Tiddlywiki type project in Python?

[jkn]

Hi all
I'm trying out, and in general finding really useful, the various
TiddlyWiki variants that I guess many people here know about, for
organising my activities in a GTD way. One mild annoyance is in the
speed of the Javascript applications. I fancy having a go at writing
something like this for myself, where update speed would be a higher
priority.

I don't know Javascript (although it looks moderately simple from a
brief peruse, and I know enough languages to know I'll be able to pick
it up); however I do know and use Python, although not nuch in a
web-oriented way. Since unlike JS, python is at least pre-compiled, I
have hopes that this would make things quicker. I do appreciate that JS
is built into the browser, which might make my Python approach slower.
I'm not sure of the 'architectural' approach to this; any suggestions,
and maybe pointers to previous work?

Thanks in advance
Jon N

[bruno at modulix]

jkn wrote:

Hi all
I'm trying out, and in general finding really useful, the various
TiddlyWiki variants that I guess many people here know about, for
organising my activities in a GTD way. One mild annoyance is in the
speed of the Javascript applications. I fancy having a go at writing
something like this for myself, where update speed would be a higher
priority.

I don't know Javascript (although it looks moderately simple from a
brief peruse,
It's not as simple as it may seem at first look. There are some real
gotchas. But if you want a more pythonic javascript, you should have a
look at mochikit.
and I know enough languages to know I'll be able to pick
it up); however I do know and use Python, although not nuch in a
web-oriented way. Since unlike JS, python is at least pre-compiled, I
have hopes that this would make things quicker. I do appreciate that JS
is built into the browser, which might make my Python approach slower.
I'm not sure of the 'architectural' approach to this; any suggestions,
and maybe pointers to previous work?

I don't really understand what you're after here, since TiddlyWikiLikes
can *not* work without javascript.

Anyway, there's at least a Zope-based TiddlyWikiLike, so you may want to
have a look here:
http://ziddlywiki.org/

HTH
--
bruno desthuilliers
python -c "print '@'.join(['.'.join([w[::-1] for w in p.split('.')]) for
p in 'o****@xiludom.gro'.split('@')])"

[jkn]

Hi Bruno

[...]

I don't know Javascript (although it looks moderately simple from a
brief peruse,
It's not as simple as it may seem at first look. There are some real
gotchas. But if you want a more pythonic javascript, you should have a
look at mochikit.

OK, thanks for the pointer

[...]

and I know enough languages to know I'll be able to pick
it up); however I do know and use Python, although not nuch in a
web-oriented way. Since unlike JS, python is at least pre-compiled, I
have hopes that this would make things quicker. I do appreciate that JS
is built into the browser, which might make my Python approach slower.
I'm not sure of the 'architectural' approach to this; any suggestions,
and maybe pointers to previous work?
I don't really understand what you're after here, since TiddlyWikiLikes
can *not* work without javascript.

Well, that may be an/the answer, since another form of my question
would be 'how can I write a TiddlyWikiLike using Python instead of JS'
;-). I appreciate that it might involve, for instance, a local server.
Does the idea of embedding python in a browser instead of Javascript
make any sense at all?

Anyway, there's at least a Zope-based TiddlyWikiLike, so you may want to
have a look here:
http://ziddlywiki.org/

Thanks again

jon N

[bruno at modulix]

jkn wrote:
(snip)

Does the idea of embedding python in a browser instead of Javascript
make any sense at all?

From a purely theoretical POV, yes, this idea makes sens - Python could
be an interesting alternative to javascript for client-side scripting
(and I'd really prefer using Python for this - but I may be a bit biased
!-). But note that there may be some issues wrt/ significative
indentation and security.

Now the problem is that no browser actually supports Python for
client-side scripting. And I really doubt this will change in a near
future.

--
bruno desthuilliers
python -c "print '@'.join(['.'.join([w[::-1] for w in p.split('.')]) for
p in 'o****@xiludom.gro'.split('@')])"

[Diez B. Roggisch]

> Well, that may be an/the answer, since another form of my question

would be 'how can I write a TiddlyWikiLike using Python instead of JS'
;-). I appreciate that it might involve, for instance, a local server.
Does the idea of embedding python in a browser instead of Javascript
make any sense at all?

Nope. Not really.
Diez

[Paul Boddie]

Diez B. Roggisch wrote:

[Quoting jkn...]

Well, that may be an/the answer, since another form of my question
would be 'how can I write a TiddlyWikiLike using Python instead of JS'
;-). I appreciate that it might involve, for instance, a local server.
Does the idea of embedding python in a browser instead of Javascript
make any sense at all?

Nope. Not really.

While I think TiddlyWiki is interesting from the perspective of
creating sites that are editable in the browser without having to
install or configure server-side Wiki software (which many people find
intimidating, even if it's a ten line program that uses
BaseHTTPServer), the drawbacks are numerous: even moderately small
Wikis are slow since browser-based DOMs aren't designed for storing and
manipulating large documents; published Wikis can be edited and saved,
but their changes remain unmerged with the original unless you install
various server-side extensions, compromising the simple "all in one
place" storage model; last time I looked, production of non-Wiki,
navigable sites from TiddlyWiki wasn't supported unless you wrote your
own tools. A lot of the effort getting around these problems is
arguably better invested in coming to terms with installing some
traditional Wiki software.

But where I don't agree with a negative assessment of Python in the
browser is in one area that TiddlyWiki inadvertently illustrates quite
nicely: the ability to conveniently distribute a sandbox to other
people which has its own rather nice, widely-supported input/output
system. People have been more enthusiastic about virtualisation
recently: "safe Python" in the browser (or with other visualisation
front-ends) would be a good lightweight virtualisation solution of
sorts, I think.

Paul

[R. P. Dillon]

I've been doing some work on a didiwiki-like program written in Python.
Since Python is embedded in browsers, the didwiki approach make sense:
write the server in your language of choice (didwiki uses C), and lay
the necessary (simple) wiki code on top of the server. Roll the entire
thing into a single executable, and you have a personal wiki. The catch
is that you must run the executable before you can access your wiki, but
it is a small price to pay IMHO.

Anyway, I'll either GPL or public-domain my code when I'm finished with
it and I'll post it here. My hope is it will be as fast on a reasonably
modern computer as didiwiki is.

Rick

jkn wrote:

Hi Bruno

[...]

I don't know Javascript (although it looks moderately simple from a
brief peruse,

It's not as simple as it may seem at first look. There are some real
gotchas. But if you want a more pythonic javascript, you should have a
look at mochikit.

OK, thanks for the pointer

[...]

and I know enough languages to know I'll be able to pick
it up); however I do know and use Python, although not nuch in a
web-oriented way. Since unlike JS, python is at least pre-compiled, I
have hopes that this would make things quicker. I do appreciate that JS
is built into the browser, which might make my Python approach slower.
I'm not sure of the 'architectural' approach to this; any suggestions,
and maybe pointers to previous work?

I don't really understand what you're after here, since TiddlyWikiLikes
can *not* work without javascript.

Well, that may be an/the answer, since another form of my question
would be 'how can I write a TiddlyWikiLike using Python instead of JS'
;-). I appreciate that it might involve, for instance, a local server.
Does the idea of embedding python in a browser instead of Javascript
make any sense at all?

Anyway, there's at least a Zope-based TiddlyWikiLike, so you may want to
have a look here:
http://ziddlywiki.org/

Thanks again

jon N

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[R. P. Dillon]

That should have said "Since Python _isn't_ embedded in browsers"!

Rick

R. P. Dillon wrote:

I've been doing some work on a didiwiki-like program written in Python.
Since Python is embedded in browsers, the didwiki approach make sense:
write the server in your language of choice (didwiki uses C), and lay
the necessary (simple) wiki code on top of the server. Roll the entire
thing into a single executable, and you have a personal wiki. The catch
is that you must run the executable before you can access your wiki, but
it is a small price to pay IMHO.

Anyway, I'll either GPL or public-domain my code when I'm finished with
it and I'll post it here. My hope is it will be as fast on a reasonably
modern computer as didiwiki is.

Rick

jkn wrote:

Hi Bruno

[...]

I don't know Javascript (although it looks moderately simple from a
brief peruse,
It's not as simple as it may seem at first look. There are some real
gotchas. But if you want a more pythonic javascript, you should have a
look at mochikit.

OK, thanks for the pointer

[...]

and I know enough languages to know I'll be able to pick
it up); however I do know and use Python, although not nuch in a
web-oriented way. Since unlike JS, python is at least pre-compiled, I
have hopes that this would make things quicker. I do appreciate that JS
is built into the browser, which might make my Python approach slower.
I'm not sure of the 'architectural' approach to this; any suggestions,
and maybe pointers to previous work?
I don't really understand what you're after here, since TiddlyWikiLikes
can *not* work without javascript.

Well, that may be an/the answer, since another form of my question
would be 'how can I write a TiddlyWikiLike using Python instead of JS'
;-). I appreciate that it might involve, for instance, a local server.
Does the idea of embedding python in a browser instead of Javascript
make any sense at all?

Anyway, there's at least a Zope-based TiddlyWikiLike, so you may want to
have a look here:
http://ziddlywiki.org/

Thanks again

jon N

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Newsgroups
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[jkn]

Hi Rick

R. P. Dillon wrote:

I've been doing some work on a didiwiki-like program written in Python.
Since Python is [_not_] embedded in browsers, the didwiki approach make sense:
write the server in your language of choice (didwiki uses C), and lay
the necessary (simple) wiki code on top of the server. Roll the entire
thing into a single executable, and you have a personal wiki. The catch
is that you must run the executable before you can access your wiki, but
it is a small price to pay IMHO.

Anyway, I'll either GPL or public-domain my code when I'm finished with
it and I'll post it here. My hope is it will be as fast on a reasonably
modern computer as didiwiki is.

Rick

That sounds interesting ... thanks. I'd never heard of didiwiki and
from a brief browse it seems similar to what I have in mind. I will
download it and have a proper look at it ... & will be glad to hear
more of your project.

Regards
Jon N