Pyro stability

Irmen de Jong wrote:

writeson wrote:

>Irmen,

Thanks, you're very good about answering Pyro related questions!

Well, I do have an advantage here, being Pyro's author.

And I don't know if you get this enough... but thanks. Pyro is fucking
amazing and has been a great help to a couple of our projects.

-carl

--

Carl J. Van Arsdall
cv*********@mvista.com
Build and Release
MontaVista Software

Nov 7 '06 #5

Beliavsky

Carl J. Van Arsdall wrote:

<snip>

Pyro is fucking amazing and has been a great help to a couple of our projects.

You should watch your language in a forum with thousands of readers.

Nov 7 '06 #6

Paul Boddie

Beliavsky wrote:

Carl J. Van Arsdall wrote:

[Enthusiasm for Pyro, not for those with sensitivity to rude words]

You should watch your language in a forum with thousands of readers.

It was quite an endorsement, though. ;-)

Paul

Nov 7 '06 #7

Paul Boddie wrote:

Beliavsky wrote:

>Carl J. Van Arsdall wrote:

[Enthusiasm for Pyro, not for those with sensitivity to rude words]

>You should watch your language in a forum with thousands of readers.

I think you should find better things to complain about and not worry
about language usage so much.

-c

--

Carl J. Van Arsdall
cv*********@mvista.com
Build and Release
MontaVista Software

Nov 7 '06 #8

On Mon, 2006-11-06 at 18:20 -0800, Beliavsky wrote:

Carl J. Van Arsdall wrote:

<snip>

Pyro is fucking amazing and has been a great help to a couple of our projects.

You should watch your language in a forum with thousands of readers.

The LA Times had a story that claimed that 64% of U.S. citizens use the
word "fuck" and that 74% of us have heard it in public (I'll assume the
remainder are your fellow AOL users). I expect extrapolating these
results worldwide wouldn't be far off the mark (the Brits were quite
successful at spreading this versatile word).

I think the gap between what people actually find offensive and what
people are afraid others will find offensive is pretty wide indeed.

Regards,
Cliff

Nov 7 '06 #9

Steve Holden

Carl J. Van Arsdall wrote:

Paul Boddie wrote:

>>Beliavsky wrote:

>>>Carl J. Van Arsdall wrote:

[Enthusiasm for Pyro, not for those with sensitivity to rude words]

>>>You should watch your language in a forum with thousands of readers.

I think you should find better things to complain about and not worry
about language usage so much.

It didn't seem like an unreasonable request to me, though I concede that
you aren't (yet :-) known throughout Usenet for your profanity.

regards
Steve
--
Steve Holden +44 150 684 7255 +1 800 494 3119
Holden Web LLC/Ltd http://www.holdenweb.com
Skype: holdenweb http://holdenweb.blogspot.com
Recent Ramblings http://del.icio.us/steve.holden

Nov 7 '06 #10

John Henry

Being a non-professional programmer, I've managed to use Pyro to do
what I need to do with very minimal fuss. In fact, I don't even
understand a lot of what's under the cover. All I did was to mimic
what one of the sample program is doing and adapted it to my need.

So far I am very happy with Pyro.

And no, I don't need to use profanity to describe to you how amazing I
think Pyro is. :=)

writeson wrote:

Hi all,

At work I'm considering proposing a solution for our distributed
processing system (a web based shopping cart that feeds an actual
printing production line) based on Pyro. I've done some minor
experiments with this and Pyro looks interesting and like a good
implementation of what I want. I've got a couple of questions though:

1) Has anyone had any experience with Pyro, and if so, have you had
any stability, or memory use issues running Pyro servers or nameservers
on the various participating computers? (We have a mixed environment of
Linux and Windows, but will be heading to an all Linux (RedHat)
environment soon.

2) One of the guys I work with is more inclined to set up XMLRPC
communication between the processes, and he is also leery of running
daemon processes. His solution is to have essentially Python CGI code
that responds to the various XMLRPC requests. Does anyone have any
opinions on this? I know what mine are already. :)

3) I've considered using CORBA, which is more powerful, and certainly
faster, but it's complexity to set up compared to the rather simple
work I'm trying to do seems prohibative. Does anyone have any thoughts
on this?

Thanks in advance,
Doug

Nov 7 '06 #11

Steve Holden wrote:

Carl J. Van Arsdall wrote:

>Paul Boddie wrote:

>>Beliavsky wrote:

Carl J. Van Arsdall wrote:
[Enthusiasm for Pyro, not for those with sensitivity to rude words]

You should watch your language in a forum with thousands of readers.

I think you should find better things to complain about and not worry
about language usage so much.

It didn't seem like an unreasonable request to me, though I concede that
you aren't (yet :-) known throughout Usenet for your profanity.

Well, I wouldn't want to be known for it, but some technologies are just
so A+mazing that I can't contain myself. Pyro happens to be one of
those great things where profanity *is* necessary. I would never want
to cheapen my emotion by leaving out colorful language ;)

--

Carl J. Van Arsdall
cv*********@mvista.com
Build and Release
MontaVista Software

Nov 7 '06 #12

Beliavsky

Cliff Wells wrote:

On Mon, 2006-11-06 at 18:20 -0800, Beliavsky wrote:
Carl J. Van Arsdall wrote:

<snip>

Pyro is fucking amazing and has been a great help to a couple of our projects.
You should watch your language in a forum with thousands of readers.

The LA Times had a story that claimed that 64% of U.S. citizens use the
word "fuck" and that 74% of us have heard it in public (I'll assume the
remainder are your fellow AOL users). I expect extrapolating these
results worldwide wouldn't be far off the mark (the Brits were quite
successful at spreading this versatile word).

If this is supposed to justify using bad language in a public forum, it
is poorly reasoned. Having heard "f***" does not mean they were not
annoyed. 100% of people have seen trash on the street, but that does
not justify littering. If a group of people don't mind profanity, there
is no harm in their swearing to each other. But Usenet is read by a
wide range of people, and needlessly offending some of them is wrong.
The OP used "f******" just for emphasis. English is a rich language,
and there are better ways of doing that.

Nov 8 '06 #13

Aahz

In article <11*********************@h48g2000cwc.googlegroups. com>,
Beliavsky <be*******@aol.comwrote:

>
If this is supposed to justify using bad language in a public forum,
it is poorly reasoned. Having heard "f***" does not mean they were not
annoyed. 100% of people have seen trash on the street, but that does
not justify littering. If a group of people don't mind profanity, there
is no harm in their swearing to each other. But Usenet is read by a
wide range of people, and needlessly offending some of them is wrong.
The OP used "f******" just for emphasis. English is a rich language,
and there are better ways of doing that.

Oh, gimme a fucking break. Do a simple Gooja search to find out how
often people already use "fuck" around here. I think you're the one who
needs to justify your position.
--
Aahz (aa**@pythoncraft.com) <* http://www.pythoncraft.com/

"In many ways, it's a dull language, borrowing solid old concepts from
many other languages & styles: boring syntax, unsurprising semantics,
few automatic coercions, etc etc. But that's one of the things I like
about it." --Tim Peters on Python, 16 Sep 1993

Nov 8 '06 #14

Chaz Ginger

Aahz wrote:

In article <11*********************@h48g2000cwc.googlegroups. com>,
Beliavsky <be*******@aol.comwrote:
>If this is supposed to justify using bad language in a public forum,
it is poorly reasoned. Having heard "f***" does not mean they were not
annoyed. 100% of people have seen trash on the street, but that does
not justify littering. If a group of people don't mind profanity, there
is no harm in their swearing to each other. But Usenet is read by a
wide range of people, and needlessly offending some of them is wrong.
The OP used "f******" just for emphasis. English is a rich language,
and there are better ways of doing that.

Oh, gimme a fucking break. Do a simple Gooja search to find out how
often people already use "fuck" around here. I think you're the one who
needs to justify your position.

Let me recommend something: take this thread off line. First, if you
have an issue with the language, talk to the person via email. Secondly
let's not let this get out of hand. All opinions are personal. Only one
really matters in this group: it is supposed to be about PYTHON. Get it?

Chaz

Nov 8 '06 #15

"Some guy hit my fender, and I said to him, 'Be fruitful and multiply,'
but not in those words." --Woody Allen

"Language is a virus from outer space." --William Burroughs

Nov 8 '06 #16

Chaz Ginger wrote:

>it is supposed to be about PYTHON. Get it?

I agree. And Python is an extremely serious matter calling for decorum
and propriety.

Don't say fuck, ni, peng, or ni-wom.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Knights_who_say_Ni

rd

Nov 8 '06 #17

Chaz Ginger wrote:

>it is supposed to be about PYTHON. Get it?

I agree. And Python is an extremely serious matter calling for decorum
and propriety.

Don't say fuck, ni, peng, or ni-wom.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Knights_who_say_Ni

rd

Nov 8 '06 #18

skip

BeliavskyEnglish is a rich language, and there are better ways of
Beliavskydoing that.

aahzOh, gimme a fucking break.

I'm with Beliavsky on this one. I can't see any particular reason to curse
in a forum such as c.l.py. It just coarsens the discussion with no obvious
positive benefit as far as I can see.

Skip

Nov 8 '06 #19

On Wed, 2006-11-08 at 06:49 -0800, Beliavsky wrote:

Cliff Wells wrote:

The LA Times had a story that claimed that 64% of U.S. citizens use the
word "fuck" and that 74% of us have heard it in public (I'll assume the
remainder are your fellow AOL users). I expect extrapolating these
results worldwide wouldn't be far off the mark (the Brits were quite
successful at spreading this versatile word).

If this is supposed to justify using bad language in a public forum, it
is poorly reasoned. Having heard "f***" does not mean they were not
annoyed.
100% of people have seen trash on the street, but that does
not justify littering.

Poorly reasoned or not, it was clearly poorly read, since the article I
mentioned also claimed that the majority of people also used the word.
Odd, I'd think with your selective reading skills you'd simply be able
to ignore words you don't like.

Regardless, I think the idea that certain words are profanity is fairly
silly. They are words. It's the meaning and intent behind them that
can be offensive. If someone says "fuck off" then I'd expect you to be
offended *since that was the intent of the message* (of course if you
manage to not be offended then that makes you the better man, but
apparently that's rarely strived for). On the other hand if someone
says "that's fucking great" in a positive way and you are offended by
it, well I'd say that's *your* problem and your best bet is to turn off
your TV, your PC, your radio, stop reading and try to limit interactions
with other people lest you be overwhelmed by how they really speak and
act.

If a group of people don't mind profanity, there
is no harm in their swearing to each other. But Usenet is read by a
wide range of people, and needlessly offending some of them is wrong.

I halfway agree with you. I tend to limit my profanity in public forums
and when speaking to strangers, etc. On the other hand, when in public
I also expect to hear that language from others and am not offended by
it.

And expecting anyone to escape without offense on Usenet is pretty
unrealistic.

The OP used "f******" just for emphasis. English is a rich language,
and there are better ways of doing that.

Hm, lots of people disagree with you. In fact, simply because that word
*does* happen to be less widely used in this group it gave it extra
emphasis and was probably the most effective word he could have used in
this particular instance. I don't think anyone here will have forgotten
his endorsement anytime soon.

Incidentally, using **** to disguise "profanity" when the intended word
is perfectly understood is pretty silly too. I strongly suspect you'd
be just as offended if I said "f*** off" as if I'd typed it out. Once
again, intent and meaning are what matter rather than a particular
sequence of characters.

Regards,
Cliff

Nov 8 '06 #20

sk**@pobox.com wrote:

I'm with Beliavsky on this one. I can't see any particular reason to curse
in a forum such as c.l.py. It just coarsens the discussion with no obvious
positive benefit as far as I can see.

All true. But it's like picking your nose. Yes, it's bad manners in
public, but if somebody does it, why jump on it and call attention to
it? It just makes the thread three times longer. It's easier and more
efficient to just ignore it.

I say this after posting three messages on the topic :)

rd

Nov 8 '06 #21

BartlebyScrivener wrote:

Chaz Ginger wrote:

>>it is supposed to be about PYTHON. Get it?

I agree. And Python is an extremely serious matter calling for decorum
and propriety.

Lol, is it really now? And I suppose its your definition of decorum and
not mine right? Things like that are always relative. I think decorum
would state that you should be an adult and not make a big deal out of
nothing. But that's just me, and as I said, its all relative.

(and honestly, if you thought the word fuck was bad, you should really
be offended by my profanity-free statement above).

-c
--

Carl J. Van Arsdall
cv*********@mvista.com
Build and Release
MontaVista Software

Nov 8 '06 #22

On Wed, 2006-11-08 at 10:12 -0800, Carl J. Van Arsdall wrote:

BartlebyScrivener wrote:

I agree. And Python is an extremely serious matter calling for decorum
and propriety.
Lol, is it really now? And I suppose its your definition of decorum and
not mine right? Things like that are always relative. I think decorum
would state that you should be an adult and not make a big deal out of
nothing. But that's just me, and as I said, its all relative.

I think you missed the irony in his statement (or perhaps confused
BartlebyScrivener with Beliavsky, who was the original plaintiff).

Regards,
Cliff

Nov 8 '06 #23

olsongt

BartlebyScrivener wrote:

Chaz Ginger wrote:

it is supposed to be about PYTHON. Get it?

I agree. And Python is an extremely serious matter calling for decorum
and propriety.

Don't say fuck, ni, peng, or ni-wom.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Knights_who_say_Ni

rd

Does using foobar in examples count as profanity?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foobar

Nov 8 '06 #24

Cliff Wells wrote:

On Wed, 2006-11-08 at 10:12 -0800, Carl J. Van Arsdall wrote:

>BartlebyScrivener wrote:

>>I agree. And Python is an extremely serious matter calling for decorum
and propriety.

Lol, is it really now? And I suppose its your definition of decorum and
not mine right? Things like that are always relative. I think decorum
would state that you should be an adult and not make a big deal out of
nothing. But that's just me, and as I said, its all relative.

I think you missed the irony in his statement (or perhaps confused
BartlebyScrivener with Beliavsky, who was the original plaintiff).

Ah, yea, you are right. My apologies.

-c
--

Carl J. Van Arsdall
cv*********@mvista.com
Build and Release
MontaVista Software

Nov 8 '06 #25

Paddy

Aahz wrote:

In article <11*********************@h48g2000cwc.googlegroups. com>,
Beliavsky <be*******@aol.comwrote:

If this is supposed to justify using bad language in a public forum,
it is poorly reasoned. Having heard "f***" does not mean they were not
annoyed. 100% of people have seen trash on the street, but that does
not justify littering. If a group of people don't mind profanity, there
is no harm in their swearing to each other. But Usenet is read by a
wide range of people, and needlessly offending some of them is wrong.
The OP used "f******" just for emphasis. English is a rich language,
and there are better ways of doing that.

Oh, gimme a f****** break. Do a simple Gooja search to find out how
often people already use "f***" around here. I think you're the one who
needs to justify your position.
--
Aahz (aa**@pythoncraft.com) <* http://www.pythoncraft.com/

I too know your wrong Aahz. The written word is not the same as that
spoken. People should make an effort to put across their meaning in a
clear manner. If I were going to an interview I would be very careful
about swearing and most likely not do it. People complain about the
friendliness and tone of groups, and mention it when talking about
programming languages.

Not everyone swears like Eddy Murphy in Beverley Hills Cop, and a lot
of those that do, would not do so when they want to impress, or
communicate with a stranger.

The tone of comp.lang.python *is* an asset, I think, to Python that
swearing will diminish.

- Paddy.

P.S. I did a google search and found 540,000 hits for python in c.l.p.
and only 121 for f***. thats less than one in a thousand. Lets keep it
that way please.

Nov 8 '06 #26

Paddy wrote:

Aahz wrote:

>In article <11*********************@h48g2000cwc.googlegroups. com>,
Beliavsky <be*******@aol.comwrote:

>>If this is supposed to justify using bad language in a public forum,
it is poorly reasoned. Having heard "f***" does not mean they were not
annoyed. 100% of people have seen trash on the street, but that does
not justify littering. If a group of people don't mind profanity, there
is no harm in their swearing to each other. But Usenet is read by a
wide range of people, and needlessly offending some of them is wrong.
The OP used "f******" just for emphasis. English is a rich language,
and there are better ways of doing that.

Oh, gimme a f****** break. Do a simple Gooja search to find out how
often people already use "f***" around here. I think you're the one who
needs to justify your position.
--
Aahz (aa**@pythoncraft.com) <* http://www.pythoncraft.com/

I too know your wrong Aahz. The written word is not the same as that
spoken. People should make an effort to put across their meaning in a
clear manner. If I were going to an interview I would be very careful
about swearing and most likely not do it. People complain about the
friendliness and tone of groups, and mention it when talking about
programming languages.

Not everyone swears like Eddy Murphy in Beverley Hills Cop, and a lot
of those that do, would not do so when they want to impress, or
communicate with a stranger.

The tone of comp.lang.python *is* an asset, I think, to Python that
swearing will diminish.

You are comparing interviews to usenet. I somehow see a disconnect. I
don't think many people are going to go to a potential employer and say
"hey fuck face, how the fuck are ya?" Yea, its not likely to happen, in
most cases people might even dress up to an interview and use all of
their professionalisms as to not appear as they would at home. However
communicating with people (cause that's what this is, its just people
talking to one another about Python and the health of this forum) should
be done as people see fit. Although you mentioned impressing people
etc, is it really important to impress people here by watching your P's
and Q's? What impresses me here is someone's command of the language, I
could really give a rats ass how they choose to disseminate their
expertise.

As its been mentioned before, its one thing for me or anyone else to get
in someone's face and be like "listen you little fuck, use a while
loop." But that was clearly not the context. Using an expletive as an
adjective does not diminish the "friendless" of the group unless you are
complete prude. Granted, there are tons of them, I think that the real
issue is that people need to learn to ignore things they don't like and
not be so *damn* sensitive. Meaning is clearly conveyed, people's
sensitivity is their own issue and I think too many people have gotten
way to used to the political correctness shoved down our throats by
society. Again, that's just my take on it, but those of you who would
be offended by my statements and use of colorful language to describe my
love of technology should probably just adjust your spam filters to scan
for my name or emails that use words you can't handle. Its kind of like
not watching tv shows that bother as opposed to raising a stink and
having them taken off the air.

Hopefully now the count is more like 124.

/rant

--

Carl J. Van Arsdall
cv*********@mvista.com
Build and Release
MontaVista Software

Nov 8 '06 #27

Aahz

In article <ma***************************************@python. org>,
<sk**@pobox.comwrote:

>
BeliavskyEnglish is a rich language, and there are better ways of
Beliavskydoing that.

aahzOh, gimme a fucking break.

I'm with Beliavsky on this one. I can't see any particular reason to curse
in a forum such as c.l.py. It just coarsens the discussion with no obvious
positive benefit as far as I can see.

Actually, I do agree that profanity "should" be avoided on c.l.py; what
I disagree with rather vociferously is having language police like
Beliavsky. I consider Beliavsky's offense far worse than the original
post.
--
Aahz (aa**@pythoncraft.com) <* http://www.pythoncraft.com/

"In many ways, it's a dull language, borrowing solid old concepts from
many other languages & styles: boring syntax, unsurprising semantics,
few automatic coercions, etc etc. But that's one of the things I like
about it." --Tim Peters on Python, 16 Sep 1993

Nov 8 '06 #28

On Wed, 2006-11-08 at 10:42 -0800, Paddy wrote:

I too know your wrong Aahz. The written word is not the same as that
spoken. People should make an effort to put across their meaning in a
clear manner. If I were going to an interview I would be very careful
about swearing and most likely not do it. People complain about the
friendliness and tone of groups, and mention it when talking about
programming languages.

But of course, this was never about "friendliness or tone". The person
who uttered the dreaded word was actually speaking quite positively
about Pyro. The complaint was about the use of a particular word, not
the intent of it.

Not everyone swears like Eddy Murphy in Beverley Hills Cop, and a lot
of those that do, would not do so when they want to impress, or
communicate with a stranger.

But of course "not everyone" is a double-edged sword that can just as
easily be turned against either party. If we limit ourselves to saying
what is going to be the most palatable for the widest audience we will
most likely find ourselves confined to discussing the weather.

And of course, people who worry too much about impressing others rarely
do. Just ask DHH of Ruby on Rails fame:

http://static.flickr.com/47/127984254_ddd4363d6a_m.jpg

Personally I find people trying to impose their personal beliefs on
others to be at least as offensive as any particular swear word and
about a million times as dangerous.

P.S. I did a google search and found 540,000 hits for python in c.l.p.
and only 121 for f***. thats less than one in a thousand. Lets keep it
that way please.

Well, I think that's a good point: the one instance we had that spawned
this thread fell well within this "one-in-a-thousand" boundary. So
there was no indication that c.l.py was in danger of turning into a
sailor's bar.

I'll apply an old software maxim (from sendmail?) to the topic of public
interaction: "Be liberal in what you accept, conservative in what you
send." Applying this would suggest that both parties were equally at
fault in this situation, so perhaps we can just leave it at that.

Regards,
Cliff

Nov 8 '06 #29

On Wed, 2006-11-08 at 11:18 -0800, Aahz wrote:

In article <ma***************************************@python. org>,
<sk**@pobox.comwrote:

I'm with Beliavsky on this one. I can't see any particular reason to curse
in a forum such as c.l.py. It just coarsens the discussion with no obvious
positive benefit as far as I can see.

Actually, I do agree that profanity "should" be avoided on c.l.py; what
I disagree with rather vociferously is having language police like
Beliavsky. I consider Beliavsky's offense far worse than the original
post.

I think this sums up my point of view as well (although I would have
used around 3215 more words to say it).

Cliff

Nov 8 '06 #30

skip

olsongtDoes using foobar in examples count as profanity?

olsongthttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foobar

Only if you spell it FUBAR, and even then it's a euphemism, so I think
you're safe. ;-)

Skip

Nov 8 '06 #31

skip

CarlYou are comparing interviews to usenet. I somehow see a
Carldisconnect. I don't think many people are going to go to a
Carlpotential employer and say "hey fuck face, how the fuck are ya?"
...
CarlAlthough you mentioned impressing people etc, is it really
Carlimportant to impress people here by watching your P's and Q's?
CarlWhat impresses me here is someone's command of the language, I
Carlcould really give a rats ass how they choose to disseminate their
Carlexpertise.

If recent news reports are to be believed (*) it would appear that companies
are starting to check out prospective employees online. Granted, most of
the stuff I've seen or heard relates to use of social networking sites like
Facebook and MySpace, but I'm sure savvy employers looking for programming
expertise would know to check out Usenet newsgroups and/or relevant mailing
lists. Anything you post is fair game though. Also, "command of the
language" can extend to the spoken/written word.

Skip

(*) http://www.nytimes.com/2006/06/11/us...&ex=1307678400

Nov 8 '06 #32