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[EVALUATION] - E02 - Support for MinGW Open Source Compiler

P: n/a
I'm a newcomer to python:

[EVALUATION] - E01: The Java Failure - May Python Helps?
http://groups-beta.google.com/group/...f0c5c35374f553

-

I've download (as suggested) the python 2.4 installer for windows.

Now I have problems to compile python extension that some packages
depend on.

I use the MinGW open-source compiler.

-

My questions:

a) Why does the Python Foundation not provide additionally a binary
version, compiled with MinGW or another open-source compiler?

b) Why does the Python Foundation not ensure, that the python
source-code is directly compilable with MinGW?

c) Why are the following efforts not _directly_ included in the python
source code base?

http://jove.prohosting.com/iwave/ipython/pyMinGW.html

above link found in this thread:

http://groups-beta.google.com/group/...f0444c467de525

d) Is it really neccessary that I dive into such adventures, to be able
to do the most natural thing like: "developing python extensions with
MinGW"?

http://starship.python.net/crew/kern...w32/Notes.html

e) Is there any official statement available regarding the msvcr71.dll
and other MS licensing issues?

[see several threads "[Python-Dev] Is msvcr71.dll re-redistributable?"]

http://mail.python.org/pipermail/pyt...ry/thread.html

f) Are there any official (Python Foundation) statements / rationales
available, which explain why the MinGW compiler is unsupported, although
parts of the community obviously like to use it?

http://groups-beta.google.com/group/...3474e6c8053336

-

I just want to understand.

Thankfull for any pointer to official documents / statements.

[google is _not_ a fried here. I like to have a stable development
environment, which is supported by the official projects, thus it can
pass quality-assurance without beeing afraid about every next release.]

..

--
http://lazaridis.com
Jul 18 '05
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P: n/a
Fredrik Lundh wrote:
Ilias Lazaridis wrote:

Should a professional developer take python serious?

yes.


Should I take answers serious?

yes.

Answer from people which do not respect coherence of writings?

coherence of writings?


Ironic, is it not?

I think he's referring to the fact that you snipped some of the email
you were replying to.

--
Robert Kern
rk***@ucsd.edu

"In the fields of hell where the grass grows high
Are the graves of dreams allowed to die."
-- Richard Harter
Jul 18 '05 #151

P: n/a
Ilias Lazaridis wrote:
Should I take answers serious?
If not, why are you asking questions in the first place?
Answer from people which do not respect coherence of writings?
Coherence of writings?
Should a professional developer take python serious?
Yes.
I mean, if the team does not manage at least the foundation of a
multi-target automated-build-process?


If the team *would* not manage at least the foundation of a
multi-target automated-build-process, a professional developer
*should* not take python serious.

However, since the team *does* manage at least the foundation of
a multi-target automated-build-process, a professional developer
*might* take python serious.

[a false premise can imply anything]

Regards,
Martin
Jul 18 '05 #152

P: n/a
Pat wrote:
On Windows, most users are used to installing precompiled binary
packages, rather than compiling from source. When you do have to
compile from source, it often requires you to fiddle with nitty gritty
details about which you'd rather remain ignorant. The less fiddling
required, the happier the user will be, and the easier it will be for
that product to get adopted on that platform. No psychic abilities are
required. No Python abilities are required, either, for that matter.
;-)


And the fact that building *any* Windows native program without commercial
software is a PITA is the py-dev crew's fault, how?

The python.org releases provide pre-built binaries for Windows, support for
compiling Windows extensions with various compilers (including MinGW), and
autoconf/automake support for POSIX-ish platforms (including Cygwin).

For native Windows compilation of the interpreter, they support MSVC6 and MSVC7.1.

If you're a serious commercial Windows shop, you will have one of the Microsoft
compiler suites installed *somewhere*. At that point, building your own version
of Python is trivial.

Which leaves the hobbyists, and those companies which, for whatever reason,
choose not to use Visual Studio to build C/C++ code on Windows.

If it meets your needs, the easiest solution is to build a non-native version
using Cygwin (./configure, make, make altinstall). That's what I currently do,
as the easiest free way to hack Python on a Windows box.

Which means our target group is now only those who want to build a Windows
Python binary, and don't want to use Visual Studio, and don't want to use Cygwin
(hmm, the group under discussion must be getting rather small by now).

Anyway, to support this group, the real thing that is needed is a tool to
translate the MSVC7.1 solution files into GNU make files (so the MSYS make
utility can parse them and invoke MinGW or the free MS compiler appropriately)

For anyone who actually wants to make this work, this message summarises where I
got to before giving up and switching to a different platform for builds:
http://mail.python.org/pipermail/pyt...st/047215.html

Things have moved on since then - the Python project files no longer reference
the unneeded ODBC libraries, but they do reference options the version of
vcproj2make in the python-dev archives doesn't understand.

Also, vcproj2make has a dependency on PyXML, which isn't necessarily obvious
from the error message you get when the sln parser fails to work.

It can be done, and it could be automated, but it doesn't take a Python core
hacker to do it - it takes someone who cares about it, and understands GNU make
and Python well enough to maintain vcproj2make.

To finish the job, someone would need to:
1. Commit to maintaining vcproj2make
2. Get Garth to put a real license on it
3. Finish it well enough that it works on the Python PCBuild directory
4. Provide instructions (and possibly a script) for building Python with
vcproj2make, MSYS and MinGW.
5. See about including those instructions in Python CVS

(MinGW is probably a better option than the free MS compiler, since the files
you need aren't scattered all over the MS website, embedded in over 300 MB worth
of downloads, and you aren't bound by the MS EULA. Don't go redistributing
msvcr71.dll though)

The trick is finding someone who cares enough, or someone who will pay someone
to care enough - I cared for a while, but not enough to finish it. For what I
want (hacking the interpreter core), Cygwin suffices, and it's a hell of a lot
easier.

The pyMinGW folks appear to care, but for reasons best known to them, have
chosen to track the PCBuild project files manually, rather than automating the
process. They've also chosen to maintain separate files on their own site,
rather than providing diff's and submitting appropriate patches to improve MinGW
support in the main Python CVS. *shrug* Their call.

Cheers,
Nick.

P.S. if Ilias volunteers, or offers to pay someone to do this, instead of just
complaining, will hell freeze over?)

--
Nick Coghlan | nc******@email.com | Brisbane, Australia
---------------------------------------------------------------
http://boredomandlaziness.skystorm.net
Jul 18 '05 #153

P: n/a
> If you put yourself into the shoes of someone who decides to use a
Python product that requires compiling, and that product contains C
extensions that also need compiling, you'll see that it doesn't matter
whether or not that individual has actually written a single line of
Python themselves. If the compiling process is not easy, then that
user will be forced to fiddle with nitty gritty details about which
they'd rather remain ignorant.
If an extension for python is written in C, usually the extension will be
available in binary form. As the porting from unix to windows takes some
effort, an extension needs testing on windows anyway. So unless you develop
extensions yourself, you don't need a compiler at all.
On Linux, I've installed and used/compiled products in a variety of
languages in which I've never written a single line of source code
myself. In most cases the process works fairly well. When it doesn't,
I'm forced to fiddle with nitty gritty details about which I'd rather
remain ignorant. The result is usually a good deal of frustration and
anger on my part. On Windows, most users are used to installing precompiled binary
packages, rather than compiling from source. When you do have to
compile from source, it often requires you to fiddle with nitty gritty
details about which you'd rather remain ignorant. The less fiddling
required, the happier the user will be, and the easier it will be for
that product to get adopted on that platform. No psychic abilities are
required. No Python abilities are required, either, for that matter.
;-)


We're not talking end users here. If you have a product developed, you can
ship that - including binary parts compiled for windows.

If I recall your earlier post correctly, you wanted to use qt-x11 under
windows. So you want to use a piece of software which explicitely is not
supposed to run under windows - as there is a commercial version available
for windows. While I can understand the desire to have GPL version of Qt
for windows (which will become reality with qt4), I can't avoid to think
that you chose a deliberately rough path to follow. So there you are. If
you want things easy, pay for a msvc compiler + qt windows version. Then
things will be pretty straightforward. As others (including me) have stated
before: windows is a commercial product. You have to pay to use it, and you
have to pay to develop for it. That's the way MS wants it. The alternatives
are there - but you can't have your cake and eat it.

--
Regards,

Diez B. Roggisch
Jul 18 '05 #154

P: n/a
Martin v. Lwis wrote:
Ilias Lazaridis wrote:
Should I take answers serious?
If not, why are you asking questions in the first place?


simply read the next question, which limits the scope of the first one.
Answer from people which do not respect coherence of writings?


Coherence of writings?


An example:

they above 2 questions are coherent, thus answering isolated [as you've
done] makes not much sense.

"
Should I take answers serious?
Answer from people which do not respect coherence of writings? "

[answering here makes sense]
Should a professional developer take python serious?


Yes.
I mean, if the team does not manage at least the foundation of a
multi-target automated-build-process?


If the team *would* not manage at least the foundation of a
multi-target automated-build-process, a professional developer
*should* not take python serious.


Very nice.

At this point, we agree very much.
However, since the team *does* manage at least the foundation of
a multi-target automated-build-process, a professional developer
*might* take python serious.
here our disagreement:

=> {"managing the foundation of a multi-target automated-build-process"}

What are the requirements for fulfilling this?
[a false premise can imply anything]
again you ignore coherent writings.

-

You have omitted the following part of my writings:

"[targets need not to be supported directly by the python team. They
could be added/managed/maintained by community members]"

in which I essentially define a few requirements for "managing the
foundation of a multi-target automated-build-process".

-

The python team should provide the fundamental infrastructure for the
community, thus it can add/manage/maintain build targets.

Additionally:
* The python-team should detect any efforts made for different
build-targets
* The python-team should attract/engourage the authors to include
them in the main build-system [incubation section].

The python-community and the PSF supports the python-team to take the
above actions.
Regards,
Martin


..

--
http://lazaridis.com
Jul 18 '05 #155

P: n/a
[snip, Ilias would not understand it]
P.S. if Ilias volunteers, or offers to pay someone to do this, instead of just complaining, will hell freeze over?)


Nick,

There is about as much chance of hell freezing over as there is of
England beating Australia in the cricket this summer. [I'am a
half-caste, English father, Welsh mother. Makes it worse when you are
watching rugby :)]

To get back to Ilias, people on c.l.py have already pointed out that he
has been banned from other mailing lists, responds to 99% of assistance
with "not relevant", "off topic", or some similar garbage, and
obviously has no intention of actually delivering anything to anybody.
See c.l.clipper.visual-objects amognst other ngs for their opinion on
this megastar.

Me, I use Python to write simple programs to suit my own needs. I have
never in the last three/four years needed to ask a question because the
documentation provided is perfectly adequate for me, failing which
Google this ng for an answer.

Ilias,

If you can't stand the heat, get out of the server room.

Kindest regards.

Mark Lawrence.

Jul 18 '05 #156

P: n/a
Ilias Lazaridis wrote:

they above 2 questions are coherent, thus answering isolated [as you've
done] makes not much sense.

"
>> Should I take answers serious?
>> Answer from people which do not respect coherence of writings?

"


Except that the quote here above is NOT what was in your original
posting. Here is the *real* quote (also note that Python uses """
instead of " for delimiting a multi-line string:

"""
Should I take answers serious?

Answer from people which do not respect coherence of writings?
"""

If you insert a blank line between two sentences most people in this
newsgroup (and in the western world in general) will interprete that as
the start of a new paragraph, as an indication that what follows is
something different than what precedes the blank line.
If you want to obtain "coherence of writing" between two sentences, then
maybe you shouldn't type them as different paragraphs.

If you would have written:

"""
Should I take answers serious? Answer from people which do not respect
coherence of writings?
"""

it would have been much more coherent.

Regards,
Jan

Jul 18 '05 #157

P: n/a
Jan Dries wrote:
Ilias Lazaridis wrote: [...] - (things which justify inability of coherence-detection)
If you would have written:

"""
Should I take answers serious? Answer from people which do not respect
coherence of writings?
"""

it would have been much more coherent.
I understand.

Let's see:

-

Should I take answers serious?

..

..

..

..

Answer from people which do not respect coherence of writings?

-
-
-

I still detect the coherence.

As most people in this group will detect the coherence.

[Except if you want to ignore it, thus you can get at least _one_
'points' ins this discussion]
Regards,
Jan


..

--
http://lazaridis.com
Jul 18 '05 #158

P: n/a
Ilias Lazaridis wrote:
I understand.


no.

</F>

Jul 18 '05 #159

P: n/a
Ilias Lazaridis wrote:
Should I take answers serious?

.

.

.

.

Answer from people which do not respect coherence of writings?

-
-
-

I still detect the coherence.

As most people in this group will detect the coherence.


I don't. The second fragment is not even correct English
(it does not have a verb in the main phrase, and Answer
is lacking an article).
So I have to guess what you could have meant. If you want
to be understood, you might have phrased the question like
this:

"Should I take answers from people which do not respect coherence
of writings serious?"

Or, if this splits the adjective too much from the verb, you
could also write

"Should I take answers serious if they come from people which
do not respect coherence of writings?"

This *still* would not have meant that I had understood the
question, since I still don't know what coherence of
writings is (as you failed to give a definition when I
last asked), but atleast I would have realized that I
don't understand the question, and refrained from answering
it. Perhaps the question was meant rhetoric.

Regards,
Martin
Jul 18 '05 #160

P: n/a
On 2005-02-20, Ilias Lazaridis <il***@lazaridis.com> wrote:
If you would have written:

"""
Should I take answers serious? Answer from people which do not respect
coherence of writings?
"""

it would have been much more coherent.
I understand.


I doubt it.
I still detect the coherence.

As most people in this group will detect the coherence.


You, sir, are a loon.

I've detected little coherence in _any_ of your postings.

--
Grant Edwards grante Yow! I want to TAKE IT
at HOME and DRESS IT UP in
visi.com HOT PANTS!!
Jul 18 '05 #161

P: n/a
Pat
Nick Coghlan wrote:
Pat wrote:
On Windows, most users are used to installing precompiled binary
packages, rather than compiling from source. When you do have to
compile from source, it often requires you to fiddle with nitty gritty details about which you'd rather remain ignorant. The less fiddling required, the happier the user will be, and the easier it will be for that product to get adopted on that platform. No psychic abilities are required. No Python abilities are required, either, for that matter. ;-)
And the fact that building *any* Windows native program without

commercial software is a PITA is the py-dev crew's fault, how?
I don't recall saying that it was their fault, but if I gave that
impression I apologize. I'm mainly reacting to those individuals who
keep claiming that things couldn't be any simpler and that there is no
problem. Based on the quality of the rest of your reply, you clearly
on not one of those individuals. In fact, you have given some great
information here. So thank you. It is greatly appreciated.
The python.org releases provide pre-built binaries for Windows, support for compiling Windows extensions with various compilers (including MinGW), and autoconf/automake support for POSIX-ish platforms (including Cygwin).
True, and I've always been glad that Tim Peters went through all the
trouble of creating and supporting the Windows binaries because I was
on the Windows platform when I first got introduced to Python. Thank
you, Tim!
For native Windows compilation of the interpreter, they support MSVC6 and MSVC7.1.
If you're a serious commercial Windows shop, you will have one of the Microsoft compiler suites installed *somewhere*. At that point, building your own version of Python is trivial.
True, but see my reply to your subsequent points.
Which leaves the hobbyists, and those companies which, for whatever reason, choose not to use Visual Studio to build C/C++ code on Windows.
Exactly. And how big is that group, really? It might be quite large.
If it meets your needs, the easiest solution is to build a non-native version using Cygwin (./configure, make, make altinstall). That's what I currently do, as the easiest free way to hack Python on a Windows box.
Yeah, but Cygwin is a bit scary for Windows folks who aren't familiar
with Linux or Unix.
Which means our target group is now only those who want to build a Windows Python binary, and don't want to use Visual Studio, and don't want to use Cygwin (hmm, the group under discussion must be getting rather small by

now).

Actually, I think this group is potentially huge in comparison to the
current users of Python. It's just that they aren't currently
represented in the Python community. Look at the PythonCard project.
I was involved in the early stages of its formation (that was when I
wrote PyCrust, which was incorporated into PythonCard). A great deal
of the interest in PythonCard was from hobbyists, VBers, old HyperCard
developers, etc. These folks were not your typical Python programmers.
They just wanted a simple tool that they could use to create simple
applications.

Now what if PythonCard started using some C source code as part of
their project? They would either have to provide binaries, or they
would have to make it easy for their developer community, many of whom
are on Windows, to be able to compile C extensions for Python. If they
couldn't make it easy, they would risk alienating many of their
supporters.

So my only point is that by making it easier to use C extensions, we
have an opportunity to make Python more attractive to a broader
audience that includes hobbyists and folks that do not want to pay for
commercial C compilers. And I think there may very well be more C code
in typical projects with all the cool tools getting used, like Pyrex
and such.

[snip]

The rest of your message provided great information. Thank you very
much.

--
Patrick K. O'Brien
Orbtech http://www.orbtech.com
Schevo http://www.schevo.org
Pypersyst http://www.pypersyst.org

Jul 18 '05 #162

P: n/a
[Snip]

Martin,

I believe that you are wasting your time. Looking at your email
address, this may well be relevant.

http://groups-beta.google.com/group/...63a4fb8a624349

Regards.

Mark Lawrence.

Jul 18 '05 #163

P: n/a
Martin v. Lwis wrote:
Ilias Lazaridis wrote:
Should I take answers serious? [...] Answer from people which do not respect coherence of writings? [...] I still detect the coherence.

As most people in this group will detect the coherence.


I don't. The second fragment is not even correct English

[...] - (limits of AI)

..

--
http://lazaridis.com
Jul 18 '05 #164

P: n/a
Summarized Suggestions for the Python Team, PSF, Community):

-
-
-

An automated-build-process-system should allow community-members to add
their targets (e.g. MinGW) into an special "incubation section", which
does not in any way affect the "main section" (which contains the
official production targets, e.g. MSVC).

If an "incubation section" target proves over time as stable and
supported (by community contributions), it is moved to the
"official-auto-build".

-
The python-team should
* detect any efforts made within the community to support different
build-targets
* attract/engourage the authors/teams to include the patches/sources
into the main build-system
* attract/engourage the authors/teams to have open projects with an
collaboration infrastructure.

-

The python-community and the PSF should support the python-team to
fulfill the above tasks, thus the python-teams effort is limited to
provide the infrastructure (incubation-build-targets).

-
-
-

Practical example:

Engourage the current pyMinGW project to become a open collaborative
project:

http://jove.prohosting.com/iwave/ipython/pyMinGW.html

* as a first step, setup a pyMinGW mailinglist
* intrested people can come together an communicate
* as a second step, setup an SVN
* intrested projects could get your patch via SVN
* as a third step, find intrested contributors
* which would help testing
* which would help you with coding

The python-team setups a build-target, which the collaborative pyMinGW
project tries to make valid.

-
-
-

Now it's really time to close this thread.

..

--
http://lazaridis.com
Jul 18 '05 #165

P: n/a
"BrainDead" <br*********@aol.com> writes:
I believe that you are wasting your time. Looking at your email
address, this may well be relevant.

[ 4-line URL snipped ]

Thanks for the historical reference. Please consider a visit to
tinyurl.com before posting a monster like that... :^)

Nick

--
# sigmask || 0.2 || 20030107 || public domain || feed this to a python
print reduce(lambda x,y:x+chr(ord(y)-1),' Ojdl!Wbshjti!=obwAcboefstobudi/psh?')
Jul 18 '05 #166

P: n/a
Martin v. Lwis:
So I have to guess what you could have meant. If you want
to be understood, you might have phrased the question like
this:

"Should I take answers from people which do not respect coherence
of writings serious?"
The main grammatical problem with the question is the use of an adjective
("serious") rather than an adverb ("seriously") to modify the verb "take".

Should I take answers seriously?

I'd also add in an article to point to the particular answers to be
disregarded.

Should I take these answers seriously?

Next problem is the disagreement in number between "answers" and "answer"
which breaks the connection just as separating the questions does.

Answers from people which do not respect coherence of writings?

There are more problems to fix but this is a start. Grammatical errors
are often perceived as rudeness.
Perhaps the question was meant rhetoric.


Aghhh! He's got you doing it too.

Neil -- Aussie ear for the foreign guy
Jul 18 '05 #167

P: n/a
Ilias Lazaridis <il***@lazaridis.com> writes:
Now it's really time to close this thread.


I suspect this will fall of deaf ears, but I have to mention that you
do not get to "close threads" on Usenet. You can excuse yourself from
this one and stop replying to comments, but you don't get to
unilaterally declare a discussion over.

Just not how it works, though in this case an exception might be
welcomed...

Nick

--
# sigmask || 0.2 || 20030107 || public domain || feed this to a python
print reduce(lambda x,y:x+chr(ord(y)-1),' Ojdl!Wbshjti!=obwAcboefstobudi/psh?')
Jul 18 '05 #168

P: n/a

Nick Vargish wrote:
"BrainDead" <br*********@aol.com> writes:
I believe that you are wasting your time. Looking at your email
address, this may well be relevant. [ 4-line URL snipped ]

Thanks for the historical reference. Please consider a visit to
tinyurl.com before posting a monster like that... :^)

Nick

--
# sigmask || 0.2 || 20030107 || public domain || feed this

to a python print reduce(lambda x,y:x+chr(ord(y)-1),'

Ojdl!Wbshjti!=obwAcboefstobudi/psh?')

Nick,

Sorry about that, forgot to engage brain before doing cut and paste.
At least I can learn, unlike some well known people.:)

Regards.

Mark Lawrence.

Jul 18 '05 #169

P: n/a
Ilias Lazaridis wrote:
Bruno Desthuilliers wrote:
[...]

closing thread
http://groups-beta.google.com/group/...ae9cdbe16676d1

Nope. You are not entitled to close thread. This is irrelevant.
--
bruno desthuilliers
python -c "print '@'.join(['.'.join([w[::-1] for w in p.split('.')]) for
p in 'o****@xiludom.gro'.split('@')])"
Jul 18 '05 #170

P: n/a
Ilias Lazaridis wrote:

Should a professional developer take python serious?


A *professionnal developper*, yes. But this is irrelevant to you.

--
bruno desthuilliers
python -c "print '@'.join(['.'.join([w[::-1] for w in p.split('.')]) for
p in 'o****@xiludom.gro'.split('@')])"
Jul 18 '05 #171

P: n/a
Nick Vargish schreef:
Please consider a visit to
tinyurl.com before posting a monster like that... :^)


As long as he also posts the full URL...

--
JanC

"Be strict when sending and tolerant when receiving."
RFC 1958 - Architectural Principles of the Internet - section 3.9
Jul 18 '05 #172

P: n/a
On 2005-02-20, Nick Vargish <na*******@bandersnatch.org> wrote:
"BrainDead" <br*********@aol.com> writes:
I believe that you are wasting your time. Looking at your email
address, this may well be relevant.

[ 4-line URL snipped ]

Thanks for the historical reference. Please consider a visit to
tinyurl.com before posting a monster like that... :^)


I've never understood the problem with long URLs. Many
newsreaders let you click on them. If not, you just cut/paste
it into a browser (with a shellscript a couple lines long, you
can start firefox with the URL on the X clipboard with a single
command).

--
Grant Edwards grante Yow! I'm a GENIUS! I
at want to dispute sentence
visi.com structure with SUSAN
SONTAG!!
Jul 18 '05 #173

P: n/a
Nick Vargish wrote:
Ilias Lazaridis <il***@lazaridis.com> writes:
Now it's really time to close this thread.
I suspect this will fall of deaf ears, but I have to mention that you
do not get to "close threads" on Usenet.


this is obvious.
You can excuse yourself from this one and stop replying to comments,
but you don't get to unilaterally declare a discussion over.

[...]

The discussion is over.

At least the in-topic one.

Everything else is babbling, hairsplitting, playing an AI which does not
understand writings and all this unproductive garbage.

The Essence is this one, as stated before:

"
Summarized Suggestions for the Python Team, PSF, Community):

-
-
-

An automated-build-process-system should allow community-members to add
their targets (e.g. MinGW) into an special "incubation section", which
does not in any way affect the "main section" (which contains the
official production targets, e.g. MSVC).

If an "incubation section" target proves over time as stable and
supported (by community contributions), it is moved to the
"official-auto-build".

-
The python-team should
* detect any efforts made within the community to support different
build-targets
* attract/engourage the authors/teams to include the patches/sources
into the main build-system
* attract/engourage the authors/teams to have open projects with an
collaboration infrastructure.

-

The python-community and the PSF should support the python-team to
fulfill the above tasks, thus the python-teams effort is limited to
provide the infrastructure (incubation-build-targets).

-
-
-

Practical example:

Engourage the current pyMinGW project to become a open collaborative
project:

http://jove.prohosting.com/iwave/ipython/pyMinGW.html

* as a first step, setup a pyMinGW mailinglist
* intrested people can come together an communicate
* as a second step, setup an SVN
* intrested projects could get your patch via SVN
* as a third step, find intrested contributors
* which would help testing
* which would help you with coding

The python-team setups a build-target, which the collaborative pyMinGW
project tries to make valid.

-
-
-

Now it's really time to close this thread.

..
"

..

--
http://lazaridis.com
Jul 18 '05 #174

P: n/a
> I've never understood the problem with long URLs. Many
newsreaders let you click on them. If not, you just cut/paste
it into a browser (with a shellscript a couple lines long, you
can start firefox with the URL on the X clipboard with a single
command).


Some break the urls - so copy and pasting yields only start or end of the
urls, depending on the browser/edit control your pasting into.

--
Regards,

Diez B. Roggisch
Jul 18 '05 #175

P: n/a
"Ilias Lazaridis" <il***@lazaridis.com> wrote in message news:cv**********@usenet.otenet.gr...
Nick Vargish wrote:
You can excuse yourself from this one and stop replying to comments,
but you don't get to unilaterally declare a discussion over.

[...]

The discussion is over.

At least the in-topic one.

Everything else is babbling, hairsplitting, playing an AI which does not
understand writings and all this unproductive garbage.

The Essence is this one, as stated before:

[huge copy paste of previous post]

The Essence is irrelevant.
-
-
-
All your thread are belong to us.
-
-
-

George


Jul 18 '05 #176

P: n/a
Grant Edwards <gr****@visi.com> writes:
I've never understood the problem with long URLs. Many
newsreaders let you click on them. If not, you just cut/paste
it into a browser (with a shellscript a couple lines long, you
can start firefox with the URL on the X clipboard with a single
command).


I use Gnus through a screen session, so when I select and copy a long
URL I get backslash characters in the copied text (as amusing as it
is, w3 is not a satisfying browsing experience for me :^). It's not
hard to manually pick out the backslashes, but it's time consuming and
kind of tedious. I use an open-source terminal app (iTerm under OS X),
so I guess I could hack the "open in browser" function to remove the
backslashes... Hmm...

Side projects aside, URLs less than 79 characters long are just easier
to handle in many ways.

Nick

--
# sigmask || 0.2 || 20030107 || public domain || feed this to a python
print reduce(lambda x,y:x+chr(ord(y)-1),' Ojdl!Wbshjti!=obwAcboefstobudi/psh?')
Jul 18 '05 #177

P: n/a
George Sakkis wrote:
"Ilias Lazaridis" <il***@lazaridis.com> wrote in message news:cv**********@usenet.otenet.gr...
Nick Vargish wrote:
You can excuse yourself from this one and stop replying to comments,
but you don't get to unilaterally declare a discussion over.[...]

The discussion is over.

At least the in-topic one.

Everything else is babbling, hairsplitting, playing an AI which does not
understand writings and all this unproductive garbage.

The Essence is this one, as stated before:

[huge copy paste of previous post]


The Essence is irrelevant.


It seems that this is true.
-
-
-
All your thread are belong to us.
This is true ["us" = a few off-topic-freaks]
-
-
-

George


[EVALUATION] - E02 - Support for MinGW Open Source Compiler
Essence:
http://groups-beta.google.com/group/...a2a0ba55d4c102

..

--
http://lazaridis.com
Jul 18 '05 #178

P: n/a
George Sakkis wrote:
"Ilias Lazaridis" <il***@lazaridis.com> wrote in message news:cv**********@usenet.otenet.gr...

Nick Vargish wrote:
You can excuse yourself from this one and stop replying to comments,
but you don't get to unilaterally declare a discussion over.


[...]

The discussion is over.

At least the in-topic one.

Everything else is babbling, hairsplitting, playing an AI which does not
understand writings and all this unproductive garbage.

The Essence is this one, as stated before:

[huge copy paste of previous post]


The Essence is irrelevant.
-
-
-
All your thread are belong to us.
-
-
-


For great justice!

;o)
Jul 18 '05 #179

P: n/a
Fredrik Lundh schrieb:
+00: googled for the mingw home page
+00: found the mingw download page
+02: finally figured out what to download
+03: noticed that my usual SF site only offered 1K/s; aborted download
+07: finished downloading the mingw kit from another SF site
+17: finished installing
+18: added \mingw\bin to the path
+18: typed "python setup.py install --compiler=mingw32"
+18: got a linker error; googled for help
+19: copied python24.dll to \mingw\lib
+20: finished building the sample library (cElementTree); all tests pass


Impressive. How did you record the minutes? ;) I'd like to know wether
this is a single observation or true for most if not all your MinGW
builds?

I used Borland's C++ Compiler (free and commercial) and had frequently
to tweak .def files and the source to make it work. I also had to
transform the python dll with COFF2OMF because the library interfaces
of python.dll and the Borland binaries were different.

If your MinGW experience described above is typical then I'll get a
stop watch and give it a try ;)

--
-------------------------------------------------------------------
Peter Maas, M+R Infosysteme, D-52070 Aachen, Tel +49-241-93878-0
E-mail 'cGV0ZXIubWFhc0BtcGx1c3IuZGU=\n'.decode('base64')
-------------------------------------------------------------------
Jul 18 '05 #180

P: n/a
Markus Wankus wrote:
George Sakkis wrote:
"Ilias Lazaridis" <il***@lazaridis.com> wrote in message [...]
The Essence is this one, as stated before:

[huge copy paste of previous post]


The Essence is irrelevant.
-
-
-
All your thread are belong to us.
-
-
-


For great justice!

;o)


[EVALUATION] - E02 - Support for MinGW Open Source Compiler
Essence:
http://groups-beta.google.com/group/...a2a0ba55d4c102

..

--
http://lazaridis.com
Jul 18 '05 #181

P: n/a
On 2005-02-23, Ilias Lazaridis <il***@lazaridis.com> wrote:
The Essence is this one, as stated before:

[huge copy paste of previous post]

The Essence is irrelevant.
-
All your thread are belong to us.
-


For great justice!

;o)


[EVALUATION] - E02 - Support for MinGW Open Source Compiler
Essence:
http://groups-beta.google.com/group/...a2a0ba55d4c102


Um, you realize that nobody in this thread takes you the least
bit seriously and people are just poking you with a stick to
watch you jump?

--
Grant Edwards grante Yow! An INK-LING? Sure --
at TAKE one!! Did you BUY any
visi.com COMMUNIST UNIFORMS??
Jul 18 '05 #182

P: n/a
Grant Edwards wrote:
[...]
Um, you realize that nobody in this thread takes you the least
bit seriously and people are just poking you with a stick to
watch you jump?


jump:

[EVALUATION] - E02 - Support for MinGW Open Source Compiler
Essence:
http://groups-beta.google.com/group/...a2a0ba55d4c102

..

--
http://lazaridis.com
Jul 18 '05 #183

P: n/a
"Ilias Lazaridis" <il***@lazaridis.com> wrote in message news:cv**********@usenet.otenet.gr...
Grant Edwards wrote:
[...]
Um, you realize that nobody in this thread takes you the least
bit seriously and people are just poking you with a stick to
watch you jump?


jump:

[EVALUATION] - E02 - Support for MinGW Open Source Compiler
Essence:
http://groups-beta.google.com/group/...a2a0ba55d4c102

Lol, this guy is hopeless :-)

George
Jul 18 '05 #184

P: n/a
In message <38*************@individual.net>, George Sakkis
<gs*****@rutgers.edu> writes
"Ilias Lazaridis" <il***@lazaridis.com> wrote in message
news:cv**********@usenet.otenet.gr...
Grant Edwards wrote:
[...]
> Um, you realize that nobody in this thread takes you the least
> bit seriously and people are just poking you with a stick to
> watch you jump?


jump:

[EVALUATION] - E02 - Support for MinGW Open Source Compiler
Essence:
http://groups-beta.google.com/group/...a2a0ba55d4c102

Lol, this guy is hopeless :-)


Who's Guido?
--
Stephen Kellett
Object Media Limited http://www.objmedia.demon.co.uk
RSI Information: http://www.objmedia.demon.co.uk/rsi.html
Jul 18 '05 #185

P: n/a
Stephen Kellett wrote:
[...]
Who's Guido?


Guido is the one, who should care by time about the status of the
python-community.

-

I've send an addition CC of this message to the python-foundation, which
will hopefully take some steps to improve the build-system.

[EVALUATION] - E02 - Support for MinGW Open Source Compiler
Essence:
http://groups-beta.google.com/group/...a2a0ba55d4c102

-

Thank's for every bit of contribution, which has made this thread an
worthfull insight into the python-community.

..

--
http://lazaridis.com
Jul 18 '05 #186

P: n/a
Ilias Lazaridis <il***@lazaridis.com> writes:
Guido is the one, who should care by time about the status of the
python-community.
That one crashed my parser.
Thank's for every bit of contribution, which has made this thread an
worthfull insight into the python-community.


To really get a sense of the Python "community" (at least the Usenet
branch), you should see how it responds to typical questions and
requests for help. The response you received is not really typical,
because your attitude has been atypical.

Just sayin',

Nick

--
# sigmask || 0.2 || 20030107 || public domain || feed this to a python
print reduce(lambda x,y:x+chr(ord(y)-1),' Ojdl!Wbshjti!=obwAcboefstobudi/psh?')
Jul 18 '05 #187

P: n/a
In message <42**************@lazaridis.com>, Ilias Lazaridis
<il***@lazaridis.com> writes
Stephen Kellett wrote:
[...]
Who's Guido?


Guido is the one, who should care by time about the status of the
python-community.


Who is care by time?
--
Stephen Kellett
Object Media Limited http://www.objmedia.demon.co.uk
RSI Information: http://www.objmedia.demon.co.uk/rsi.html
Jul 18 '05 #188

P: n/a
Nick Vargish wrote:
Ilias Lazaridis <il***@lazaridis.com> writes:

Guido is the one, who should care by time about the status of the
python-community.

That one crashed my parser.


Sounds like a new Ministry song - "Guido Crashed my Parser". Could be
the sequel to "Jesus Built My Hot Rod".
Jul 18 '05 #189

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