No, it's because the phrase "elegant coding" is just as empty.
Or as the phrase "the one true god" uttered by people of
different religions.
This is just stupid, elegnt coding is hardly as unatainable an ideal
as you seem to be conviced, in fact in this specific case it's a
simply matter of using a standard wrapper function throughtout your
aplication to access your data rather than using proprietary bindings
throughout your application, if your application is sufficently
complicated, perhaps a data abstaction object might be usefull for
this function, perhaps not, if you use any non standard features of
your database server, then write some additional functions as wrappers
for these. It is anything but rocket science.
For db computing, reducing server load is the important thing.


No, it is not, in most cases CPU is not the most limited resource.
Interoperabilit y
typically means primitive, network/db intensive sql. Yup. Which, in a well configured db is CPU load because
caching, indexing and db specific sql takes care of the i/o load.


What about the human and financial load? As in the load on the DBA,
inhouse developers, consulting budgets and application support staff?
Nevertheless, I concede, it *is* possible to have such a
horribly configured system that i/o load becomes an issue. It's also
possible to have a database that permits so few actions
that the dba can't do anything about a badly written app.
fortunately, oracle is different. No, interoperabilit y means abilty to integrate applications in a
heterogeneus environment. It means standards and flexibilty.

So? What's more "standardis ed" about mysql's socket interface than
about oracles OCI or ESQL?


Are you having a nightmare in which we are dicussing the various
merits of MySQL versus Oracle? Please follow your own advice and read
this thread again so that you might figure out what is it we are
actually taking about.
> > If it's important it must not matter whether one tries to
> > access the data from a local or remote machine. Interesting that you believe that this can not be accomblished with
> network security. Yes. Now you figure out why.


Because you don't know what you are doing maybe? Wrong. Try again.
The more you talk, the clearer it is how right I was.
Oh wait, you don't
need to, after all, you have decided to pay a vendor to know for you,
I remember now.

Right. The alternative is not paying anyone and trying to figuring out the
source code on my own, right? Or paying someone else who starts
from scratch too?


More straw men and red herrings. If you are a Developer, which is who
my comments are addressed to, it is your responsiblilty to your users
and clients to know how your application works and to be able to
support it without allowing some third party to hold them hostage.
> Yes, a securely configured database, protected by a secure network,
> the later being far more important! A network will alway have holes, simply because legitimate users
have to get through and legitimacy can change while they are in.
Therefore you protect the data where they are. In the db.


If your network has holes, then your database is insecure, because I
can get right at the filesystem blobs, the reverse however is not
true. Care to elaborate? An insecure network does not mean that someone can
log on to the database server from anywhere but the console screwed onto
it. And securing the listener (in case of oracle) is part of the database
configuration.
If the above is true, that someone can only access any of the devices
on your Database server via the local console, then your network *IS*
secure (perhaps too secure, but that's beside the point), However, if
your network is not secure, then that is not true, and your Database
security is a dangerous false sence of security.

This is what I'm trying to say, that network security comes first,
because Database security can only depend on it, not being able to
actualy protect devices, which is the burden on the OS and networking
environment.

Once again, It must be assumed that your consternations to contend
this point are some weird form of self-flagilation.
Right. You show me how do convert VENUS chip designs into Synopsys
without going into a museom for the original hardware and getting all
the versions in between.


What does this have to do with "Self Contained, Self Describing, Human
Readable" files that can be read on any system past or present? It has to do with permanency. Try to read what you quote.
What does reading text files have to do with Chip design? I can read
text files I created on my Apple ][, and no, I do not have the orginal
hardware (well maybe my mom does somewhere in her basement).

Try to avoid making an ass of yourself with further pretentions.
tell me, how much do you know about my
experience, What your arguments tell me.
Which ones? That abstracting access to suspect dependencies is a good
idea? That database security is secondary to network security? That
one should keep archives in a format that is likely to be readable
forever?

All these things come from experience, your attempt to question my
experience, only show that you are unable to formalute an actual
argument, so you try and discredit the arguer instead of the argument.
and why do you feel that talking about _me_ is a response
to my argument? Because your argument isn't backed by anything. Give me some
substance and we can talk about it.
Oh please, my argument has been presented well enough, attacking me
just shows you can not defend your own, that is if you actually had
one.

If my argument was not backed up by anything it would easy enough to
refute it without attempting to insult me, you started with the
insulting precicely because you could not defeat my arguments.

But please, don't take this as discourgement from continuing to try
your silly insults, I don't mind being given the oportunity to
embarrass you personaly as well as refute your arguments, but it is
hard for me to understand why would chose to subject yourself to such,
as one would think it would more pleasent for you to simple lose a
respectfull debate, rather than lose a debate and a battle of wit at
the same time.
All I've hear so far is the
usual open source rethoric about me or someone else being able
to magically support a product in a few days or weeks after the
original developers have abandoned it, or me.
These must be voices in your head that you are hearing. Since my
argument have been quite clear and even sumerized several times.

Your arguments amount to the metaphysical belief that only the
copyright holders of your favourite proporiety software know how to
program, that the very concept of good programming is an illussion,
and therfore the only way forward is to make yourself both tehnicaly
and legaly dependent on them as much as possible.
> If you have the source code, you are the developer, Wrong. I am the user, t.


Oh, well then I guess we have nothing further to discuss, my comments
here where meant for actual developers.

So, oracle people should further develop oracle and mysql people
mysql. Did I get this right?
No, that's not right, that's not even wrong.

(with applogies to Wolfgang Pauli)

Application developers should avoid locking themselves in to external
dependencies, either by not using products to which they have no right
to the source code, or abstracting access when they do use such
products. Simple.

And having right to the source code does not mean that the program is
'open source,' as you can purchace such a right for propretary code,
as is common for libraries.

Of course, when the program _is_ open source, you are guaranteed that
right.
You have no such right, ever, the only right you _can_ have is the
right to modify it yourself or contract someone to do it. Please read
your licence.

"Assistance with my SRs 24 hours per day, 7days a week". Practically I
usually get two or three guys working on a typical SR of mine, depending on
how log it takes. Without a contract I'd get a 'buzz off, I'm doing my exams > this month'.


"Assitance" only means that they will provide someone whose time they
can bill you for, not that anything will be accomplished. And you
discredit yourself by attemping the fallacy that the only way to have
access to an applications source code is to hire some one who is doing
exams. Many large companies, and profesional develpoers provide source
licences and/or support open source products, including the largest
computer company in the world, IBM.

Cheers.
Jul 20 '05 #45
"Volker Hetzer" <vo***********@ ieee.org> wrote in message news:<c7******* ***@nntp.fujits u-siemens.com>...
"Quirk" <qu***@syntac.n et> schrieb im Newsbeitrag news:4e******** *************** *@posting.googl e.com...
ed*****@highstr eam.net (Edward Lloyd Hillman) wrote in message news:<10******* ******@news.sup ernews.com>...
> You have no such right, ever, the only right you _can_ have is the
> right to modify it yourself or contract someone to do it. Please read
> your licence.
Got a news flash for ya...
Oh boy, it's Seseme Street News, OK Kermit, keep talking.
If you have a maintenance contract with a vendor and something of
theirs' is broken, they must fix it if you need it.


Perhaps, but when the product in question is proprietary you have no
recourse when they fail, because no one else has any right to modify
the source code. I have, at most, the right to sue them,
What cold comfort that is. I would prefer the right to make my
aplication work without their good graces.

Before you consider suing them I suggest you reiview your contact with
an actual lawyer. So you can understand exactly how painted into a
corner you really are.

Good luck in your legal adventures. I prefer to solve my problems by
programming. (my users and clients seem to prefer this too)
at least, the right to cancel the
contract which hurts them way more
How can you cancel the contract when your entire application is
dependanton there product? Can you afford to throw away your
application too?
than if I go to a postgres developer
and tell him I'm not interested any more. So, unlike open source developers,
they actually have an interest in doing something.
What on earth are you trying to say here? Why is a postgresql
developer any more or less interested in your contarct than one who
pedals proprietary software?
When you have a right to the source code you can sign such a contarct
with any firm you like, and fire their ass and hire another when they
fail.

But it doesn't make sense to use any other firm than the guys who wrote it.


Why? What magic powers are possesed by the firm that holds the
copyright? Expcet the power to prevent anyone else from touching or
looking at their code?
See my other postings and the reply about division of labour. You might
also read up on Maos Great Leap Forward and north coreas policy of doing
everything themselves.
You're not seriously trying to draw me into to a discusion on
communist history are you? If so, please go ahead, it may be
intersting. I've been reading the Fabian writing of George Bernard
Shaw recently myself.

By the way, I am _not_ arguing that one must do everything
themeselves, only that one should not get locked into being dependant
on a single provide.

As I'v said, I'm baffled that this is so controversial that you all
expect me to defend my good name merely for saying it.
I'm not sure what this example is supposed to illustrate. The vendor
failed to fix the bug originaly and ony did so under dures, The point was that contracts work.
It was quite a poorly demonstrated point, as they nearly did and could
well have lost their own customer under the arrangement.
which only
shows how vulnerable you where to begin with,
Why was he vulnerable if he had a contract that required the vendor to work?
Because there is no such requirement, you can not really force an
unwilling vendor to do work that do not want to do. If you think you
can, you are delusional. If you have enought legal might, you may be
able to get a refund, usualy limited to the whatever you originaly
paid, not compensating you for you own ivestment.

As the old joke goes: "if this fire alarm fails, and your house burns
down, we will refund the entire purchase price (not including the
battaries)."
if you had the right to
say 'OK, were going to fire you and give someone else the contract'
they would have fixed your bug pronto with no back talk. Maybe, but in case of open source software they'd say 'Good luck
working into our source code, see you in two years'.
Were do you get this idea? You can contract many companies, large and
small, to support your open source product, the difference being that
you can hire another when when they fail, because you have a right to
the source code, where as you have no recource when the provider has
all the rights.
The only way you can get that kind of support is with a maintance
contract. With Open Source we'd have had to spend many extra
man-hours trying to find where the problem was and how to fix it
without breaking anything else.


Why? You could have the exact same contarct with a vendor supporting
an open source product,

Yes, but then it would cost like any other product, right?
Yes, developing applications costs money, it is this investment I am
advising people to protect by not getting locked into third party
dependencies.
or negotiate access to source for the vendors
product, the only difference being that you then have leverage. The access to the source means nothing, see above.
It means everthing. It means the difference being being the master of
your applications and contracts or being a slave to a third party
vendor.
Or
failing that, your application could have been designed to to give you
alternatives, Right. And the customer throws away years of experience with one db system
and pulls a finished, reliable and maintainable alternative installation out
of the hat.
Maybe not 'out of the hat' but with less expense and retraining that
having to reprogram the entire application which was programmed with
proprietary bindings everwhere instead of properly abstracted code.
Including people who have been trained on it.
In what way is a change from oracle to db2 easier than a change from
postgresql to mysql?
Well, for one, you would never have to change away from the open
source products because of a dispute with the developer. But in
anycase, my argument is not, and never was, oracle and db2 versus
postgresql or mysql. But rather for abstraction when you do not have
source code, or sometimes then too.
But you put yourself in a position were you may have been unable you
support your own customer _AT_ALL_ except for the good graces of your
vendor.

Why? He doesn't support the db. The db vendor does that. All he has to do is > to show that it's othe db's fault, at which point his customer's maintenance
contract with the db vendor kicks in. Normal business practice.


Yes, passing the buck is unfortunalty the normal business practice,
however good firms neither do it or put up with it. I certainly would
not expect my clients or users to be satisfied when I told them, I'm
sorry the application I provided for you doesn't work, but you will
have to discuss this with Larry Ellison. Nor would I be satisfied
giving such an excuse.

BTW, this latest response is much better in tone than your last one, I
hope this is a trend.

Cheers.

*
Jul 20 '05 #46
"Mookstah" <do**********@m ailbox.com> wrote in message news:<40******* *@news.bezeqint .net>...
Bottom line, whem it comes to medium/large application/database or even
CRM./ERP... would MySQL/PostgreSQL have a problem to handle it?
The unfortunate answer is 'depends,' on one hand SAP has been working
quite closely recently with MySQL AG, and PostegreSQL has some of the
smartest people in the industry helping to develop it, and there are
many medium/large applications that run very well on both.

However, both, like all software, do have their deficiencies, and
there is no question that comercial products, Oracle in particular,
has functionality that
neither offer.

The answer must be made on a case by case basis, after thourough
design and analysis.

The best advice you can heed is that your application should be
programmed in such a way that it is not dependant on any external
dependancy for wich you do not have source code. Either by only using
products for which you do have source code, or abstracting access when
you do not, and that your data should be archived in such a way that
you will never lose access to it.
I mean, when the code is set up right and the database structure design is
right.
an honest answer would be appreciated.


The honest answer is that open source is better in most, but not all
cases.

Cheers.
Jul 20 '05 #47
Daniel Morgan <da******@x.was hington.edu> wrote in message news:<108419549 9.492013@yasure >...
Quirk wrote:
Son, it sounds like you're the victim of some simplistic advise from
database 101 book:


Ok Dad, it sounds like you're the victim of the patronizing ass school
of discourse. My condolences to your coleagues.


Apparently you went to that school too ... and graduated with honors.


Yup. That's actualy an understatement. Those who insist on playing
dozens with me should take warning, I admit, I do relish the game, in
fact, I even know it's history and cultral signifigance, from the
slave communites to modern hip hop, with a healthy study of the art of
controversy and the logical fallicies to boot.

However, I am just as happy to engage in respectful discusion, as
anyone can see, but when someone starts a discusion by calling me
'son' you must admit that he had it comming. And I was rather mild I
think.

Also note that I responded to all his actual arguments clearly and
reasonably.

Cheers.
Jul 20 '05 #48
Erland Sommarskog <so****@algonet .se> wrote in message news:<Xn******* *************** @127.0.0.1>...
I hope you one day learn how to write real software before your
unskilled labour is no longer needed in the industry.
Well, I have the guts to sign my articles with my real name.


My name is Dmytri Kleiner, you could have easily found that out with a
simple search on any known search engine. I am possibly one of the
easiest people in the world to find.
The product that my company manufactures is for a narrow segment on the
market: stock brokers and other actors on the financial markets, so most
readers would not have reason to contact us anyway.
Good thing that you only mislead a few customers into overpaying for
crap. Your company is just a bankruptcy waiting for a competent
competitor to make it happen.
Anyway, I only offered testimony from real life.
Yeah, you and Kaspar Hauser.
As I said, a compeitor
of ours tried precisely what you teach.
And that company never managed
to complete their system.


What bunk, saying the competitor tried 'precicely what I teach' and
thus failed is an obvious attempt to fallaciously discredit my
argument with out actually addressing it. You're a ham fisted shill.

It's is as obvious that this competitor is unlikely to have 'tried
precisely what I teach' as it is that you have not shown us that this,
and not another reason, was why they failed.
Jul 20 '05 #49
bu*********@yah oo.com (Buck Nuggets) wrote in message news:<66******* *************** ***@posting.goo gle.com>...
Would I do it? No. By the time you price out an ERP solution for a
large company (say a SAP implementation at $20 million, or a Siebel
solution at $6k / desktop) - the cost of database licensing is
inconsequential - especially when related to the risks associated with
a project failure. In other words - don't let a $20m project fail
because you tried to shave $200k off the database price. And why is
the risk greater for these open source databases? Not a problem with
open source, just maturity.


This is good advice.

But, of course, not all database projects are $20 million projects, in
fact most are not.

What I find surprising is that so many companies *will* spend so much
money and wind up without the right to modify the source code of the
applications they paid for, I don't mean only using open source, or
having the right to distribute their modifications, I mean //not
having the right to fix their own multi million dollar production
application// whithout the good graces of the original vendor.

From a business point of view this is lunacy. Anybody in supply chain
management will warn you of the dangers of a //single source//. In
almost every
case executives in charge of insuring a critical supply will force any
provider to sign agreements with third parties, or allow the client to
contract third partes. For instance, almost the entire PC business can
be attributed to IBM forcing these kinds of agreements on their
suppliers, including Intel. I have no idea why CIOs have so little
understanding of this that they are frequently hoodwinked into single
source situations regarding the supply of //support// for their
critical applications.

Whatever you do, make sure you have as much source code for your
production application as you can*get, and when you can not get it,
abstract the interfaces so it is as easy to change down the road as
much possible (and of course practical).

And, perhaps most importantly, make sure you can get at your data, at
least for archive purposes, without *any* access method for which you
have no source code.

Bucks is however correct his description of the limitations of the
open source SQL servers, however it is anything but impossible to live
with these limitations, just as it is anything but impossible to get
screwed (not to mention robbed) by a closed source provider.

Cheers.
Jul 20 '05 #50

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