Yes, silly question, but it keeps me up at night. :)
I know it comes from the suffix -tuple, which makes me think it's
pronounced as 'toople', but I've seen (at m-w.com) that the first
pronunciation option is 'tuhple', so I wasn't sure. Maybe it's both, but
which is most prevalent?
Thanks! Now time to go back to reading the chapter on tuples...
62  20110 
John Salerno wrote: Yes, silly question, but it keeps me up at night. :)
Silly you!
I know it comes from the suffix -tuple, which makes me think it's
pronounced as 'toople', but I've seen (at m-w.com) that the first
pronunciation option is 'tuhple', so I wasn't sure. Maybe it's both, but
which is most prevalent?
No suffix involved, tuples have a respectable mathematical history going
back centuries.
Thanks! Now time to go back to reading the chapter on tuples...
"Tyoople", "toople" or "tupple" depending on who you are, where you grew
up and who you are speaking to. As with so many Usenet questions,
there's no right answer, only 314 wrong ones :-)
I teach on both sides of the Atlantic, and have learned to draw a mental
breath before trying to pronounce the word "router". Americans find the
British pronunciation ("rooter") hilarious, despite the fact they tell
me I drive on "Root 66" to get to DC. The Brits are politer, and only
snigger behind my back when I pronounce it as Americans do, to rhyme
with "outer".
except-that-there's-no-"t"-in-American-ly y'rs - steve
--
Steve Holden +44 150 684 7255 +1 800 494 3119
Holden Web LLC www.holdenweb.com
PyCon TX 2006 www.python.org/pycon/
On 2006-02-13, John Salerno <jo******@NOSPAMgmail.com> wrote: I know it comes from the suffix -tuple, which makes me think
it's pronounced as 'toople', but I've seen (at m-w.com) that
the first pronunciation option is 'tuhple', so I wasn't sure.
Maybe it's both, but which is most prevalent?
In my expereince, the latter. I don't think I've ever heard
the other pronounciation.
--
Grant Edwards grante Yow! Isn't this my STOP?!
at
visi.com
John Salerno wrote: Yes, silly question, but it keeps me up at night. :)
I know it comes from the suffix -tuple, which makes me think it's
pronounced as 'toople', but I've seen (at m-w.com) that the first
pronunciation option is 'tuhple', so I wasn't sure. Maybe it's both, but
which is most prevalent?
Thanks! Now time to go back to reading the chapter on tuples...
I'm not sure, but I think it is pronounced "ménage à trois".
M.
;-)
John Salerno wrote: Yes, silly question, but it keeps me up at night. :)
I know it comes from the suffix -tuple, which makes me think it's
pronounced as 'toople', but I've seen (at m-w.com) that the first
pronunciation option is 'tuhple', so I wasn't sure. Maybe it's both, but
which is most prevalent?
Thanks! Now time to go back to reading the chapter on tuples...
I believe both is right. Those who come from a pure mathematics
background are more likely to pronounce it _toople_. Those who have
encountered it in the wild are more likely to pronounce it _tuhple_. I
had enough of an understanding of mathematics to recognize where it came
from when I encountered it in Python, but I pronounce it the latter way.
Even in mathematics, a tuple, or formally an n-tuple, makes more sense
to me pronounced the latter if you list out the various pronounciations
for large n, seems me the _uhs_ outweigh the _oos_. (There's quadruple
on one side, but then quintuple, sextuple, septuple, heptuple, octuple,
etc., etc., etc.)
--
Erik Max Francis && ma*@alcyone.com && http://www.alcyone.com/max/
San Jose, CA, USA && 37 20 N 121 53 W && AIM erikmaxfrancis
We are victims of our circumstance.
-- Sade Adu
Grant Edwards wrote: On 2006-02-13, John Salerno <jo******@NOSPAMgmail.com> wrote:
I know it comes from the suffix -tuple, which makes me think
it's pronounced as 'toople', but I've seen (at m-w.com) that
the first pronunciation option is 'tuhple', so I wasn't sure.
Maybe it's both, but which is most prevalent?
In my expereince, the latter. I don't think I've ever heard
the other pronounciation.
I used to pronounce it toople. But the people that taught me Python
found it both comical and confusing. At first they thought I meant a 2
element tuple. So they wondered if a 3 element tuple was a threeple,
etc. After much harrassing, I changed my wayward ways and pronounced
it tuhple to fit in with the cool Python guys. ;-)
Then we went to hear Guido speak about Python 2.2 at a ZPUG meeting in
Washington, DC. When he said toople I almost fell out of my chair
laughing, particularly because the people who taught me to say it the
"right" way were with me. When I looked over, they just hung their
head in shame.
I work with Guido now and I'm conflicted. I'm still conditioned to say
tuhple. Whenever he says toople, I just get a smile on my face. I
think most of the PythonLabs guys pronounce it toople.
n
John Salerno wrote: I know it comes from the suffix -tuple, which makes me think it's
pronounced as 'toople', but I've seen (at m-w.com) that the first
pronunciation option is 'tuhple'
I went to university in Pittsburgh and work in Washington, DC. I've
only ever heard it as toople.
If I heard someone say tuhple, I'd probably thing of Iago's words to
Desdemona's father along the lines of "that ram is tupping your ewe".
But I'm easily amused by alternate pronunciations.
Dennis Lee Bieber wrote: On Sun, 12 Feb 2006 23:30:25 -0500, Steve Holden <st***@holdenweb.com>
declaimed the following in comp.lang.python:
I teach on both sides of the Atlantic, and have learned to draw a mental
breath before trying to pronounce the word "router". Americans find the
British pronunciation ("rooter") hilarious, despite the fact they tell
me I drive on "Root 66" to get to DC. The Brits are politer, and only
snigger behind my back when I pronounce it as Americans do, to rhyme
with "outer".
Strange... I never knew Route 66 got that far east... As I recall,
it runs (ran) from ~Los Angeles across the southwest before making an
upward turn through Missouri (where it passed just outside of Ft.
Leonard Wood) and there from meandered through St. Louis and up toward
Chicago...
The Route 66 that runs past Manassas and into DC appears to be a
completely different Interstate from the one made famous by the Chuck
Berry song, and I was really confused by it when I moved to the DC Metro
area.
Then again, from the "new world" perspective... A "route" is a fixed
path between points... A "router" is something that dynamically
determines paths -- so it may be seen as a different derivation...
{Or as I learned on my previous department: A pub's a bar, a bar's a
gate, a gate's a street}
:-)
regards
Steve
--
Steve Holden +44 150 684 7255 +1 800 494 3119
Holden Web LLC www.holdenweb.com
PyCon TX 2006 www.python.org/pycon/
Yeah, I was going to say it's "I-66," not "Route 66," which has been
replaced in pertainent parts by I-40.
tuh-ple.
In article <ma***************************************@python. org>,
Steve Holden <st***@holdenweb.com> wrote: I teach on both sides of the Atlantic, and have learned to draw a mental
breath before trying to pronounce the word "router".
It took me a while to get used to that too, but honestly, the warm beer was
much more difficult to deal with. It's supposed to be cold on the way in
and warm on the way out.
My other problem is that I'm into woodworking as well as computers. When
I'm mindlessly browsing news and see an article headline that says
something like "router bits", I often have to stop and think about in which
context I'm supposed to interpret that (a router is a woodworking tool,
into which you can fit a variety of cutting bits).
Markus Wankus wrote: I'm not sure, but I think it is pronounced "ménage à trois".
LOL. You guys are hilarious. I think I made the right decision to start
learning Python! :)
Erik Max Francis wrote: Even in mathematics, a tuple, or formally an n-tuple, makes more sense
to me pronounced the latter if you list out the various pronounciations
for large n, seems me the _uhs_ outweigh the _oos_. (There's quadruple
on one side, but then quintuple, sextuple, septuple, heptuple, octuple,
etc., etc., etc.)
That's kind of the ironic thing. When I first saw the word, I thought
maybe it was a Python-specific term (even something from a Monty Python
skit, even!). My default pronunciation actually was 'toople', but then I
looked it up to be sure and saw that it comes from words like quadruple,
quintuple, etc. Well, even then, I was pronouncing those words in my
head as 'quintoople', 'sextoople', etc., so that didn't really clarify
it for me! But I think 'quintuple' is probably the more popular choice,
which makes 'tuple' sound more correct, so to speak.
I still have a warm spot for 'toople', though, since that's what I
called it first, but somehow 'tuple' seems less silly (and less like
tupping!) :)
On 2006-02-13, John Salerno <jo******@NOSPAMgmail.com> wrote: Markus Wankus wrote:
I'm not sure, but I think it is pronounced "ménage à trois".
LOL. You guys are hilarious. I think I made the right decision
to start learning Python! :)
Of course! What did you expect from devotees of a language
named after one of the greatest comedy shows in TV history?
--
Grant Edwards grante Yow! Edwin Meese made me
at wear CORDOVANS!!
visi.com
Grant Edwards wrote: On 2006-02-13, John Salerno <jo******@NOSPAMgmail.com> wrote: Markus Wankus wrote:
I'm not sure, but I think it is pronounced "ménage à trois".
LOL. You guys are hilarious. I think I made the right decision
to start learning Python! :)
Of course! What did you expect from devotees of a language
named after one of the greatest comedy shows in TV history?
Well, I hope this doesn't make me lose credibility, but I've actually
never seen the show! I saw Holy Grail several years ago, though. But I'm
very curious about this whole cheese shop skit, so when I get home
tonight I'm going to download it. :)
John Salerno wrote: Erik Max Francis wrote:
Even in mathematics, a tuple, or formally an n-tuple, makes more sense
to me pronounced the latter if you list out the various pronounciations
for large n, seems me the _uhs_ outweigh the _oos_. (There's quadruple
on one side, but then quintuple, sextuple, septuple, heptuple, octuple,
etc., etc., etc.)
That's kind of the ironic thing. When I first saw the word, I thought
maybe it was a Python-specific term (even something from a Monty Python
skit, even!). My default pronunciation actually was 'toople', but then I
looked it up to be sure and saw that it comes from words like quadruple,
quintuple, etc. Well, even then, I was pronouncing those words in my
head as 'quintoople', 'sextoople', etc., so that didn't really clarify
it for me! But I think 'quintuple' is probably the more popular choice,
which makes 'tuple' sound more correct, so to speak.
I still have a warm spot for 'toople', though, since that's what I
called it first, but somehow 'tuple' seems less silly (and less like
tupping!) :)
No, no, no. The correct pronunciation is "tyoople" (or, if you're being
lazy, "choople"). Anything else is wrong, but we English are usually
prepared to forgive foreigners their ignorance :-)
[If I pronounced as badly as I type nobody would ever know what I was
saying].
not-that-we're-arrogant-or-anything-ly y'rs - steve
--
Steve Holden +44 150 684 7255 +1 800 494 3119
Holden Web LLC www.holdenweb.com
PyCon TX 2006 www.python.org/pycon/
Steve Holden wrote: No, no, no. The correct pronunciation is "tyoople" (or, if you're being
lazy, "choople"). Anything else is wrong, but we English are usually
prepared to forgive foreigners their ignorance :-)
[If I pronounced as badly as I type nobody would ever know what I was
saying].
not-that-we're-arrogant-or-anything-ly y'rs - steve
::eyes the Brits suspiciously::
And I thought there were only choo ways to pronounce it...turns out
there are free.
On 2006-02-13, John Salerno <jo******@NOSPAMgmail.com> wrote: Grant Edwards wrote: On 2006-02-13, John Salerno <jo******@NOSPAMgmail.com> wrote: Markus Wankus wrote:
I'm not sure, but I think it is pronounced "ménage à trois".
LOL. You guys are hilarious. I think I made the right decision
to start learning Python! :)
Of course! What did you expect from devotees of a language
named after one of the greatest comedy shows in TV history?
Well, I hope this doesn't make me lose credibility, but I've
actually never seen the show! I saw Holy Grail several years
ago, though. But I'm very curious about this whole cheese shop
skit, so when I get home tonight I'm going to download it. :)
IMO, it's not as good as the dead-parrot skit, but it's still a
classic.
--
Grant Edwards grante Yow! Yow! Now we can
at become alcoholics!
visi.com
Grant Edwards wrote: On 2006-02-13, John Salerno <jo******@NOSPAMgmail.com> wrote: Grant Edwards wrote: On 2006-02-13, John Salerno <jo******@NOSPAMgmail.com> wrote:
Markus Wankus wrote:
> I'm not sure, but I think it is pronounced "ménage à trois".
LOL. You guys are hilarious. I think I made the right decision
to start learning Python! :)
Of course! What did you expect from devotees of a language
named after one of the greatest comedy shows in TV history?
Well, I hope this doesn't make me lose credibility, but I've
actually never seen the show! I saw Holy Grail several years
ago, though. But I'm very curious about this whole cheese shop
skit, so when I get home tonight I'm going to download it. :)
IMO, it's not as good as the dead-parrot skit, but it's still a
classic.
Ah, now that one I have seen, and it is great! There's an episode of SNL
where they sort of randomly show that skit, which is a little bizarre in
itself. :)
John Salerno <jo******@NOSPAMgmail.com> writes: Yes, silly question, but it keeps me up at night. :)
I know it comes from the suffix -tuple, which makes me think it's
pronounced as 'toople', but I've seen (at m-w.com) that the first
pronunciation option is 'tuhple', so I wasn't sure. Maybe it's both, but
which is most prevalent?
I just checked my English dictionary, and for, say, "quintuple", it
suggests ['kwintjupl] pronunciation. I didn't check it before, but I
tend to pronounce tuple as [tjupl] indeed (in fact Russians would say it's
closer to [chjupl]).
-- Sergei.
On Sun, 12 Feb 2006 22:52:30 -0800
Erik Max Francis <ma*@alcyone.com> wrote: Even in mathematics, a tuple, or formally an n-tuple,
makes more sense to me pronounced the latter if you list
out the various pronounciations for large n, seems me the
_uhs_ outweigh the _oos_. (There's quadruple on one
side, but then quintuple, sextuple, septuple, heptuple,
octuple, etc., etc., etc.)
I doubt that helps much: I pronounce all of those words
(when I use them, which is not too often) as "-toopel". The
only tuple I pronounce with the "-uh-" is "couple", and I
usually call that a "two-tuple" when dealing with Python.
I suspect that even those who would pronounce 'quintuple'
"kwintuhpel" would say 'quintuplicate' as "kwinTOOPlikuht".
(that's the noun, not the verb, which is "kwintoopliKATE").
So what's a 1-element tuple, anyway? A "mople"? "monople"?
It does seem like this lopsided pythonic creature (1,) ought
to have a name to reflect its ugly, newbie-unfriendly
nature.
Are we having fun yet? ;-)
Cheers,
Terry
--
Terry Hancock (ha*****@AnansiSpaceworks.com)
Anansi Spaceworks http://www.AnansiSpaceworks.com
Its tupple surely.
The following shows that we are not the first to ponder this: http://www.jot.fm/issues/issue_2003_03/column9
Stick tuple into the Windosw XP speech properties preview box and hit
preview-voice,
it says tupple not toople. :-)
- Paddy.
Terry Hancock wrote: So what's a 1-element tuple, anyway? A "mople"? "monople"?
It does seem like this lopsided pythonic creature (1,) ought
to have a name to reflect its ugly, newbie-unfriendly
nature.
Are we having fun yet? ;-)
I kind of like 'moople'. :)
On Sun, 12 Feb 2006 23:30:25 -0500 in comp.lang.python, Steve Holden
<st***@holdenweb.com> wrote: John Salerno wrote:
[...] I know it comes from the suffix -tuple, which makes me think it's
pronounced as 'toople', but I've seen (at m-w.com) that the first
pronunciation option is 'tuhple', so I wasn't sure. Maybe it's both, but
which is most prevalent?
[...]"Tyoople", "toople" or "tupple" depending on who you are, where you grew
up and who you are speaking to. As with so many Usenet questions,
there's no right answer, only 314 wrong ones :-)
FWIW, I've often heard the latter two, but never the first one.
"Tuple" by itself tends to be "toople," but as a suffix tends to be
"tupple."
I teach on both sides of the Atlantic, and have learned to draw a mental
breath before trying to pronounce the word "router". Americans find the
British pronunciation ("rooter") hilarious, despite the fact they tell
Probably a cultural reference to "Roto-Rooter," a nationwide plumbing
company specializing in cleaning (ostensibly tree and other plant
roots, though often more, uh, prozaic materials), from sewer drains.
"Call Roto-Rooter, that's the name, and away go troubles down the
drain."
me I drive on "Root 66" to get to DC. The Brits are politer, and only
snigger behind my back when I pronounce it as Americans do, to rhyme
with "outer".
I've seen "route" pronounced "rout" or "root" depending on the
background and mood of the speaker, though in this part of the country
("midwest", though "middle" might be more accurate) the former
pronunciation is far more common. Through the sugestive power of
television, however, I suspect nearly every American would speak of
"root 66" even though the next sentence might reference "rout 12."
On NPR ([American] National Public Radio), there's a weekly music
program called "American Routes" pronounced such to conjure the
alternate "American Roots."
Regards,
-=Dave
--
Change is inevitable, progress is not.
John Salerno schrieb: Terry Hancock wrote:
So what's a 1-element tuple, anyway? A "mople"? "monople"?
It does seem like this lopsided pythonic creature (1,) ought
to have a name to reflect its ugly, newbie-unfriendly
nature.
Are we having fun yet? ;-)
I kind of like 'moople'. :)
tuples are of latin origin, so one can derive the tuple words
systematically:
Latin n-tuple
---------------------------
.... ...
triplex triple
duplex duple
simplex simple
I wouldn't mind calling (1,) a simple but I'm not a native English
speaker so I have no idea wether it sounds ridiculous to English
ears. If simple is too simple for you just call it simplum or simplon
or simplex.
;)
Peter Maas, Aachen
On Mon, Feb 13, 2006 at 08:52:06PM +0000, John Salerno wrote: Terry Hancock wrote:
So what's a 1-element tuple, anyway? A "mople"? "monople"?
It does seem like this lopsided pythonic creature (1,) ought
to have a name to reflect its ugly, newbie-unfriendly
nature.
Are we having fun yet? ;-)
I kind of like 'moople'. :)
I cry unquel.
Dave Hansen wrote: I've seen "route" pronounced "rout" or "root" depending on the
background and mood of the speaker
I actually came up with a method that I use: "rout" for a verb, "root"
for a noun. So Route 66 is Root 66, and routing an army is rOUTing an
army. :)
Peter Maas wrote: I wouldn't mind calling (1,) a simple but I'm not a native English
speaker so I have no idea wether it sounds ridiculous to English
ears. If simple is too simple for you just call it simplum or simplon
or simplex.
Heh heh, simple is weird.
How about this: one-uple, which can be condensed to woople. :)
Dave Hansen wrote: On Sun, 12 Feb 2006 23:30:25 -0500 in comp.lang.python, Steve Holden
<st***@holdenweb.com> wrote:
John Salerno wrote:
[...]
I know it comes from the suffix -tuple, which makes me think it's
pronounced as 'toople', but I've seen (at m-w.com) that the first
pronunciation option is 'tuhple', so I wasn't sure. Maybe it's both, but
which is most prevalent?
[...]
"Tyoople", "toople" or "tupple" depending on who you are, where you grew
up and who you are speaking to. As with so many Usenet questions,
there's no right answer, only 314 wrong ones :-)
FWIW, I've often heard the latter two, but never the first one.
"Tuple" by itself tends to be "toople," but as a suffix tends to be
"tupple."
No, but then you probably listen to the noos, not the nyoos, on the TV
or radio. That's a particularly British pronunciation.
I teach on both sides of the Atlantic, and have learned to draw a mental
breath before trying to pronounce the word "router". Americans find the
British pronunciation ("rooter") hilarious, despite the fact they tell
Probably a cultural reference to "Roto-Rooter," a nationwide plumbing
company specializing in cleaning (ostensibly tree and other plant
roots, though often more, uh, prozaic materials), from sewer drains.
"Call Roto-Rooter, that's the name, and away go troubles down the
drain."
me I drive on "Root 66" to get to DC. The Brits are politer, and only
snigger behind my back when I pronounce it as Americans do, to rhyme
with "outer".
I've seen "route" pronounced "rout" or "root" depending on the
background and mood of the speaker, though in this part of the country
("midwest", though "middle" might be more accurate) the former
pronunciation is far more common. Through the sugestive power of
television, however, I suspect nearly every American would speak of
"root 66" even though the next sentence might reference "rout 12."
On NPR ([American] National Public Radio), there's a weekly music
program called "American Routes" pronounced such to conjure the
alternate "American Roots."
Never caught that. Must go get some batteries for my radio.
regards
Steve
--
Steve Holden +44 150 684 7255 +1 800 494 3119
Holden Web LLC www.holdenweb.com
PyCon TX 2006 www.python.org/pycon/
On Mon, 13 Feb 2006 22:30:43 +0100 in comp.lang.python, Peter Maas
<pe********@somewhere.com> wrote: John Salerno schrieb: Terry Hancock wrote:
So what's a 1-element tuple, anyway? A "mople"? "monople"?
It does seem like this lopsided pythonic creature (1,) ought
to have a name to reflect its ugly, newbie-unfriendly
nature.
Are we having fun yet? ;-)
I kind of like 'moople'. :)
tuples are of latin origin, so one can derive the tuple words
systematically:
Latin n-tuple
---------------------------
... ...
triplex triple
duplex duple
simplex simple
When I was in 4th grade, I was taught to count to ten in latin: unos,
duos, trace, quatro, quinque, sex, septem, octem, novem, decem
(assuming the intervening 35 years haven't dimmed my memory too
much...). This would suggest "untuple" (or one of several
contractions such as "unuple" or "uple").
Though I suspect "single" is correct. Consider coronary bypass
operations -- single, double, triple, quadruple...
Regards,
-=Dave
--
Change is inevitable, progress is not.
In article <0m********************************@4ax.com>,
Dave Hansen <id**@hotmail.com> wrote: I've seen "route" pronounced "rout" or "root" depending on the
background and mood of the speaker, though in this part of the country
("midwest", though "middle" might be more accurate) the former
pronunciation is far more common. Through the sugestive power of
television, however, I suspect nearly every American would speak of
"root 66" even though the next sentence might reference "rout 12."
On NPR ([American] National Public Radio), there's a weekly music
program called "American Routes" pronounced such to conjure the
alternate "American Roots."
Those of us for whom 'root' rhymes with 'foot', can pronounce
'route' either way without ambiguity. Or we could, anyway, if
everyone else would get with it. If you're going to adopt this
sensible program, other short vowel words are roof, hoof, creek.
My grandfather pronounced hoop short, but I never heard anyone
else do likewise. Tuple rhymes with couple.
Donn Cave, do**@u.washington.edu
Peter Maas <pe********@somewhere.com> wrote: Latin n-tuple
---------------------------
... ...
triplex triple
duplex duple
simplex simple
Would a 9-tuple be a nipple?
On Mon, 13 Feb 2006 16:46:26 -0500 in comp.lang.python, Steve Holden
<st***@holdenweb.com> wrote: Dave Hansen wrote: On Sun, 12 Feb 2006 23:30:25 -0500 in comp.lang.python, Steve Holden
<st***@holdenweb.com> wrote:
[...]"Tyoople", "toople" or "tupple" depending on who you are, where you grew
up and who you are speaking to. As with so many Usenet questions,
there's no right answer, only 314 wrong ones :-)
FWIW, I've often heard the latter two, but never the first one.
"Tuple" by itself tends to be "toople," but as a suffix tends to be
"tupple."
No, but then you probably listen to the noos, not the nyoos, on the TV
or radio. That's a particularly British pronunciation.
I have heard that pronunciation of "news," and not just from the
British. Back in the mid-1980's I listened to a radio station with a
DJ who, in an attempt at humor, would prefix his news segments with a
nasal "And now, the nYoos!" with the first part of the Y heavily
stressed and about an octave higher in pitch than either end of the
word. He wasn't trying to sound British, just mock-enthusiastic.
[...] On NPR ([American] National Public Radio), there's a weekly music
program called "American Routes" pronounced such to conjure the
alternate "American Roots."
Never caught that. Must go get some batteries for my radio.
If you're interested, see http://www.americanroutes.org/
Their station list includes some who broadcast over the web.
Regards,
-=Dave
--
Change is inevitable, progress is not.
Dave Hansen schrieb: Latin n-tuple
---------------------------
... ...
triplex triple
duplex duple
simplex simple
When I was in 4th grade, I was taught to count to ten in latin: unos,
duos, trace, quatro, quinque, sex, septem, octem, novem, decem
unus duo tres quattuor ... octo ...
But tuples mean threefold, twofold etc. and the Latin equivalents
are triplex duplex simples. That simple sounds weird may be due
to the fact that English speakeers perceive it as a native word
rather than a Latin import.
Though I suspect "single" is correct. Consider coronary bypass
operations -- single, double, triple, quadruple...
That's OK but single stems from singularis (one-of-a-kind) rather
than from simplex (onefold) and doesn't fit as nicely to the other
tuples.
Peter Maas, Aachen
Peter Maas schrieb: But tuples mean threefold, twofold etc. and the Latin equivalents
are triplex duplex simples.
triplex duplex simplex
Peter Maas, Aachen
Paddy wrote: Its tupple surely.
The following shows that we are not the first to ponder this:
http://www.jot.fm/issues/issue_2003_03/column9
Stick tuple into the Windosw XP speech properties preview box and hit
preview-voice, it says tupple not toople. :-)
Which only goes to prove that it really should be two-pull.
Roy Smith wrote: Peter Maas <pe********@somewhere.com> wrote:
Latin n-tuple
---------------------------
... ...
triplex triple
duplex duple
simplex simple
Would a 9-tuple be a nipple?
Perhaps, but if you're a dairy farmer, four nipples would definitely be
a "two-pull" again...
Grant Edwards wrote: Of course! What did you expect from devotees of a language
named after one of the greatest comedy shows in TV history?
Seriously? Endless references to it until it gets painfully old :-(.
The Python language, at least, has seemed to have gotten past that point
in its history when every post had to be accompanied by a Monty Python
gag ...
--
Erik Max Francis && ma*@alcyone.com && http://www.alcyone.com/max/
San Jose, CA, USA && 37 20 N 121 53 W && AIM erikmaxfrancis
Whatever it is you came to teach me / I am here to learn it
-- India Arie
Terry Hancock wrote: I doubt that helps much: I pronounce all of those words
(when I use them, which is not too often) as "-toopel". The
only tuple I pronounce with the "-uh-" is "couple", and I
usually call that a "two-tuple" when dealing with Python.
I prefer the name _pair_ :-).
I suspect that even those who would pronounce 'quintuple'
"kwintuhpel" would say 'quintuplicate' as "kwinTOOPlikuht".
(that's the noun, not the verb, which is "kwintoopliKATE").
Yeah. The short form is that both are right and which one is more
common is probably regional more than anything. I've heard people say
_toople_ vs. _tuhple_, but I've never heard anyone say _quintoople_ vs.
_quintuhple_ (granted, not that the situation arises all that often).
But come to think of it, it kind of does. I've heard _quintuhplet_ and
_sextuhplet_ and the like plenty of times, and I've never heard it
pronounced the other way (in General American). m-w.com shows something
interesting here -- the first listed pronunciation for _quintuple_ is oo
with uh being an alternate, but the first listed pronunciation for
_quintuplet_ is uh with oo being an alternate. Which probably goes to
emphasize that that it's just whatever you're used to and there's no
rhyme or reason to any of it.
So what's a 1-element tuple, anyway? A "mople"? "monople"?
It does seem like this lopsided pythonic creature (1,) ought
to have a name to reflect its ugly, newbie-unfriendly
nature.
In mathematics there's really no such entity such tuples involve
elements of cartesian products of sets, and so if there are no cartesian
products involved you're just talking about an element of a set, which
is just a thing.
Of course that's still a completely valid construct in Python so the
question stands. If a 4-tuple is a quadruple, a 3-tuple is a triple, a
2-tuple is an pair, then I guess a 1-tuple would be a single. Granted
that's not nearly as gruesome enough a name to go with the special
lopsided Pythonic creature mentioned above. I suggest we name it a
hurgledink.
--
Erik Max Francis && ma*@alcyone.com && http://www.alcyone.com/max/
San Jose, CA, USA && 37 20 N 121 53 W && AIM erikmaxfrancis
Whatever it is you came to teach me / I am here to learn it
-- India Arie
Peter Maas wrote: tuples are of latin origin, so one can derive the tuple words
systematically:
Latin n-tuple
---------------------------
... ...
triplex triple
duplex duple
simplex simple
Yeah but there's already plenty of existing English usage such that
3-tuple : triple :: 2-tuple : pair. (A 2-tuple is an "ordered pair" in
mathematics.) If a 2-tuple is a pair, then it would seem to follow that
a 1-tuple is a single.
--
Erik Max Francis && ma*@alcyone.com && http://www.alcyone.com/max/
San Jose, CA, USA && 37 20 N 121 53 W && AIM erikmaxfrancis
Whatever it is you came to teach me / I am here to learn it
-- India Arie
Erik Max Francis wrote: Terry Hancock wrote:
I doubt that helps much: I pronounce all of those words
(when I use them, which is not too often) as "-toopel". The
only tuple I pronounce with the "-uh-" is "couple", and I
usually call that a "two-tuple" when dealing with Python.
I prefer the name _pair_ :-).
I suspect that even those who would pronounce 'quintuple'
"kwintuhpel" would say 'quintuplicate' as "kwinTOOPlikuht".
(that's the noun, not the verb, which is "kwintoopliKATE").
Yeah. The short form is that both are right and which one is more
common is probably regional more than anything. I've heard people say
_toople_ vs. _tuhple_, but I've never heard anyone say _quintoople_ vs.
_quintuhple_ (granted, not that the situation arises all that often).
But come to think of it, it kind of does. I've heard _quintuhplet_ and
_sextuhplet_ and the like plenty of times, and I've never heard it
pronounced the other way (in General American). m-w.com shows something
interesting here -- the first listed pronunciation for _quintuple_ is oo
with uh being an alternate, but the first listed pronunciation for
_quintuplet_ is uh with oo being an alternate. Which probably goes to
emphasize that that it's just whatever you're used to and there's no
rhyme or reason to any of it.
So what's a 1-element tuple, anyway? A "mople"? "monople"?
It does seem like this lopsided pythonic creature (1,) ought
to have a name to reflect its ugly, newbie-unfriendly
nature.
Of course that's still a completely valid construct in Python so the
question stands. If a 4-tuple is a quadruple, a 3-tuple is a triple, a
2-tuple is an pair, then I guess a 1-tuple would be a single. Granted
that's not nearly as gruesome enough a name to go with the special
lopsided Pythonic creature mentioned above. I suggest we name it a
hurgledink.
So, ahhh, what about zero-tuples? zuple? uple? Surely it would be better
for 2,1, and 0-tuples to be called 2,1, and 0-tuples.
And, BTW, in New Zealand, I've only ever heard the pronunciation
'tupple'. toople sounds kind-of stoopid.
Cheers,
Carl.
Erik Max Francis <ma*@alcyone.com> wrote: (A 2-tuple is an "ordered pair" in mathematics.) If a 2-tuple is a
pair, then it would seem to follow that a 1-tuple is a single.
Yeah, but an *ordered* single :-)
A more interesting question is what do you call ()? A none-tuple?
Roy Smith wrote: Peter Maas <pe********@somewhere.com> wrote:Latin n-tuple
---------------------------
... ...
triplex triple
duplex duple
simplex simple
Would a 9-tuple be a nipple?
We don't talk about that anymore since the Incident.
--
Erik Max Francis && ma*@alcyone.com && http://www.alcyone.com/max/
San Jose, CA, USA && 37 20 N 121 53 W && AIM erikmaxfrancis
Society attacks early when the individual is helpless.
-- B.F. Skinner
Roy Smith wrote: A more interesting question is what do you call ()? A none-tuple?
Yeah, that's at the point where it _really_ departs from anything
remotely mathematical. Don't think I've ever heard the occasion to talk
about 0-tuples in any context, though, so I don't think it's something
we need to worry about. I'm sure you'd just call them "empty tuples" or
"0-tuples" and move on :-).
--
Erik Max Francis && ma*@alcyone.com && http://www.alcyone.com/max/
San Jose, CA, USA && 37 20 N 121 53 W && AIM erikmaxfrancis
Society attacks early when the individual is helpless.
-- B.F. Skinner
Erik Max Francis wrote: Roy Smith wrote:
A more interesting question is what do you call ()? A none-tuple?
Yeah, that's at the point where it _really_ departs from anything
remotely mathematical. Don't think I've ever heard the occasion to talk
about 0-tuples in any context, though, so I don't think it's something
we need to worry about. I'm sure you'd just call them "empty tuples" or
"0-tuples" and move on :-).
There's only one tuple of length zero, so I just call it "Spot". a = ()
b = ()
a is b
True
On Mon, 13 Feb 2006 18:27:40 -0800
Erik Max Francis <ma*@alcyone.com> wrote: Terry Hancock wrote: The only tuple I pronounce with the "-uh-" is "couple",
and I usually call that a "two-tuple" when dealing with
Python.
I prefer the name _pair_ :-).
Yeah, that works too.
So what's a 1-element tuple, anyway? A "mople"?
"monople"? It does seem like this lopsided pythonic
creature (1,) ought to have a name to reflect its ugly,
newbie-unfriendly nature.
In mathematics there's really no such entity ...
Yeah, well that's we have no name for it. And yet, there
it is.
Of course that's still a completely valid construct in
Python so the question stands. If a 4-tuple is a
quadruple, a 3-tuple is a triple, a 2-tuple is an pair,
then I guess a 1-tuple would be a single. Granted that's
not nearly as gruesome enough a name to go with the
special lopsided Pythonic creature mentioned above. I
suggest we name it a hurgledink.
Best suggestion I've heard yet! ;-)
Thanks all -- I really laughed reading this thread, I
really didn't expect my stupid question to get such
an enthusiastic response. :-D
--
Terry Hancock (ha*****@AnansiSpaceworks.com)
Anansi Spaceworks http://www.AnansiSpaceworks.com
Roy Smith wrote: Erik Max Francis <ma*@alcyone.com> wrote: (A 2-tuple is an "ordered pair" in mathematics.) If a 2-tuple is a
pair, then it would seem to follow that a 1-tuple is a single.
Yeah, but an *ordered* single :-)
A more interesting question is what do you call ()? A none-tuple?
empty?
--
mph
(dupple, supple, zupple) = (2,1,0) # :-)
Hmm,
I've found a term for a large tuple, a muckle: http://www.google.co.uk/search?hl=en...G=Search&meta=
Definitions of muckle on the Web:
* batch: (often followed by `of') a large number or amount or
extent; "a batch of letters"; "a deal of trouble"; "a lot of money";
"he made a mint on the stock market"; "it must have cost plenty"
wordnet.princeton.edu/perl/webwn
- Pad
[Terry Hancock] So what's a 1-element tuple, anyway? A "mople"? "monople"?
It does seem like this lopsided pythonic creature (1,) ought
to have a name to reflect its ugly, newbie-unfriendly
nature.
It's a "trip-you-uple", which you can pronounce anyway you like ;-)
--
alan kennedy
------------------------------------------------------
email alan: http://xhaus.com/contact/alan
Alan Kennedy wrote: [Terry Hancock] So what's a 1-element tuple, anyway? A "mople"? "monople"?
It does seem like this lopsided pythonic creature (1,) ought
to have a name to reflect its ugly, newbie-unfriendly
nature.
It's a "trip-you-uple", which you can pronounce anyway you like ;-)
All I hear there is "triple you up," which is good if you're in a poker
tournament, which I suppose tells you where my mind has been lately.
--
Erik Max Francis && ma*@alcyone.com && http://www.alcyone.com/max/
San Jose, CA, USA && 37 20 N 121 53 W && AIM erikmaxfrancis
If there must be trouble let it be in my day, that my child may have
peace. -- Thomas Paine This thread has been closed and replies have been disabled. Please start a new discussion. |
