Python IDE: great headache....

[Sullivan WxPyQtKinter]

IDLE is no longer satisfactory for me. Other IDEs make me very
confused. Really do not know which one to use.

I use WinXP sp2 for current development.

So far as I know, Eclipse + PyDev + PyDev Extension is perfect for
source code editing. Since I am really not sure how to use the debugger
module, I really do not know how to add watch to variables etc. Anyone
knows if this platform is a good one?

I hope that an IDE should be featured with:
1. Grammar Colored highlights.
2. Manage project in a tree view or something alike, ie, a project file
navigator.
3. Code collapse and folding.
4. Code auto-completion: especially prompting function parameters when
I am typing a function previously defined by myself. Like the one in
Visual Studio series.
5. Debugging: Breakpoints, conditional pause. watch for variables.step
into, over and out of a function.
What about other IDEs? Since I do not need GUI development. More over,
the free-of-charge IDE is highly preferred.
6.Indentation management like in IDLE: press ctrl+[/] to modify the
identation of a line or a block.

In addition, I have seen quite a few editors, which are definitely not
what I want.

Thank you so much for suggestions.

[Rene Pijlman]

Sullivan WxPyQtKinter:

I hope that an IDE should be featured with:
I use WingIDE 2.1.0 (beta1) and I'm pleased with it.
1. Grammar Colored highlights.
Yes, Wing does that.
2. Manage project in a tree view or something alike, ie, a project file
navigator.
Yes.
3. Code collapse and folding.
Yes.
4. Code auto-completion: especially prompting function parameters when
I am typing a function previously defined by myself. Like the one in
Visual Studio series.
Yes (well, hints in a separate pane, no prompting).
5. Debugging: Breakpoints, conditional pause. watch for variables.step
into, over and out of a function.
Yes.
6.Indentation management like in IDLE: press ctrl+[/] to modify the
identation of a line or a block.

Yes.

--
René Pijlman

[Michael Ekstrand]

On Sun, 12 Mar 2006 01:03:36 +0100
Rene Pijlman <re********************@my.address.is.invalid> wrote:

5. Debugging: Breakpoints, conditional pause. watch for
variables.step into, over and out of a function.

Yes.

I'll second the recommendation of Wing's debugging. Best debugger I've
seen, any language, period. Only 2 things that it's missing (and I know
of no debugger that does them): Seamless debugging across C/C++ and
Python code, and going backwards.

- Michael

--
mouse, n: a device for pointing at the xterm in which you want to type.
-- Fortune

[Don Taylor]

Sullivan WxPyQtKinter wrote:

IDLE is no longer satisfactory for me. Other IDEs make me very
confused. Really do not know which one to use.

I use WinXP sp2 for current development.

So far as I know, Eclipse + PyDev + PyDev Extension is perfect for
source code editing. Since I am really not sure how to use the debugger
module, I really do not know how to add watch to variables etc. Anyone
knows if this platform is a good one?

I hope that an IDE should be featured with:
1. Grammar Colored highlights.
2. Manage project in a tree view or something alike, ie, a project file
navigator.
3. Code collapse and folding.
4. Code auto-completion: especially prompting function parameters when
I am typing a function previously defined by myself. Like the one in
Visual Studio series.
5. Debugging: Breakpoints, conditional pause. watch for variables.step
into, over and out of a function.
What about other IDEs? Since I do not need GUI development. More over,
the free-of-charge IDE is highly preferred.
6.Indentation management like in IDLE: press ctrl+[/] to modify the
identation of a line or a block.

Sullivan:

Eclipse + Pydev does most, if not all, of your list - I am not sure what
you mean by conditional pause - plus a whole lot more. One feature in
particular that I don't think that I could live without is "Local
History" which automatically maintains a series of revisions of each
file whenever it is saved. This is coupled with a really nice built-in
visual diff that allows you to look back on what changes you have made
and restore them selectively. It is a bit like a built-in SVN or CVS
system (which Eclipse also has) but at a very fine granularity and
completely automatically. It allows you to be very agressive in making
changes to files because it is so easy to wind the the clock back.

I like Eclipse, but lots of folks on the Python groups seem to hate it
with a passion.

I think that the problem is that there are a lot of Eclipse concepts and
terminology that you need to know before you can use it at all - it is
puzzling to use right out of the box. This is compounded by the fact
that the Eclipse documentation and tutorials are aimed at the Java
programmer, and even so it still seems to be hard for Java programmers
to get started in Eclipse. So it is even more difficult for Pythoneers.
If you have used Eclipse for doing some Java work then Eclipse + Pydev
is a snap, except that you keep looking for some of the wonderful
features from the Java Editor that are not yet implemented in Pydev. If
you have not used Eclipse for Java then you are likely to give up before
you have discovered what it can do for you.

If you install Eclipse and try to use it without reading the Workbench
User Guide then you are not going to get anywhere.

The one major missing Python feature in Pydev is an integrated Python
Shell. Fabio has implemented a sort of shell in the debugger that
allows you to enter Python statements in the console when you are
stopped at a breakpoint - which is really nice. But you cannot use this
in the traditional way to develop Python scripts.

Don.

[gregarican]

Sullivan wrote:

IDLE is no longer satisfactory for me. Other IDEs make me very
confused. Really do not know which one to use.

I use WinXP sp2 for current development.

Personally I have gotten used to coding using ActiveState's Komodo. It
doesn't get in my way and offers the basic features I am looking for.

[SPE - Stani's Python Editor]

I've got used to SPE(editor)+WinPdb(debugger)

not surprisingly of course ;-)

Concerning the free-of-charge IDE's, things might change quite a bit.
You might have read this:
http://groups.google.nl/group/comp.l...ec4ae34efe16e2

Feel free to wiki on http://pyxides.stani.be

Stani
--
http://pythonide.stani.be

[Dag Fjeld Edvardsen]

I like PyScripter. It has some of, but not all, the
features you request.
http://mmm-experts.com/Products.aspx?ProductId=4

-Dag

[jussij]

> I use WinXP sp2 for current development.

You might want to take a look at the Zeus for Windows IDE:

http://www.zeusedit.com

Here is how Zeus stacks up to your check list:

I hope that an IDE should be featured with:
1. Grammar Colored highlights.
It does syntax coloring for Python.
2. Manage project in a tree view or something alike, ie, a
project file navigator.
It has a project/workspace feature.
3. Code collapse and folding.
It does code folding for Python.
4. Code auto-completion: especially prompting function
parameters when I am typing a function previously defined
by myself. Like the one in Visual Studio series.
The code completion in Zeus is driven by the information
provided by the ctags utility and ctags works better for
some languages compared to others.

The net result is quality of the Zeus code completion does
vary from one language to next language.
5. Debugging: Breakpoints, conditional pause. watch for
variables.step into, over and out of a function.
It does have a built-in debugger, but most likely there
are be better standalone debuggers :(
More over, the free-of-charge IDE is highly preferred.
Zeus is not freeware. It is shareware and has a 45 day
fully functional trail period.
6.Indentation management like in IDLE: press ctrl+[/] to
modify the identation of a line or a block.

It can handle Python indenting. It also has a block
indent/unindent feature (ie Tab/Shift tab marked areas).

Zeus is also fully scriptable an the macro scripts can be
written in Python.

Jussi Jumppanen
Author: Zeus for Windows

[BWill]

Dag Fjeld Edvardsen wrote:

I like PyScripter. It has some of, but not all, the
features you request.
http://mmm-experts.com/Products.aspx?ProductId=4

-Dag

Hey, that looks neat, and its open source too. Why have I not heard of
it? I can have Eclipse-style sub-window management without the hassle of
getting PyDev configured.

What features exactly does it not have?

[Joel Hedlund]

>> Anyone knows if this platform is a good one?

It's very good. It's comfortable, helpful and stable. Also looks good.

Eclipse + Pydev does most, if not all, of your list - I am not sure what
you mean by conditional pause - plus a whole lot more.
Maybe he means conditional breakpoints? PyDev certainly has that.
I like Eclipse, but lots of folks on the Python groups seem to hate it
with a passion.
Any ideas why?
If you install Eclipse and try to use it without reading the Workbench
User Guide then you are not going to get anywhere.

Woah, easy now! I never read any "Workbench User Guide" and I'm doing just fine with PyDev. Fabio Zadrozny (PyDev developer) wrote an excellent startup guide for python programmers that includes installing and basic editing:

http://www.fabioz.com/pydev/manual_101_root.html

It's all I ever read and it was enough for me to get going with Eclipse + PyDev within 15 minutes on a WinXP machine.

On a side note: with Ubuntulinux 5.10 it was more of a hassle, but that was just to get Eclipse running smoothly. I.e: an Eclipse/apt/Java problem. Once that was neatly in place, that guide above worked flawlessly.

Cheers!
/Joel Hedlund

[3KWA]

Vim + iPython does most of it doesn't it?

That's where I am after I became a bit frustrated with Idle (which I
still use on odd occasions).

EuGeNe

[Don Taylor]

Joel Hedlund wrote:

If you install Eclipse and try to use it without reading the
Workbench User Guide then you are not going to get anywhere.

Woah, easy now! I never read any "Workbench User Guide" and I'm doing
just fine with PyDev. Fabio Zadrozny (PyDev developer) wrote an
excellent startup guide for python programmers that includes
installing and basic editing:

http://www.fabioz.com/pydev/manual_101_root.html

It's all I ever read and it was enough for me to get going with
Eclipse + PyDev within 15 minutes on a WinXP machine.

Sorry to offend, I was just extrapoloating from personal experience.

When I was looking for a Java IDE I tried IntelliJ Idea, Netbeans and
Eclipse in that order. I found that I could use Idea and Netbeans
without reading the manuals, but I could not get going with Eclipse
until I read the Workbench User Guide and got the hang of perspectives
and views. Even installing it the first time seemed to be a mystery.
It is not difficult at all, just different. In retrospect, I don't know
why I found it puzzling but I have met others who have had the same
experience.

It has improved a lot recently, but even the Eclipse web-site was hard
to navigate. I think that a lot of the puzzlement comes from the fact
that the Eclipse folks present Eclipse not as an IDE, but as a framework
where one of the applications happens to be an IDE.

Don.

[Joel Hedlund]

> Sorry to offend, I was just extrapoloating from personal experience.

No worries, man. No offense taken :-)

but I could not get going with Eclipse
...
Even installing it the first time seemed to be a mystery.

Yeah I felt the same too when I first installed it. I had in fact given up using Eclipse, but then I found that starter guide I linked to in my last post. It really is excellent. It's thorough and to the point, and I really recommend it to people who are interested in PyDev.

Cheers,
Joel Hedlund

[Caleb Hattingh]

Hi

Being a Delphi user at work, I know what you mean :)

The best python IDE I have found is Stani's Python Editor (SPE), and I
think Stani himself replied to your message as well.

It integrates wxGlade, which is nice for form-building, although I don't
really do much of that with the python code I write.

My only gripe with SPE is that the memory usage, while SPE is running,
slowly climbs and climbs, and after several hours that python thread
running SPE is using several hundred megabytes of RAM. I usually just
restart it. It seems as if the effect is pronouced when running code
in the IDE.

Other than that, I now use SPE instead of Vim for python editing, which
is a big step for me. SPE is quite slick; some ways to go, but
certainly on the right track. The built-in code-completion is a godsend.

Hope this helps
Caleb

Sullivan WxPyQtKinter wrote:

IDLE is no longer satisfactory for me. Other IDEs make me very
confused. Really do not know which one to use.

I use WinXP sp2 for current development.

So far as I know, Eclipse + PyDev + PyDev Extension is perfect for
source code editing. Since I am really not sure how to use the debugger
module, I really do not know how to add watch to variables etc. Anyone
knows if this platform is a good one?

I hope that an IDE should be featured with:
1. Grammar Colored highlights.
2. Manage project in a tree view or something alike, ie, a project file
navigator.
3. Code collapse and folding.
4. Code auto-completion: especially prompting function parameters when
I am typing a function previously defined by myself. Like the one in
Visual Studio series.
5. Debugging: Breakpoints, conditional pause. watch for variables.step
into, over and out of a function.
What about other IDEs? Since I do not need GUI development. More over,
the free-of-charge IDE is highly preferred.
6.Indentation management like in IDLE: press ctrl+[/] to modify the
identation of a line or a block.

In addition, I have seen quite a few editors, which are definitely not
what I want.

Thank you so much for suggestions.

[Dag Fjeld Edvardsen]

> What features exactly does it not have?
Come to think of it, the only exception is probably that PyScripter (AFAIK)
does not provide conditional pause.

But I really like it. PyScripter is written in Delphi, my other favorite
language :)

-Dag

[Michael Amrhein]

Sullivan WxPyQtKinter schrieb:

IDLE is no longer satisfactory for me. Other IDEs make me very
confused. Really do not know which one to use.

I use WinXP sp2 for current development.

So far as I know, Eclipse + PyDev + PyDev Extension is perfect for
source code editing. Since I am really not sure how to use the debugger
module, I really do not know how to add watch to variables etc. Anyone
knows if this platform is a good one?

I hope that an IDE should be featured with:
1. Grammar Colored highlights.
2. Manage project in a tree view or something alike, ie, a project file
navigator.
3. Code collapse and folding.
4. Code auto-completion: especially prompting function parameters when
I am typing a function previously defined by myself. Like the one in
Visual Studio series.
5. Debugging: Breakpoints, conditional pause. watch for variables.step
into, over and out of a function.
What about other IDEs? Since I do not need GUI development. More over,
the free-of-charge IDE is highly preferred.
6.Indentation management like in IDLE: press ctrl+[/] to modify the
identation of a line or a block.

In addition, I have seen quite a few editors, which are definitely not
what I want.

Thank you so much for suggestions.

Give Komodo (http://www.activestate.com/Products/Komodo/?mp=1) a try.
Michael

[Dag Fjeld Edvardsen]

> Come to think of it, the only exception is probably that PyScripter
(AFAIK)

does not provide conditional pause.

Quoting myself :)

But now it does! Conditional breakpoints were introduced in the
new version released on the 14th of March:
http://mmm-experts.com/

-Dag