Scientific Computing with NumPy

[mclaugb]

Has anyone recompiled the Scientific Computing package using NumPy instead
of Numeric?
I need a least squares algorithm and a Newton Rhaphson algorithm which is
contained in Numeric but all the documentation out there says that Numeric
is crap and all code should be using NumPy.
Thanks,
Bryan

[linda.s]

On 2/6/06, mclaugb <mc*****@nospm.yahoo.com> wrote:

Has anyone recompiled the Scientific Computing package using NumPy instead
of Numeric?
I need a least squares algorithm and a Newton Rhaphson algorithm which is
contained in Numeric but all the documentation out there says that Numeric
is crap and all code should be using NumPy.
Thanks,
Bryan
--
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list

what is the relationship between Numeric and Numpy?

[mclaugb]

This page documents the differences. It seems that NumPy is supported and
more recent.
http://numeric.scipy.org/
"linda.s" <sa************@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:ma***************************************@pyt hon.org...
On 2/6/06, mclaugb <mc*****@nospm.yahoo.com> wrote:

Has anyone recompiled the Scientific Computing package using NumPy instead
of Numeric?
I need a least squares algorithm and a Newton Rhaphson algorithm which is
contained in Numeric but all the documentation out there says that Numeric
is crap and all code should be using NumPy.
Thanks,
Bryan
--
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list

what is the relationship between Numeric and Numpy?

[Brendan]

As of version 0.4.x, Scipy exclusively uses the newer NumPy module
instead of the older Numeric module. The confusion is inevitable in
this time of transition, but their intent is to standardize on one
array package.

Brendan
--
Brendan Simons

mclaugb wrote:

This page documents the differences. It seems that NumPy is supported and
more recent.
http://numeric.scipy.org/
"linda.s" <sa************@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:ma***************************************@pyt hon.org...
On 2/6/06, mclaugb <mc*****@nospm.yahoo.com> wrote:

Has anyone recompiled the Scientific Computing package using NumPy instead
of Numeric?
I need a least squares algorithm and a Newton Rhaphson algorithm which is
contained in Numeric but all the documentation out there says that Numeric
is crap and all code should be using NumPy.
Thanks,
Bryan

what is the relationship between Numeric and Numpy?

[mclaugb]

Is Scipy the same thing as ScientificPython?
I am confused if SciPy is just the new version. they appear to be separate
things.
Bryan

"Brendan" <sp**********@yahoo.ca> wrote in message
news:11**********************@o13g2000cwo.googlegr oups.com...

As of version 0.4.x, Scipy exclusively uses the newer NumPy module
instead of the older Numeric module. The confusion is inevitable in
this time of transition, but their intent is to standardize on one
array package.

Brendan
--
Brendan Simons

mclaugb wrote:

This page documents the differences. It seems that NumPy is supported
and
more recent.
http://numeric.scipy.org/
"linda.s" <sa************@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:ma***************************************@pyt hon.org...
On 2/6/06, mclaugb <mc*****@nospm.yahoo.com> wrote:

> Has anyone recompiled the Scientific Computing package using NumPy
> instead
> of Numeric?
> I need a least squares algorithm and a Newton Rhaphson algorithm which
> is
> contained in Numeric but all the documentation out there says that
> Numeric
> is crap and all code should be using NumPy.
> Thanks,
> Bryan

what is the relationship between Numeric and Numpy?

[Travis E. Oliphant]

mclaugb wrote:

Is Scipy the same thing as ScientificPython?

No. They are two separate projects. Scientific Python is still
Numeric-only. SciPy 0.3.x is Numeric-based and SciPy 0.4.x is NumPy-based.

The developers for NumPy are also the developers for SciPy (for the most
part).

There is a mailing list nu***************@lists.sourceforge.net where
all of your questions can be answered.

[Robert Kern]

mclaugb wrote:

Is Scipy the same thing as ScientificPython?
I am confused if SciPy is just the new version. they appear to be separate
things.

They are separate projects.

--
Robert Kern
ro*********@gmail.com

"In the fields of hell where the grass grows high
Are the graves of dreams allowed to die."
-- Richard Harter

[Tim Hochberg]

mclaugb wrote:

Is Scipy the same thing as ScientificPython?
I am confused if SciPy is just the new version. they appear to be separate
things.
Bryan
No, Scientific Python is "a collection of Python modules that are useful
for scientific computing" written by Konrad Hinsen. I'm not a user, but
you can find information here:

http://starship.python.net/~hinsen/ScientificPython/

SciPy is, I believe, a more recent and more ambitious project. In any
event it is not directly related to ScientficPython. Information here:

http://scipy.org/

Both of these packages are built on top of one of the three extant array
extensions for Python. To try to clear up some of the confusion around
those, let me summarize the states of these three packages as I
understand it:

Numeric: This is the origingal array package.

Numarray: This was written as a replacement for Numeric. It has improved
performance for large arrays. The internals were also simplified and
many other improvements were made (arrays were subclassable, numeric
signal handling vastly improved, etc). Unfortunately, a side effect of
the changes was that small array performance got worse. There was a
signifigant chunk of the numeric community for whom this was a deal
breaker and as a result there ended up being a split between the Numeric
and Numarray communities.

Numpy: This is a rewrite of Numeric that incorporates most of the
improvements in Numarray. It is designed to bring the two halves of the
Python numeric community back together. So far, it seems to have gotten
a positive reception. It is currently at 0.9.4 and I expect a stable 1.0
version in relatively short order. If I were starting with Python
numerics, this is where I would start, although I've yet to start
converting my Numarray based code over.

I hope that sheds some light on this.

regards,

-tim

"Brendan" <sp**********@yahoo.ca> wrote in message
news:11**********************@o13g2000cwo.googlegr oups.com...

As of version 0.4.x, Scipy exclusively uses the newer NumPy module
instead of the older Numeric module. The confusion is inevitable in
this time of transition, but their intent is to standardize on one
array package.

Brendan
--
Brendan Simons

mclaugb wrote:

This page documents the differences. It seems that NumPy is supported
and
more recent.
http://numeric.scipy.org/
"linda.s" <sa************@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:ma***************************************@ python.org...
On 2/6/06, mclaugb <mc*****@nospm.yahoo.com> wrote:

Has anyone recompiled the Scientific Computing package using NumPy
instead
of Numeric?
I need a least squares algorithm and a Newton Rhaphson algorithm which
is
contained in Numeric but all the documentation out there says that
Numeric
is crap and all code should be using NumPy.
Thanks,
Bryan

what is the relationship between Numeric and Numpy?

[Robert Kern]

mclaugb wrote:

Has anyone recompiled the Scientific Computing package using NumPy instead
of Numeric?

What "Scientific Computing" package? I don't know of any package under that
name. AFAIK, Konrad Hinsen has not yet ported his ScientificPython package to
numpy, yet.

scipy 0.4+ is ported to numpy (I recommend using an SVN checkout rather than the
tarball).

--
Robert Kern
ro*********@gmail.com

"In the fields of hell where the grass grows high
Are the graves of dreams allowed to die."
-- Richard Harter

[Travis E. Oliphant]

Tim Hochberg wrote:

mclaugb wrote:
No, Scientific Python is "a collection of Python modules that are useful
for scientific computing" written by Konrad Hinsen. I'm not a user, but
you can find information here:

http://starship.python.net/~hinsen/ScientificPython/

SciPy is, I believe, a more recent and more ambitious project. In any
event it is not directly related to ScientficPython. Information here:

SciPy's been around since 2001. ScientificPython since about 1998, I
think.
Numeric: This is the origingal array package.

Numarray: This was written as a replacement for Numeric. It has improved
performance for large arrays. The internals were also simplified and
many other improvements were made (arrays were subclassable, numeric
signal handling vastly improved, etc). Unfortunately, a side effect of
the changes was that small array performance got worse. There was a
signifigant chunk of the numeric community for whom this was a deal
breaker and as a result there ended up being a split between the Numeric
and Numarray communities.
Just to be clear, small array performance was only 1 of the
"deal-breaker" problems with numarray. Anothber big problem for SciPy
was that the Numeric C-API was never fully supported (in particular the
Ufunc C-API). This made it more difficult to convert to numarray.
Thus, porting never happened. The small-array speed issue just made
porting that much less enticing.

Numpy: This is a rewrite of Numeric that incorporates most of the
improvements in Numarray.

The goal is to incorporate *all* of the improvements (unless being
written in Python is one of the improvements). If there are missing
improvements we need to know about them.
Thanks to Tim for spreading some light on the issue. There will no
doubt be continued confusion for new users over the coming months.
Hopefully, with time the confusion will fade as more people use NumPy
and any remainging issues get resolved.

-Travis

[linda.s]

where to download numpy for Python 2.3 in Mac?
Thanks!
Linda

[David M. Cooke]

"linda.s" <sa************@gmail.com> writes:

where to download numpy for Python 2.3 in Mac?
Thanks!
Linda

I don't know if anybody's specifically compiled for 2.3; I think most
of the developers on mac are using 2.4 :-)

But (assuming you have the developer tools installed) it's really to
compile: python setup.py build && python setup.py install.

Do you need Tiger (10.4) or Panther (10.3) compatibility?

--
|>|\/|<
/--------------------------------------------------------------------------\
|David M. Cooke
|cookedm(at)physics(dot)mcmaster(dot)ca

[Alex Martelli]

David M. Cooke <co**********@physics.mcmaster.ca> wrote:

"linda.s" <sa************@gmail.com> writes:

where to download numpy for Python 2.3 in Mac?
Thanks!
Linda

I don't know if anybody's specifically compiled for 2.3; I think most
of the developers on mac are using 2.4 :-)

However, what comes with MacOSX is STILL 2.3 (specifically 2.3.5 with
Tiger).
Alex

[linda.s]

On 2/10/06, David M. Cooke <co**********@physics.mcmaster.ca> wrote:

"linda.s" <sa************@gmail.com> writes:

where to download numpy for Python 2.3 in Mac?
Thanks!
Linda

I don't know if anybody's specifically compiled for 2.3; I think most
of the developers on mac are using 2.4 :-)

But (assuming you have the developer tools installed) it's really to
compile: python setup.py build && python setup.py install.

Do you need Tiger (10.4) or Panther (10.3) compatibility?

--
|>|\/|<
/--------------------------------------------------------------------------\
|David M. Cooke

The confusing thing is python 2.3 comes with mac when you got the
machine. so we need numpy which is OK with python 2.3. is my
understanding right?
Linda

[Robert Kern]

linda.s wrote:

where to download numpy for Python 2.3 in Mac?

I don't think anybody has a binary package compiled for you. However, if you
have gcc installed, numpy should build out-of-box.

$ tar zcf ~/downloads/numpy-0.9.4.tar.gz
$ cd numpy-0.9.4
$ python setup.py build
$ sudo python setup.py install --install-scripts=/usr/local/bin

Note: the sudo in that last command is only necessary if your user account does
not have write access to /usr/local/bin

--
Robert Kern
ro*********@gmail.com

"In the fields of hell where the grass grows high
Are the graves of dreams allowed to die."
-- Richard Harter

[Tariq]

Has anyone been able to successfully install numpy 0.9.4 on python 2.4
under cygwin?

I'm getting a few errors, especially while it installs the C source.

--
Tariq

[Robert Kern]

Tariq wrote:

Has anyone been able to successfully install numpy 0.9.4 on python 2.4
under cygwin?

I'm getting a few errors, especially while it installs the C source.

I don't know of anyone compiling numpy under cygwin, but we will be happy to
help you on nu**************@lists.sourceforge.net if you will give us some more
information like what arguments you gave to the setup script and the exact error
messages that you are seeing.

--
Robert Kern
ro*********@gmail.com

"In the fields of hell where the grass grows high
Are the graves of dreams allowed to die."
-- Richard Harter

[kpp9c]

Numeric, Numarray, & Numpy... some one stick a screwdriver in my
forehead and end the madness that Numeric has become.

Brilliant programming & an almost essential part of scientific & math
hacking in python made maddeningly confusing by truly dumb naming
scheme.

For crying all night! Numpy was Numeric's nickname!!... choose a new,
related, but unique name!!!! Holy cow!!! How hard is that? A group of
folks smart enough to come up with such an amazing piece of software
can't do better than to avoid this unnecessary confusion?

only Apple could top naming as retarded as this.

with 2.3 seconds i came up with this:

Nappy

Numeric Array processing in Python

similar enough to suggest its origins, unique enough to not confuse the
heck out of everyone...

I am sure folks can do better, but really!

<wink>

[Terry Reedy]

"kpp9c" <kp*@mac.com> wrote in message
news:11**********************@z14g2000cwz.googlegr oups.com...

Numeric, Numarray, & Numpy... some one stick a screwdriver in my
forehead and end the madness that Numeric has become. For crying all night! Numpy was Numeric's nickname
Given that NumPy *is* an updated version of Numeric, with the same basic
interface, I think the name quite appropriate. It also works well as a
partner for SciPy.
with 2.3 seconds i came up with this:
Nappy
Numeric Array processing in Python

Nice 8-(). British nanny slang for diaper (napkin).

tjr

[greg.landrum]

Terry Reedy wrote:

"kpp9c" <kp*@mac.com> wrote in message
news:11**********************@z14g2000cwz.googlegr oups.com...

Numeric, Numarray, & Numpy... some one stick a screwdriver in my
forehead and end the madness that Numeric has become.

For crying all night! Numpy was Numeric's nickname

Given that NumPy *is* an updated version of Numeric, with the same basic
interface, I think the name quite appropriate. It also works well as a
partner for SciPy.

Which, to make the confusion even worse, is *not* the updated version
of Scientific Python.

I'm with the previous author: this naming is a mess.

-greg

[Travis E. Oliphant]

gr**********@gmail.com wrote:

Terry Reedy wrote:

"kpp9c" <kp*@mac.com> wrote in message
news:11**********************@z14g2000cwz.google groups.com...

Numeric, Numarray, & Numpy... some one stick a screwdriver in my
forehead and end the madness that Numeric has become.

For crying all night! Numpy was Numeric's nickname

Given that NumPy *is* an updated version of Numeric, with the same basic
interface, I think the name quite appropriate. It also works well as a
partner for SciPy.

Exactly!

I suppose people must vent, but the truth is that satisfying the
diversity of scientific Python users is *very* hard.

NumPy *is* trying to do something about the confusion between Numeric
and Numarray. I'm sorry you don't like the name, but it was properly
discussed and a host of other names were suggested before settling on
NumPy as the *least bad*.

Yes, it will be confusing for a few months, but then it will probably be
*less* confusing as people realize that NumPy *is* Numeric 3K

The interface is not that different. For example, you can usually
compile extensions simply by replacing Numeric/arrayobject.h with
numpy/arrayobject.h

If you don't like things then start suggesting specific improvements at
nu**************@lists.sourceforge.net instead of just ranting on the
python list which most of us don't have the time to read anyway (notice
how late I'm responding to this...)

-Travis