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The best platform and editor for Python

Hi,
For experienced with Pyhton users, which developing software and
enviroment would you suggest for Pyhton programming? Compiler+Editor
+Debugger.

Also what are your suggestions for beginners of Pyhton programming?
Thank you.

Jul 1 '07 #1
40 2118
Hello,

Emacs is the best for anything for me. Some people prefers Eclipse
with PyDev extension.

Build some real world applications with Python. Pick what do you need
from SourceForge or similar one then write it. If it is something you
need then you probably will make it more special then you found and
this will take you to the more coding and more...

By the way, thanks for winning Magny Cours grand prix Kimi... :-P

On 7/1/07, kimiraikkonen <ki*************@gmail.comwrote:
Hi,
For experienced with Pyhton users, which developing software and
enviroment would you suggest for Pyhton programming? Compiler+Editor
+Debugger.

Also what are your suggestions for beginners of Pyhton programming?
Thank you.

--
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Jul 1 '07 #2
On Jul 1, 10:30 pm, "Sönmez Kartal" <rainwatch...@gmail.comwrote:
Hello,

Emacs is the best for anything for me. Some people prefers Eclipse
with PyDev extension.

Build some real world applications with Python. Pick what do you need
from SourceForge or similar one then write it. If it is something you
need then you probably will make it more special then you found and
this will take you to the more coding and more...

By the way, thanks for winning Magny Cours grand prix Kimi... :-P

On 7/1/07, kimiraikkonen <kimiraikkone...@gmail.comwrote:
Hi,
For experienced with Pyhton users, which developing software and
enviroment would you suggest for Pyhton programming? Compiler+Editor
+Debugger.
Also what are your suggestions for beginners of Pyhton programming?
Thank you.
--
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -
Sa ol say n Kartal :-)

Jul 1 '07 #3
On Jul 1, 10:30 pm, "Sönmez Kartal" <rainwatch...@gmail.comwrote:
Hello,

Emacs is the best for anything for me. Some people prefers Eclipse
with PyDev extension.

Build some real world applications with Python. Pick what do you need
from SourceForge or similar one then write it. If it is something you
need then you probably will make it more special then you found and
this will take you to the more coding and more...

By the way, thanks for winning Magny Cours grand prix Kimi... :-P

On 7/1/07, kimiraikkonen <kimiraikkone...@gmail.comwrote:
Hi,
For experienced with Pyhton users, which developing software and
enviroment would you suggest for Pyhton programming? Compiler+Editor
+Debugger.
Also what are your suggestions for beginners of Pyhton programming?
Thank you.
--
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -
Thank you for the suggestions. Tesekkurler Say n Kartal :-)

Jul 1 '07 #4
On Jul 1, 10:30 pm, "Sönmez Kartal" <rainwatch...@gmail.comwrote:
Hello,

Emacs is the best for anything for me. Some people prefers Eclipse
with PyDev extension.

Build some real world applications with Python. Pick what do you need
from SourceForge or similar one then write it. If it is something you
need then you probably will make it more special then you found and
this will take you to the more coding and more...

By the way, thanks for winning Magny Cours grand prix Kimi... :-P

On 7/1/07, kimiraikkonen <kimiraikkone...@gmail.comwrote:
Hi,
For experienced with Pyhton users, which developing software and
enviroment would you suggest for Pyhton programming? Compiler+Editor
+Debugger.
Also what are your suggestions for beginners of Pyhton programming?
Thank you.
--
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -
Thank you for the suggestions. I'd prefer a GUI-based, helpful and
easy-implemention skilled enviroment. Tesekkurler Sayin Kartal :-)

Jul 1 '07 #5
In article <11**********************@q69g2000hsb.googlegroups .com>,
kimiraikkonen <ki*************@gmail.comwrote:
Hi,
For experienced with Pyhton users, which developing software and
enviroment would you suggest for Pyhton programming? Compiler+Editor
+Debugger.

Also what are your suggestions for beginners of Pyhton programming?
Thank you.
I'm very happy with emacs using python mode (http://www.python.org/emacs/).
It's a love it or hate it kind of thing. If you're an emacs fan, you'll
probably not want to use anything else. If you're not an emacs fan, this
is probably not for you.

There really is no separate compiler. It's part and parcel of the
interpreter. Your .py files do get compiled into .pyc files, but it
happens automatically the first time you run a module. No need to run a
separate compilation phase like you would with C or Java.

As for a debugger, I've honestly never found the need for one. I invest a
lot of time in unit tests, which smoke out most of the bugs. For what's
left, it's easy enough to stick print statements in strategic places to see
what's going on.
Jul 1 '07 #6
There is one tool you won't be able to live without: iPython (no, it's
not an Apple product, but it would be worth waiting in line for 3 days
for)
http://ipython.scipy.org/moin/

Jul 1 '07 #7
Thank you for the suggestions. I'd prefer a GUI-based, helpful and
easy-implemention skilled enviroment. Tesekkurler Sayin Kartal :-)
then first decide which graphical package you want to use,
because that limits your choice.

cheers,
Stef Mientki
Jul 1 '07 #8
On Jul 1, 10:59 pm, Stef Mientki <S.Mientki-nos...@mailbox.kun.nl>
wrote:
Thank you for the suggestions. I'd prefer a GUI-based, helpful and
easy-implemention skilled enviroment. Tesekkurler Sayin Kartal :-)

then first decide which graphical package you want to use,
because that limits your choice.

cheers,
Stef Mientki
I only have experience with Dev C++ for GUI and debugging based
programming for C/C++.
But i didn't know about Python.

So, like Visual Studio and Dev C++ similiar Python editor is welcome.

Jul 1 '07 #9
kimiraikkonen wrote:
Hi,
For experienced with Pyhton users, which developing software and
enviroment would you suggest for Pyhton programming? Compiler+Editor
+Debugger.

Also what are your suggestions for beginners of Pyhton programming?
Under Windows, take a look at PyScripter.

For students learning Python, we are switching from Scite to PyScripter,
good editor, online Python shell, graphical debugger with step by step,
showing variables values in popups and many other sympathic features...
test it.
Jul 1 '07 #10
kimiraikkonen wrote:
Hi,
For experienced with Pyhton users, which developing software and
enviroment would you suggest for Pyhton programming? Compiler+Editor
+Debugger.
I use standard CPython bytecode compiler/virtual machine, the Vim
editor, and standard pdb for debugging. Vim is nice as it's
multiplatform, has a built-in Python interpreter for writing
extensions, is free and lightweight. It's a modal editor so that's a
matter of taste--people either love it or hate it.
Also what are your suggestions for beginners of Pyhton programming?
Start with something like http://www.diveintopython.org for a brief
intro.
Pick a very small project and program it. Then pick something bigger
and do that. Once you're comfortable with small projects, find an
open-source project that you like and try to understand the code
enough to make some change you find useful; reading code is as
important as writing it.

Jul 2 '07 #11
On Jul 2, 5:10 am, kimiraikkonen <kimiraikkone...@gmail.comwrote:
Hi,
For experienced with Pyhton users, which developing software and
enviroment would you suggest for Pyhton programming? Compiler+Editor
+Debugger.

Also what are your suggestions for beginners of Pyhton programming?

Thank you.
http://www.wingware.com/ is pretty impressive but non-free of both
beer & speech varieties

Jul 2 '07 #12
On Jul 2, 3:49 pm, evil tabby cat <eviltabby...@gmail.comwrote:
On Jul 2, 5:10 am, kimiraikkonen <kimiraikkone...@gmail.comwrote:
Hi,
For experienced with Pyhton users, which developing software and
enviroment would you suggest for Pyhton programming? Compiler+Editor
+Debugger.
Also what are your suggestions for beginners of Pyhton programming?
Thank you.

http://www.wingware.com/is pretty impressive but non-free of both
beer & speech varieties
Thanks for the replies so far. Also i have to learn:

What is the most reliable and easy way to start learning Ptyhon?
Books? Trusted code sammples(where?)?

I know the importance and eases of Python quite.

Thanks.

Jul 2 '07 #13
Thanks for the replies so far. Also i have to learn:

What is the most reliable and easy way to start learning Ptyhon?
Books? Trusted code sammples(where?)?
I know the importance and eases of Python quiet.
Thanks.
Jul 2 '07 #14
ed
for my part, i'm a big fan of DrPython for writing python
code (especially on windows).
http://drpython.sourceforge.net/

you will need wxPython to have it running though

It's not per se an IDE but it
has a lot of feature to help you writing with some interesting plug-
ins.
You can launch code in the IDE, you have an inserted console etc.

Oh and it's written in python :)

../ed
Jul 3 '07 #15
In article <11**********************@n2g2000hse.googlegroups. com>,
kimiraikkonen <ki*************@gmail.comwrote:
>Thanks for the replies so far. Also i have to learn:

What is the most reliable and easy way to start learning Ptyhon?
Books? Trusted code sammples(where?)?
Jul 3 '07 #16
Thanks for the links and replies, taking care.

My another aim is: Can i develop graphical applications (like in
Windows) which contain menus, interactive dialog boxes etc. using
Ptyhon?

I got it quite but not sure. I don't know Ptyhon's capability skills
for creating interactive softwares like in Windows's created by C++ or
Delphi.

Jul 5 '07 #17
On Jul 3, 8:12 pm, cla...@lairds.us (Cameron Laird) wrote:
Python is simply easier than C++; you might
well find that a debugger, for example, doesn't feel as essential
as it is for you with C++.
That's what I love most about the Python community. Whenever there is
just a non-standard, platform-dependent or crappy implementation of a
feature you get told that you don't need it. When printf was good for
little David print is good enough for me.

Among the first things I examine about an IDE ( for Python ) is the
integration of a good REPL and how well recursive functions can be
debugged ( yes, I know, Pythonistas can't recurse and so it is not
recommended as well but sometimes ... )

Jul 5 '07 #18
Kay Schluehr schrieb:
That's what I love most about the Python community. Whenever there is
just a non-standard, platform-dependent or crappy implementation of a
feature you get told that you don't need it. When printf was good for
little David print is good enough for me.
That's a property of open source projects.
Features nobody really needs are not implemented.

Gregor
Jul 5 '07 #19
kimiraikkonen schrieb:
My another aim is: Can i develop graphical applications (like in
Windows) which contain menus, interactive dialog boxes etc. using
Ptyhon?

I got it quite but not sure. I don't know Ptyhon's capability skills
for creating interactive softwares like in Windows's created by C++ or
Delphi.
have a look at Dabo

http://www.dabodev.com/

Gregor
Jul 5 '07 #20
QOTW?

Gregor Horvath schrieb:
That's a property of open source projects.
Features nobody really needs are not implemented.

Gregor
Jul 5 '07 #21
On Jul 5, 1:23 pm, Gregor Horvath <g...@gregor-horvath.comwrote:
[...]
That's a property of open source projects.
Features nobody really needs are not implemented.
No, no, you got it all wrong. It's in *commercial* projects that
features nobody really needs are not implemented. Profit is
fundamental in convincing you that you really need the features.

On the other hand open source projects tend to lack features nobody
enjoys implementing.

Cheers,
Nicola Musatti

P.S. Maybe I should add a ;-)

Jul 5 '07 #22
In article <11*********************@w5g2000hsg.googlegroups.c om>,
Nicola Musatti <ni************@gmail.comwrote:
On Jul 5, 1:23 pm, Gregor Horvath <g...@gregor-horvath.comwrote:
[...]
That's a property of open source projects.
Features nobody really needs are not implemented.

No, no, you got it all wrong. It's in *commercial* projects that
features nobody really needs are not implemented.
No, no, squared. In a commercial project, the only features that get
implemented are the ones somebody is willing to pay for. Whether there is
any correlation between need and willingness to pay is an open question.
Jul 5 '07 #23
On Jul 5, 9:21 am, Roy Smith <r...@panix.comwrote:
In article <1183644537.859604.27...@w5g2000hsg.googlegroups.c om>,
Nicola Musatti <nicola.musa...@gmail.comwrote:
On Jul 5, 1:23 pm, Gregor Horvath <g...@gregor-horvath.comwrote:
[...]
That's a property of open source projects.
Features nobody really needs are not implemented.
No, no, you got it all wrong. It's in *commercial* projects that
features nobody really needs are not implemented.

No, no, squared. In a commercial project, the only features that get
implemented are the ones somebody is willing to pay for. Whether there is
any correlation between need and willingness to pay is an open question.
Then tell us, pray, who was willing to pay for the epitome of useless
features in MS Word, that Useless Features' Useless Feature, the
ability to format text with the animated effect "Marching Red Ants"?
I'm sure I paid for it, but it wasn't willingly...

-- Paul

Jul 5 '07 #24
Kay Schluehr wrote:
On Jul 3, 8:12 pm, cla...@lairds.us (Cameron Laird) wrote:
Python is simply easier than C++; you might
well find that a debugger, for example, doesn't feel as essential
as it is for you with C++.

That's what I love most about the Python community. Whenever there is
just a non-standard, platform-dependent or crappy implementation of a
feature you get told that you don't need it.
A fairly nice debugger is standard and built-in to the regular Python
distribution on all platforms.

But 95% of what a debugger is used for IME is getting a stack trace--
in Python (or Java or Ruby or most modern languages) you get that
automatically, and the debugger is nowhere near as useful as it is in
C or C++.

Jul 5 '07 #25
On 2007-07-05, Paul McGuire <pt***@austin.rr.comwrote:
On Jul 5, 9:21 am, Roy Smith <r...@panix.comwrote:
>In article <1183644537.859604.27...@w5g2000hsg.googlegroups.c om>,
Nicola Musatti <nicola.musa...@gmail.comwrote:
On Jul 5, 1:23 pm, Gregor Horvath <g...@gregor-horvath.comwrote:
[...]
That's a property of open source projects.
Features nobody really needs are not implemented.
No, no, you got it all wrong. It's in *commercial* projects that
features nobody really needs are not implemented.

No, no, squared. In a commercial project, the only features that get
implemented are the ones somebody is willing to pay for. Whether there is
any correlation between need and willingness to pay is an open question.

Then tell us, pray, who was willing to pay for the epitome of useless
features in MS Word, that Useless Features' Useless Feature, the
ability to format text with the animated effect "Marching Red Ants"?
I'm sure I paid for it, but it wasn't willingly...
You should count your blessings. At least it doesn't play
pinball any more. At least, I hope not.

--
Neil Cerutti
Jul 5 '07 #26
On Jul 5, 4:08 pm, Nicola Musatti <nicola.musa...@gmail.comwrote:
On Jul 5, 1:23 pm, Gregor Horvath <g...@gregor-horvath.comwrote:
[...]
That's a property of open source projects.
Features nobody really needs are not implemented.

No, no, you got it all wrong. It's in *commercial* projects that
features nobody really needs are not implemented. Profit is
fundamental in convincing you that you really need the features.

On the other hand open source projects tend to lack features nobody
enjoys implementing.
OSS projects have the healthy tendency to die silently. No one has yet
counted all the corpses.

Someone has mentioned Eclipse before and it somehow indicates that the
strongest distinction between an OSS project and a commercial one is
the property of being OSS.

Kay
Cheers,
Nicola Musatti

P.S. Maybe I should add a ;-)
This is a full ;-) thread. So it would be a bit redundant to mention
it - just like this meta-comment.

Jul 5 '07 #27
In article <11**********************@m36g2000hse.googlegroups .com>,
Kay Schluehr <ka**********@gmx.netwrote:
>On Jul 3, 8:12 pm, cla...@lairds.us (Cameron Laird) wrote:
>Python is simply easier than C++; you might
well find that a debugger, for example, doesn't feel as essential
as it is for you with C++.

That's what I love most about the Python community. Whenever there is
just a non-standard, platform-dependent or crappy implementation of a
feature you get told that you don't need it. When printf was good for
little David print is good enough for me.

Among the first things I examine about an IDE ( for Python ) is the
integration of a good REPL and how well recursive functions can be
debugged ( yes, I know, Pythonistas can't recurse and so it is not
recommended as well but sometimes ... )
You've made factual claims with which I can't agree.

If I understand you correctly, Pythoneers (to the exclusion of other
software workers?) are prone to misrepresent lacunae as irrelevant.
Perhaps I've done so in this case; perhaps I characteristically do
so myself, and need to examine my own judgment more closely. It
simply is not true, though, and even slanderous, to leave the
impression that the community as a whole wallows "fat and dumb" in
its rut of missing features. Py2exe, pyexpect, pylint, ElementTree,
and many, many other Python facilities we now take for granted didn't
exist at one time, and were recognized as important lacks. Old
comp.lang.python threads make this clear.

In writing this, I don't mean to minimize at all the merit of the
specific individuals who authored ElementTree, pylint, and so on.

You seem also to be saying that all Python debuggers are "non-standard,
platform-dependent or crappy". Is that truly your assessment of pdb
<URL: http://docs.python.org/lib/module-pdb.html >? Or are you focused
on the IDEs <URL:
http://wiki.python.org/moin/Integrat...ntEnvironments >, and
really see them all that way?

Anyway, I repeat my claim: I recommend to the original poster that he
consider learning Python in a style that's qualitatively different--
"lighter"--than his experience with C++.
Jul 5 '07 #28
On Jul 5, 4:21 pm, Roy Smith <r...@panix.comwrote:
In article <1183644537.859604.27...@w5g2000hsg.googlegroups.c om>,
Nicola Musatti <nicola.musa...@gmail.comwrote:
On Jul 5, 1:23 pm, Gregor Horvath <g...@gregor-horvath.comwrote:
[...]
That's a property of open source projects.
Features nobody really needs are not implemented.
No, no, you got it all wrong. It's in *commercial* projects that
features nobody really needs are not implemented.

No, no, squared. In a commercial project, the only features that get
implemented are the ones somebody is willing to pay for. Whether there is
any correlation between need and willingness to pay is an open question.
Ah, but you snipped the most important part of my post:
Profit is fundamental in convincing you that you really
need the features.
I mean, marketing is all about creating the willingness by stimulating
the perception of the need.

Cheers,
Nicola Musatti

Jul 5 '07 #29
In article <44***************************@news.chello.at>,
Gregor Horvath <gh@gregor-horvath.comwrote:
>kimiraikkonen schrieb:
>My another aim is: Can i develop graphical applications (like in
Windows) which contain menus, interactive dialog boxes etc. using
Ptyhon?

I got it quite but not sure. I don't know Ptyhon's capability skills
for creating interactive softwares like in Windows's created by C++ or
Delphi.

have a look at Dabo

http://www.dabodev.com/
Jul 5 '07 #30
I just wanted a simple answer to my simple question, however topic has
messed up. Think questioner as a beginner and use more understandable
terms to help :)

Thanks.

Jul 5 '07 #31
On Jul 1, 3:30 pm, "Sönmez Kartal" <rainwatch...@gmail.comwrote:
"Emacs is the best for anything for me."

Me too.

Also, as pointed out by some others, a debugger is not really all that
necessary for an interpreted language like Python.
Hi,
For experienced with Pyhton users, which developing software and
enviroment would you suggest for Pyhton programming? Compiler+Editor
+Debugger.
Also what are your suggestions for beginners of Pyhton programming?
Thank you.
--
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list

Jul 5 '07 #32
On Jul 5, 5:46 pm, "sjdevn...@yahoo.com" <sjdevn...@yahoo.comwrote:
Kay Schluehr wrote:
On Jul 3, 8:12 pm, cla...@lairds.us (Cameron Laird) wrote:
Python is simply easier than C++; you might
well find that a debugger, for example, doesn't feel as essential
as it is for you with C++.
That's what I love most about the Python community. Whenever there is
just a non-standard, platform-dependent or crappy implementation of a
feature you get told that you don't need it.

A fairly nice debugger is standard and built-in to the regular Python
distribution on all platforms.

But 95% of what a debugger is used for IME is getting a stack trace--
in Python (or Java or Ruby or most modern languages) you get that
automatically, and the debugger is nowhere near as useful as it is in
C or C++.
I am a Python newbie, but unfortunately I don't agree with that. For
me having a debugger helped understand very quickly the flow
in the libraries for which otherwise I would have had to navigate
through code (which once again is not always easy without a good IDE).

But this is just a newbie opinion :-),

../alex
--
..w( the_mindstorm )p.
Jul 5 '07 #33
Kay Schluehr <ka**********@gmx.netwrote:
...
half of the community is happy with Emacs and the other half wants to
program in a VS-like environment, neither consensus nor progress has
Calling all vi/vim users (and we'll heartily appreciate the support of
TextMate fans, BBEdit ones, etc, etc) -- we're at risk being defined out
of existence, since we're neither happy with Emacs nor wanting anything
like Visual Studio, and yet Kay claims that people in either category
make up the whole (one half plus the other half) and so that WE DON'T
EXIST!!! A ridiculous claim to be sure, but we'd better let Herr
Schluehr know that in no uncertain terms...
Alex

Jul 6 '07 #34
On Jul 6, 12:13 am, Alex Popescu <the.mindstorm.mailingl...@gmail.com>
wrote:
On Jul 5, 5:46 pm, "sjdevn...@yahoo.com" <sjdevn...@yahoo.comwrote:
Kay Schluehr wrote:
On Jul 3, 8:12 pm, cla...@lairds.us (Cameron Laird) wrote:
Python is simply easier than C++; you might
well find that a debugger, for example, doesn't feel as essential
as it is for you with C++.
That's what I love most about the Python community. Whenever there is
just a non-standard, platform-dependent or crappy implementation of a
feature you get told that you don't need it.
A fairly nice debugger is standard and built-in to the regular Python
distribution on all platforms.
But 95% of what a debugger is used for IME is getting a stack trace--
in Python (or Java or Ruby or most modern languages) you get that
automatically, and the debugger is nowhere near as useful as it is in
C or C++.

I am a Python newbie, but unfortunately I don't agree with that. For
me having a debugger helped understand very quickly the flow
in the libraries for which otherwise I would have had to navigate
through code (which once again is not always easy without a good IDE).
You don't have to be unfortune about it. As you see there is no
consensus. I don't even know how Java developers would respond to the
assertion that the debugger is halfway irrelevant because they can
read the stacktraces ( A real C programmer and real man can read core
dumps. So what? ) Java is often considered as Blub but it doesn't at
least deny progress in tool development of the last 20 years.
But this is just a newbie opinion :-),
I don't think so. BTW if you want to take a glimpse on the future of
"dynamic" languages you might also checkout this paper:

http://lamp.epfl.ch/~mcdirmid/mcdirmid07live.pdf

Kay
Jul 6 '07 #35
Kay Schluehr schrieb:
The problem is simply that the Python community has failed in this
respect. There are many platform dependent and ideology driven ways to
do deal with code editing / debugging but not actually a recommend or
"pythonic" way. Other than Smalltalk, Python has not created an own
Again, that's how Open Source or a Toolkit driven development (Unixy)
works.
For every problem there are 5 solutions. One size does not fit all.

It's no fault that for example Linux Distributions do not have only one
GUI but a lot of them. It's a great fortune.

Gregor
Jul 6 '07 #36
al***@mac.com (Alex Martelli) writes:
Kay Schluehr <ka**********@gmx.netwrote:
half of the community is happy with Emacs and the other half wants
to program in a VS-like environment, neither consensus nor
progress has

Calling all vi/vim users (and we'll heartily appreciate the support
of TextMate fans, BBEdit ones, etc, etc) -- we're at risk being
defined out of existence, since we're neither happy with Emacs nor
wanting anything like Visual Studio, and yet Kay claims that people
in either category make up the whole (one half plus the other half)
and so that WE DON'T EXIST!!! A ridiculous claim to be sure, but
we'd better let Herr Schluehr know that in no uncertain terms...
Bah, it's clear. Vim users are in the *third* half -- the larger one.

Anyone not already in those three categories can presumably find a
decent half as well.

--
\ "Intellectual property is to the 21st century what the slave |
`\ trade was to the 16th." -- David Mertz |
_o__) |
Ben Finney
Jul 6 '07 #37
On 2007-07-06, Alex Martelli <al***@mac.comwrote:
Kay Schluehr <ka**********@gmx.netwrote:
>half of the community is happy with Emacs and the other half
wants to program in a VS-like environment, neither consensus
nor progress has

Calling all vi/vim users (and we'll heartily appreciate the
support of TextMate fans, BBEdit ones, etc, etc) -- we're at
risk being defined out of existence, since we're neither happy
with Emacs nor wanting anything like Visual Studio, and yet Kay
claims that people in either category make up the whole (one
half plus the other half) and so that WE DON'T EXIST!!! A
ridiculous claim to be sure, but we'd better let Herr Schluehr
know that in no uncertain terms...
Wow! That explains why I had so much trouble eating me Wheaties
this morning.

Can I still post messages if I don't exist?

--
Neil Cerutti
Jul 6 '07 #38
Alex Martelli <al***@mac.comwrote:
Calling all vi/vim users (and we'll heartily appreciate the support of
TextMate fans, BBEdit ones, etc, etc) -- we're at risk being defined out
of existence, since we're neither happy with Emacs nor wanting anything
like Visual Studio, and yet Kay claims that people in either category
make up the whole (one half plus the other half) and so that WE DON'T
EXIST!!! A ridiculous claim to be sure, but we'd better let Herr
Schluehr know that in no uncertain terms...
vi/vim/gvim user here... :)
Jul 6 '07 #39
Nicola Musatti wrote:
It's in *commercial* projects that
features nobody really needs are not implemented. Profit is
fundamental in convincing you that you really need the features.
In Soviet Russia, you don't need features, features need *you*.

--
Greg
Jul 10 '07 #40
al***@mac.com (Alex Martelli) writes:
Kay Schluehr <ka**********@gmx.netwrote:
>half of the community is happy with Emacs and the other half wants to
program in a VS-like environment, neither consensus nor progress has
Calling all vi/vim users (and we'll heartily appreciate the support
of TextMate fans, BBEdit ones, etc, etc) -- we're at risk being
defined out of existence, since we're neither happy with Emacs
That's because the Emacs users are the only ones who matter.

|>oug
Jul 10 '07 #41

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