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Is Vista replacing XP or Not?

MMcCarthy
14,534 Expert Mod 8TB
When I bought my new system a couple of months ago I actually paid extra to have XP Pro installed rather than Vista. Apart from anything else most of my clients still use XP. Eventually I will have to partition my system to allow for Vista to be loaded as well (I have a home licence) just to test compatability.

I've also noticed we are getting more questions from members who are having problems on applications when moving them to Vista.

I would be very interested in the opinions and experiences of this community on this issue.

BTW, can we just accept that Linux is the best thing since sliced bread and keep this topic purely on windows?

Mary (digg it)
Sep 28 '07
92 7839
hariharanmca
1,977 1GB
I haven’t used Vista (no suggestions). But interesting to read.


Just subscribing.....
Sep 29 '07 #51
drhowarddrfine
7,435 Expert 4TB
From Microsoft (yesterday, I believe):
Microsoft announced late Thursday that it would extend sales period of Vista’s predecessor, Windows XP, through June 30, because of what company vice president Mike Nash calls “clear feedback that there was a set of customers who needed a bit more time” to make the move to a new operating system.

Microsoft intended to discontinue new Windows XP sales in January, but many potential corporate customers have backed away from Vista for fear it will cause too many network conflicts.

“We are continually listening to our customers and our partners about ways we can help them realize the benefits that Windows Vista offers,” Nash said in a statement on Microsoft’s website.
Sep 29 '07 #52
MMcCarthy
14,534 Expert Mod 8TB
From Microsoft (yesterday, I believe):
Interesting! How much are you betting they will extend even beyond June.

Maybe corporate customers will start stockpiling XP licences.
Sep 29 '07 #53
NeoPa
32,556 Expert Mod 16PB
Even I - who depend on M$ for my living atm recognise that for the marketing B$ (a technical term) that it is. I bet you were laughing to split your sides Doc. They must know how lame that sounds so I guess they are desperate.

To be fair though, I suppose, the move to XP SP2 had certain similarities, in that compatibilities were dropped in places as the only way to ensure a more solid foundation (I do believe XP SP2 achieved that). There was resistance there at the time I know, but most agree that it was worth taking that step in the end.

If that proves to be the case with Vista (which I sort of hope but strongly doubt) then I will end up with egg on my face - but I could live with that.
Sep 29 '07 #54
Savage
1,764 Expert 1GB
From Microsoft (yesterday, I believe):
I told ya..

Savage
Sep 29 '07 #55
Banfa
9,065 Expert Mod 8TB
Interesting! Maybe corporate customers will start stockpiling XP licences.
This is all happening in exactly the same way as the change from Windows 98SE to XP (OK there was ME and 2K between those 2 but I have never seen an ME machine in a corporate environment, as far as I can tell it was a home user only OS and quite a few companies seemed to skip 2K as well).

We even had customers considering stockpiling 98SE because they did not want to use XP or 2K.

I think one of the problems is that there was a clear difference between 98SE and XP in the way the underlying OS worked and performed and that XP -> Vista seems to be much more of a cosmetic change.

As far as I am aware the company I work for does not upgrade OS's. The machine keeps using the OS it was bought with. This means that there are still some machines around running 2K and a few with 98SE (mainly for support purposes).

At this time we are still buying machines with XP on them. Our IHS department has assessed Vista (I know I sit right next to them and have heard them dicussing it) and I believe have decided that the time is not yet right to start buying machines with it installed.

I have little doubt that Vista will eventually replace XP as the OS of choice for most people but I would personally never consider buying any MS OS before at least SP1 has been released, preferably SP2 on the gorunds that their last phase of testing is always the customer.
Oct 1 '07 #56
nathj
938 Expert 512MB
Hi Everyone,

I find this debate very interesting. I recently started a new job and was provided with a Vista Business Laptop. I was a bit upset about this as I thought XP Pro was the best OS MS had released.
However, 6 months in and I'm coming round to Vista. There are, as many people have said no real differences. I just hope that they fix/change the following:
1. Need to provide adminstrative rights to every program you want to run
2. The IIS worker process has stopped working properly mesage that seems to mean nothing
3. the irritating way it wishes to save all your files in unknown locations.

I guess the problem is that they are trying to hide some of the complexities from the average home user but I have the business edition and know what I'm doing.

In answer to the question I think that once SP1 or SP2 is out businesses will switch, home users are being forced into now and so it is really inevitable that Vista will take over ut give it 2-3years.

Cheers
nathj
Oct 1 '07 #57
Lysander
344 Expert 100+
Following this debate with interest.

At home I use W2K. It works, it does what I need it to. I have dual-booted to XP Pro to get one piece of video editing hardware working, but otherwise I do everything in W2K. I have no need to upgrade to Vista, with all the problems that will occur, when my system is stable. As for business, I work mainly in Access databases and understand that Access does not work as a multi-user system under Vista. If I had the spare cash, and an compatable PC lying around, I might be interested to install a copy and see what it does, but for me, no need to get the latest, all singing OS, along with all its bugs and issues.
Oct 1 '07 #58
MMcCarthy
14,534 Expert Mod 8TB
Following this debate with interest.

At home I use W2K. It works, it does what I need it to. I have dual-booted to XP Pro to get one piece of video editing hardware working, but otherwise I do everything in W2K. I have no need to upgrade to Vista, with all the problems that will occur, when my system is stable. As for business, I work mainly in Access databases and understand that Access does not work as a multi-user system under Vista. If I had the spare cash, and an compatable PC lying around, I might be interested to install a copy and see what it does, but for me, no need to get the latest, all singing OS, along with all its bugs and issues.
I hope none of my clients upgrade to Vista over the next year. I really don't want to have to explain the problems with multi user databases.
Oct 1 '07 #59
Plater
7,872 Expert 4TB
At home I use W2K. It works, it does what I need it to.
What about the statement from microsoft that win2k is no longer supported?
It's a good thing you have that dual boot going now rather then when you start to have problems.

We've been having trouble with 2k for a long time now. They used to destroy our network and don't support a lot of recent hardware.
(Its also been very hard to find device drivers for 2k for awhile now)
Well, regular 2k doesn't. Server 2k is still ok.
Oct 1 '07 #60
YarrOfDoom
1,247 Expert 1GB
I got two words for this: Vista *****! (posting guideline don't allow me to type the second word, but every negative word is suitable) I sure hope updates and sevice packs will help, because it's really getting on my nerves. God, I'm so glad today Linux Kubuntu finally arrived!

Yarr Of Doom
Oct 1 '07 #61
acoder
16,027 Expert Mod 8TB
The only experience I've had of Vista was installing and setting up some software on a client's machine. It was not as easy as I would've liked. The permissions issues were a pain.

One problem was how slow it was to perform basic tasks. I thought I'd unzip using the built-in OS utility/feature. It took absolutely ages. What on earth was it doing? In the end, I just downloaded an unzip program which took no time at all.
Oct 1 '07 #62
Cyberdyne
627 Expert 512MB
I would stick with XP on the corporate level for a while although laptops running Vista Business are ok as they have valuable encryption options and higher security for mobile users.

I have been working with Vista since Codename Longhorn came out then Beta 1, Beta 2 and RC1 and RC2. Once the first release came out I started loading it onto my home machines and test machines at work and I have to say it was a real pain in the neck at first but after several updates from microsoft and better, faster hardware I learned to appreciate the new MACOS like OS. Today I am beta testing the Vista Server edition and I am very happy with it. I am looking forward to SP1 for Vista and later SP2 as well as SP3 for Windows XP =)

By the way as much as I hate to say it I love Microsoft because if it wasnt for them I would not have as many people complaining about their computers and I would not have nearly as much business =)

Regards,

-=Cyberdyne=-
-=Windows & Networking MOD=-
Oct 1 '07 #63
MMcCarthy
14,534 Expert Mod 8TB
I will eventually have to load Vista on a separate partition for testing and compatibility issues. I have a home licence but should I invest in a business licence? Is there that much difference?

Also, what's the issue with multi-user Access databases and vista? There seems to be a problem.
Oct 1 '07 #64
dima69
181 Expert 100+
I work with Win2K both at home and at work, and I don’t see any reason to replace it yet (it’s like engineers say – don’t fix something that’s not broken :)). I don’t need all that graphic features of WinXP, and I like to have full control on my system. Maybe I’m too conservative ?
Oct 3 '07 #65
coolgames
169 100+
Regards,

-=Cyberdyne=-
-=Windows & Networking MOD=-

you seem to be interested a lot about the Upcoming Windows stuff.. OS's...

Win Vista SP1 is officially known as Windows Fiji and is hoped to be released on December 2007 if not, sometime early 2008

and Microsoft's Operating System of 2011 will be Windows Vienna...
which experts say that it will totally change the generation of computers...
Oct 3 '07 #66
Atli
5,058 Expert 4TB
I work with Win2K both at home and at work, and I don’t see any reason to replace it yet (it’s like engineers say – don’t fix something that’s not broken :)). I don’t need all that graphic features of WinXP, and I like to have full control on my system. Maybe I’m too conservative ?
It sounds odd, but I was fooling around with 3D rendering a while back, so I set up a rendering machine on Win2K thinking it's lack of all things pretty would give a small performance boost.
But, in reality, XP out performed Win2K in every test I did. Sometimes stuff that would render in a minute in Win2K would take only 50 seconds in XP.

This left me thinking that MS did not only make WinXP look better, but also perform better.

Unfortunately, Vista does seem to work slower than XP. At least while you are running Aero.
Oct 3 '07 #67
YarrOfDoom
1,247 Expert 1GB
Microsoft's Operating System of 2011 will be Windows Vienna...
which experts say that it will totally change the generation of computers...
They always say that.

Yarr Of Doom
Oct 3 '07 #68
NeoPa
32,556 Expert Mod 16PB
Microsoft's Operating System of 2011 will be Windows Vienna...
which experts say that it will totally change the generation of computers...
They always say that.

Yarr Of Doom
It's true though, ...
A new generation of computers will be needed to run their next OS :(
Oct 3 '07 #69
coolgames
169 100+
i know, they DO say that but, the official date will be like 3years after that..

but, I will be waiting for the new OS's..
Oct 3 '07 #70
acoder
16,027 Expert Mod 8TB
It's true though, ...
A new generation of computers will be needed to run their next OS :(
Just because memory and other resources are cheaper, it's no excuse for bloated and inefficient software.
Oct 3 '07 #71
NeoPa
32,556 Expert Mod 16PB
Just because memory and other resources are cheaper, it's no excuse for bloated and inefficient software.
Unfortunately M$ & the hardware manufacturers seem to have this symbiotic relationship where they both strive to convince the world that the other is needed and makes sense.
I'm afraid they're the only real winners in all this. The extra speed is nice, but when it's mostly (or in the case of Vista completely) used up by the extra 'enhancements' to the OS then there's not much benefit for everybody else.
Oct 3 '07 #72
Shashi Sadasivan
1,435 Expert 1GB
Unfortunately M$ & the hardware manufacturers seem to have this symbiotic relationship where they both strive to convince the world that the other is needed and makes sense.
I'm afraid they're the only real winners in all this. The extra speed is nice, but when it's mostly (or in the case of Vista completely) used up by the extra 'enhancements' to the OS then there's not much benefit for everybody else.
Sun should get their 128 bit processors onto the desktop.
And then we should all watch the fun Microsoft has ! (especially Intel)
(I am not clear wether Sun do have a 128 bit processor....but they had the 64 long time ago)
Oct 3 '07 #73
coolgames
169 100+
Sun should get their 128 bit processors onto the desktop.
And then we should all watch the fun Microsoft has ! (especially Intel)
(I am not clear wether Sun do have a 128 bit processor....but they had the 64 long time ago)
ya, they are not going to have fun...
they are deffinately DOOMED..
Oct 4 '07 #74
markrawlingson
346 Expert 100+
you seem to be interested a lot about the Upcoming Windows stuff.. OS's...

Win Vista SP1 is officially known as Windows Fiji and is hoped to be released on December 2007 if not, sometime early 2008

and Microsoft's Operating System of 2011 will be Windows Vienna...
which experts say that it will totally change the generation of computers...
Hahaha, well I think you just illustrated my point.

Every operating system Microsoft has ever released has been viewed by experts 2-4 years in advance of its release to be something that will "revolutionize the home and office", "give the end-user more control at their fingertips", "reform the way we do business", etc etc - Does any of that sound familiar? It should because the exact same statements are said every single time a new Windows product is slated for release.

A user in here also stated that Microsoft basically plays the general public as peons, knowingly releasing flawed software and then releasing fixes for those problems some time later. That's exactly right, that's what has happened in the case of every single Windows operating system that's ever been released - and why would they do it any different? Perhaps there would be cause for concern if the general public knew anything of anything about computers, but they don't. Techies complain about it simply because we know that's not the "proper" way to develop software - but we only represent a small percentage of the population. Companies don't care about small percentages, they care about hitting the biggest percentage they can, first and foremost - and that is the general computer user who wants the flashiest, nicest looking, and newest thing on the market.

Microsoft is a business, and any business ought to know there are 3 main types of buyers :

Group 1 "It's new! Gotta get it now!"
Group 2 "I'll get it when the price comes down, and maybe get some reassurance from my friends who have it to make sure it's a good product before I spend money on it"
Group 3 "Vista? What's Vista? Oh you mean that new piece of garbage that microsoft released that is bound to have bugs up the wazoo? Um, yeah you're nuts if you think i'm going to spend $400 on something that doesn't work properly. Would you spend top dollar on a car with a broken axle?"

Microsoft plays this very well. Frankly, I belong to group #3. All technology is over-priced when it's first released, and in the case of Microsoft - their technology is bugged when it's first released. I'm content with my XP right now, as I was content with my 2k until 2005, and my 98 until 2002.

Yeah, it will take over XP as the industry standard, as has pretty much every other operating system taken over its predecessor, but as it has happened in the past it will happen again - it'll take another year or two at least though.

Sincerely,
Mark
Oct 5 '07 #75
coolgames
169 100+
true, i agree with you Mark...

(no need to worry because, Microsoft won't stop support for XP until ~20years...
but, win2000 will be gone in 2011)
Oct 5 '07 #76
YarrOfDoom
1,247 Expert 1GB
...I'm content with my XP right now, as I was content with my 2k until 2005, and my 98 until 2002...
I wish I could do that as well, but when assembling my pc (something like a week ago), I had to buy vista, because sooner or later XP would be unusefull, as all support would fall away, not now, but in a couple of years or a bit more (eg. Halo 2). So now I'm stuck with this ***** ******* ***** OS.
Oct 6 '07 #77
coolgames
169 100+
I wish I could do that as well, but when assembling my pc (something like a week ago), I had to buy vista, because sooner or later XP would be unusefull, as all support would fall away, not now, but in a couple of years or a bit more (eg. Halo 2). So now I'm stuck with this ***** ******* ***** OS.

true but, that's in like 20 years...
also, since you have Vista, the SP1 (Fiji) is coming out like in January so, get ready for the huge download..

and, what is the OS you are talking about when you said ***** ******* *****


Coolgames
Oct 6 '07 #78
NeoPa
32,556 Expert Mod 16PB
He bought Vista ==> ***** ******* ***** = Vista :)
Oct 6 '07 #79
YarrOfDoom
1,247 Expert 1GB
He bought Vista ==> ***** ******* ***** = Vista :)
exactly .
Oct 6 '07 #80
drhowarddrfine
7,435 Expert 4TB
The Next Leap for Linux
Oct 6 '07 #81
hyperpau
184 Expert 100+
I agree with most of you. Replacement of XP is probably microsoft's goal. but til now, there has been a lot of driver issues

But XP will not be phased out for some time soon just like how they did it with windows 98 before
Oct 7 '07 #82
weaknessforcats
9,208 Expert Mod 8TB
I agree with most of you. Replacement of XP is probably microsoft's goal. but til now, there has been a lot of driver issues
Yep. Code that is sloppy gets past XP. Dies in Vista.
Oct 7 '07 #83
NeoPa
32,556 Expert Mod 16PB
Yep. Code that is sloppy gets past XP. Dies in Vista.
Doesn't sound like a very well managed project I would say.
Oct 7 '07 #84
coolgames
169 100+
Doesn't sound like a very well managed project I would say.

infact a BAD project..
Oct 8 '07 #85
Dököll
2,364 Expert 2GB
When I bought my new system a couple of months ago I actually paid extra to gave XP Pro installed rather than Vista. Apart from anything else most of my clients still use XP. Eventually I will have to partition my system to allow for Vista to be loaded as well (I have a home licence) just to test compatability.

I've also noticed we are getting more questions from members who are having problems on applications when moving them to Vista.

I would be very interested in the opinions and experiences of this community on this issue.

BTW, can we just accept that Linux is the best thing since sliced bread and keep this topic purely on windows.

Mary (digg it)
Greetings and salutations, Mary!

My honest opinion, you are a lot safer now without vista, still buggy.

You recently purchased a new system, correct!

Would you be able to wait, give yourself time to get as much as possible out of your current machine?

My guess is by say 3 to 4 years vista would have been a little less buggy and your machine would have packed up a few punches, would be time then to buy a new one, with vista installed. How's that for a deal?

What you have now is your baby, Vista will hinder and harm it, I have a good feeeling. You're safer the way things are now:-)
Oct 12 '07 #86
MMcCarthy
14,534 Expert Mod 8TB
Greetings and salutations, Mary!

My honest opinion, you are a lot safer now without vista, still buggy ...
Thanks Dököll, my view as well.

Will probably have to install Vista on a partition just to deal with compatibility issues but I can deal with that.
Oct 12 '07 #87
Killer42
8,435 Expert 8TB
As a Super Duper Moderator... no, wait... Site Moderator, yeah, that's it...

I'm issuing you all with a blanket warning about clogging up the thread by quoting the entire post to which you're replying.

Don't think this is actually in the guidelines yet, but it should be. Just quote enough to show which post you're replying to.

While you're at it, certain members (Banfa? mmccarthy? What are you looking bashful about?) ought to use a browser with an integrated spell-checker, and remember to turn the checker on. ;-)
Oct 12 '07 #88
Killer42
8,435 Expert 8TB
I hope none of my clients upgrade to Vista over the next year. I really don't want to have to explain the problems with multi user databases.
Explain the problems first - maybe they'll listen and avoid the whole issue.
Oct 12 '07 #89
MMcCarthy
14,534 Expert Mod 8TB
While you're at it, certain members (Banfa? mmccarthy? What are you looking bashful about?) ought to use a browser with an integrated spell-checker, and remember to turn the checker on. ;-)
Don't group me with Banfa. I'm not that bad.
Oct 12 '07 #90
I have had Windows Vista (TM) Ultimate 64 bit for about a month now. In the first couple of weeks, I regularly rebuilt my machine as I learned what not to do.

I haven't rebuilt it in a while I learned that
  1. If you have any possibility of installing to another location, do not install to Program files or Program Files(x86). Vista has this neat little feature of shadowing those directories so System programs see different files than you do. And if you think spaces in a directory name are a problem, try seeing what parentheses do to code. I created a C:\bin directory and put everything I could into there instead.
  2. Never, ever install the Logitech Setpoint driver. Every program that uses the mouse suddenly can't find anything on the screen (That one cost me a whole week, I thought it was an Eclipse bug)
  3. Most everything you could ever want to do is somewhere, but it is not obvious, and poorly documented. For example, if the default desktop icons are too large. just hold down the control key and scroll your mouse wheel to change their size. Of course, simply adding (or even mentioning) that option to any of the display control windows never occurred to Microsoft.
  4. Just because you are an administrator, does not meant you are an ADMINISTRATOR. you have to elevate your privilege to do most things as an admin. You can do this by selecting "run as administrator" on the context popup or checking the "run as administrator" option on the compatiblity tab of the properties page.
  5. If you are running an EXE program that was written for 32 bit (most of them, apparently) check the run as WIndows XP SP2 option on the compatiblity tab of the properties page.
  6. Most antiviriii are pretty bad. Get NOD32, its the only one that works properly.
  7. Use the Vista firewall until Comodo 3 is released. Nobody makes a properly working firewall for Vista Ultimate 64 bit yet.
  8. You need to use Visual Studio 2008, 2005 has issues.
  9. I can't get Python to work with the MSSQL driver. Python is built with Visual Studio.net 2003, and, as I said, you can only use Visual Studio 2008 (and no, it has to be 2003, they check).And Python doesn't compile properly on VS2008. Python itself does seem to work properly, but since I replaced Trac with Redmine, I had no need for it.
  10. I am having trouble getting DB2 users added. For some reason, DB2 isn't finding the user database in the native OS properly.
  11. Rhapsody doesn't work (DRM issues with Helix.) use Rhapsody.com or run XP in a Virtual PC instead.
  12. DIsk defrag is crippled. Run Auslogics free disk defrag (incredibly fast) instead.

On the other hand, the features like automatic backup are to die for. You don't need to shut off User Account Control, after a while, it stops being a bother.

And compatibility is not a problem in most cases., I have gotten MySQL, MS SQL Server 2005 and Oracle 10g working properly. I have apache httpd (64 bit ) with PHP 64 bit working properly. I have Tomcat and JBoss Portal working properly.I have Eclipse and MyEclipse running properly with a 64 bit Java 6 JDK from Sun.

If you do have a problem, run XP MIcrosofts latest Virtual PC 2007. It runs like a charm, and it gives you a true XP environment. I am currently running Windows XP(TM) Pro on a HP dv9260nr T2999 with 2 gigs (768 allocated to Windows XP (TM) Pro and it seems to run everything properly. I would suggest a 4gig machine though (unfortunately, a dv9260nr is limited to 2 gig, and it was all I could afford) I was able to even get 1400x960 resolution at 32 bits, though I probably would not try using it for games....

If you want to run Linux, use Virtualbox (VMWare has problems with unsigned drivers) I have Centos 5 running in a virtualbox with no problems. Well, I have to use NAT networking..I haven't had any luck with direct access yet, but then again, I didn't try very hard)

I have not noticed any issues with Java, Ruby, C# or PHP programming. C++ is, well, not exactly an issue, you expect problems with a language that has relative byte sizes for primitives and pointers, and so you have to be careful with that.

I haven't tried games (except for Google Flight Simulator on Google Earth (Which would have cut into my programming time if I hadn't learned not to sleep) but it seemed to run fast, considering the video card is only an old geforce. ) I do use the Hauppauge 1500 expresscard Analog/Digital TC DVR to Tivo a lot, works with my Comcast cablebox quite nicely, and barely registers on my CPU or disk.

I have heard reports that you may have problems with accessing over 4 gigs even on 64 bit, but I can't testify to that, I am stuck at 2 gigs max. Some people, I know, claim to have successfully used 8 gig of memory, so who knows?

Randy Gordon
Email: ******************
Websites: randyjg.selfip.org and there.thruhere.net (among others)
Oct 15 '07 #91
drhowarddrfine
7,435 Expert 4TB
Ok but can it still play solitaire?
Oct 15 '07 #92
Shashi Sadasivan
1,435 Expert 1GB
Ok but can it still play solitaire?
I did not install solitare, but its got chess (in 3d, woohoo), its got a paintbrush ball (kinda weird), and some purple poofy game (it will freak you out) :P

the chess is good (its got an undo action :D)
Oct 15 '07 #93

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