Why use Frameworks in Development?

[kovik]

I used to refuse to use frameworks that I didn't build myself. I always felt like it'd either disappoint me like most things that other people develop or that it'd dumb me down. I mean, seriously, there are people that wouldn't know how to use JavaScript if you were to take jQuery away from them.

But when you start working for bottom-line companies (which your demeanor suggests that you haven't yet, which is okay) and are pressured into using a framework, you may find yourself surprised. Wordpress is full-featured and extensible, CodeIgniter is powerful and developer-friendly, and jQuery is damn near a replacement for JavaScript.


Good frameworks are only here to speed up your production process. You'd rather use PHP than Assembly, right? Frameworks are just another layer of abstraction. :)

[David Navratil]

I absolutely get what you´re saying, thanks for your reply!
I actually don´t want to use assembly - though I´d like to learn it anyways, but thats another story; maybe PHP is just a framework I am used to accept in my workflow, but I never really saw it as a framework, more as a base to start with (though it´s in fact based on C, but come on).

I think the main reason for not using frameworks for me is not that I don´t trust third party code, that´s just one little side; the real problem in using these might be only with using server-side scripts, where security is an issue - when you use open source frameworks, you always need to be up to date about framework-specific vulnerabilities, which is time I´d rather spent doing more exciting things.

The main reason I do these things on my own is that I got pretty bored by just using things which are easy. You know, the first time validating a form and writing everything into the database - that was a great feeling. But now I just feel stump doing it all over again (you need these things all the time).

Using a JavaScript framework would simplify my work as a web developer, but it would take every joy out of my work since the only fun I have is trying out new things and trying to understand the way they work. I find it exciting to fiddle around with it to make it work in the end.

So I guess it´s my way of life by now. But you are right about being constrained to use frameworks in companies; I´ve had good luck in these terms; the company I work for started with it´s webpage at zero, so I built it from scratch and now I have sort of my own framework now (with its own bugs of course); the nice part is that every time I need to change something I know exactly where to search for it.

Oh and before I forget it - I might someday consider using jQuery and its competitors, but before I do that, I want to be able to - at least theoretically - build my own. Because I don´t want to use anything I can´t look behind. :)

[kovik]

Haha. Listening you is like listening to myself. :)

I absolutely refused to even TRY jQuery until I made my own JavaScript framework. The same with using CodeIgniter before developing my own MVC framework. And I never used Wordpress until after I developed my own blog software. And I re-made each of my own applications twice before even trying out the competition.

But now, after dozens of unfinished or abandoned projects, I find myself focusing on the functionality after laying out the basics. Though, I've sworn to eventually revive my old projects and replace CodeIgniter + jQuery with my own stuff. :3

It's better that way anyway. I can spend the rest of the development process refactoring. Website maintenance isn't fun. Developing the back-end is. :)


As for being able to read the code, CodeIgniter and jQuery are quite readable, just not exactly easy to follow in terms of what happens where. But they are easily extensible, so it's rarely an issue. You can overwrite most of their functionality.

[David Navratil]

What more can I say. You pinpointed it.
I believe we are both heading towards a bright future - at least until all of the power supplies are gone and we live in the middle of the world hiding from machines. :)

[kovik]

Oh god. If electricity ever ran out, I dunno what I'd do. o.o

If robots took over, I'd just laugh in the face of everyone that said it was impossible. lol

[David Navratil]

I guess that anything human stupidity can invent is possible. You think these machines would be using jQuery? :)

[kovik]

Nope. They'd be back to Assembly. That way they could rewrite their own code. How else would they take over? :P

[David Navratil]

Maybe they´d get bored over time by using assembly and would start developing frameworks. Let´s say some robotic assembly guru writes an evil ProboType framework which allows cross-robot-call of killHuman(humanid). So most robots will say: damn, I would never have thought about killing a human myself; but now that it´s that easy everyone can do it - why not.

[kovik]

It's like upgrading their internal software! If only we could do that...

sitDown.getExerciseBenefits();
beHappy(" :) ");

[David Navratil]

I like that! I´ve been working on a beHappy-function for a very long time now. I might pass you a note when I reach beta phase; actually, no framework seems to fit my needs on this. :)

[kovik]

It's my guess that the good old "Lack-of" framework is a contributor. :)

[David Navratil]

I don´t know if I fully understand your thought on that, but if I do, i think you would also need the "Dont-care"-component; let me try:

// This is what we know:
var idea = new Idea(Idea.UNHAPPY,new Lack-of(Things.EVERYTHING));
globalMedia.publish(idea);
individualPerson.consume(globalMedia);
individualPerson.beHappy(); // returns false;
 
// New attempt
crazyPerson.earnTrust(individualPerson);
var baseidea = new Idea(Idea.DONT_CARE,globalMedia);
var betteridea = new Idea(Idea.HAPPY,new Lack-of(Things.EVERYTHING));
crazyPerson.explain(individualPerson,baseidea,betteridea);
individualPerson.beHappy(); // might return true?
 

[kovik]

I was commenting on it being fun to program without a framework. But that works too. lol

I was laughing at your post at work. The office consists of the boss, me, the designer girl, and the SEO girl. They couldn't quite understand the humor. It's like our own foreign language.

[MMcCarthy]

Hey Guys,

I love the way this conversation is developing and we love to encourage interaction between our members. However, we like things to stay on topic to the question to keep it clean for people searching.

So I'm going split this thread and move this discussion to the software development forum and title it "Use of frameworks in development".

Mary

[Niheel]

Find frameworks great for prototyping and if needed you can go back and code the application just the way you need it for production. I agree with Kovik though, it's just another layer of abstraction to make development faster and easier. The trick is finding a stable framework or developing your own framework.

[kovik]

Guess it's a matter of whether you feel that the end justifies the means. ;)

[David Navratil]

Ah here it went!
Anyways, best regards to your colleagues. :)