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Developing Commercial Applications in Python

P: n/a
Hello All,
I am trying to convince my client to use Python in his new product. He
is worried about the license issues. Can somebody there to point me any
good commercial applications developed using python ?. The licence
clearly says Python can be used for commercial applications. Is there
any other implications like that of GPL to make the source open ?
Thanks for any help.
eeykay

Jul 18 '05 #1
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23 Replies


P: n/a
On Mon, 2005-01-03 at 19:00, ee****@gmail.com wrote:
Hello All,
I am trying to convince my client to use Python in his new product. He
is worried about the license issues. Can somebody there to point me any
good commercial applications developed using python ?. The licence
clearly says Python can be used for commercial applications. Is there
any other implications like that of GPL to make the source open ?


My understanding is that you're dead safe with Python its self, as AFAIK
you can even bundle (possibly modified) the Python sourcecode into your
application. You'd simply need to keep an eye on the licenses of any
extensions you used, like ReportLab, PIL, mx, database interfaces,
twisted, etc. Many are licensed under the same license as Python or an
MIT-like license, but of course some Python extensions are not and you
would need to consider that.

--
Craig Ringer

Jul 18 '05 #2

P: n/a
Shaw-PTI (www.pti-us.com) uses Python in their software. See:
http://www.pti-us.com/pti/news/index.cfm and search "2004 PSS/E User Group
Meeting"

<ee****@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:11**********************@c13g2000cwb.googlegr oups.com...
Hello All,
I am trying to convince my client to use Python in his new product. He
is worried about the license issues. Can somebody there to point me any
good commercial applications developed using python ?. The licence
clearly says Python can be used for commercial applications. Is there
any other implications like that of GPL to make the source open ?
Thanks for any help.
eeykay

Jul 18 '05 #3

P: n/a
> <ee****@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:11**********************@c13g2000cwb.googlegr oups.com...
Hello All,
I am trying to convince my client to use Python in his new product. He
is worried about the license issues. Can somebody there to point me any
good commercial applications developed using python ?. The licence
clearly says Python can be used for commercial applications. Is there
any other implications like that of GPL to make the source open ?
Thanks for any help.
eeykay
"It's me" <it***@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:mB****************@newssvr21.news.prodigy.com ... Shaw-PTI (www.pti-us.com) uses Python in their software. See:
http://www.pti-us.com/pti/news/index.cfm and search "2004 PSS/E User Group
Meeting"


Begging your pardon, but a better resource would be the brochure available
(http://www.pti-us.com/PTI/company/brochures/PSSE.pdf). It appears that the
program was probably (originally) written in C/C++ (using MFC for the GUI),
and now employs Python for adding modules and scripting support. Very
interesting stuff :)
Jul 18 '05 #4

P: n/a

"Richards Noah (IFR LIT MET)" <No***********@infineon.com> wrote in message
news:cr**********@athen03.muc.infineon.com...

Begging your pardon, but a better resource would be the brochure available
(http://www.pti-us.com/PTI/company/brochures/PSSE.pdf). It appears that the program was probably (originally) written in C/C++ (using MFC for the GUI), and now employs Python for adding modules and scripting support. Very
interesting stuff :)


It was actually developed in Fortran some 35 years ago. Then migrated to
F77. Then added a C/C++ layer to sit ontop. Then converted to API based.
Then added a Python layer on top.

The only thing unfortunate is that they went with MFC on the newest version.
Yuck!
Jul 18 '05 #5

P: n/a
In article <11**********************@c13g2000cwb.googlegroups .com>,
<ee****@gmail.com> wrote:

I am trying to convince my client to use Python in his new product. He
is worried about the license issues. Can somebody there to point me any
good commercial applications developed using python ?. The licence
clearly says Python can be used for commercial applications. Is there
any other implications like that of GPL to make the source open ?


Are you looking to embed Python as a scripting language or to write the
software in Python?
--
Aahz (aa**@pythoncraft.com) <*> http://www.pythoncraft.com/

"19. A language that doesn't affect the way you think about programming,
is not worth knowing." --Alan Perlis
Jul 18 '05 #6

P: n/a

"It's me" <it***@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:oz****************@newssvr21.news.prodigy.com ...

"Richards Noah (IFR LIT MET)" <No***********@infineon.com> wrote in message news:cr**********@athen03.muc.infineon.com...

Begging your pardon, but a better resource would be the brochure available (http://www.pti-us.com/PTI/company/brochures/PSSE.pdf). It appears that the
program was probably (originally) written in C/C++ (using MFC for the

GUI),
and now employs Python for adding modules and scripting support. Very
interesting stuff :)


It was actually developed in Fortran some 35 years ago. Then migrated to
F77. Then added a C/C++ layer to sit ontop. Then converted to API

based. Then added a Python layer on top.

The only thing unfortunate is that they went with MFC on the newest version. Yuck!


Hahaha, sounds like a party to me. And they didn't even throw in a layer of
Lisp for good effort? Too bad, if you ask me :)
Jul 18 '05 #7

P: n/a

<ee****@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:11**********************@c13g2000cwb.googlegr oups.com...
I am trying to convince my client to use Python in his new product. He
is worried about the license issues. Can somebody there to point me any
good commercial applications developed using python ?. The licence
clearly says Python can be used for commercial applications.


We are in a weird catch-22 type situation here. Because the license is so
open, companies that use Python just use it. No payment, no curtesy
registration, no verifiable trace unless they care to disclose (and most
don't).

The license could be paraphrased as "Don't sue us or do anything that would
cause anyone else to sue us and we won't sue you." There is a posted
request for thank you donations but not enough commercial users do so to
even hire one full time programmer, let alone a lawyer (above the bare
minimum required for PSF to legally function). The PSF is about as far
from the RIAA and MPAA as possible.

There are Python Success Stories at the Python site and elsewhere (try
Google on the newsgroup. You could also agree to be responsible for any
legal action initiated by the PSF not due to obvious malfeance, like trying
to register a copyright on the Python source. Or you could suggest that
they purchase a license with a donation to the PSF.

Terry J. Reedy

Jul 18 '05 #8

P: n/a
Well, now that they are API based, they can easily add any script language
they so wish through SWIG (www.swig.org).

Maybe not LISP. SNOBOL would be the right thing to do. (*NOT*)
"Richards Noah (IFR LIT MET)" <No***********@infineon.com> wrote in message
news:cr**********@athen03.muc.infineon.com...

It was actually developed in Fortran some 35 years ago. Then migrated to F77. Then added a C/C++ layer to sit ontop. Then converted to API based.
Then added a Python layer on top.

The only thing unfortunate is that they went with MFC on the newest

version.
Yuck!


Hahaha, sounds like a party to me. And they didn't even throw in a layer

of Lisp for good effort? Too bad, if you ask me :)

Jul 18 '05 #9

P: n/a
ee****@gmail.com wrote:
Hello All,
I am trying to convince my client to use Python in his new product. He
is worried about the license issues. Can somebody there to point me any
good commercial applications developed using python ?. The licence
clearly says Python can be used for commercial applications. Is there
any other implications like that of GPL to make the source open ?
Thanks for any help.
eeykay


At CSB-System AG, we use Python extensively as embedded scripting
language throughout the ERP system we develop (fields of application:
system automation, GUI scripting, programmable user exits, reporting,
data access/replication, autotests, and apart from that, everywhere we
need something done fast ;-).

I'm sure that its liberal license was among the main drivers to use it
in the first place!

--
Vincent Wehren
Jul 18 '05 #10

P: n/a
It's me wrote:
Shaw-PTI (www.pti-us.com) uses Python in their software.


.... but the "Python Powered" logo is conspicuous by its
absence from their site. Too bad that some commercial
exploiters of Python don't advertise that fact more often.
Every little bit helps!

Steve
Jul 18 '05 #11

P: n/a
Stephen Waterbury <st*****************@nasa.gov> wrote:
Shaw-PTI (www.pti-us.com) uses Python in their software.


... but the "Python Powered" logo is conspicuous by its
absence from their site. Too bad that some commercial
exploiters of Python don't advertise that fact more often.


Companies use all sorts of technologies to produce their products. I
have no idea who Shaw-PTI is or what they do, but I'm sure they also
use other languages, and web servers, and operating systems, and
telephones and office furniture and pencil sharpeners. They're all
just tools. You don't expect a company to waste space on their web
site advertising which brand of pencil sharpener they use, so why
would you expect they would do so for a programming language?

Sometimes you see web sites with "Powered by IBM" or "Powered by Sun"
or whatever. I'm sure behind every one of those is a deal cut with
the supplier to promote their name in return for some favorable terms
on a contract.
Jul 18 '05 #12

P: n/a
ee****@gmail.com wrote:
Hello All,
I am trying to convince my client to use Python in his new product. He
is worried about the license issues. Can somebody there to point me any
good commercial applications developed using python ?. The licence
clearly says Python can be used for commercial applications. Is there
any other implications like that of GPL to make the source open ?
Thanks for any help.
eeykay

No. The Python license explicitly allows you to distribute derived works
(i.e. Python applications including the standard compiler, or modified
versions of the compiler) without obliging you to disclose the source
code in the way that the GPL does.

The only obligation the license places on you are

a) You must retain the original copyright notices and
b) If you *do* distribute modified versions, you must include a brief
description of your modifications.

I believe the Python License Version 2, as found at

http://www.python.org/moin/PythonSof...nLicenseV2Easy

is about as simple as a license can get, yet still the Foundation
receives inquiries from people whose lawyers are unconvinced there are
no hidden problems. Of course, IANAL, so the lawyers could be right, but
at least the INTENT is pretty obvious.

Also beware if you plan to use "The Python License" for your own
software, and read

http://www.python.org/moin/PythonSof...tionLicenseFaq

if you are thinking of doing so. Of course, there are many contributions
which were licensed to the Foundation for inclusion in the distribution.
The Foundation is currently in the process of regularizing the "license
stack" thus created, by negotiating with individual contributors to
ensure that a compatible license is initially granted to the PSF.

Nothing is currently believed to prohibit the Foundation from licensing
current releases on the terms that it does, but I should include a
disclaimer that this is *not* an official statement from the
Foundation, rather an explanation from one of its directors (an
all-too-fallible human being) about what's lately been happening in the
licensing space.

regards
Steve
--
Steve Holden http://www.holdenweb.com/
Python Web Programming http://pydish.holdenweb.com/
Holden Web LLC +1 703 861 4237 +1 800 494 3119
Jul 18 '05 #13

P: n/a
ee****@gmail.com wrote:
Hello All,
I am trying to convince my client to use Python in his new product. He
is worried about the license issues. Can somebody there to point me any
good commercial applications developed using python ?. The licence
clearly says Python can be used for commercial applications. Is there
any other implications like that of GPL to make the source open ?
Thanks for any help.
eeykay

Troika games use Python in their games. It seems you can even get the
source .py files for Vampires: Bloodlines :)
Jul 18 '05 #14

P: n/a
"It's me" <it***@yahoo.com> writes:
Well, now that they are API based, they can easily add any script language
they so wish through SWIG (www.swig.org).

Maybe not LISP. SNOBOL would be the right thing to do. (*NOT*)


SWIG generates wrappers for GUILE, which is Scheme, which looks enough
like LISP to fool most people. It's the GNU extensible embeddable
language.

<mike
--
Mike Meyer <mw*@mired.org> http://www.mired.org/home/mwm/
Independent WWW/Perforce/FreeBSD/Unix consultant, email for more information.
Jul 18 '05 #15

P: n/a
ee****@gmail.com writes:
Can somebody there to point me any good commercial applications
developed using python ?


Python is used in several games, including Temple of Elemental Evil
and the forthcoming Civilization 4. Humungous Games, which makes
software for children, is also using Python. Sorry if games would give
your boss the wrong impression...

Most commercial software houses don't advertise details of their
development platforms.

Nick

--
# sigmask || 0.2 || 20030107 || public domain || feed this to a python
print reduce(lambda x,y:x+chr(ord(y)-1),' Ojdl!Wbshjti!=obwAcboefstobudi/psh?')
Jul 18 '05 #16

P: n/a
Nick Vargish wrote:
ee****@gmail.com writes:
Can somebody there to point me any good commercial applications
developed using python ?


Python is used in several games ...


Also see Python Success Stories: http://pythonology.org/success

A notable example is Verity's search engine -- see
http://python.oreilly.com/news/PythonSS.pdf

Steve
Jul 18 '05 #17

P: n/a
Nick Vargish wrote:
ee****@gmail.com writes:
Can somebody there to point me any good commercial applications
developed using python ?


Python is used in several games, including Temple of Elemental Evil
and the forthcoming Civilization 4. Humungous Games, which makes
software for children, is also using Python. Sorry if games would give
your boss the wrong impression...


Also "Startrek Bridge Commander", and "Uru: Ages beyond Myst".
Jul 18 '05 #18

P: n/a
Can somebody there to point me any good commercial applications
developed using python ?


Yet another game but it's a huge one with a massive DB behind it.

http://www.eve-online.com

--
Steve Hughes
Jul 18 '05 #19

P: n/a
Stephen Waterbury wrote:
A notable example is Verity's search engine -- see
http://python.oreilly.com/news/PythonSS.pdf


Not to mention the kind words of the current reigning king of the search engine
world. . .

Cheers,
Nick.

--
Nick Coghlan | nc******@email.com | Brisbane, Australia
---------------------------------------------------------------
http://boredomandlaziness.skystorm.net
Jul 18 '05 #20

P: n/a
In article <ma**************************************@python.o rg>,
Stephen Waterbury <go***@comcast.net> wrote:
ee****@gmail.com writes:

Can somebody there to point me any good commercial applications
developed using python ?


Also see Python Success Stories: http://pythonology.org/success

A notable example is Verity's search engine -- see
http://python.oreilly.com/news/PythonSS.pdf


Actually, your statement is slightly inaccurate. The Verity search
engine is more than fifteen years old in its core technology; it was
started as a LISP project at IIRC MIT. (At one point I was much amused
to look at the C source code and find car() and cdr() functions.) As of
my last information, Python isn't used at all in or with the Verity
search engine. What you're referring to is the Verity Ultraseek engine,
originally written and owned by Infoseek before getting transferred to
Verity through a series of dot-bomb transactions. The Ultraseek engine
doesn't use Python, but Python is used to control the engine, and I think
much of the spider is written in Python.
--
Aahz (aa**@pythoncraft.com) <*> http://www.pythoncraft.com/

"19. A language that doesn't affect the way you think about programming,
is not worth knowing." --Alan Perlis
Jul 18 '05 #21

P: n/a
Aahz wrote:
In article <ma**************************************@python.o rg>,
Stephen Waterbury <go***@comcast.net> wrote:
ee****@gmail.com writes:

Can somebody there to point me any good commercial applications
developed using python ?


Also see Python Success Stories: http://pythonology.org/success

A notable example is Verity's search engine -- see
http://python.oreilly.com/news/PythonSS.pdf


Actually, your statement is slightly inaccurate. The Verity search
engine is more than fifteen years old in its core technology; it was
started as a LISP project at IIRC MIT. (At one point I was much amused
to look at the C source code and find car() and cdr() functions.) As of
my last information, Python isn't used at all in or with the Verity
search engine. What you're referring to is the Verity Ultraseek engine,
originally written and owned by Infoseek before getting transferred to
Verity through a series of dot-bomb transactions. The Ultraseek engine
doesn't use Python, but Python is used to control the engine, and I think
much of the spider is written in Python.


Actually, Aahz didn't add anything useful that wasn't explained
better in the article itself, pointing to which was the purpose
of my post, but he is correct: Python was *not* used to write
the Verity search engine ... how the hell do these stupid rumors
get started anyhow?? ;). Just read the article, dammit! :)

Cheers,
Steve
Jul 18 '05 #22

P: n/a
In article <ma**************************************@python.o rg>,
Stephen Waterbury <go***@comcast.net> wrote:
Aahz wrote:
In article <ma**************************************@python.o rg>,
Stephen Waterbury <go***@comcast.net> wrote:

Also see Python Success Stories: http://pythonology.org/success

A notable example is Verity's search engine -- see
http://python.oreilly.com/news/PythonSS.pdf


Actually, your statement is slightly inaccurate. The Verity search
engine is more than fifteen years old in its core technology; it was
started as a LISP project at IIRC MIT. (At one point I was much amused
to look at the C source code and find car() and cdr() functions.) As of
my last information, Python isn't used at all in or with the Verity
search engine. What you're referring to is the Verity Ultraseek engine,
originally written and owned by Infoseek before getting transferred to
Verity through a series of dot-bomb transactions. The Ultraseek engine
doesn't use Python, but Python is used to control the engine, and I think
much of the spider is written in Python.


Actually, Aahz didn't add anything useful that wasn't explained better
in the article itself, pointing to which was the purpose of my post,
but he is correct: Python was *not* used to write the Verity search
engine ... how the hell do these stupid rumors get started anyhow?? ;).
Just read the article, dammit! :)


You're quite correct that I added little useful information, but seeing
as I used to work at Verity, I couldn't resist adding some hopefully
interesting and/or amusing trivia. Especially the LISP bit.
--
Aahz (aa**@pythoncraft.com) <*> http://www.pythoncraft.com/

"19. A language that doesn't affect the way you think about programming,
is not worth knowing." --Alan Perlis
Jul 18 '05 #23

P: n/a
Aahz wrote:
In article <ma**************************************@python.o rg>,
Stephen Waterbury <go***@comcast.net> wrote:
Aahz wrote:
In article <ma**************************************@python.o rg>,
Stephen Waterbury <go***@comcast.net> wrote:

Also see Python Success Stories: http://pythonology.org/success

A notable example is Verity's search engine -- see
http://python.oreilly.com/news/PythonSS.pdf

Actually, your statement is slightly inaccurate. The Verity search
engine is more than fifteen years old in its core technology; it was
started as a LISP project at IIRC MIT. (At one point I was much amused
to look at the C source code and find car() and cdr() functions.) As of
my last information, Python isn't used at all in or with the Verity
search engine. What you're referring to is the Verity Ultraseek engine,
originally written and owned by Infoseek before getting transferred to
Verity through a series of dot-bomb transactions. The Ultraseek engine
doesn't use Python, but Python is used to control the engine, and I think
much of the spider is written in Python.


Actually, Aahz didn't add anything useful that wasn't explained better
in the article itself, pointing to which was the purpose of my post,
but he is correct: Python was *not* used to write the Verity search
engine ... how the hell do these stupid rumors get started anyhow?? ;).
Just read the article, dammit! :)


You're quite correct that I added little useful information, but seeing
as I used to work at Verity, I couldn't resist adding some hopefully
interesting and/or amusing trivia. Especially the LISP bit.


Well GEEZ, you should've mentioned that you used to work there!
All the trivia *were* amusing ... sorry if I harshed! :)

Cheers,
Steve
Jul 18 '05 #24

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