Calling a C program from a Python Script

[Brad Tilley]

Is it possible to write a file open, then read program in C and then
call the C program from a Python script like this:

for root, files, dirs in os.walk(path)
for f in files:
try:
EXECUTE_C_PROGRAM

If possible, how much faster would this be over a pure Python solution?

Thank you,

Brad

[Grant Edwards]

On 2004-12-09, Brad Tilley <br********@gmail.com> wrote:

Is it possible to write a file open, then read program in C and then
call the C program from a Python script like this:
Huh? What do you mean "write a file open"? You want to read a
C source file and execute the C source? If you have access to
a C interpreter, I guess you could invoke the interpreter from
python using popen, and feed the C source to it. Alternatively
you could invoke a compiler and linker from C to generate an
executable and then execute the resulting file.
for root, files, dirs in os.walk(path)
for f in files:
try:
EXECUTE_C_PROGRAM
You're going to have to explain clearly what you mean by
"EXECUTE_C_PROGRAM". If you want to, you can certainly run a
binary executable that was generated from C source, (e.g. an
ELF file under Linux or whatever a .exe file is under Windows).
If possible, how much faster would this be over a pure Python
solution?

Solution to what?

--
Grant Edwards grante Yow! And furthermore,
at my bowling average is
visi.com unimpeachable!!!

[Istvan Albert]

Brad Tilley wrote:

If possible, how much faster would this be over a pure Python solution?

It is like the difference between Batman and Ever.

batman is faster than ever

[Brad Tilley]

Grant Edwards wrote:

Huh? What do you mean "write a file open"? You want to read a
C source file and execute the C source? If you have access to
a C interpreter, I guess you could invoke the interpreter from
python using popen, and feed the C source to it. Alternatively
you could invoke a compiler and linker from C to generate an
executable and then execute the resulting file.

for root, files, dirs in os.walk(path)
for f in files:
try:
EXECUTE_C_PROGRAM

You're going to have to explain clearly what you mean by
"EXECUTE_C_PROGRAM". If you want to, you can certainly run a
binary executable that was generated from C source, (e.g. an
ELF file under Linux or whatever a .exe file is under Windows).

Appears I was finger-tied. I meant "a C program that opens and reads
files" while Python does everything else. How does one integrate C into
a Python script like that?

So, instead of this:

for root, files, dirs in os.walk(path)
for f in files:
try:
x = file(f, 'rb')
data = x.read()
x.close()
this:

for root, files, dirs in os.walk(path)
for f in files:
try:
EXECUTE_C_PROGRAM

From the Simpsons:
Frink: "Here we have an ordinary square."
Wiggum: "Whoa! Slow down egghead!"

[It's me]

I would expect C to run circles around the same operation under Python. As
a general rule of thumb, you should use C for time cirtical operations
(computer time, that is), and use Python for human time critical situations
(you can get a program developed much faster).

I just discovered a magical package call SWIG (http://www.swig.org) that
makes writing C wrappers for Python always a child's play. It's incredible!
Where were these guys years ago when I had to pay somebody moocho money to
develop a script language wrapper for my application!!!

--
It's me
"Brad Tilley" <br********@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:cp**********@solaris.cc.vt.edu...

Grant Edwards wrote:

Huh? What do you mean "write a file open"? You want to read a
C source file and execute the C source? If you have access to
a C interpreter, I guess you could invoke the interpreter from
python using popen, and feed the C source to it. Alternatively
you could invoke a compiler and linker from C to generate an
executable and then execute the resulting file.

for root, files, dirs in os.walk(path)
for f in files:
try:
EXECUTE_C_PROGRAM

You're going to have to explain clearly what you mean by
"EXECUTE_C_PROGRAM". If you want to, you can certainly run a
binary executable that was generated from C source, (e.g. an
ELF file under Linux or whatever a .exe file is under Windows).

Appears I was finger-tied. I meant "a C program that opens and reads
files" while Python does everything else. How does one integrate C into
a Python script like that?

So, instead of this:

for root, files, dirs in os.walk(path)
for f in files:
try:
x = file(f, 'rb')
data = x.read()
x.close()
this:

for root, files, dirs in os.walk(path)
for f in files:
try:
EXECUTE_C_PROGRAM

From the Simpsons:
Frink: "Here we have an ordinary square."
Wiggum: "Whoa! Slow down egghead!"

[Fredrik Lundh]

Brad Tilley wrote:

for root, files, dirs in os.walk(path)
for f in files:
try:
EXECUTE_C_PROGRAM

http://docs.python.org/lib/module-subprocess.html

this module in new in 2.4; for older version, os.system() or the os.popen()
family might be what you're looking for. see the "Replacing Older Functions
with the subprocess Module" section for more info.

</F>

[Steven Bethard]

It's me wrote:

I would expect C to run circles around the same operation under Python.

You should probably only expect C to run circles around the same
operations when those operations implemented entirely in Python. In the
specific (trivial) example given, I wouldn't expect Python to be much
slower:

for root, files, dirs in os.walk(path)
for f in files:
try:
x = file(f, 'rb')
data = x.read()
x.close()

Remember that CPython is implemented in C, and so all the builtin types
(including file) basically execute C code directly. My experience with
Python file objects is that they are quite fast when you're doing simple
things like the example above. (In fact, I usually find that Python is
faster than Java for things like this.)

Of course, the example above is almost certainly omitting some code that
really gets executed, and without knowing what that code does, it would
be difficult to predict exactly what performance gain you would get from
reimplementing it in C. Profile the app first, find out where the tight
spots are, and then reimplement in C if necessary (often, it isn't).

STeve

[Brad Tilley]

Steven Bethard wrote:

for root, files, dirs in os.walk(path)
for f in files:
try:
x = file(f, 'rb')
data = x.read()
x.close()

Remember that CPython is implemented in C, and so all the builtin types
(including file) basically execute C code directly. My experience with
Python file objects is that they are quite fast when you're doing simple
things like the example above.

I'm dealing with a terabyte of files. Perhaps I should have mentioned that.

[Grant Edwards]

On 2004-12-09, Brad Tilley <br********@gmail.com> wrote:

You're going to have to explain clearly what you mean by
"EXECUTE_C_PROGRAM". If you want to, you can certainly run a
binary executable that was generated from C source, (e.g. an
ELF file under Linux or whatever a .exe file is under
Windows).
Appears I was finger-tied. I meant "a C program that opens and
reads files"

That's still too vague to be meaningful. Just reading a file
seems pointless:

cat foo >/dev/null

Here, "cat" is a C program that "opens and reads" the file
named foo.
while Python does everything else. How does one
integrate C into a Python script like that?

So, instead of this:

for root, files, dirs in os.walk(path)
for f in files:
try:
x = file(f, 'rb')
data = x.read()
x.close()
this:

for root, files, dirs in os.walk(path)
for f in files:
try:
EXECUTE_C_PROGRAM

So you want the data returned to your Python program? If so,
you can't just execute a C program. If you want to use the
data in the file, you have to read the data from _somewhere_.

You can read it directly from the file, or you can read it from
a pipe, where it was put by the program that read it from the
file. The former is going to be far, far faster.

--
Grant Edwards grante Yow! Am I SHOPLIFTING?
at
visi.com

[Grant Edwards]

On 2004-12-09, Brad Tilley <br********@gmail.com> wrote:

Steven Bethard wrote:

for root, files, dirs in os.walk(path)
for f in files:
try:
x = file(f, 'rb')
data = x.read()
x.close()

Remember that CPython is implemented in C, and so all the builtin types
(including file) basically execute C code directly. My experience with
Python file objects is that they are quite fast when you're doing simple
things like the example above.

I'm dealing with a terabyte of files. Perhaps I should have mentioned that.

And you think you're going to read the entire file consisting
of terabytes of data into memory using either C or Python?
[That's the example you gave.]

Sounds like maybe you need to mmap() the files?

Or at least tell us what you're trying to do so we can make
more intelligent suggestions.

--
Grant Edwards grante Yow! I invented skydiving
at in 1989!
visi.com

[Brad Tilley]

Grant Edwards wrote:

On 2004-12-09, Brad Tilley <br********@gmail.com> wrote:

Steven Bethard wrote:

>for root, files, dirs in os.walk(path)
> for f in files:
> try:
> x = file(f, 'rb')
> data = x.read()
> x.close()
Remember that CPython is implemented in C, and so all the builtin types
(including file) basically execute C code directly. My experience with
Python file objects is that they are quite fast when you're doing simple
things like the example above.

I'm dealing with a terabyte of files. Perhaps I should have mentioned that.

And you think you're going to read the entire file consisting
of terabytes of data into memory using either C or Python?
[That's the example you gave.]

Sounds like maybe you need to mmap() the files?

Or at least tell us what you're trying to do so we can make
more intelligent suggestions.

It was an overly-simplistic example. I realize that I can't read all of
the data into memory at once. I think that's obvious to most anyone.

I just want to know the basics of using C and Python together when the
need arises, that's all, I don't want to write a book about what exactly
it is that I'm involved in.

I'm going to take It's Me's advice and have a look at SWIG.

Thank you,

Brad

[Grant Edwards]

On 2004-12-09, Brad Tilley <br********@gmail.com> wrote:

I just want to know the basics of using C and Python together
when the need arises, that's all, I don't want to write a book
about what exactly it is that I'm involved in.

I'm going to take It's Me's advice and have a look at SWIG.

There's also the ctypes module that lets you load and call
library functions written in C (or anything else with C calling
conventions). IMO, it's a bit easier to use than SWIG, since
you don't have to actually generate/install any python modules
to use it.

But, neither SWIG nor cypes has anything to do with executing a
_program_ written in C, which is what I thought you were asking
about...

--
Grant Edwards grante Yow! I had pancake makeup
at for brunch!
visi.com

[Caleb Hattingh]

Hi Brad

Not that I'm an expert but note:

1. If you already know C, fair enough. You should know what you are
getting into then. I sure as heck don't know it very well at all and I'm
not gonna make that time investment now. MAYBE if I really really needed
the extra speed (but this seems to arise more infrequently than one would
imagine) for something where I couldn't interface with some existing
binary library.

2. The PythonForDelphi crowd makes the creation of native binary
extensions with Delphi pathetically easy (which is about equivalent to the
degree of complexity I can handle). As I said in a previous post, C is
not the only game in town for binary extensions. Of course, I happen to
already know ObjectPascal (Delphi) quite well, so for me it is a good fit
- maybe not so much for you if pascal would be new for you. If both
pascal AND C are new for you, I suspect you will find Delphi a fair bit
easier (& faster) to learn. btw, Works with Kylix also. I don't know
about FPC.

3. As someone said previously, some of the 'builtin' python functionality
is compiled C anyway. This point alone often makes it very difficult to
qualify statements like 'python is slow'. You could even start with the
Cpython source for something like file access and see how you go with
optimization, if *that* performance was not enough for you.

4. Nobody mentioned Pyrex yet, I think it kinda allows you to write C
within your python scripts, and then handles that all intellligently,
compiles the necessary bits, and so on - try a google search for the facts
rather than my broken memory of features.

5. If all you are is curious about interfacing a C extension with Python -
that's cool too. I would be interested in hearing what to look out for in
the learning stage of developing C-extensions, for when I am overcome by
curiosity and feel the need to try it out.

Keep well
Caleb

I just want to know the basics of using C and Python together when the
need arises, that's all, I don't want to write a book about what exactly
it is that I'm involved in.

I'm going to take It's Me's advice and have a look at SWIG.

Thank you,

Brad

[Jeff Shannon]

Brad Tilley wrote:

I just want to know the basics of using C and Python together when the
need arises, that's all, I don't want to write a book about what
exactly it is that I'm involved in.

Well, there's several different ways of using C and Python together, so
the only meaningful answer we can give you is "It depends on what you're
trying to do."

What your pseudocode seems to show would be appropriate for something
along the lines of os.system(), os.startfile(), or some variant of
popen(). Any of these will run a free-standing executable program. But
they may not be ideal for making data available to Python.

There's ctypes, which will allow you to call functions in a C shared
library (i.e. a DLL, not sure if it works for *nix .so files).

There's also the possibility of writing Python extensions in C. This is
a bit more up-front work, but may make usage easier. The extension
(provided it's not buggy) works just like any other Python module.

SWIG is a tool that automates the wrapping of existing C code into a
Python extension. Whether this is a suitable tool for you depends on
what code you already have, and what responsibilities you're hoping to
pass from Python code into C code.

And do note that, as others have said, calling C code won't
*necessarily* make your program work faster. It's only going to help if
you're replacing slow Python code with faster C code -- not all Python
code is slow, and not all C code is fast, and if you're writing C from
scratch then you want to be sure where the hotspots are and focus on
converting only those areas to C.

Jeff Shannon
Technician/Programmer
Credit International

[Matt Gerrans]

"Brad Tilley" <br********@gmail.com> wrote:

I'm dealing with a terabyte of files. Perhaps I should have mentioned
that.

I wouldn't automatically assume that recursing the directories with a Python
script that calls a C program for each file is faster than doing the
processing in Python. For example, I found that using zlib.crc32()
directly in Python was no slower than calling a C program that calculates
CRCs of files. (for huge files, it was important to find the right size
buffer to use and not try to read the whole thing at once, of course -- but
the C program had to do the same thing). However, if all the processing
is done in Python code (instead of a C extension), there probably would be a
big performance difference. It is just a question of whether the overhead
of starting a separate process for each file is more time consuming than the
difference between the Python and C implementations.

The pure Python implementation is probably easier to write, so you can do it
that way and you're have something that works. *Then* if the performance is
not acceptable, try the other route.

Additionally, depending on how much directory crawling you are doing, you
can just do the whole darned thing in C and save another minute or so.

Anyway, I didn't see the simple answer to your question in this thread (that
doesn't mean it wasn't there). I think you could do something like this:

for root, files, dirs in os.walk(path)
for f in files:
try:
os.system( "cprog %s" % (os.path.join(root,f) )

I prefer naming like this, though:

for directory, filenames, subdirs in os.walk(startpath):
for filename in filenames:
...

(particularly, since "root" will not be the root directory, except maybe
once).

- Matt

[Armin Steinhoff]

Brad Tilley wrote:

Is it possible to write a file open, then read program in C and then
call the C program from a Python script like this:

for root, files, dirs in os.walk(path)
for f in files:
try:
EXECUTE_C_PROGRAM

If possible, how much faster would this be over a pure Python solution?
I would compile that C program into a shared library (*.so or *.dll ) in
order to use that shared library with ctypes ... that's the easiest way,
IMHO :) ( http://starship.python.net/crew/theller/ctypes )

Regards

Armin


Thank you,

Brad

[bitshadow]

I think jeff gave the most succint advice as to your question. Yo
should consider your problem carefully and decide if that is what yo
really need. And when in doubt consult the 'documentation.
(http://docs.python.org/ext/ext.html

--
bitshado
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
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View this thread: http://lampforums.org/showthread.php?t=9312

[Francis Lavoie]

Do we need a special account or something to use the newsgroup instead
of the mailling list?

[Steve Holden]

Francis Lavoie wrote:

Do we need a special account or something to use the newsgroup instead
of the mailling list?

Yes, you have to find an NNTP server that carries comp.lang.python. It's
possible your Internet service provider runs such a news server and will
let you access it as a part of your subscription (this is the case for
me). If not then you'll have to contract with a third party news service
(some of htese are available for free).

Alternatively, take a look at http://www.gmane.com/, a mailing
list/newsgroup interface service which I believe offers an NNTP service.

regards
Steve
--
http://www.holdenweb.com
http://pydish.holdenweb.com
Holden Web LLC [phone]

[Egor Bolonev]

On Sun, 12 Dec 2004 14:57:50 -0500, Francis Lavoie <fr******@aei.ca> wrote:

Do we need a special account or something to use the newsgroup instead
of the mailling list?

why we use newsgroup instead of mailing list?

[Francis Lavoie]

Egor Bolonev wrote:

On Sun, 12 Dec 2004 14:57:50 -0500, Francis Lavoie <fr******@aei.ca>
wrote:

Do we need a special account or something to use the newsgroup
instead of the mailling list?

why we use newsgroup instead of mailing list?

1. to keep my mail separated from the python discussion.
And this mailinglist/newsgroup is quite big, 150 messages a day, is
a lot of mail to go trough.
It is easier to delete all mail without deleting my own one when I
want to. Sometime there's subject I dont have answer or dont interest
me. Othertime I'm tired or I didn't check my mail for a couple of day
and it has become huge.
2. Better and faster search. Has I said, I dont want to keep all these
mail in my mail box
3. I don't want to be notice 2 time per minute for mail. I prefer using
it like a forum
Yes, you have to find an NNTP server that carries comp.lang.python. It's possible your Internet service provider runs such a news server and
will let you access it as a part of your subscription (this is the case
for me). If not then you'll have to contract with a third party news
service (some of htese are available for free).
Alternatively, take a look at http://www.gmane.com/, a mailing list/newsgroup interface service which I believe offers an NNTP service.regards
Steve

thank you, I was not well informed on how it does work. I though it was
like a mailinglist or jabber like, just add it in your news section and
it will connect directly on a news server. But it work now.

[Terry Reedy]

"Egor Bolonev" <eb******@mail.ru> wrote in message
news:op**************@theurs.octopusnet.lan...

On Sun, 12 Dec 2004 14:57:50 -0500, Francis Lavoie <fr******@aei.ca>
wrote:

Do we need a special account or something to use the newsgroup instead
of the mailling list?

news.gmane.org gives you access to technical mailing lists, including about
50 Python lists, via a newgroup interface. All you need is a newsreader
program or a combined mail/news program and set up an 'account' for that
program.
why we use newsgroup instead of mailing list?

A. newsgroup interface keeps each group/list segregated from regular email
(and spam) without having to create an inbox and a rule to somehow direct
mail from a particular list to that box.

B. newsgroup interface allows one to only download articles that one wants
to read. It also allows easy bulk deletion of downloaded material.

Terry J. Reedy

[Abe Mathews]

I've got mine delivered to a gmail account. For me, it was much
easier than trying to find a NNTP host that would allow me to check
remotely (many ISP's don't). Set up a filter so that everything that
comes in from the list is marked "Python". Star anything that looks
promising, delete the rest.

I've yet to use more than 6% of the total allowed space.

Abe Mathews
On Sun, 12 Dec 2004 19:52:10 -0500, Francis Lavoie <fr******@aei.ca> wrote:

Egor Bolonev wrote:

On Sun, 12 Dec 2004 14:57:50 -0500, Francis Lavoie <fr******@aei.ca>
wrote:

Do we need a special account or something to use the newsgroup
instead of the mailling list?

why we use newsgroup instead of mailing list?

1. to keep my mail separated from the python discussion.
And this mailinglist/newsgroup is quite big, 150 messages a day, is
a lot of mail to go trough.
It is easier to delete all mail without deleting my own one when I
want to. Sometime there's subject I dont have answer or dont interest
me. Othertime I'm tired or I didn't check my mail for a couple of day
and it has become huge.
2. Better and faster search. Has I said, I dont want to keep all these
mail in my mail box
3. I don't want to be notice 2 time per minute for mail. I prefer using
it like a forum

>Yes, you have to find an NNTP server that carries comp.lang.python.

It's possible your Internet service provider runs such a news server and
will let you access it as a part of your subscription (this is the case
for me). If not then you'll have to contract with a third party news
service (some of htese are available for free).

>Alternatively, take a look at http://www.gmane.com/, a mailing

list/newsgroup interface service which I believe offers an NNTP service.

>regards
> Steve

thank you, I was not well informed on how it does work. I though it was
like a mailinglist or jabber like, just add it in your news section and
it will connect directly on a news server. But it work now.


--
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list