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Ron Grossi: God is not a man

P: n/a
SUMMARY
=======

For the past few weeks, a self-professed
internet evangelist has posted several times
to several news groups to claim several
points as facts. It would appear that these
assertions do not stand up to close
examination, logic and reason, and stand in
direct contradiction to the explicit text
attributed to Almighty God as found in the
Bible.
GOD IS NOT A MAN
================

Mr. Ron Grossi's claim that "God tells us in
the Bible" that in order to get to heaven
people need to believe "Christ is Lord" or
"Christ as Lord" or "Christ Lord" depending
on the version of the Bible you have, and
that furthermore, people also need to believe
that "God raised Him from the dead" is
typical of the issues we face with his post.

First of all, it is not Almighty God that is
telling us these things. It is non other than
(St.) Paul, whom most Christian scholars
believe never to have met Christ, peace and
blessing of Almighty God be upon him (PBBUH)
in the flesh while he lived on this earth,
that is allegedly doing the telling, writing
in the book of Romans, not Almighty God.

And who is Paul, does anyone know? The reader
is advised to read from the Bible from the
book of Acts:

"But when Paul perceived that the one part
were Sadducees, and the other Pharisees, he
cried out in the council, Men and brethren, I
am a Pharisee, the son of a Pharisee: of the
hope and resurrection of the dead I am called
in question." (Acts 23: 6)
And what did Christ PBBUH himself say
concerning those?

"Then Jesus said unto them, Take heed and
beware of the leaven of the Pharisees and of
the Sadducees." (Matthew 16: 6)
And so it appears that Mr. Grossi is
attributing the alleged words of Paul, whom
if we are to believe in the Bible, we now
know who he is and what we should do about
his leaven, to Almighty God!

Secondly, the words of Paul and the post of
Mr. Grossi imply that "Christ is Lord" is equal
to "Christ is LORD", i.e. that to get to
heaven people need to believe that Christ is
Almighty God Himself; but this contradicts
"the word of God" as found in the Bible, and
even the words attributed to Christ PBBUH
himself in the first person as found in the
New Testament. Please bear with me.

It is in the Bible that we read Christ PBBUH
repeatedly described as "a man" (Acts
2: 22) and we even read words attributed to
him in the first person testifying that he is
"the son of man" (Luke 9: 58). And it is in
the same Bible that we read it proclaimed
time after time that "God is not a man ...
neither the son of man" (Numbers 23: 19).

And so unless one wishes to dispute what the
meaning of the word "is" is, then the Numbers
verse mean what it says: Christ PBBUH was not
God, is not God, and never will be God.
Period. After all "God is not a man"
(Numbers 23: 19) from the beginning of time,
during the time Christ PBBUH walked this
earth, and until the end of time.

Now if Paul meant "Lord" as meaning
"nobleman", "person in position of
authority", or "title prefixed to named of
peers and barons" (all quoted from the A.L.
Dictionary of Current English), then
referring to Christ PBBUH as such would have
been fair.

It is so because with the English translation
of the Bible originating from an environment
where "Lords" abound, it would be a fair
practice to attribute the word "Lord" in its
earthly connotations to Christ PBBUH.
Needless to say that as a messenger and
prophet of Almighty God, Christ PBBUH does
indeed deserve that title, especially with
divine authority to back him up.

Perhaps it is worth mentioning that Abraham,
Jacob, and many other prophets, peace and
blessings of Almighty God be upon them
(PBBUT), were also referred to as lords. (See
Genesis 18: 12, and Genesis 32: 4).

Implying, however, like Mr. Grossi and others
of like mind do, that "Lord" actually means
"LORD", then we should refer them back to
(Numbers 23: 19) I guess. After all, it is
either Almighty God is telling the truth, or
they are. There is exclusivity here. God is
either a man, or He is not a man. And I don't
know about you, but I prefer to believe
Almighty God over anyone else.

Thirdly, In all the versions of the Bible I
have I cannot find one rendering which reads
like Mr. Grossi's quote.

Mr. Grossi's:
"... and believe in your heart that God
raised Him from the dead, you WILL
BE SAVED."
KJV:
"... and shalt believe in thine heart that
God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt
be saved." (Romans 10: 9)
RSV:
"... and believe in your heart that God raised
him from the dead, you will be saved."
(Romans 10: 9)
ASV:
".. and shalt believe in thy heart that God
raised him from the dead, thou shalt be
saved:" (Romans 10: 9)
YLT:
"... and mayest believe in thy heart that God did
raise him out of the dead, thou shalt be
saved," (Romans 10: 9)
Note that in all versions of the Bible quoted
from that Mr. Grossi's "God raised Him" is
rendered (more or less) "God raised him." The
word "him," referring to Christ PBBUH, is in
lower case. This shows that this Biblical
text, even when attributed to Paul, seems
still in keeping with the spirit of Numbers
23: 19, namely that "God is not a man ...
neither the son of a man" to deserve a
capitalized LORD, so to speak. That Mr.
Grossi or people of like mind are miss-
quoting here and then implying an anti-truth
does not make this miss-quote divine truth by
their merely repeating it.

Also do note that it reads "God raised him."
In other words, the raising is attributed
here to Almighty God, while the object of the
raising is meant to be Christ PBBUH. And
the fact that "him" was used instead of
"Himself" effectively rules out (also in
keeping with the spirit of the word of God as
found in the Bible that God is not a man)
that Christ PBBUH was ever God.
GOD WILL NOT DWELL ON THE EARTH
===============================

Mr. Grossi then proceeds to claim that:

"Over 2000 years ago God came from Heaven
to earth in the person of Jesus Christ to
shed His blood and die on a cross to pay
our sin debt in full."
It does not take much to note that this is
a claim yet to be backed up with supporting
evidence. As a matter of fact and after
reading from 1 Kings (see below) one would be
quick to conclude that this claim is yet
again made in direct contradiction to the
"word of God" as found in the Bible.

"But will God indeed dwell on the earth?
behold, the heaven and heaven of heavens
cannot contain thee; how much less this house
that I have builded?" (1 Kings 8: 27)
So, it is according to the Bible of all books
that not only "God is not a man ... neither
the son of man," but also that "God will not
dwell on the earth." Why? Not that we need to
know why, but apparently because "the heaven
and heaven of heavens cannot contain God."
Note that these are not my words. These are
verbatim words quoted from the Bible.
CHRIST WAS NOT CRUCIFIED
========================

It comes as no surprise to me that when Mr.
Grossi miss-quotes from the Bible and resorts to
quoting the very people Christ PBBUH warned
against) to attribute certain words to
Almighty God that he will arrive at the exact
opposite of what he intended for.

The holy book of the Muslims is explicitly
clear on the idea of the alleged crucifixion of
Christ PBBUH, and that of the original sin.
Muslims are told that to believe that we (as
humans) are to be held accountable for our
fathers' sins is to imply that Almighty
God, may He be glorified above all of this,
is an imperfect unjust God. That for us (as
humans) to believe that Almighty God requires
the death of an innocent man (in the person
of Christ PBBUH) to die for the mistakes of
anyone also implies that Almighty God, may He
be glorified above all of this, is an
imperfect unjust God.

But since Almighty God is PERFECT in every
way: power, knowledge, mercy, justice, etc.,
then to believe in the message of Grossi here
is to attach an imperfection to Almighty
God, and is to belittle Almighty God's
supreme qualities and Majestic Being. In fact
the Qur'an argues that people who do that
(i.e., believe that God will blame us for the
mistakes of others, or that He requires the
blood of an innocent man for the forgiving of
the sins of the guilty) are not actually
worshiping the one true God. Yes Almighty
God created everyone, but you see, He has
none of these qualities that people like
Grossi here attribute to the "God" they
worship. Hence they are worshiping somebody
or something other than the true Almighty
perfect God.

It is in this light (in spite of the repeated
messages of anyone) that it becomes revealing
if the Qur'anic claim that Christ PBBUH was
not crucified is actually verified in the
Gospels.

If we quote from the Qur'an for a change, we
read Almighty God asserting the following
while speaking of those who boast that they
killed the Messiah of God:

"That they said (in boast), "We killed Christ
Jesus the son of Mary, the Messenger of
Allah";- but they killed him not, nor
crucified him, but so it was made to appear
to them, and those who differ therein are
full of doubts, with no (certain) knowledge,
but only conjecture to follow, for of a
surety they killed him not:-"
(Translation, Qur'an, 4: 157)
This is an amazingly bold statement. One that
could have come only from one who knows the
facts. So let's study this matter in the
Bible.
COMMON GROUND
=============
If we are to examine whether Christ PBBUH was
crucified or not, we need to agree on common
ground and define (or underline the meaning
of) some words. One would have to study what
"crucified" and "resurrected" mean, and then
see whether after his alleged crucifixion and
resurrection, Christ's nature PBBUH agrees with
these definitions.
WHAT DOES CRUCIFY MEAN?
-----------------------

According to the English language crucify
means "to cause death by hanging or impaling
on the cross." Note that death has to occur
on the cross for the act of crucifixion to be
considered to have taken place.

Many people in the Philippines stage mock
"crucifixions" around the time of "Good Friday"
to mark the alleged sacrifice of Christ PBBUH.
But the mere fact, however, that these people
are brought down alive from the crosses
automatically nullifies the notion that
actual crucifixions did take place.

After all, if one is brought down from the
cross and he walks around smoking cigarettes
then he was not technically speaking
crucified. Yes, he was put up on the cross,
but since that did not cause death then
(according to the universally agreed norms of
language and reason) one cannot say that the
said man was crucified and be telling the truth.

The deficiency is in the English language
which cannot differentiate between putting
some one up on the cross and having that
person die on the cross because of being put
on it. In fact it is for this reason that
some scholars (Ahmed Deedat of South Africa)
have suggested the introduction of the word
"cruci-ficion", i.e. made-believe
crucifixion, as in a work of fiction, into the
English language.
WHAT DOES RESURRECTED MEAN?
---------------------------

Having known what crucifixion means (as
opposed to cruci-ficion) let's move on to
study the word "resurrected."

Amazingly enough, it is in the Bible the one
finds Christ PBBUH himself in the first
person defining the resurrected as follows:
"... neither can they die any more for they
are equal unto the angles ..." (Luke 20: 36) whom
the Bible explains are "spirits" (Psalms 104:
4), a definition confirmed by Paul who explains
that the resurrected have a "spiritual body"
(1 Corinthians: 15: 44).

Now having known from the Bible (of all books)
that the resurrected are spirits, ghosts, or
spooks, and that to be crucified one would
have to die on the cross, let's study the
state of Christ PBBUH after his alleged
crucifixion and resurrection to see if he
fits the definitions of these words.
THEY FORSOOK HIM AND FLED
=========================
In the Bible, you will read that at the most
crucial juncture of the life of Jesus *all* his
disciples forsook him and fled. All of them.
Read from (Mark 14: 50): "And they all forsook him,
and fled."

So the Bible reports Jesus is hanged on the
cross; this is what people were talking
about. This is what the disciples had heard
from hearsay, because they had "ALL FORSOOK
HIM AND FLED." (Mark 14: 50) (Emphasis added).
Likewise, they had heard from hearsay that
Christ PBBUH had given up the ghost on the
cross. This is what people were talking
about. This is what the absent disciples
assumed then to be the sad end to their Rabbi.

Proof of that is evident in their terror when
Christ PBBUH goes to the upper room after his
alleged crucifixion and resurrection, when he
says to them: "Peace be unto you." (Luke
24: 36). [This is the official Muslim greeting
by the way].

Instead of going to kiss and hug their Rabbi,
"they were terrified and affrighted, and
supposed that they had seen a spirit." (Luke
24: 37).

Why were they terrified? They were so because
they thought they had seen a *spirit*. After
all they had heard (as opposed to witnessed)
that Christ PBBUH had given up the ghost on the
cross.

But did they? Did they see a spirit?
A SPIRIT HATH NOT FLESH AND BONES
=================================
Speaking after his alleged crucifixion
and resurrection (when he ought to have been
a spirit), Christ PBBUH is reported as saying:

"And he said unto them, Why are ye troubled?
and why do thoughts arise in your hearts?
Behold my hands and my feet, that it is I
myself: handle me, and see; for a SPIRIT hath
not FLESH and BONES, as ye SEE me HAVE."
(Luke 24:38-39) (Emphasis is mine)
Christ PBBUH is emphatic about it: Christ
PBBUH says he was no spirit. Christ PBBUH
says he is still alive. And alive does not
equal resurrected. Must we remind ourselves
that a resurrected entity in Christ's own words
is "equal unto the angels." (Luke 20:36),
i.e., spirit, spook, ghost?
PLEASE TELL THEM
================
And so here we must ask Mr. Grossi to please
tell the truth seeker, that according to your own
scriptures that the resurrected are not
spirits, when your own Bible says they are
so. Tell them that (St.) Paul didn't define
the resurrected as having "spiritual bodies,"
(1 Corinthians: 15: 44), when he did so. Tell
them that Christ did not define the
resurrected as "equal unto the angles," (Luke
20: 36), when he preached so. Tell them that
your own scriptures does not say that the
angels are spirits, (Psalms 104: 4) when it
does so. Tell them that a spirit has flesh
and bones, when Christ himself says it is not
so. Tell them that Christ was not of flesh
and bones after he allegedly died for our
sins, when he himself says he was so. Please
tell them.

Please tell them how when asked in four
different places in the Bible "how can I
inherit eternal life?" that instead of
repeating his unchanging answer: your
salvation is in the law, keep the
commandments (See Mark 10:17-19, Luke 18:18-
20, Luke 10:25-28, and Matthew 19:16-19),
that Christ PBBUH says "believe that I am God
incarnate and you shall be saved" when he
never did so. Tell them that he answers
"believe I am part of a trinity and you shall
be saved" when he never preached so. Tell
them that he proclaims "wait until I am
crucified and then accept my sacrifice after
I am resurrected and you shall be saved" when
he never once said so. Not once. Please tell
them.
WHAT IS INIQUITY?
=================
Iniquity is injustice. This act takes place
when one is entrusted to judge in a matter
and he/she takes the right of someone and
gives to another without proof and rightfull
claim and in spite of the same.

Can you guess what is the highest form of
iniquity? It is the taking of the right to
deity (which is rightfully and uniquely
Almighty God's) and giving it to those who
don't deserve it, to those who never claimed it,
and to those who even denied it.
Almighty God says, warning us:

"And the two seas are not alike: this, fresh,
sweet, good to drink, this (other) bitter,
salt. And from them both ye eat fresh meat
and derive the ornament that ye wear. And
thou seest the ship cleaving them with its
prow that ye may seek of His bounty, and that
haply ye may give thanks.

"He maketh the night to pass into the day and
He maketh the day to pass into the night. He
hath subdued the sun and moon to service.
Each runneth unto an appointed term. Such is
Allah, your Lord; His is the Sovereignty; and
those unto whom ye pray instead of Him own
not so much as the white spot on a date-
stone.

"If ye pray unto them they hear not your
prayer, and if they heard they could not
grant it you. On the Day of Resurrection they
will disown association with you. None can
inform you like Him Who is Aware.

"O mankind! Ye are the poor in your relation
to Allah. And Allah! He is the Absolute, the
Owner of Praise.

"If He will, He can be rid of you and bring
(instead of you) some new creation. That is
not a hard thing for Allah."
(Translation, Glorious Qur'an, 35: 12-17)

As foretold by Almighty God in the Qur'anic
verse 15 shown above, Christ's PBBUH
Judgement's Day words to those who work
iniquity is amazingly confirmed in the Bible:

"Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord,
have we not prophesied in thy name? and in
thy name have cast out devils? and in thy
name done many wonderful works?

"And then will I profess unto them, I
never knew you: depart from me, ye that work
iniquity." (Matthew 7: 22-23)

Jul 19 '05 #1
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P: n/a
There is no honesty here.

I'll spare you attempts at interpretation.
If it means anything to you, look it up and read it for yourself.
If not, I apologize for perpetuating this OT thread.

And who is Paul, does anyone know?

"But when Paul perceived that the one part
were Sadducees, and the other Pharisees, he
cried out in the council, Men and brethren, I
am a Pharisee, the son of a Pharisee: of the
hope and resurrection of the dead I am called
in question." (Acts 23: 6)> And what did Christ PBBUH himself say
concerning those?
"Then Jesus said unto them, Take heed and
beware of the leaven of the Pharisees and of
the Sadducees." (Matthew 16: 6)

... Paul, whom
if we are to believe in the Bible, we now
know who he is and what we should do about
his leaven, to Almighty God!

INDIVIDUAL Pharisees believed in Jesus
Acts 15:14

Jesus kindly received a fearful, believing, yet fearful Pharisee
John 3:1-21 In fact, what is probably the scripture most
publicized these days (J3:16) was part of Jesus personal answer
to this Pharisee

Who did JESUS say his message was for?
Luke 5:32

From gospel writer Luke,who also wrote "Acts of the Apostles"
this is what Jesus said about Paul:
Acts9:15-23

There are millions, maybe hundreds of millions of honest hearted
Muslims
seeking to better know and serve The God. You, the author of
"God is not a man" are not one of them.
If you have something you'd like to offer from the Qur'an,
do so. Period.

And what of pretending to esteem The Bible while deliberately
perverting it's message? (Galatians 1:6-9, Luke 17:1-2)
Stop blemishing the name of honest people.

Jul 19 '05 #2

P: n/a
You are mistaken. Your long discourse is an exercise in
reaching a conclusion and then trying your best to take
scripture out of context to support your conclusion.
As humans we will never fully understand the Trinity in
this lifetime. That God the Father, God the Son and
God the Holy Spirit are somehow a single being. It
is much like humans. We are physical, emotional and
spiritual beings ourselves.

I would refer you to the works of C. S. Lewis and Josh
McDowell that at one time believed as you believe,
but when they honestly did their research came to the
obvious correct conclusion that Jesus was in fact
wholly God and wholly Man. If you honestly want to
know the answer to this question you should do some
additional research with these authors. They were
skeptics just like you and spent countless hours
researching this material (even in the original texts)
and came to a conclusion that is vastly different from
yours.

Christianity is a difficult religion. It states very
matter-of-factly that there is only one way to God,
THROUGH JESUS CHRIST. As humans we don't like this type
of absolute and will struggle against it (as it seems
you are). It seems inconceivable that all the other
religions could have it wrong. If we took a vote we
might have done it differently, but then we're not God.
All religions have a vested interest in keeping their
flock. Even if other religions knew for a fact that
Christ was the incarnate Son of God was crucified for
our sins and was the only way for us to spend eternity
in heaven do you think they would all convert and
begin following Christ? Not likely. There is too
much power and money at stake to make that change and
too many religious leaders would lose control and
power that they now posses.

The death and resurrection of Christ is the dividing
line among men. Either you believe it or you don't.
You can't just ignore it. If Christ is who he said he
(and others) say he was, then He is "the way". If not,
he is some poor carpenter with delusions of God-hood
that can be ignored. Since eternity hangs in the
balance, I pray that you will not make your decision
without making absolutely sure.

Regards,

Larry Bates

Obaid R. wrote:
SUMMARY
=======

For the past few weeks, a self-professed
internet evangelist has posted several times
to several news groups to claim several
points as facts. It would appear that these
assertions do not stand up to close
examination, logic and reason, and stand in
direct contradiction to the explicit text
attributed to Almighty God as found in the
Bible.
GOD IS NOT A MAN
================

Mr. Ron Grossi's claim that "God tells us in
the Bible" that in order to get to heaven
people need to believe "Christ is Lord" or
"Christ as Lord" or "Christ Lord" depending
on the version of the Bible you have, and
that furthermore, people also need to believe
that "God raised Him from the dead" is
typical of the issues we face with his post.

First of all, it is not Almighty God that is
telling us these things. It is non other than
(St.) Paul, whom most Christian scholars
believe never to have met Christ, peace and
blessing of Almighty God be upon him (PBBUH)
in the flesh while he lived on this earth,
that is allegedly doing the telling, writing
in the book of Romans, not Almighty God.

And who is Paul, does anyone know? The reader
is advised to read from the Bible from the
book of Acts:

"But when Paul perceived that the one part
were Sadducees, and the other Pharisees, he
cried out in the council, Men and brethren, I
am a Pharisee, the son of a Pharisee: of the
hope and resurrection of the dead I am called
in question." (Acts 23: 6)
And what did Christ PBBUH himself say
concerning those?

"Then Jesus said unto them, Take heed and
beware of the leaven of the Pharisees and of
the Sadducees." (Matthew 16: 6)
And so it appears that Mr. Grossi is
attributing the alleged words of Paul, whom
if we are to believe in the Bible, we now
know who he is and what we should do about
his leaven, to Almighty God!

Secondly, the words of Paul and the post of
Mr. Grossi imply that "Christ is Lord" is equal
to "Christ is LORD", i.e. that to get to
heaven people need to believe that Christ is
Almighty God Himself; but this contradicts
"the word of God" as found in the Bible, and
even the words attributed to Christ PBBUH
himself in the first person as found in the
New Testament. Please bear with me.

It is in the Bible that we read Christ PBBUH
repeatedly described as "a man" (Acts
2: 22) and we even read words attributed to
him in the first person testifying that he is
"the son of man" (Luke 9: 58). And it is in
the same Bible that we read it proclaimed
time after time that "God is not a man ...
neither the son of man" (Numbers 23: 19).

And so unless one wishes to dispute what the
meaning of the word "is" is, then the Numbers
verse mean what it says: Christ PBBUH was not
God, is not God, and never will be God.
Period. After all "God is not a man"
(Numbers 23: 19) from the beginning of time,
during the time Christ PBBUH walked this
earth, and until the end of time.

Now if Paul meant "Lord" as meaning
"nobleman", "person in position of
authority", or "title prefixed to named of
peers and barons" (all quoted from the A.L.
Dictionary of Current English), then
referring to Christ PBBUH as such would have
been fair.

It is so because with the English translation
of the Bible originating from an environment
where "Lords" abound, it would be a fair
practice to attribute the word "Lord" in its
earthly connotations to Christ PBBUH.
Needless to say that as a messenger and
prophet of Almighty God, Christ PBBUH does
indeed deserve that title, especially with
divine authority to back him up.

Perhaps it is worth mentioning that Abraham,
Jacob, and many other prophets, peace and
blessings of Almighty God be upon them
(PBBUT), were also referred to as lords. (See
Genesis 18: 12, and Genesis 32: 4).

Implying, however, like Mr. Grossi and others
of like mind do, that "Lord" actually means
"LORD", then we should refer them back to
(Numbers 23: 19) I guess. After all, it is
either Almighty God is telling the truth, or
they are. There is exclusivity here. God is
either a man, or He is not a man. And I don't
know about you, but I prefer to believe
Almighty God over anyone else.

Thirdly, In all the versions of the Bible I
have I cannot find one rendering which reads
like Mr. Grossi's quote.

Mr. Grossi's:
"... and believe in your heart that God
raised Him from the dead, you WILL
BE SAVED."
KJV:
"... and shalt believe in thine heart that
God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt
be saved." (Romans 10: 9)
RSV:
"... and believe in your heart that God raised
him from the dead, you will be saved."
(Romans 10: 9)
ASV:
".. and shalt believe in thy heart that God
raised him from the dead, thou shalt be
saved:" (Romans 10: 9)
YLT:
"... and mayest believe in thy heart that God did
raise him out of the dead, thou shalt be
saved," (Romans 10: 9)
Note that in all versions of the Bible quoted
from that Mr. Grossi's "God raised Him" is
rendered (more or less) "God raised him." The
word "him," referring to Christ PBBUH, is in
lower case. This shows that this Biblical
text, even when attributed to Paul, seems
still in keeping with the spirit of Numbers
23: 19, namely that "God is not a man ...
neither the son of a man" to deserve a
capitalized LORD, so to speak. That Mr.
Grossi or people of like mind are miss-
quoting here and then implying an anti-truth
does not make this miss-quote divine truth by
their merely repeating it.

Also do note that it reads "God raised him."
In other words, the raising is attributed
here to Almighty God, while the object of the
raising is meant to be Christ PBBUH. And
the fact that "him" was used instead of
"Himself" effectively rules out (also in
keeping with the spirit of the word of God as
found in the Bible that God is not a man)
that Christ PBBUH was ever God.
GOD WILL NOT DWELL ON THE EARTH
===============================

Mr. Grossi then proceeds to claim that:

"Over 2000 years ago God came from Heaven
to earth in the person of Jesus Christ to
shed His blood and die on a cross to pay
our sin debt in full."
It does not take much to note that this is
a claim yet to be backed up with supporting
evidence. As a matter of fact and after
reading from 1 Kings (see below) one would be
quick to conclude that this claim is yet
again made in direct contradiction to the
"word of God" as found in the Bible.

"But will God indeed dwell on the earth?
behold, the heaven and heaven of heavens
cannot contain thee; how much less this house
that I have builded?" (1 Kings 8: 27)
So, it is according to the Bible of all books
that not only "God is not a man ... neither
the son of man," but also that "God will not
dwell on the earth." Why? Not that we need to
know why, but apparently because "the heaven
and heaven of heavens cannot contain God."
Note that these are not my words. These are
verbatim words quoted from the Bible.
CHRIST WAS NOT CRUCIFIED
========================

It comes as no surprise to me that when Mr.
Grossi miss-quotes from the Bible and resorts to
quoting the very people Christ PBBUH warned
against) to attribute certain words to
Almighty God that he will arrive at the exact
opposite of what he intended for.

The holy book of the Muslims is explicitly
clear on the idea of the alleged crucifixion of
Christ PBBUH, and that of the original sin.
Muslims are told that to believe that we (as
humans) are to be held accountable for our
fathers' sins is to imply that Almighty
God, may He be glorified above all of this,
is an imperfect unjust God. That for us (as
humans) to believe that Almighty God requires
the death of an innocent man (in the person
of Christ PBBUH) to die for the mistakes of
anyone also implies that Almighty God, may He
be glorified above all of this, is an
imperfect unjust God.

But since Almighty God is PERFECT in every
way: power, knowledge, mercy, justice, etc.,
then to believe in the message of Grossi here
is to attach an imperfection to Almighty
God, and is to belittle Almighty God's
supreme qualities and Majestic Being. In fact
the Qur'an argues that people who do that
(i.e., believe that God will blame us for the
mistakes of others, or that He requires the
blood of an innocent man for the forgiving of
the sins of the guilty) are not actually
worshiping the one true God. Yes Almighty
God created everyone, but you see, He has
none of these qualities that people like
Grossi here attribute to the "God" they
worship. Hence they are worshiping somebody
or something other than the true Almighty
perfect God.

It is in this light (in spite of the repeated
messages of anyone) that it becomes revealing
if the Qur'anic claim that Christ PBBUH was
not crucified is actually verified in the
Gospels.

If we quote from the Qur'an for a change, we
read Almighty God asserting the following
while speaking of those who boast that they
killed the Messiah of God:

"That they said (in boast), "We killed Christ
Jesus the son of Mary, the Messenger of
Allah";- but they killed him not, nor
crucified him, but so it was made to appear
to them, and those who differ therein are
full of doubts, with no (certain) knowledge,
but only conjecture to follow, for of a
surety they killed him not:-"
(Translation, Qur'an, 4: 157)
This is an amazingly bold statement. One that
could have come only from one who knows the
facts. So let's study this matter in the
Bible.
COMMON GROUND
=============
If we are to examine whether Christ PBBUH was
crucified or not, we need to agree on common
ground and define (or underline the meaning
of) some words. One would have to study what
"crucified" and "resurrected" mean, and then
see whether after his alleged crucifixion and
resurrection, Christ's nature PBBUH agrees with
these definitions.
WHAT DOES CRUCIFY MEAN?
-----------------------

According to the English language crucify
means "to cause death by hanging or impaling
on the cross." Note that death has to occur
on the cross for the act of crucifixion to be
considered to have taken place.

Many people in the Philippines stage mock
"crucifixions" around the time of "Good Friday"
to mark the alleged sacrifice of Christ PBBUH.
But the mere fact, however, that these people
are brought down alive from the crosses
automatically nullifies the notion that
actual crucifixions did take place.

After all, if one is brought down from the
cross and he walks around smoking cigarettes
then he was not technically speaking
crucified. Yes, he was put up on the cross,
but since that did not cause death then
(according to the universally agreed norms of
language and reason) one cannot say that the
said man was crucified and be telling the truth.

The deficiency is in the English language
which cannot differentiate between putting
some one up on the cross and having that
person die on the cross because of being put
on it. In fact it is for this reason that
some scholars (Ahmed Deedat of South Africa)
have suggested the introduction of the word
"cruci-ficion", i.e. made-believe
crucifixion, as in a work of fiction, into the
English language.
WHAT DOES RESURRECTED MEAN?
---------------------------

Having known what crucifixion means (as
opposed to cruci-ficion) let's move on to
study the word "resurrected."

Amazingly enough, it is in the Bible the one
finds Christ PBBUH himself in the first
person defining the resurrected as follows:
"... neither can they die any more for they
are equal unto the angles ..." (Luke 20: 36) whom
the Bible explains are "spirits" (Psalms 104:
4), a definition confirmed by Paul who explains
that the resurrected have a "spiritual body"
(1 Corinthians: 15: 44).

Now having known from the Bible (of all books)
that the resurrected are spirits, ghosts, or
spooks, and that to be crucified one would
have to die on the cross, let's study the
state of Christ PBBUH after his alleged
crucifixion and resurrection to see if he
fits the definitions of these words.
THEY FORSOOK HIM AND FLED
=========================
In the Bible, you will read that at the most
crucial juncture of the life of Jesus *all* his
disciples forsook him and fled. All of them.
Read from (Mark 14: 50): "And they all forsook him,
and fled."

So the Bible reports Jesus is hanged on the
cross; this is what people were talking
about. This is what the disciples had heard
from hearsay, because they had "ALL FORSOOK
HIM AND FLED." (Mark 14: 50) (Emphasis added).
Likewise, they had heard from hearsay that
Christ PBBUH had given up the ghost on the
cross. This is what people were talking
about. This is what the absent disciples
assumed then to be the sad end to their Rabbi.

Proof of that is evident in their terror when
Christ PBBUH goes to the upper room after his
alleged crucifixion and resurrection, when he
says to them: "Peace be unto you." (Luke
24: 36). [This is the official Muslim greeting
by the way].

Instead of going to kiss and hug their Rabbi,
"they were terrified and affrighted, and
supposed that they had seen a spirit." (Luke
24: 37).

Why were they terrified? They were so because
they thought they had seen a *spirit*. After
all they had heard (as opposed to witnessed)
that Christ PBBUH had given up the ghost on the
cross.

But did they? Did they see a spirit?
A SPIRIT HATH NOT FLESH AND BONES
=================================
Speaking after his alleged crucifixion
and resurrection (when he ought to have been
a spirit), Christ PBBUH is reported as saying:

"And he said unto them, Why are ye troubled?
and why do thoughts arise in your hearts?
Behold my hands and my feet, that it is I
myself: handle me, and see; for a SPIRIT hath
not FLESH and BONES, as ye SEE me HAVE."
(Luke 24:38-39) (Emphasis is mine)
Christ PBBUH is emphatic about it: Christ
PBBUH says he was no spirit. Christ PBBUH
says he is still alive. And alive does not
equal resurrected. Must we remind ourselves
that a resurrected entity in Christ's own words
is "equal unto the angels." (Luke 20:36),
i.e., spirit, spook, ghost?
PLEASE TELL THEM
================
And so here we must ask Mr. Grossi to please
tell the truth seeker, that according to your own
scriptures that the resurrected are not
spirits, when your own Bible says they are
so. Tell them that (St.) Paul didn't define
the resurrected as having "spiritual bodies,"
(1 Corinthians: 15: 44), when he did so. Tell
them that Christ did not define the
resurrected as "equal unto the angles," (Luke
20: 36), when he preached so. Tell them that
your own scriptures does not say that the
angels are spirits, (Psalms 104: 4) when it
does so. Tell them that a spirit has flesh
and bones, when Christ himself says it is not
so. Tell them that Christ was not of flesh
and bones after he allegedly died for our
sins, when he himself says he was so. Please
tell them.

Please tell them how when asked in four
different places in the Bible "how can I
inherit eternal life?" that instead of
repeating his unchanging answer: your
salvation is in the law, keep the
commandments (See Mark 10:17-19, Luke 18:18-
20, Luke 10:25-28, and Matthew 19:16-19),
that Christ PBBUH says "believe that I am God
incarnate and you shall be saved" when he
never did so. Tell them that he answers
"believe I am part of a trinity and you shall
be saved" when he never preached so. Tell
them that he proclaims "wait until I am
crucified and then accept my sacrifice after
I am resurrected and you shall be saved" when
he never once said so. Not once. Please tell
them.
WHAT IS INIQUITY?
=================
Iniquity is injustice. This act takes place
when one is entrusted to judge in a matter
and he/she takes the right of someone and
gives to another without proof and rightfull
claim and in spite of the same.

Can you guess what is the highest form of
iniquity? It is the taking of the right to
deity (which is rightfully and uniquely
Almighty God's) and giving it to those who
don't deserve it, to those who never claimed it,
and to those who even denied it.
Almighty God says, warning us:

"And the two seas are not alike: this, fresh,
sweet, good to drink, this (other) bitter,
salt. And from them both ye eat fresh meat
and derive the ornament that ye wear. And
thou seest the ship cleaving them with its
prow that ye may seek of His bounty, and that
haply ye may give thanks.

"He maketh the night to pass into the day and
He maketh the day to pass into the night. He
hath subdued the sun and moon to service.
Each runneth unto an appointed term. Such is
Allah, your Lord; His is the Sovereignty; and
those unto whom ye pray instead of Him own
not so much as the white spot on a date-
stone.

"If ye pray unto them they hear not your
prayer, and if they heard they could not
grant it you. On the Day of Resurrection they
will disown association with you. None can
inform you like Him Who is Aware.

"O mankind! Ye are the poor in your relation
to Allah. And Allah! He is the Absolute, the
Owner of Praise.

"If He will, He can be rid of you and bring
(instead of you) some new creation. That is
not a hard thing for Allah."
(Translation, Glorious Qur'an, 35: 12-17)

As foretold by Almighty God in the Qur'anic
verse 15 shown above, Christ's PBBUH
Judgement's Day words to those who work
iniquity is amazingly confirmed in the Bible:

"Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord,
have we not prophesied in thy name? and in
thy name have cast out devils? and in thy
name done many wonderful works?

"And then will I profess unto them, I
never knew you: depart from me, ye that work
iniquity." (Matthew 7: 22-23)

Jul 19 '05 #3

P: n/a
Good gracious. I got tired just scrolling down through that mess.

That eloquent diatribe lacks only the virtue of being true.

Oabid, you have seriously been deceived by the demon posing as the false god
Allah.

"Obaid R." <yh*****@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:11**********************@l41g2000cwc.googlegr oups.com...
SUMMARY
=======

For the past few weeks, a self-professed
internet evangelist has posted several times


[lies mixed with truth thankfully snipped]
Jul 19 '05 #4

P: n/a
And y'all obviously don't care what kind of acoustic guitar your
god/gods/invisible cloud dwellers/space alien higher intelligence
plays. Which is a slightly OT but otherwise generally on-topic post
for this NG.....

Sad that you don't care about the important stuff.

Jul 19 '05 #5

P: n/a
C'mon. Everyone knows God plays a Martin.

Jul 19 '05 #6

P: n/a

Johnny Gentile wrote:
C'mon. Everyone knows God plays a Martin.


I dunno. I think God has a honkin' big collection so he won't offend
ANY luthiers when they come to visit. SOMEONE has to set up his
guitars...

mh

Jul 19 '05 #7

P: n/a
Matt Hayden wrote:
Johnny Gentile wrote:
C'mon. Everyone knows God plays a Martin.


I dunno. I think God has a honkin' big collection so he won't offend
ANY luthiers when they come to visit. SOMEONE has to set up his
guitars...

mh


1) God is a Being Who lives in Eternity and Infinity.

2) God is not a man. However, His Son, Christ Jesus, left the loftiness of
Eternity and became a Man without losing His God-Substance which He
receives from His Father. This means He is not just a man, but the God-Man.

3)He lived a pure, sinless life, and died on the Cross in our place, as the
Sacrifice for our sins. However, He did not remain in the Tomb HE was
placed in after He was taken down from the cross by those who loved Him.
Within three days, HE was raised from the dead by His Father, still the
God-Man. After 40 days on the earth, He was returned to the Father in His
Body of flesh, tho now It was glorified (made eternal by the Father). There
He is to this very day, interceeding for those who have received Him as the
Anointed One of God.

4) One day, hopefully, soon, He will return in Power and Glory to judge the
thoughts of all men, and transfer His servants from their bodies of flesh to
glorified bodies, like His.

Do not try to reason this out, since the Incarnation of Christ is not a
thing of logic and reason, but a Holy Mystery, only comprehended by faith in
those who have put their hope and trust in Him and His Sacrifice on the
Cross. Faith can easily be understood by a man with an open mind: Let us
say that there is a Sargent in the Army; his commanding officer, a General,
whose desk is a thousand miles away, and whom he has never seen, gives him a
letter containing an order. The Sargent's act of obedience to the order can
be explained as "faith", since he never saw the General, and obeys him
simply because he is his commanding officer. While we have never seen the
Father, we obey Him, because He sent a Man with orders from Him for His
servants.

Not only that, but this simple faith is testified to by the Holy Spirit
after we obey, and our steps of faith are rewarded with experiential
knowledge of God, as we learn to recognise His Hand in our lives. We obey
God simply because His Son and servants tell us to. Through time and
experience, we have learned to trust His Words, because they come to pass,
in His Time, and in His Way.

4) I doubt seriously whether God plays a guitar, since guitars are made by
men, for men. His Son could theoretically play a guitar. Perhaps He does.
Perhaps He doesn't. Only the Father and His Holy Angels know.

--
Donald L McDaniel
Please reply to the original thread,
so that the thread may be kept intact.
==============================
Jul 19 '05 #8

P: n/a
Can we stop crossposting this shit to the Beatles NG, please?
Donald L McDaniel wrote:
Matt Hayden wrote:
Johnny Gentile wrote:
C'mon. Everyone knows God plays a Martin.
I dunno. I think God has a honkin' big collection so he won't offend ANY luthiers when they come to visit. SOMEONE has to set up his
guitars...

mh


1) God is a Being Who lives in Eternity and Infinity.

2) God is not a man. However, His Son, Christ Jesus, left the

loftiness of Eternity and became a Man without losing His God-Substance which He
receives from His Father. This means He is not just a man, but the God-Man.
3)He lived a pure, sinless life, and died on the Cross in our place, as the Sacrifice for our sins. However, He did not remain in the Tomb HE was placed in after He was taken down from the cross by those who loved Him. Within three days, HE was raised from the dead by His Father, still the God-Man. After 40 days on the earth, He was returned to the Father in His Body of flesh, tho now It was glorified (made eternal by the Father). There He is to this very day, interceeding for those who have received Him as the Anointed One of God.

4) One day, hopefully, soon, He will return in Power and Glory to judge the thoughts of all men, and transfer His servants from their bodies of flesh to glorified bodies, like His.

Do not try to reason this out, since the Incarnation of Christ is not a thing of logic and reason, but a Holy Mystery, only comprehended by faith in those who have put their hope and trust in Him and His Sacrifice on the Cross. Faith can easily be understood by a man with an open mind: Let us say that there is a Sargent in the Army; his commanding officer, a General, whose desk is a thousand miles away, and whom he has never seen, gives him a letter containing an order. The Sargent's act of obedience to the order can be explained as "faith", since he never saw the General, and obeys him simply because he is his commanding officer. While we have never seen the Father, we obey Him, because He sent a Man with orders from Him for His servants.

Not only that, but this simple faith is testified to by the Holy Spirit after we obey, and our steps of faith are rewarded with experiential
knowledge of God, as we learn to recognise His Hand in our lives. We obey God simply because His Son and servants tell us to. Through time and experience, we have learned to trust His Words, because they come to pass, in His Time, and in His Way.

4) I doubt seriously whether God plays a guitar, since guitars are made by men, for men. His Son could theoretically play a guitar. Perhaps He does. Perhaps He doesn't. Only the Father and His Holy Angels know.

--
Donald L McDaniel
Please reply to the original thread,
so that the thread may be kept intact.
==============================


Jul 19 '05 #9

P: n/a
> 4) I doubt seriously whether God plays a guitar, since guitars are made by
men, for men. His Son could theoretically play a guitar. Perhaps He does.
Perhaps He doesn't. Only the Father and His Holy Angels know.

Perleeeese.

Do you really take this stuf seriously ?

It's like the ancient discussion about how many angels can dance on the
head of a pin, a lot of bullshit.

Sorry in advance to the believers amongst us, but these God Botherers
annoy the crap out of me.

Believe what you want to, but leave me alone.

MJRB
Jul 19 '05 #10

P: n/a

"Donald L McDaniel" <do*************@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:ue**************@TK2MSFTNGP15.phx.gbl...

4) I doubt seriously whether God plays a guitar, since guitars are made by
men, for men. His Son could theoretically play a guitar. Perhaps He
does. Perhaps He doesn't. Only the Father and His Holy Angels know.


So then Lucifer was a wicked bass player whose sex and drugs and rock n roll
alientated the rest of the band and was fired?
Jul 19 '05 #11

P: n/a
MC05 wrote:
"Donald L McDaniel" <do*************@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:ue**************@TK2MSFTNGP15.phx.gbl...

4) I doubt seriously whether God plays a guitar, since guitars are
made by men, for men. His Son could theoretically play a guitar. Perhaps
He does. Perhaps He doesn't. Only the Father and His Holy
Angels know.


So then Lucifer was a wicked bass player whose sex and drugs and rock
n roll alientated the rest of the band and was fired?


1) Lucifer was an angel who rebelled against God, not a member of a human
rock 'n roll band.
2) Since Lucifer is an angel, I doubt seriously whether he can play a bass
guitar or other musical instrument. As I said in my last post, musical
instruments are made by men for men, not angels.
3) Since Lucifer is an angel, he does not engage in sexual relations.
(Christ tells us that angels don't engage in sexual relations by His Own
Words.)
4) Drugs and rock 'n roll are created by men for men, not angels. And the
green plants of the Earth were created by a Gracious God for His beloved
creations, the men of the Earth.
5) Lucifer was not a member of a rock 'n roll band. He is a spirit, not a
man.
6) While we are on the subject of rock 'n roll, any such band which contains
horns is pure crap anyway (or seriously living in the dark ages). Horns
don't belong in rock 'n roll bands. Rock 'n roll has advanced light-years
beyond Elvis. It is the 21st Century, not the 20th.

--
Donald L McDaniel
Please reply to the original thread,
so that the thread may be kept intact.
==============================
Jul 19 '05 #12

P: n/a

"Donald L McDaniel" <do*************@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:%2****************@TK2MSFTNGP09.phx.gbl...
MC05 wrote:
"Donald L McDaniel" <do*************@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:ue**************@TK2MSFTNGP15.phx.gbl...

4) I doubt seriously whether God plays a guitar, since guitars are
made by men, for men. His Son could theoretically play a guitar. Perhaps He does. Perhaps He doesn't. Only the Father and His Holy
Angels know.
So then Lucifer was a wicked bass player whose sex and drugs and rock
n roll alientated the rest of the band and was fired?


1) Lucifer was an angel who rebelled against God, not a member of a human
rock 'n roll band.
2) Since Lucifer is an angel, I doubt seriously whether he can play a bass
guitar or other musical instrument. As I said in my last post, musical
instruments are made by men for men, not angels.
3) Since Lucifer is an angel, he does not engage in sexual relations.
(Christ tells us that angels don't engage in sexual relations by His Own
Words.)
4) Drugs and rock 'n roll are created by men for men, not angels. And the
green plants of the Earth were created by a Gracious God for His beloved
creations, the men of the Earth.
5) Lucifer was not a member of a rock 'n roll band. He is a spirit, not a
man.
6) While we are on the subject of rock 'n roll, any such band which

contains horns is pure crap anyway (or seriously living in the dark ages). Horns
don't belong in rock 'n roll bands. Rock 'n roll has advanced light-years
beyond Elvis. It is the 21st Century, not the 20th.

As it is the 21st Century one would think your beliefs as outlined and
enumerated would be considered even MORE "dark age" than horns in rock n
roll.
Jul 19 '05 #13

P: n/a
Donald L McDaniel wrote:
3) Since Lucifer is an angel, he does not engage in sexual relations.
(Christ tells us that angels don't engage in sexual relations by His Own
Words.)


Maybe you should take time to stop posting this inane drivel and do some
studying pertaining to the "Nephilim".....or have you just conveniently
decided to ignore the writtings of Genesis?
Jul 19 '05 #14

P: n/a

"MC05" <sm**********@myway.com> wrote in message
news:3d*************@individual.net...

"Donald L McDaniel" <do*************@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:ue**************@TK2MSFTNGP15.phx.gbl...

4) I doubt seriously whether God plays a guitar, since guitars are made by men, for men. His Son could theoretically play a guitar. Perhaps He
does. Perhaps He doesn't. Only the Father and His Holy Angels know.
So then Lucifer was a wicked bass player whose sex and drugs and rock n

roll alientated the rest of the band and was fired?


"Fired" .... good one

Jul 19 '05 #15

P: n/a

"sheltech" <qu*****@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:FE****************@newsread2.news.atl.earthli nk.net...

"MC05" <sm**********@myway.com> wrote in message
news:3d*************@individual.net...

"Donald L McDaniel" <do*************@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:ue**************@TK2MSFTNGP15.phx.gbl...
>
> 4) I doubt seriously whether God plays a guitar, since guitars are made by > men, for men. His Son could theoretically play a guitar. Perhaps He
> does. Perhaps He doesn't. Only the Father and His Holy Angels know.
So then Lucifer was a wicked bass player whose sex and drugs and rock n

roll
alientated the rest of the band and was fired?


"Fired" .... good one


Heh. Can't take credit for an accident. Your eye is better than mine. :)

Jul 19 '05 #16

P: n/a
MC05 wrote:
"sheltech" <qu*****@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:FE****************@newsread2.news.atl.earthli nk.net...

"MC05" <sm**********@myway.com> wrote in message
news:3d*************@individual.net...

"Donald L McDaniel" <do*************@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:ue**************@TK2MSFTNGP15.phx.gbl...

4) I doubt seriously whether God plays a guitar, since guitars are
made by men, for men. His Son could theoretically play a guitar.
Perhaps He does. Perhaps He doesn't. Only the Father and His Holy
Angels know.

So then Lucifer was a wicked bass player whose sex and drugs and
rock n roll alientated the rest of the band and was fired?


"Fired" .... good one


Heh. Can't take credit for an accident. Your eye is better than
mine. :)


The Devil has been fired...by God Himself. Read the Book of Revelation in
the New Testament: Satan's end is clearly outlined by the Angel Jesus sent
to St. John. This end is very clear: he will be cast alive into the Lake
which burns with fire and brimstone, where he will be tormented day and
night forever.

Not only Satan and his angels will be cast into the Lake, but all those who
follow him and his servants. I assure you, Satan won't be ruling anyone in
the Fire. He will be in just as much torment as his followers. Neither
will he have any sort of job.

I strongly advise you to stop making fun of things you have no understanding
of. Your eternal destiny depends on the way you treat others.

--
Donald L McDaniel
Please reply to the original thread,
so that the thread may be kept intact.
==============================
Jul 19 '05 #17

P: n/a
AKA

"Donald L McDaniel" <do*************@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:%2****************@TK2MSFTNGP12.phx.gbl...
MC05 wrote:
"sheltech" <qu*****@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:FE****************@newsread2.news.atl.earthli nk.net...

"MC05" <sm**********@myway.com> wrote in message
news:3d*************@individual.net...

"Donald L McDaniel" <do*************@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:ue**************@TK2MSFTNGP15.phx.gbl...
>
> 4) I doubt seriously whether God plays a guitar, since guitars are
> made by men, for men. His Son could theoretically play a guitar.
> Perhaps He does. Perhaps He doesn't. Only the Father and His Holy
> Angels know.

So then Lucifer was a wicked bass player whose sex and drugs and
rock n roll alientated the rest of the band and was fired?


"Fired" .... good one


Heh. Can't take credit for an accident. Your eye is better than
mine. :)


The Devil has been fired...by God Himself. Read the Book of Revelation in
the New Testament: Satan's end is clearly outlined by the Angel Jesus
sent to St. John. This end is very clear: he will be cast alive into the
Lake which burns with fire and brimstone, where he will be tormented day
and night forever.

Not only Satan and his angels will be cast into the Lake, but all those
who follow him and his servants. I assure you, Satan won't be ruling
anyone in the Fire. He will be in just as much torment as his followers.
Neither will he have any sort of job.

I strongly advise you to stop making fun of things you have no
understanding of. Your eternal destiny depends on the way you treat
others.

--
Donald L McDaniel
Please reply to the original thread,
so that the thread may be kept intact.
==============================

Just imagine if you actually had a coherent thought.
Jul 19 '05 #18

P: n/a
AKA wrote:
"Donald L McDaniel" <do*************@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:%2****************@TK2MSFTNGP12.phx.gbl...
MC05 wrote:
"sheltech" <qu*****@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:FE****************@newsread2.news.atl.earthli nk.net...

"MC05" <sm**********@myway.com> wrote in message
news:3d*************@individual.net...
>
> "Donald L McDaniel" <do*************@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:ue**************@TK2MSFTNGP15.phx.gbl...
>>
>> 4) I doubt seriously whether God plays a guitar, since guitars
>> are made by men, for men. His Son could theoretically play a
>> guitar. Perhaps He does. Perhaps He doesn't. Only the Father
>> and His Holy Angels know.
>
> So then Lucifer was a wicked bass player whose sex and drugs and
> rock n roll alientated the rest of the band and was fired?
>
>
>

"Fired" .... good one

Heh. Can't take credit for an accident. Your eye is better than
mine. :)


The Devil has been fired...by God Himself. Read the Book of
Revelation in the New Testament: Satan's end is clearly outlined by
the Angel Jesus sent to St. John. This end is very clear: he will
be cast alive into the Lake which burns with fire and brimstone,
where he will be tormented day and night forever.

Not only Satan and his angels will be cast into the Lake, but all
those who follow him and his servants. I assure you, Satan won't be
ruling anyone in the Fire. He will be in just as much torment as
his followers. Neither will he have any sort of job.

I strongly advise you to stop making fun of things you have no
understanding of. Your eternal destiny depends on the way you treat
others.

--
Donald L McDaniel
Please reply to the original thread,
so that the thread may be kept intact.
==============================

Just imagine if you actually had a coherent thought.


My Bible tells me that the Truth sounds like foolishness to a perishing man.
Are you perishing? God threw out a life-raft for you. Jesus is more than
willing to rescue a drowning man. Go to the nearest church(Roman Catholic,
Eastern Orthodox), and ask how you can be saved from your sin.

--
Donald L McDaniel
Please reply to the original thread,
so that the thread may be kept intact.
==============================
Jul 19 '05 #19

P: n/a
Donald - go away. Far away. Now.
And, for the last time (hopefully), stop crossposting to
rec.music.beatles.
Go sell crazy somewhere else. We're all stocked up.

Donald L McDaniel wrote:
AKA wrote:
"Donald L McDaniel" <do*************@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:%2****************@TK2MSFTNGP12.phx.gbl...
MC05 wrote:
"sheltech" <qu*****@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:FE****************@newsread2.news.atl.earthli nk.net...
>
> "MC05" <sm**********@myway.com> wrote in message
> news:3d*************@individual.net...
>>
>> "Donald L McDaniel" <do*************@yahoo.com> wrote in message>> news:ue**************@TK2MSFTNGP15.phx.gbl...
>>>
>>> 4) I doubt seriously whether God plays a guitar, since guitars
>>> are made by men, for men. His Son could theoretically play a
>>> guitar. Perhaps He does. Perhaps He doesn't. Only the Father
>>> and His Holy Angels know.
>>
>> So then Lucifer was a wicked bass player whose sex and drugs and>> rock n roll alientated the rest of the band and was fired?
>>
>>
>>
>
> "Fired" .... good one

Heh. Can't take credit for an accident. Your eye is better than
mine. :)

The Devil has been fired...by God Himself. Read the Book of
Revelation in the New Testament: Satan's end is clearly outlined by the Angel Jesus sent to St. John. This end is very clear: he will be cast alive into the Lake which burns with fire and brimstone,
where he will be tormented day and night forever.

Not only Satan and his angels will be cast into the Lake, but all
those who follow him and his servants. I assure you, Satan won't be ruling anyone in the Fire. He will be in just as much torment as
his followers. Neither will he have any sort of job.

I strongly advise you to stop making fun of things you have no
understanding of. Your eternal destiny depends on the way you treat others.

--
Donald L McDaniel
Please reply to the original thread,
so that the thread may be kept intact.
==============================
Just imagine if you actually had a coherent thought.


My Bible tells me that the Truth sounds like foolishness to a

perishing man. Are you perishing? God threw out a life-raft for you. Jesus is more than willing to rescue a drowning man. Go to the nearest church(Roman Catholic, Eastern Orthodox), and ask how you can be saved from your sin.

--
Donald L McDaniel
Please reply to the original thread,
so that the thread may be kept intact.
==============================


Jul 19 '05 #20

P: n/a
Johnny Gentile wrote:
Donald - go away. Far away. Now.
And, for the last time (hopefully), stop crossposting to
rec.music.beatles.
Go sell crazy somewhere else. We're all stocked up.

Donald L McDaniel wrote:
AKA wrote:
"Donald L McDaniel" <do*************@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:%2****************@TK2MSFTNGP12.phx.gbl...
MC05 wrote:
> "sheltech" <qu*****@earthlink.net> wrote in message
> news:FE****************@newsread2.news.atl.earthli nk.net...
>>
>> "MC05" <sm**********@myway.com> wrote in message
>> news:3d*************@individual.net...
>>>
>>> "Donald L McDaniel" <do*************@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>>> news:ue**************@TK2MSFTNGP15.phx.gbl...
>>>>
>>>> 4) I doubt seriously whether God plays a guitar, since guitars
>>>> are made by men, for men. His Son could theoretically play a
>>>> guitar. Perhaps He does. Perhaps He doesn't. Only the Father
>>>> and His Holy Angels know.
>>>
>>> So then Lucifer was a wicked bass player whose sex and drugs and
>>> rock n roll alientated the rest of the band and was fired?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>> "Fired" .... good one
>
> Heh. Can't take credit for an accident. Your eye is better than
> mine. :)

The Devil has been fired...by God Himself. Read the Book of
Revelation in the New Testament: Satan's end is clearly outlined
by the Angel Jesus sent to St. John. This end is very clear: he
will be cast alive into the Lake which burns with fire and
brimstone, where he will be tormented day and night forever.

Not only Satan and his angels will be cast into the Lake, but all
those who follow him and his servants. I assure you, Satan won't
be ruling anyone in the Fire. He will be in just as much torment
as his followers. Neither will he have any sort of job.

I strongly advise you to stop making fun of things you have no
understanding of. Your eternal destiny depends on the way you
treat others.

--
Donald L McDaniel
Please reply to the original thread,
so that the thread may be kept intact.
==============================

Just imagine if you actually had a coherent thought.


My Bible tells me that the Truth sounds like foolishness to a
perishing man. Are you perishing? God threw out a life-raft for
you. Jesus is more than willing to rescue a drowning man. Go to
the nearest church(Roman Catholic, Eastern Orthodox), and ask how
you can be saved from your sin.

--
Donald L McDaniel
Please reply to the original thread,
so that the thread may be kept intact.
==============================


1) I am posting to a newsgroup on the Microsoft Usenet Server. It's not my
fault the demon-lover who posted the original anti-Christian article
cross-posted to so many newsgroups across so many servers. Talk to him
about cross-posting.
1) I will go away, when Christ returns for me. I hope you are ready for His
return, else you are in for a living Hell here on the Earth before the REAL
Hell rises up to swallow you in its Flames.

--
Donald L McDaniel
Please reply to the original thread,
so that the thread may be kept intact.
==============================
Jul 19 '05 #21

P: n/a
Donald L McDaniel wrote:
1) I am posting to a newsgroup on the Microsoft Usenet Server. It's not my fault the demon-lover who posted the original anti-Christian article
cross-posted to so many newsgroups across so many servers. Talk to him about cross-posting.
1) I will go away, when Christ returns for me. I hope you are ready for His return, else you are in for a living Hell here on the Earth before the REAL Hell rises up to swallow you in its Flames.

--
Donald L McDaniel
Please reply to the original thread,
so that the thread may be kept intact.
==============================

And the demon lover would be the one who
quotes from the "word of God" as reported in
your own Bible which proclaims that "God is
not a man ... neither the son of man"
(Numbers 23: 19)? Is it your contention that
this is demonic truth? See what the world is
comming to?

And it was not I who originally cross-posted
as you claim. I was replying to Mr. Grossi
who did start the cross-posting. Does your
words: "the demon-lover who posted the
original anti-Christian article cross-posted
to so many newsgroups across so many servers"
apply to him? Here is a quote from the head
of his original post:
From: RonGrossi382...@yahoo.com
Newsgroups:

Microsoft.public.windowsxp.network_web,rec.music.b eatles,rec.music.makers.guitar.acoustic,alt.showbi z.gossip,comp.lang.python

In case you are interested in comparitive
religion then maybe these links might be of
help:
Qur'an:
=======
[1] Download a free Qur'an viewer:
http://www.divineislam.co.uk/
Audio:
======
[1] Christ in Islam - Parts 1, 2 & 3; a lecture by Ahmed Deedat.
http://islam.org/audio/ra622_1.ram

[2] Crucification: Fact or Fiction - Parts 1, & 2; a Christain Muslim
debate in the USA with a Christian and Muslim audience in attendence.
http://islam.org/audio/ra622_3.ram

[3] Is the Bible God's Word - Parts 1, & 2; a Christian Muslim debate
in the USA with a Christian and Muslim audience in attendence.
http://islam.org/audio/ra622_4.ram

[4] Audio & Video Files; Misc. topics.
http://www.beconvinced.com/SPEECHES.htm
Articles and booklets:
======================
[1] Christ In Islam by Sheikh Ahmad Deedat.
http://www.thestraightway.com/literature/0011.html

[2] What Does the Bible Say about Mohammed (PBUH)? by Sheikh Ahmad
Deedat.
http://www.thestraightway.com/literature/0014.html

[3] The God That Never Was by Sheikh Ahmad Deedat.
http://www.thestraightway.com/literature/0016.html

[4] What was the Sign of Jonah? by Sheikh Ahmad Deedat.
http://www.thestraightway.com/literature/0017.html

[5] Who moved the Stone? by Sheikh Ahmad Deedat.
http://www.thestraightway.com/literature/0018.html

[6] Resurrection or Resuscitation? by Sheikh Ahmad Deedat.
http://www.thestraightway.com/literature/0019.html

[7] Other work by Sheikh Ahmed Deedat.
http://www.jamaat.net/deedat.htm

Jul 19 '05 #22

P: n/a
Larry Bates,

I truly appreciate the dignified tone of your
response. Kindly allow me to respond.
IN SPITE OF THE BIBLE, NOT BECAUSE OF IT?
=========================================
First I do apologize for the earlier long
discourse; I am afraid this might be just as
long. There is much to discuss and I try
to be through.

Having said that, and to respond to your
point, please be informed that I did not take
any scripture out of context so as to reach a
conclusion of my own. If you'd be kind enough
to point out one incident I will promptly
apologize and will take it back.

With that said, I hope you are fair enough to
agree that if someone makes a claim that then
the same person should back that claim up with
proof. That out of context claim you make,
brother, is made without proof.

Please tell us how Christ the "man" (Acts 2:
22), and "the son of man" (Luke 9: 58) are
not part of the Christian textual sources
or how they were taken out of context. How
is that when it is proclaimed in the Law
attributed to Almighty God that "God is not a
man ... neither the son of man" (Numbers 23:
19) that this part of the Law (given Acts 2:22,
and Luke 9: 58) is not applicable to Christ
PBBUH or any other man and son of man from
the beginning of time until the end of time.

You see, Larry, if someone were to write an
essay and post satellite images in support
of the fact that earth is spherical, anyone
defending the false notion that the earth is
flat can simply counter: "you are taking
things out of context." But these words will
not do, as any fair person can confirm.
Without proof, a claim is what it is: just a
claim. The burden of proof is on the one who
makes the point to prove it, not on the other
party to refute what was not proven.

In my case, proof was offered in defence of
my assertions from what Christian authorities
themselves regard as Christian textual
sources of divine origin. Does that not carry
enough weight for you so as to be convinced?

If people will read in their textual sources
that "God is not a man ... neither the son of
man" and *yet* go on to believe in- and even
argue the exact opposite of that- just
because they have an opinion, then what is the
Bible for then? If people are going to believe
that Christ the "man" (Acts 2:22), and the "son
of man" (Luke 9: 58) is Almighty God Himself
in spite of Numbers (among others), then what
is the point of these people having textual
sources for their beliefs?

Wouldn't it be better if these people got
together, sat down, and wrote a novel and
made a religion out of it? This is what the
Church of Scientology did. Perhaps then that
novel would agree with their man-made
beliefs, namely that "God is a man and is the
son of man" in spite of (Numbers 23: 19)?
That "God will dwell on the earth" in spite
of (1 Kings 8: 27)? That "there are other
'Gods' with God" and that "there is now someone
like unto God" in spite of (Isaiah 46:9)? And
so on and so forth?

After all, let's face it, Larry, the novel is
there inside your (plural) head, and it is
from which you are all reading to us that
Christ PBBUH the "man" and "the son of man"
is actually God; but whether you realize it
or not, you are doing so in spite of the word
of God as found in the Bible, not because of it.
I truly don't know how to make a mention of
this and not appear like I wish to offend
you, which is truly not my intention, but I
must inform you anyway: does the word "anti"
ring any bells?
PLURAL GOD?
===========
Do you believe that God is one or not? Was it
not Christ PBBUH himself who said that the
"Lord our God is one Lord" (as opposed to a
"tri-une" Lord) or was he not? Is there a
single explicit mention of the word "Trinity"
in the entire encyclopaedia of books called
the Bible? Just one? There is none, can you
believe it?
THE DONKEY RIDE
---------------

Please read from the New Testament:

"... and they sat him thereon." (The Donkey)
(Matthew 21:7)

"... and he sat upon him." (The Donkey)
(Mark 11:7)

"... and they set Jesus thereon." (The Donkey)
(Luke 19:35)

"... Jesus ... sat thereon:" (The Donkey)
(John 12:14)
In "Is The Bible God's Word"[1], Ahmed
Deedat writes:

"Could God Almighty have been the author of
this incongruous situation - going out of His
Way to see that all the Gospel writers did
not miss their footing recording of His
"son's" donkey-ride into the Holy City - and
yet "inspiring" them to blackout the news
about His "son's" heavenly flight on the
wings of angels?"
I note the exact same amazing situation here. Why is
it so important to have all the Gospels
mention the donkey incident but not have one single
explicit remark anywhere about what effectively will
decide the eternal fate (repeat: eternal
fate) of many: the alleged "trinity"?
Astonishing, no?
WHY NOT A PENTINITY?
--------------------
Yes "as humans we will never fully understand
the Trinity in this lifetime," but so would
be the case, I put it to you, concerning
"dualnity," (as in two) "quadrupinity",
"pentinity", etc., if there is actually such
words. You see the issue is not merely that our
minds are unable to deal with these
impossible concepts, but also (and equally
importantly) that we must remember that these
concepts were never explicitly mentioned in
the word of God. And so the question that
faces us is this: why a "trinity," and not a
"pentinity"?

Any person can make up things in any aggregate
along the lines of your crude (yet unproven
theory) of what makes God like a man, even when it is
the Bible that states not only that "God is not a
man ... neither the son of man" (Numbers 23:
19), but also that "God is a Spirit" (John
4:24).

Nevertheless, one can add charisma, and the subconscious
mind to your physical, spiritual, and
emotional "aspects" and get that imaginary
"penta-une" false god to be also like man, so
as to make a man into Almighty God, may He be
glorified above all of this. No, Larry. God
is one, period. This is all human invention
and has nothing to do with divine
revelations.

Moreover, do you not see that by saying "Tri"
that you are automatically arguing for
plurality in God? One does not equal three,
Larry, not logically, and not linguistically.
All the universally agreed norms of language
and reason and even algebra are lined up in
defence of God against such illogical
notions. Not that Almighty God needs any
defence.
READ
====

I have read for C. S. Lewis and if I am not
mistaken, seen Josh McDowell lecture on TBN.
But the matter is different here, Larry. I
don't know about McDowell, but I know that C.
S. Lewis was questioning the existence of
God, not whether or not if he believed in a
"trinity" and in Christ PBBUH the "man" and
"son of man" as God that he would then be
doing so in spite of the word of God as
reported in the Bible, not because of it.

And since you made that offer, then allow me
to suggest you read the Qur'an. There is
truly no excuse for anyone not to read it,
especially that it is even available online
for free download.[2]

By the way, did you know that the first verse
revealed on prophet Muhammad PBBUH was
"Read!" upon which the prophet replied to
angel Gabriel PBBUH: "I am not learned." And
this, we hold, is a direct fulfillment of
Isaiah 29:12:

"And the book is delivered to him that is not
learned, saying, Read this, I pray thee: and
he saith, I am not learned."
(Isaiah 29: 12)
Here is the first revealed verses of the Qur'an:

"Read: In the name of thy Lord Who createth,
Createth man from a clot. Read: And thy Lord
is the Most Bounteous, Who teacheth by the
pen, Teacheth man that which he knew not."
(Translation, Qur'an, 96: 1)

OPINION VS. DIVINE REVELATIONS
==============================
You and I are entitled to our opinions, as
is the case for all the people of this earth.
These might even matter to someone. When
it comes to the issues of the unseen, however,
then our opinions (including mine I assure
you!) are just worthless. It is not within us
to have our minds dwell in the unseen. This
is the job of divine revelations. This is
their sole purpose: to reveal to us from the
world of the unseen that which we cannot
grasp or know on our own.

If you and I and everyone else are going to
make our opinions matter more than divine
revelations then not only would we be deceiving
ourselves that our inconsequential opinion is
now divine truth (which it is not), but we
would also be very likely at odds with Almighty
God's truth.

HOW DO WE INHERIT ETERNAL LIFE?
===============================
Your point that there is only one way to God
is a valid one. The issue is not that, but
whether you and I are following that only
way; or to keep to the topic of this thread,
whether Grossi's post accurately describes
that way.

You say that Christ PBBUH is the only way,
but did you know that Christ PBBUH is not
even your designated prophet? Believe it or
not Muhammad PBBUH is. And I know this might
come as a shock, but they both peace and
blessings of Almighty God be upon them PBBUT,
preached the same religion: the worship of
one God, we inherit heaven by keeping the
law and the commandments, i.e. surrendering
one's will to Almighty God, which is Islam in
a nutshell. They even prayed the same! In
Matthew 26:39 we are told that Christ PBBUH
"fell on his face, and prayed!" Must I remind
you who else falls on their faces to pray?

Moreover, and on at least two occasions in
the Bible, Christ PBBUH is explicitly
proclaiming that he was sent only to the lost
sheep of the house of Israel, not to anyone
else of the Gentiles.

"But he answered and said, I am not sent but
unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel."
(Matthew 15: 24) (see also Matthew 10:6).

And so even when he was the way, Christ PBBUH
was so to his people of the house of Israel
only (and this not according to my convenient
opinion, but according to the reported first
person words attributed to Christ PBBUH), and
only in the span of time that he lived on
earth, and hence this excludes people of
times past and future, especially of the
Gentiles.

With that said, it is indeed true that people
will struggle to come to terms that Islam (of
all religions) is God's divine Truth, which
it is. That is, I have come to believe, is
mankind's present test.

Will they contemplate that they might be
utterly misguided, that Islam of all
religions is the God's Truth, that its Arab
prophet PBBUH of the third world is actually
the seal of the Almighty God's prophets, the
comforter that Christ PBBUH foretold? Will
they follow their pride or will they let
their minds decide?

To have Christianity as the Truth temptation of
mankind makes no sense. The Christian West
boasts to have the power, the money, the
science-- they boast they have everything.
Earthly that is. So they must be right in
worshiping a "trinity"? Right?

But that is an easy test, Larry. If Islam was
the Truth and a Muslim failed the test and
worshiped a "trinity" in stead of his one
true God, he might think that he will gain
something in this world. But a Christian who
gives up the "trinity" and his earthly
wealth, power, and pride that comes with the
magic of the West actually seems to many that
he will lose according to the earthly ways.
No? which is the tougher test, Larry, you
tell me.

A tougher test would be to have you choose
between that alleged earthly power and wealth
and Almighty God's truth, even if hidden in
the weakest and most poor of places. Or was
Christ PBBUH wealthy and powerful compared to
the scribes and Pharisees or the Romans?
David PBBUH to Saul? Moses PBBUH to Pharaoh?
Don't you see the pattern here?

If Christ PBBUH was really "son of God" in
the literal sense or "God" as per the
scripture and word of God, we would be the
first to worship, Larry.

"Say: "If (Allah) Most Gracious had a son, I
would be the first to worship." Glory to the
Lord of the heavens and the earth, the Lord
of the Throne (of Authority)! (He is free)
from the things they attribute (to him)!"
(Translation, Qur'an 43: 81-82)

But he is not so. And this according to your
own scriptures. People are making Christ "God,"
and believing him to have been crucified and
later resurrected in spite of "the word of
God" as found in the Bible, not because of
it. The only way you can make your beliefs
agree with your sources is if either you
replace them with something that matches your
claims, or that you expunge those parts from
the present scripture that testify that
Christ is "a man" and "son of man" and that
"God is not a man ... neither the son of man"
and that the resurrected are spirits equal
unto the angels having spiritual bodies. For
while these things are still in your Bible
then you have a serious problem.
Here is an ex-practicing American Christian
sharing his thoughts on a topic related to
our discussion:

"I remember thinking a few years ago, when I
was studying about Christianity and Islam,
that it sure would be nice to have Jesus
around today so that I could go up and ask
him two questions: 1) Is it more important to
believe that God is "One" or "Tri-une"? and
2) What do I need to do in order to get into
Heaven? However, once I thought about it a
bit more, I realized that I already had
answers to these questions! The New Testament
shows how Jesus EXPLICITLY and CLEARLY
answered both of these questions - not to
mention the Qur'an! How could a prophet doing
the work of Almighty God do otherwise? If
something such as the "Doctrine of the
Trinity" or having Jesus as one's "Lord and
Personal Savior" is so important, it would be
unjust - if not criminal - for it not to be
an explicit teaching. It should be kept in
mind that Jesus' audience was made up mostly
of Jews, so when he mentioned "One God", they
certainly understood it in an absolute and
non-Trinitarian way.

"Those of you who don't already know Jesus',
peace be upon him, clear answers to these
direct questions, please see Mark 12:28-34;
Matthew 22:35-40; Matthew 19:16-17; Mark
10:17-19 and Luke 18:18-20.

"On top of all this, the New Testament says
that Jesus, peace be upon him, went around
preaching "the gospel". (See Matthew 4:23,
9:35, 11:5; Mark 1:15, 8:35; Luke 4:18, 7:22,
9:6 and 20:1). Based on this fact, Christians
should be able to COMPLETELY derive their
doctrines and "Gospel message" from the words
of Jesus as reported in the New Testament.
However, everyone who has taken a look at the
evidence should be able to conclude that
Christians certainly cannot do this - they
have to appeal to the epistles of Paul and to
an innovated Trinitarian vocabulary. So what
was this "gospel" that Jesus was preaching?
Was it CLEARLY the Divine Incarnation, the
Atonement and the Trinity? I certainly feel
that the longest and most eloquent sermon in
the New Testament (Matthew 5-7), commonly
know as "The Sermon on the Mount", lends
support to the Pure Monotheism of Islam, not
to Trinitarian Christian belief."[3]

Peace,
Obaid

RESOURCES
=========
[1] Deedat, Ahmed, Is The Bible God's Word, March 1980. April 2005:
http://www.ahmed-deedat.co.za/bible/index.html.
[2] Download a free Qur'an viewer: http://www.divineislam.co.uk/
[3] Squires, Robert, "A Muslim Response to a Christian Response." April
30, 2005:
http://thetruereligion.org/modules/w...eid=261&page=0


PS: I posted a response to BrianQ here:
http://groups-beta.google.com/group/...c5b14460?hl=en

Jul 19 '05 #23

P: n/a
Non-Offensive, Professional Sounding Name
First of all, there was no "diatribe", even
when you can claim there was one. Unless of
course you consider the contents of the Bible
from which I quote as such. Seeing that you
claimed that there was no truth in my post, I
was hoping to read proof in support of your
claim. To my disappointment, there was none.
Just a reference to the word "Allah" made,
alas, in haste.

I wish that you'd considered your words
before you rushed to post. I say that for the
following reason: did you know that there are
around 26 million Christian Arabs living in
the world today? Did you know that their
Arabic Bibles (together with their Arab Jews
brethren) have the word "Allah" exactly where
the word "God" appears in your English Bible?

Furthermore, did you know that in Malta, made
up of a population of staunch Catholics,
people use the word "Allah" for God in their
own language?

Perhaps you'd be interested in reading "Who
is Allah?"[1] and "The Word ALLAH in the
Arabic Bible"[2] both essays by Abu Iman 'Abd
ar-Rahman Robert Squires.

And in case you don't believe either of us,
then visit these links from
bible.gospelcom.net showing you how the word
"Allah" does appear in the Arabic Bible where
the word "God" appears in the English one.

FROM THE ARABIC BIBLE
=====================

Genesis 1: 1
In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth.
http://bible.gospelcom.net/bible?pas...on&showxref=on
Genesis 1: 8:
And God called the firmament Heaven. And there was evening and there
was morning, a second day.
http://bible.gospelcom.net/bible?pas...on&showxref=on
Mark 10: 18
And Jesus said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good
but one, that is, God.
http://bible.gospelcom.net/bible?pas...on&showxref=on
John 3: 16
For God so loved the world that he gave his only Son, that whoever
believes in him should not perish but have eternal life.
http://bible.gospelcom.net/bible?pas...on&showxref=on
Luke 3: 38
the son of Enos, the son of Seth, the son of Adam, the son of God.
http://bible.gospelcom.net/bible?pas...on&showxref=on
Mark 1: 14
Now after John was arrested, Jesus came into Galilee, preaching the
gospel of God,
http://bible.gospelcom.net/bible?pas...on&showxref=on

Mark 3: 35
Whoever does the will of God is my brother, and sister, and mother.
http://bible.gospelcom.net/bible?pas...on&showxref=on

RESOURCES
=========

[1] Squires, Robert, "Who is Allah?" April 30, 2005:
http://www.wol.net.pk/truth/6who.htm
[2] Squires, Robert, "The Word ALLAH in the Arabic Bible" April 30,
2005: http://www.wol.net.pk/truth/6aib.htm

Jul 19 '05 #24

P: n/a
>From the Book of Armaments:

"And Saint Attila raised the hand grenade up on high,
saying, 'Oh, Lord, bless this thy hand grenade that with it thou
mayest blow thy enemies to tiny bits, in thy mercy.' And the Lord
did grin, and people did feast upon the lambs, and sloths, and
carp, and anchovies, and orangutans, and breakfast cereals, and
fruit bats..."
"And the Lord spake, saying, 'First shalt thou take out
the Holy Pin. Then, shalt thou count to three, no more, no less.
Three shalt be the number thou shalt count, and the number of the
counting shalt be three. Four shalt thou not count, nor either
count thou two, excepting that thou then proceed to three. Five is
right out. Once the number three, being the third number, be
reached, then lobbest thou thy Holy Hand Grenade of Antioch towards
thou foe, who being naughty in my sight, shall snuff it.'"

Jul 19 '05 #25

P: n/a

Johnny Gentile wrote:
C'mon. Everyone knows God plays a Martin.

But He also has a de Jonge or two...

Also, i've heard that Satan plays an
old, beat up Takamine.... it's NEVER in
tune, the action is ultra-high, and
it buzzes like mad.

Slick

Jul 19 '05 #26

P: n/a
It must be because there aren't enough real problems that so many people
devote so much energy to inventing so many imaginary ones.

Frederic

(GOD tells me---much against my will; I categorically refuse to be a
prophet!---to throw this piece of HIS divine wisdom into the melee.)
----- Original Message -----
From: "Obaid R." <yh*****@yahoo.com>
Newsgroups: microsoft.public.windowsxp.network_web,
rec.music.beatles,rec.music.makers.guitar.acoustic ,
alt.showbiz.gossip,comp.lang.python
To: <py*********@python.org>
Sent: Saturday, April 30, 2005 10:39 PM
Subject: Re: Ron Grossi: God is not a man

Non-Offensive, Professional Sounding Name
First of all, there was no "diatribe", even
when you can claim there was one. Unless of
course you consider the contents of the Bible
from which I quote as such. Seeing that you
claimed that there was no truth in my post, I
was hoping to read proof in support of your
claim. To my disappointment, there was none.
Just a reference to the word "Allah" made,
alas, in haste.

I wish that you'd considered your words
before you rushed to post. I say that for the
following reason: did you know that there are
around 26 million Christian Arabs living in
the world today? Did you know that their
Arabic Bibles (together with their Arab Jews
brethren) have the word "Allah" exactly where
the word "God" appears in your English Bible?

Furthermore, did you know that in Malta, made
up of a population of staunch Catholics,
people use the word "Allah" for God in their
own language?

Perhaps you'd be interested in reading "Who
is Allah?"[1] and "The Word ALLAH in the
Arabic Bible"[2] both essays by Abu Iman 'Abd
ar-Rahman Robert Squires.

And in case you don't believe either of us,
then visit these links from
bible.gospelcom.net showing you how the word
"Allah" does appear in the Arabic Bible where
the word "God" appears in the English one.

FROM THE ARABIC BIBLE
=====================

Genesis 1: 1
In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth.
http://bible.gospelcom.net/bible?pas...ic&version=IBS
&showfn=on&showxref=on

Genesis 1: 8:
And God called the firmament Heaven. And there was evening and there
was morning, a second day.
http://bible.gospelcom.net/bible?pas...ic&version=IBS
&showfn=on&showxref=on

Mark 10: 18
And Jesus said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good
but one, that is, God.
http://bible.gospelcom.net/bible?pas...rabic&version=
IBS&showfn=on&showxref=on

John 3: 16
For God so loved the world that he gave his only Son, that whoever
believes in him should not perish but have eternal life.
http://bible.gospelcom.net/bible?pas...abic&version=I
BS&showfn=on&showxref=on

Luke 3: 38
the son of Enos, the son of Seth, the son of Adam, the son of God.
http://bible.gospelcom.net/bible?pas...abic&version=I
BS&showfn=on&showxref=on

Mark 1: 14
Now after John was arrested, Jesus came into Galilee, preaching the
gospel of God,
http://bible.gospelcom.net/bible?pas...abic&version=I
BS&showfn=on&showxref=on
Mark 3: 35
Whoever does the will of God is my brother, and sister, and mother.
http://bible.gospelcom.net/bible?pas...abic&version=I
BS&showfn=on&showxref=on


RESOURCES
=========

[1] Squires, Robert, "Who is Allah?" April 30, 2005:
http://www.wol.net.pk/truth/6who.htm
[2] Squires, Robert, "The Word ALLAH in the Arabic Bible" April 30,
2005: http://www.wol.net.pk/truth/6aib.htm

--
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list


Jul 19 '05 #27

P: n/a
Donald L McDaniel wrote:
AKA wrote:
"Donald L McDaniel" <do*************@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:%2****************@TK2MSFTNGP12.phx.gbl.. .
MC05 wrote:

"sheltech" <qu*****@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:FE****************@newsread2.news.atl.ear thlink.net...

>"MC05" <sm**********@myway.com> wrote in message
>news:3d*************@individual.net...
>
>>"Donald L McDaniel" <do*************@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>>news:ue**************@TK2MSFTNGP15.phx.gbl.. .
>>
>>>4) I doubt seriously whether God plays a guitar, since guitars
>>>are made by men, for men. His Son could theoretically play a
>>>guitar. Perhaps He does. Perhaps He doesn't. Only the Father
>>>and His Holy Angels know.
>>
>>So then Lucifer was a wicked bass player whose sex and drugs and
>>rock n roll alientated the rest of the band and was fired?
>>
>>
>>
>
>"Fired" .... good one

Heh. Can't take credit for an accident. Your eye is better than
mine. :)

The Devil has been fired...by God Himself. Read the Book of
Revelation in the New Testament: Satan's end is clearly outlined by
the Angel Jesus sent to St. John. This end is very clear: he will
be cast alive into the Lake which burns with fire and brimstone,
where he will be tormented day and night forever.

Not only Satan and his angels will be cast into the Lake, but all
those who follow him and his servants. I assure you, Satan won't be
ruling anyone in the Fire. He will be in just as much torment as
his followers. Neither will he have any sort of job.

I strongly advise you to stop making fun of things you have no
understanding of. Your eternal destiny depends on the way you treat
others.

--
Donald L McDaniel
Please reply to the original thread,
so that the thread may be kept intact.
==============================


Just imagine if you actually had a coherent thought.

My Bible tells me that the Truth sounds like foolishness to a perishing man.
Are you perishing? God threw out a life-raft for you. Jesus is more than
willing to rescue a drowning man. Go to the nearest church(Roman Catholic,
Eastern Orthodox), and ask how you can be saved from your sin.

So God only likes the Roman Catholic, Eastern Orthodox churches?
Jul 19 '05 #28

P: n/a
Just go away from RMMGA
Jul 19 '05 #29

This discussion thread is closed

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