Coder Vs Programmer

[hirak1984]

this is an age old debate,who is more effective==>a coder or a programmer...
the definitions of these two terms are also are overloaded multiple times.
lets start with these in TSDN.
when should we be called a programmer and when a coder?
and what do you think is the difference between the terms?

[r035198x]

this is an age old debate,who is more effective==>a coder or a programmer...
the definitions of these two terms are also are overloaded multiple times.
lets start with these in TSDN.
when should we be called a programmer and when a coder?
and what do you think is the difference between the terms?

I don't see the difference.

This discussion is best continued in the software development platform, so I'll move it there.

[drhowarddrfine]

I agree they are the same thing. When talking about creating web pages, though, I tend to call people who "markup" pages with html/css, 'coders', to differentiate them from those who use programming languages.

[hirak1984]

[font=Verdana][size=2]do you mean that coders are for simple jobs,and programmers for a more high risk jobs?[/size][/font]

I agree they are the same thing. When talking about creating web pages, though, I tend to call people who "markup" pages with html/css, 'coders', to differentiate them from those who use programming languages.

[drhowarddrfine]

Not at all. A programmer creates a program. When you write html/css, for instance, you are placing elements in a textual page which is interpreted by a program. Sort of like taking photographs and putting them on a wall for display; but that doesn't mean you are a photographer.

[DeMan]

I think coders are starting to disappear. I think the essential difference, is that a coder is someone who simply writes code (and there was a time when that was more likely a hobbyist than a formally qualified "engineer/developer/etc").

A programmer, on the otherhand, is someone who is more closely involved with the whole SDLC, and is probably becoming increasingly closer to the role of an analyst.
That is, a programmer works on a project to some result, while a coder just implements solutions leaving much of the planning/documentation to someone else.

[Motoma]

I think coders are starting to disappear. I think the essential difference, is that a coder is someone who simply writes code (and there was a time when that was more likely a hobbyist than a formally qualified "engineer/developer/etc").

A programmer, on the otherhand, is someone who is more closely involved with the whole SDLC, and is probably becoming increasingly closer to the role of an analyst.
That is, a programmer works on a project to some result, while a coder just implements solutions leaving much of the planning/documentation to someone else.

I concur with this assesment, with the following stipulation:
A programmer understands the necessity of the mathmatical analysis of programs, as well as the provability of one.

[hirak1984]

WELL,DeMan makes sense

[r035198x]

I think coders are starting to disappear. I think the essential difference, is that a coder is someone who simply writes code (and there was a time when that was more likely a hobbyist than a formally qualified "engineer/developer/etc").

A programmer, on the otherhand, is someone who is more closely involved with the whole SDLC, and is probably becoming increasingly closer to the role of an analyst.
That is, a programmer works on a project to some result, while a coder just implements solutions leaving much of the planning/documentation to someone else.

I disagree to some extent. I just take them literally. Coders write code programmers write programs. You cannot write a program without writing code. So all programmers are coders. When you write code you are putting together a program so coders are also programmers.

[hariharanmca]

I disagree to some extent. I just take them literally. Coders write code programmers write programs. You cannot write a program without writing code. So all programmers are coders. When you write code you are putting together a program so coders are also programmers.

Programmer -> who write code and system design (Common Name)
( Program is a set of events).
Coders -> who write only code for problem.

i think you guys got it

[Frinavale]

I disagree to some extent. I just take them literally. Coders write code programmers write programs. You cannot write a program without writing code. So all programmers are coders. When you write code you are putting together a program so coders are also programmers.

Is a software engineer a programmer?

I've noticed that there is a lot documentation involved with engineering/programing a system. I've been told that software engineers don't even touch code because they are too busy creating/modifying the documents for the system's design.

In practice, a programmer plans the system and implements it. Thus, a programmer is also a coder.

In the university setting, we are told that an engineer plans the system and hands it off to someone else to implement it. Thus the engineer programs the system and a coder implements it.

Its way too hard to ignore the fact that in the real world a programmer plans and implements systems.

So, are programmers also software engineers?
Programmers certainly must design and analyze (engineer) the system they wish to implement before they start coding.

In this case why do "software engineers" exist?

[r035198x]

In this case why do "software engineers" exist?

To get more money than programmers.

[Motoma]

Is a software engineer a programmer?

I've noticed that there is a lot documentation involved with engineering/programing a system. I've been told that software engineers don't even touch code because they are too busy creating/modifying the documents for the system's design.

In practice, a programmer plans the system and implements it. Thus, a programmer is also a coder.

In the university setting, we are told that an engineer plans the system and hands it off to someone else to implement it. Thus the engineer programs the system and a coder implements it.

Its way too hard to ignore the fact that in the real world a programmer plans and implements systems.

So, are programmers also software engineers?
Programmers certainly must design and analyze (engineer) the system they wish to implement before they start coding.

In this case why do "software engineers" exist?

I guess to tackle this question, we could take a look at the hierarchy of CS objects:

Code
Program
Software

Software can be a program or many programs used together.
A program is made of segments of code.
Where you fit along the line determines your job title.

Sorry for the short answer, I just responded to thirty-two bazillion Flash questions, and I am not feeling as articulate as I did before doing so.

[DeMan]

In this case why do "software engineers" exist?

I sometimes wonder whether this is a matter of where you are in the world. I work for an American Company, and my title is "Software Engineer". The same role in a local (Australian) company would probably be "Software Developer".
When I was at school, and was deciding study options/career paths, neither of these titles were very common, rather "Programmer" and "Systems Analyst" were the catchy terms used. I always assumed that a "Programmer" was a "code-Monkey" and a "Systems Analyst" was his boss. These terms are still around, sure, but I'm not sure they still describe exactly the same role they used to. Systems Analysts these days are not necesarily IT qualified (and infact analyse Systems which aren't necessarily electric, and I think {though I've been wrong once or twice before} that this is sort of where Business Analysts came from....but I digress)

I think companies try to use terms like Engineer and Developer to highlight the fact that these days, most work on a development team requires you to be involved with most aspects of the Development Life Cycle (eg even testers should attend planning and design phases etc).

Like with anything, a term is defined by the way you use it, and while I'm flattered to be referred to as a Software Engineer, I'm not offended by being called a Code Monkey, or Programmer, or Developer, or Coder, or anything else because, at the end of the day, I'm not really sure how my job is different to any of those roles.

I go now, before I confuse myself.....

[sicarie]

When I was at school, and was deciding study options/career paths, neither of these titles were very common, rather "Programmer" and "Systems Analyst" were the catchy terms used. I always assumed that a "Programmer" was a "code-Monkey" and a "Systems Analyst" was his boss. These terms are still around, sure, but I'm not sure they still describe exactly the same role they used to. Systems Analysts these days are not necesarily IT qualified

I have a friend who is a 'Systems Analyst' and (though he is entry-level) he handles creating documentation and requirements, as well as determining those requirements with the customer (NOT an easy thing to do - working with both the customers and the programmers to find the balance between feature and feasability). I'm not entirely sure what those above him do...

[r035198x]

I have a friend who is a 'Systems Analyst' and (though he is entry-level) he handles creating documentation and requirements, as well as determining those requirements with the customer (NOT an easy thing to do - working with both the customers and the programmers to find the balance between feature and feasability). I'm not entirely sure what those above him do...

My job title is analyst programmer. I spend 14 hours a day writing code six days a week.

[MMcCarthy]

I sometimes wonder whether this is a matter of where you are in the world. I work for an American Company, and my title is "Software Engineer". The same role in a local (Australian) company would probably be "Software Developer".
When I was at school, and was deciding study options/career paths, neither of these titles were very common, rather "Programmer" and "Systems Analyst" were the catchy terms used. I always assumed that a "Programmer" was a "code-Monkey" and a "Systems Analyst" was his boss. These terms are still around, sure, but I'm not sure they still describe exactly the same role they used to. Systems Analysts these days are not necesarily IT qualified (and infact analyse Systems which aren't necessarily electric, and I think {though I've been wrong once or twice before} that this is sort of where Business Analysts came from....but I digress)

To digress ...

Because most of the systems I design are for business users I keep getting tagged with the Business Analyst/Developer label. I've never considered myself a business analyst. Maybe this is just an Irish thing. We love putting labels on people but we're not very consistent about it. It seems to change like fashion.

Mary

[acoder]

My job title is analyst programmer. I spend 14 hours a day writing code six days a week.

You are joking surely...

[r035198x]

You are joking surely...

I wish I were. I've been doing that for the past 8 months by the way.

I had a life when I started.

[DeMan]

.....And stil manages 18 posts a day!!!!!! (within those 8 months!!!!!!!!!!)

[r035198x]

.....And stil manages 18 posts a day!!!!!! (within those 8 months!!!!!!!!!!)

It's less than 28-30 that NeoPa has been going at.

[hirak1984]

well in our country we also have some special tags for coders or programmers,whatever...

like, I am System Engineer.
Above me is System architect .... and so on.
The guys who regularly help us learn new technology are known as Center Of Excellence..blah blah

There is a popular T-shirt quote here...
I AM A PROGRAMMOR,
I AM A PROGRAMER,
I AM A PROGRAMMAR
.
.
.
I WRITE CODES

funny huh!

[MMcCarthy]

There is a popular T-shirt quote here...
I AM A PROGRAMMOR,
I AM A PROGRAMER,
I AM A PROGRAMMAR
.
.
.
I WRITE CODES

funny huh!

I like it - have to get one made up.

[r035198x]

I like it - have to get one made up.

Sorry Mary. That's for programers only.

[hirak1984]

can try to write one specifically for mary

Sorry Mary. That's for programers only.

[r035198x]

can try to write one specifically for mary

No need for that. She actually is .......(my computer just froze)

[hirak1984]

need some explanation.....

No need for that. She actually is .......(my computer just froze)

[MMcCarthy]

need some explanation.....

r0 likes to challenge me on occasion. They do say sarcasm is the lowest form of wit. LOL

Sorry Hirak

You got caught up in an ongoing joke between myself and r0.

Mary

[hirak1984]

hey that sounds sentimental mary

r0 likes to challenge me on occasion. They do say sarcasm is the lowest form of wit. LOL

Sorry Hirak

You got caught up in an ongoing joke between myself and r0.

Mary

[Frinavale]

My job title is analyst programmer. I spend 14 hours a day writing code six days a week.

Since you're writing code so much, do you actually do any planning at all?

[MMcCarthy]

hey that sounds sentimental mary

Never- LOL

[r035198x]

need some explanation.....

Oh dear. You've got a lot of catching up to do.

http://www.thescripts.com/forum/thread576938.html

[r035198x]

Since you're writing code so much, do you actually do any planning at all?

Of course I do. When I'm going home, during lunch, supper, on my way to church, after church ....

Plenty of time for planning.

[r035198x]

hey that sounds sentimental mary

Not with Mary. Let's just say sentiments are not a part of her.

[MMcCarthy]

Oh dear. You've got a lot of catching up to do.

http://www.thescripts.com/forum/thread576938.html

LOL

That's not even the worst of it.

Have we hijacked this thread yet?

[hirak1984]

the answer probably is yes,lol

just joking,didnt mean it.

LOL

That's not even the worst of it.

Have we hijacked this thread yet?

[MMcCarthy]

the answer probably is yes,lol

just joking,didnt mean it.

Since it was your thread in the first place you can't hijack it so it's all r0's fault. I'm totally innocent of course.

[r035198x]

Since it was your thread in the first place you can't hijack it so it's all r0's fault. I'm totally innocent of course.

We were discussing programmers nicely until you came along and thought we were discussing programmed instead.

[AricC]

as well as determining those requirements with the customer (NOT an easy thing to do - working with both the customers and the programmers to find the balance between feature and feasability)

This is the part I dislike. I've noticed customers don't seem to do their research on what they really need/want.

[sicarie]

This is the part I dislike. I've noticed customers don't seem to do their research on what they really need/want.

And a lot of the time their wants aren't practical with their needs. This is why I dislike sales people, and why I have come to like (and hate sometimes), requirements documents.

[DeMan]

Now that this thread is (vaguely) back on track...

Far better idea to tell the customer what they need rather than asking what they want...
Clients want everything you offer, so never offer anything.....let them explain what they are after and dictate their needs to them, allowing them to add requirements, but not offering anything more. (without adding "if we've got time we could add beels and whistles, some dancing lights and flashing bares (or was that dancing bears and flashing lights?)"

[rhbt63]

Hi
i used to program machine language ie 165,35,174,01,220...... , so does this mean i was initially a coder to start with and was the task was complete and a program was formed i became a programmer.

things are never as stright forward as you think.



l8r


regards


rab

[r035198x]

Hi
i used to program machine language ie 165,35,174,01,220...... , so does this mean i was initially a coder to start with and was the task was complete and a program was formed i became a programmer.

things are never as stright forward as you think.



l8r


regards


rab

Before the task was completed, you were making a program so were a programmer.

[nmsreddi]

Hello

The job of a programmer is coding i dont think they are two diierent

[Motoma]

Hello

The job of a programmer is coding i dont think they are two diierent

I would assert that a Coding is a subset of Programming, and Programming is a subset of Software Engineering.

[hirak1984]

well that and what is the super set of a software engineer?please

I would assert that a Coding is a subset of Programming, and Programming is a subset of Software Engineering.

[Motoma]

well that and what is the super set of a software engineer?please

ME!!!



(you asked for it :P )

[DeMan]

And software Engineering is a subset of Engineering

[Motoma]

And software Engineering is a subset of Engineering

Or perhaps System Engineering.

[hirak1984]

and engineering is a subset of bachelors degree,or masters whatever

right?

Or perhaps System Engineering.