Web-based client code execution

[Paul Watson]

What are the options?

The user to hits a web page, downloads code (Python I hope), execute it,
and be able to return the results. It needs to be able to go through
standard HTTP so that it could be run from behind a corporate firewall
without any other ports being opened.

Am I stuck doing an ActiveX control?

Yes, I know that downloading code and executing on the client machine is
a security risk. This will be for the employee's computers to connect.
This will not be a publicly available web page.

I have read some about AJAX. Is there an APAX coming for Python?

[Steve]

AJAX works because browsers can execute javascript. I don't know of a
browser that can execute python. Basically your stuck with java or
javascript because everything else really isn't cross platform.

[Steve]

AJAX works because browsers can execute javascript. I don't know of a
browser that can execute python. Basically your stuck with java or
javascript because everything else really isn't cross platform.

[Paul Watson]

Steve wrote:

AJAX works because browsers can execute javascript. I don't know of a
browser that can execute python. Basically your stuck with java or
javascript because everything else really isn't cross platform.

Well, I guess the Grail browser could run Python, but I do not think I
can go there.

I need READ access to the users local disk storage. Can I do this in
Javascript, or should I bite the bullet and turn to ActiveX?

[Paul Watson]

Steve wrote:

AJAX works because browsers can execute javascript. I don't know of a
browser that can execute python. Basically your stuck with java or
javascript because everything else really isn't cross platform.

Well, I guess the Grail browser could run Python, but I do not think I
can go there.

I need READ access to the users local disk storage. Can I do this in
Javascript, or should I bite the bullet and turn to ActiveX?

[Steve]

You universally won't be able to do that with javascript, only with and
extension on firefox. ActiveX will limit you to windows only with ie.
Which isn't bad you still get a 80% market share.

[Steve]

You universally won't be able to do that with javascript, only with and
extension on firefox. ActiveX will limit you to windows only with ie.
Which isn't bad you still get a 80% market share.

[Stephen Kellett]

In message <11*********************@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups. com>, Steve
<st*********@gmail.com> writes

AJAX works because browsers can execute javascript. I don't know of a
browser that can execute python. Basically your stuck with java or
javascript because everything else really isn't cross platform.

ActiveState do a version of Python that can run in a script tag like
JavaScript and VBScript. This requires Windows Scripting Host. They also
do a similar thing for Perl, not sure about TCL.

The syntax is along the lines of

<SCRIPT language="PythonScript">
Python goes here
</SCRIPT>

I remember reading this about PerlScript and I'm pretty sure I'm correct
in remembering there is a PythonScript. Anyway you are limited to
ActiveState and Windows Scripting Host.

For pragmatic reasons I think you would be better concentrating on
JavaScript for the Client and your language of choice
Python/Ruby/Lua/whatever for the server part of AJAX.

Stephen
--
Stephen Kellett
Object Media Limited http://www.objmedia.demon.co.uk/software.html
Computer Consultancy, Software Development
Windows C++, Java, Assembler, Performance Analysis, Troubleshooting

[Stephen Kellett]

In message <11*********************@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups. com>, Steve
<st*********@gmail.com> writes

AJAX works because browsers can execute javascript. I don't know of a
browser that can execute python. Basically your stuck with java or
javascript because everything else really isn't cross platform.

ActiveState do a version of Python that can run in a script tag like
JavaScript and VBScript. This requires Windows Scripting Host. They also
do a similar thing for Perl, not sure about TCL.

The syntax is along the lines of

<SCRIPT language="PythonScript">
Python goes here
</SCRIPT>

I remember reading this about PerlScript and I'm pretty sure I'm correct
in remembering there is a PythonScript. Anyway you are limited to
ActiveState and Windows Scripting Host.

For pragmatic reasons I think you would be better concentrating on
JavaScript for the Client and your language of choice
Python/Ruby/Lua/whatever for the server part of AJAX.

Stephen
--
Stephen Kellett
Object Media Limited http://www.objmedia.demon.co.uk/software.html
Computer Consultancy, Software Development
Windows C++, Java, Assembler, Performance Analysis, Troubleshooting

[Chris Mellon]

On 11/18/05, Paul Watson <pw*****@redlinepy.com> wrote:

Steve wrote:

AJAX works because browsers can execute javascript. I don't know of a
browser that can execute python. Basically your stuck with java or
javascript because everything else really isn't cross platform.
Well, I guess the Grail browser could run Python, but I do not think I
can go there.

I need READ access to the users local disk storage. Can I do this in
Javascript, or should I bite the bullet and turn to ActiveX?

This can only be done with scripts by disabling or bypassing browser
security restrictions. It can't even be done by zone in IE, only
globally, and I don't know if you can do it at all in Mozilla based
browsers.

A signed activex control or Java Applet (that registers for the
appropriate sandbox permissions) will work.

Overall, it's probably simplest not to do any of these and simply
write a standard application that you have users download and run.
This is the safest and most straightforward solution, and honestly
what you save in configuration managment when people call you
wondering why it doesn't work is probably worth the extra effort it
takes them to actually run your application.
--
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list

[Chris Mellon]

On 11/18/05, Paul Watson <pw*****@redlinepy.com> wrote:

Steve wrote:

AJAX works because browsers can execute javascript. I don't know of a
browser that can execute python. Basically your stuck with java or
javascript because everything else really isn't cross platform.
Well, I guess the Grail browser could run Python, but I do not think I
can go there.

I need READ access to the users local disk storage. Can I do this in
Javascript, or should I bite the bullet and turn to ActiveX?

This can only be done with scripts by disabling or bypassing browser
security restrictions. It can't even be done by zone in IE, only
globally, and I don't know if you can do it at all in Mozilla based
browsers.

A signed activex control or Java Applet (that registers for the
appropriate sandbox permissions) will work.

Overall, it's probably simplest not to do any of these and simply
write a standard application that you have users download and run.
This is the safest and most straightforward solution, and honestly
what you save in configuration managment when people call you
wondering why it doesn't work is probably worth the extra effort it
takes them to actually run your application.
--
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list

[David Wahler]

Steve wrote:

AJAX works because browsers can execute javascript. I don't know of a
browser that can execute python. Basically your stuck with java or
javascript because everything else really isn't cross platform

Don't jump to conclusions...
http://dwahler.ky/python/

If you really, really want Python in a browser, it's certainly
possible. :)

-- David

[David Wahler]

Steve wrote:

AJAX works because browsers can execute javascript. I don't know of a
browser that can execute python. Basically your stuck with java or
javascript because everything else really isn't cross platform

Don't jump to conclusions...
http://dwahler.ky/python/

If you really, really want Python in a browser, it's certainly
possible. :)

-- David

[Kent Johnson]

Stephen Kellett wrote:

In message <11*********************@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups. com>, Steve
<st*********@gmail.com> writes

AJAX works because browsers can execute javascript. I don't know of a
browser that can execute python. Basically your stuck with java or
javascript because everything else really isn't cross platform.

ActiveState do a version of Python that can run in a script tag like
JavaScript and VBScript. This requires Windows Scripting Host. They also
do a similar thing for Perl, not sure about TCL.

See
http://groups.google.com/group/comp....34acee66b40830

Kent

[Kent Johnson]

Stephen Kellett wrote:

In message <11*********************@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups. com>, Steve
<st*********@gmail.com> writes

AJAX works because browsers can execute javascript. I don't know of a
browser that can execute python. Basically your stuck with java or
javascript because everything else really isn't cross platform.

ActiveState do a version of Python that can run in a script tag like
JavaScript and VBScript. This requires Windows Scripting Host. They also
do a similar thing for Perl, not sure about TCL.

See
http://groups.google.com/group/comp....34acee66b40830

Kent

[Robert Kern]

Paul Watson wrote:

I have read some about AJAX. Is there an APAX coming for Python?

Not until browsers have embedded Python interpreters. There's been talk
about doing this in Mozilla, but I don't think the talk has turned into
usable code, yet.

--
Robert Kern
ro*********@gmail.com

"In the fields of hell where the grass grows high
Are the graves of dreams allowed to die."
-- Richard Harter

[Robert Kern]

Paul Watson wrote:

I have read some about AJAX. Is there an APAX coming for Python?

Not until browsers have embedded Python interpreters. There's been talk
about doing this in Mozilla, but I don't think the talk has turned into
usable code, yet.

--
Robert Kern
ro*********@gmail.com

"In the fields of hell where the grass grows high
Are the graves of dreams allowed to die."
-- Richard Harter

[Robin Becker]

David Wahler wrote:

Steve wrote:

AJAX works because browsers can execute javascript. I don't know of a
browser that can execute python. Basically your stuck with java or
javascript because everything else really isn't cross platform

Don't jump to conclusions...
http://dwahler.ky/python/

If you really, really want Python in a browser, it's certainly
possible. :)

-- David

well in firefox 1.07 I seem to be getting

Error: unmarshal is not defined
Source File: http://dwahler.ky/python/
Line: 133

--
Robin Becker

[Robin Becker]

David Wahler wrote:

Steve wrote:

AJAX works because browsers can execute javascript. I don't know of a
browser that can execute python. Basically your stuck with java or
javascript because everything else really isn't cross platform

Don't jump to conclusions...
http://dwahler.ky/python/

If you really, really want Python in a browser, it's certainly
possible. :)

-- David

well in firefox 1.07 I seem to be getting

Error: unmarshal is not defined
Source File: http://dwahler.ky/python/
Line: 133

--
Robin Becker

[John J. Lee]

Paul Watson <pw*****@redlinepy.com> writes:

What are the options?

The user to hits a web page, downloads code (Python I hope), execute it,
and be able to return the results. It needs to be able to go through
standard HTTP so that it could be run from behind a corporate firewall
without any other ports being opened.

Am I stuck doing an ActiveX control?

[...]

If you just need to talk on port 80, just go ahead and do that (module
socket, module httplib, module urllib2, urllib.getproxies, etc), and
write a normal desktop application.
If it must run in a browser, here is some food for thought:
Compile Python to JavaScript -- very cool

http://www.aminus.org/blogs/index.ph...ajax_framework

http://www.aminus.org/blogs/index.ph...ajax_is_in_svn
Plain old AJAX with Python on server side

https://sourceforge.net/projects/json-py/

http://www.google.co.uk/search?q=aja...on&btnG=Search (um, ignore the 1st result)
Write Java applets in Python

http://www.jython.org/
Flash 'local storage'

http://www.macromedia.com/support/do...lp/help02.html

Sort-of AJAX-for-Flash stuff

http://www.cs.unc.edu/~parente/tech/tr04.shtml
http://www.simonf.com/flap/

Flash itself (boo;-)

http://www.macromedia.com/
XUL and PyXPCOM (Firefox only)

http://www.xulplanet.com/

http://trac.nunatak.com.au/projects/nufox
Firefox future capabilities in this direction (probably most of this
is relevant)

http://www.mozilla.org/roadmap/gecko-1.9-roadmap.html

http://weblogs.mozillazine.org/roadm...s/2005_09.html
John

[John J. Lee]

Paul Watson <pw*****@redlinepy.com> writes:

What are the options?

The user to hits a web page, downloads code (Python I hope), execute it,
and be able to return the results. It needs to be able to go through
standard HTTP so that it could be run from behind a corporate firewall
without any other ports being opened.

Am I stuck doing an ActiveX control?

[...]

If you just need to talk on port 80, just go ahead and do that (module
socket, module httplib, module urllib2, urllib.getproxies, etc), and
write a normal desktop application.
If it must run in a browser, here is some food for thought:
Compile Python to JavaScript -- very cool

http://www.aminus.org/blogs/index.ph...ajax_framework

http://www.aminus.org/blogs/index.ph...ajax_is_in_svn
Plain old AJAX with Python on server side

https://sourceforge.net/projects/json-py/

http://www.google.co.uk/search?q=aja...on&btnG=Search (um, ignore the 1st result)
Write Java applets in Python

http://www.jython.org/
Flash 'local storage'

http://www.macromedia.com/support/do...lp/help02.html

Sort-of AJAX-for-Flash stuff

http://www.cs.unc.edu/~parente/tech/tr04.shtml
http://www.simonf.com/flap/

Flash itself (boo;-)

http://www.macromedia.com/
XUL and PyXPCOM (Firefox only)

http://www.xulplanet.com/

http://trac.nunatak.com.au/projects/nufox
Firefox future capabilities in this direction (probably most of this
is relevant)

http://www.mozilla.org/roadmap/gecko-1.9-roadmap.html

http://weblogs.mozillazine.org/roadm...s/2005_09.html
John

[Paul Watson]

Kent Johnson wrote:

Stephen Kellett wrote:

In message <11*********************@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups. com>,
Steve <st*********@gmail.com> writes

AJAX works because browsers can execute javascript. I don't know of a
browser that can execute python. Basically your stuck with java or
javascript because everything else really isn't cross platform.

ActiveState do a version of Python that can run in a script tag like
JavaScript and VBScript. This requires Windows Scripting Host. They
also do a similar thing for Perl, not sure about TCL.

See
http://groups.google.com/group/comp....34acee66b40830

Kent

Please correct my misunderstanding if I am wrong, but I thought that
this runs server-side only and requires Microsoft IIS as the httpd
server. Is that correct?

[Paul Watson]

Kent Johnson wrote:

Stephen Kellett wrote:

In message <11*********************@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups. com>,
Steve <st*********@gmail.com> writes

AJAX works because browsers can execute javascript. I don't know of a
browser that can execute python. Basically your stuck with java or
javascript because everything else really isn't cross platform.

ActiveState do a version of Python that can run in a script tag like
JavaScript and VBScript. This requires Windows Scripting Host. They
also do a similar thing for Perl, not sure about TCL.

See
http://groups.google.com/group/comp....34acee66b40830

Kent

Please correct my misunderstanding if I am wrong, but I thought that
this runs server-side only and requires Microsoft IIS as the httpd
server. Is that correct?

[Paul Watson]

David Wahler wrote:

Steve wrote:

AJAX works because browsers can execute javascript. I don't know of a
browser that can execute python. Basically your stuck with java or
javascript because everything else really isn't cross platform

Don't jump to conclusions...
http://dwahler.ky/python/

If you really, really want Python in a browser, it's certainly
possible. :)

-- David

This looks interesting, but looks even more fragile than CrackAJAX.

http://www.aminus.org/blogs/index.ph...ajax_framework

All of this comes down to Javascript which will still not allow me to
read local, client files. Right?

[Paul Watson]

David Wahler wrote:

Steve wrote:

AJAX works because browsers can execute javascript. I don't know of a
browser that can execute python. Basically your stuck with java or
javascript because everything else really isn't cross platform

Don't jump to conclusions...
http://dwahler.ky/python/

If you really, really want Python in a browser, it's certainly
possible. :)

-- David

This looks interesting, but looks even more fragile than CrackAJAX.

http://www.aminus.org/blogs/index.ph...ajax_framework

All of this comes down to Javascript which will still not allow me to
read local, client files. Right?

[Kent Johnson]

Paul Watson wrote:

Kent Johnson wrote:

Stephen Kellett wrote:

ActiveState do a version of Python that can run in a script tag like
JavaScript and VBScript. This requires Windows Scripting Host. They
also do a similar thing for Perl, not sure about TCL.

See
http://groups.google.com/group/comp....34acee66b40830

Please correct my misunderstanding if I am wrong, but I thought that
this runs server-side only and requires Microsoft IIS as the httpd
server. Is that correct?

I haven't tried it but the referenced article seems to be about including Python in a web page to be run in-browser by IE.

Kent

[Kent Johnson]

Paul Watson wrote:

Kent Johnson wrote:

Stephen Kellett wrote:

ActiveState do a version of Python that can run in a script tag like
JavaScript and VBScript. This requires Windows Scripting Host. They
also do a similar thing for Perl, not sure about TCL.

See
http://groups.google.com/group/comp....34acee66b40830

Please correct my misunderstanding if I am wrong, but I thought that
this runs server-side only and requires Microsoft IIS as the httpd
server. Is that correct?

I haven't tried it but the referenced article seems to be about including Python in a web page to be run in-browser by IE.

Kent

[Paul Watson]

John J. Lee wrote:

Paul Watson <pw*****@redlinepy.com> writes:

What are the options?

The user to hits a web page, downloads code (Python I hope), execute it,
and be able to return the results. It needs to be able to go through
standard HTTP so that it could be run from behind a corporate firewall
without any other ports being opened.

Am I stuck doing an ActiveX control?

[...]

If you just need to talk on port 80, just go ahead and do that (module
socket, module httplib, module urllib2, urllib.getproxies, etc), and
write a normal desktop application.
If it must run in a browser, here is some food for thought:
Compile Python to JavaScript -- very cool

http://www.aminus.org/blogs/index.ph...ajax_framework

http://www.aminus.org/blogs/index.ph...ajax_is_in_svn
Plain old AJAX with Python on server side

https://sourceforge.net/projects/json-py/

http://www.google.co.uk/search?q=aja...on&btnG=Search (um, ignore the 1st result)
Write Java applets in Python

http://www.jython.org/
Flash 'local storage'

http://www.macromedia.com/support/do...lp/help02.html

Sort-of AJAX-for-Flash stuff

http://www.cs.unc.edu/~parente/tech/tr04.shtml
http://www.simonf.com/flap/

Flash itself (boo;-)

http://www.macromedia.com/
XUL and PyXPCOM (Firefox only)

http://www.xulplanet.com/

http://trac.nunatak.com.au/projects/nufox
Firefox future capabilities in this direction (probably most of this
is relevant)

http://www.mozilla.org/roadmap/gecko-1.9-roadmap.html

http://weblogs.mozillazine.org/roadm...s/2005_09.html
John

I appreciate your long list of references. For this task, I think the
first answer may have to be the one with which to go. A standard
application that talks through port 80 and perhaps can use proxies.

My desire to have the code distributed through a web page is just to
ensure that the user is running the correct version and has not hacked
it in any way. I suppose I can checksum the local client application
and compare it with what is on the server. Then, make a way to
update... ARGH!

Even when future browsers embed Python interpreters, the security
considerations may be such that no one will want to accept code which
can do much locally anyway. Probably the right thing for the public
Internet, Makes it harder to develop internal system management tools.

[Paul Watson]

John J. Lee wrote:

Paul Watson <pw*****@redlinepy.com> writes:

What are the options?

The user to hits a web page, downloads code (Python I hope), execute it,
and be able to return the results. It needs to be able to go through
standard HTTP so that it could be run from behind a corporate firewall
without any other ports being opened.

Am I stuck doing an ActiveX control?

[...]

If you just need to talk on port 80, just go ahead and do that (module
socket, module httplib, module urllib2, urllib.getproxies, etc), and
write a normal desktop application.
If it must run in a browser, here is some food for thought:
Compile Python to JavaScript -- very cool

http://www.aminus.org/blogs/index.ph...ajax_framework

http://www.aminus.org/blogs/index.ph...ajax_is_in_svn
Plain old AJAX with Python on server side

https://sourceforge.net/projects/json-py/

http://www.google.co.uk/search?q=aja...on&btnG=Search (um, ignore the 1st result)
Write Java applets in Python

http://www.jython.org/
Flash 'local storage'

http://www.macromedia.com/support/do...lp/help02.html

Sort-of AJAX-for-Flash stuff

http://www.cs.unc.edu/~parente/tech/tr04.shtml
http://www.simonf.com/flap/

Flash itself (boo;-)

http://www.macromedia.com/
XUL and PyXPCOM (Firefox only)

http://www.xulplanet.com/

http://trac.nunatak.com.au/projects/nufox
Firefox future capabilities in this direction (probably most of this
is relevant)

http://www.mozilla.org/roadmap/gecko-1.9-roadmap.html

http://weblogs.mozillazine.org/roadm...s/2005_09.html
John

I appreciate your long list of references. For this task, I think the
first answer may have to be the one with which to go. A standard
application that talks through port 80 and perhaps can use proxies.

My desire to have the code distributed through a web page is just to
ensure that the user is running the correct version and has not hacked
it in any way. I suppose I can checksum the local client application
and compare it with what is on the server. Then, make a way to
update... ARGH!

Even when future browsers embed Python interpreters, the security
considerations may be such that no one will want to accept code which
can do much locally anyway. Probably the right thing for the public
Internet, Makes it harder to develop internal system management tools.

[Robin Becker]

Paul Watson wrote:
.......

-- David

This looks interesting, but looks even more fragile than CrackAJAX.

http://www.aminus.org/blogs/index.ph...ajax_framework
All of this comes down to Javascript which will still not allow me to
read local, client files. Right?

I think reading files is easy; just get the client browser to submit a
form with the file as an upload. Hard part is getting the path(s) right.
--
Robin Becker

[Robin Becker]

Paul Watson wrote:
.......

-- David

This looks interesting, but looks even more fragile than CrackAJAX.

http://www.aminus.org/blogs/index.ph...ajax_framework
All of this comes down to Javascript which will still not allow me to
read local, client files. Right?

I think reading files is easy; just get the client browser to submit a
form with the file as an upload. Hard part is getting the path(s) right.
--
Robin Becker