Help With Hiring Python Developers

[fuego]

My company (http://primedia.com/divisions/businessinformation/) has
two job openings that we're having a heckuva time filling. We've
posted at Monster, Dice, jobs.perl.org and python.jobmart.com. Can
anyone advise other job boards that might be helpful? Also, feel free
to have a look at the job description and let me know if there is
anything that we're missing. This is the first time we've recruited
specifically for these Python and Zope, as we've had internal
advocates who have brought its use to critical mass.
http://jobs.primediabusiness.com/ar/...lyst/index.htm

Thanks in advance!

[Alex Martelli]

fuego <fu*****@excite.com> wrote:

My company (http://primedia.com/divisions/businessinformation/) has
two job openings that we're having a heckuva time filling. We've
posted at Monster, Dice, jobs.perl.org and python.jobmart.com. Can
anyone advise other job boards that might be helpful? Also, feel free

Have you tried python.org? I believe they list jobs offers too,
nowadays. Also <http://www.pythonandzope.com/JobMarket/index_html>?

Could also be just that the job market is tight for Manhattan-local
candidates right now... considering you accept Perl as well as Python,
and have Zope/Plone only as 'desired' and not 'required', I'd say you're
casting as wide a net as feasible, and then some, in terms of skills
background.
Alex

[Bill McClain]

On 2004-12-01, fuego <fu*****@excite.com> wrote:

My company (http://primedia.com/divisions/businessinformation/) has
two job openings that we're having a heckuva time filling.

Allow offsite workers and you'll have all the candidates you want.

-Bill
--
Sattre Press The King in Yellow
http://sattre-press.com/ by Robert W. Chambers
in**@sattre-press.com http://sattre-press.com/kiy.html

[Skip Montanaro]

fuego> We've posted at Monster, Dice, jobs.perl.org and
fuego> python.jobmart.com. Can anyone advise other job boards that
fuego> might be helpful?

http://www.python.org/Jobs-howto.html

Skip

[Miklós P]

"fuego" <fu*****@excite.com> wrote in message
news:38**************************@posting.google.c om...

My company (http://primedia.com/divisions/businessinformation/) has
two job openings that we're having a heckuva time filling. We've
posted at Monster, Dice, jobs.perl.org and python.jobmart.com. Can
anyone advise other job boards that might be helpful? Also, feel free ... Thanks in advance!

Hm, you're looking for *Manhattan locals* who are required to have Perl
skills (i.e. magically working, hardly readable line noise :D ) but
optionally they may have Python skills, too (i.e. magically working, easily
readable pseudo code :D )

How about adding the additional requirement of COBOL and that the applicant
must live in a particular street? :-)

Miklós

[Ed Leafe]

On Dec 1, 2004, at 12:18 PM, Bill McClain wrote:

My company (http://primedia.com/divisions/businessinformation/) has
two job openings that we're having a heckuva time filling.

Allow offsite workers and you'll have all the candidates you want.

Exactly. I'm 5 hours away in Rochester, NY, and might be interested in
the job, but man, that commute would be a pain! ;-)

___/
/
__/
/
____/
Ed Leafe
http://leafe.com/
http://dabodev.com/

[William Park]

fuego <fu*****@excite.com> wrote:

My company (http://primedia.com/divisions/businessinformation/) has
two job openings that we're having a heckuva time filling. We've
posted at Monster, Dice, jobs.perl.org and python.jobmart.com. Can
anyone advise other job boards that might be helpful? Also, feel free
to have a look at the job description and let me know if there is
anything that we're missing. This is the first time we've recruited
specifically for these Python and Zope, as we've had internal
advocates who have brought its use to critical mass.
http://jobs.primediabusiness.com/ar/...lyst/index.htm

Thanks in advance!

You are not being realistic.
- "email marketing" means spams.
- "Perl and/or Python" and " "Zope and Plone" indicate that you
don't know what you are doing, so you're simply listing what any
clueless HR would be doing.
- Manhattan, New York is expensive place to live in, even you're
paying Manhattan dollar.

Instead of listing what I should know, why don't you list what I would
be doing? That is, what problems do you need to solve?

Yours truly,
--
William Park <op**********@yahoo.ca>
Open Geometry Consulting
Linux solution for data processing.

[Yet Another Mike]

"Ed Leafe" <[e-mail]> wrote in message
news:ma**************************************@pyth on.org...

Allow offsite workers and you'll have all the candidates you want.

Exactly. I'm 5 hours away in Rochester, NY, and might be interested

And, if they are willing to go offsite, why not go to India and save lots of
bucks?

If I had the skills, I'd be willing to take a contract up to 1 year with
expenses paid
to visit Manhattan!

[Ian Bicking]

Yet Another Mike wrote:

"Ed Leafe" <[e-mail]> wrote in message
news:ma**************************************@pyth on.org...

Allow offsite workers and you'll have all the candidates you want.

Exactly. I'm 5 hours away in Rochester, NY, and might be interested

And, if they are willing to go offsite, why not go to India and save lots of
bucks?

Trust issues? In general, Python requires you trust your programmers.
People give Java grief about its restricted environment and static
typing, but if you don't trust the programmer to do a good job, at least
with Java they (maybe) can't mess things up as badly for everyone else
working on a project. You can mess things up royally with Python. I
like working with a language that respects my intelligence, but that's
not without its costs.

In general, Python rewards highly-skilled programmers with a
considerably increased productivity. We talk about how Python is also
easy to learn and maintain, and that's still true, but it doesn't mean
that it evens out the differences in productivity between programmers.
In fact, quite the opposite -- that it's easy to learn and maintain
means that there's less risk in using a highly skilled, highly
productive programmer; in other languages you risk being left with a
program that only another highly skilled programmer can maintain.

Also, Python encourages agile methodologies, even if you aren't
explicitly trying to use agile methodologies. They just work well.
They also work well when you can have a more intimate relationship
between developer and project manager or customer. Hiring in India or
elsewhere makes that intimate relationship harder to create. And
frankly, Python is not the language for companies who expect mediocrity
in their programmers, and I think that outsourcing is for companies that
expect mediocrity.

I don't mean to insult Indian programmers -- certainly there are Indian
programmers who are just as good as a good programmer in the US, able to
communicate well, able to work independently, able to judge tradeoffs,
etc. But those aren't the cheap ones. This isn't just about nation of
origin. Outsourcing is about turning programmers into a commodity, and
you can only make a commodity out of something where quality isn't an
issue. In the case of programming, that means you must expect the
lowest common denominator of quality given the constraints. I think
that's a stupid way to look at programming in general, but it's *way*
more stupid with Python.

--
Ian Bicking / ia**@colorstudy.com / http://blog.ianbicking.org

[Michael Fuhr]

Ian Bicking <ia**@colorstudy.com> writes:

...that it's easy to learn and maintain means that there's less risk
in using a highly skilled, highly productive programmer; in other
languages you risk being left with a program that only another
highly skilled programmer can maintain.

Indeed. An acquaintance of mine advocates writing code that only
skilled programmers can maintain (he favors a language that shall
remain nameless but that has been known to resemble modem noise or
cartoon swearing). His justification isn't that he wants to keep
the work in the good-ol'-boy network (although that might be part
of it), but that by making it difficult for anybody else, you're
ensuring that only good programmers ever work on the code.

Tell that to the poor slob who gets stuck with the job because the
department can't or won't hire anybody else.

--
Michael Fuhr
http://www.fuhr.org/~mfuhr/

[Paul Rubin]

mf***@fuhr.org (Michael Fuhr) writes:

Indeed. An acquaintance of mine advocates writing code that only
skilled programmers can maintain (he favors a language that shall
remain nameless but that has been known to resemble modem noise or
cartoon swearing).

TECO? Some of the best programmers I know used it, but I hadn't heard
of anything being done in it in quite a while.

[Aahz]

In article <7x************@ruckus.brouhaha.com>,
Paul Rubin <http://ph****@NOSPAM.invalid> wrote:

mf***@fuhr.org (Michael Fuhr) writes:

Indeed. An acquaintance of mine advocates writing code that only
skilled programmers can maintain (he favors a language that shall
remain nameless but that has been known to resemble modem noise or
cartoon swearing).

TECO? Some of the best programmers I know used it, but I hadn't heard
of anything being done in it in quite a while.

APL. I've heard programmers making similar comments (including possibly
Michael's nameless acquaintance).
--
Aahz (aa**@pythoncraft.com) <*> http://www.pythoncraft.com/

WiFi is the SCSI of the 21st Century -- there are fundamental technical
reasons for sacrificing a goat. (with no apologies to John Woods)

[Andrew Koenig]

"Aahz" <aa**@pythoncraft.com> wrote in message
news:cp**********@panix1.panix.com...

APL. I've heard programmers making similar comments (including possibly
Michael's nameless acquaintance).

Especially programmers who've never used it.

To me, grousing about APL's unusual character set sounds a lot like grousing
about Python's unusual lexical structure. Both language aspects seem weird
at first, but the weirdness rapidly goes away with experience.