Python in a Nutshell for Python 2.4

[Tuang]

Does anyone (esp. Alex, if you're listening) know if there is an
update of Python in a Nutshell coming for Python 2.4?

[Raymond Hettinger]

[Tuang]

Does anyone (esp. Alex, if you're listening) know if there is an
update of Python in a Nutshell coming for Python 2.4?

I would say let the poor guy finish the Py2.4 Cookbook update first; afterall,
he's only one man. But now there are two Martelli's on the case, so you might
be in luck ;-)
Raymond Hettinger

[Alex Martelli]

Raymond Hettinger <vz******@verizon.net> wrote:

[Tuang]

Does anyone (esp. Alex, if you're listening) know if there is an
update of Python in a Nutshell coming for Python 2.4?

I would say let the poor guy finish the Py2.4 Cookbook update first; afterall,
he's only one man. But now there are two Martelli's on the case, so you might
be in luck ;-)

I have not yet negotiated with O'Reilly about a 2nd edition of the
Nutshell, but I do suspect they'll be quite happy letting me write one,
_after_, as RH says, the 2nd edition of the Cookbook (we're still
targeting March 2004 for that one). Considering the times involved etc
etc, I believe it is out of the question for the 2nd edition of the
Nutshell to be in print in time for OSCON 2005 (==July 2005), alas. So,
don't hold your breath: I believe it will be _at least_ a year from now
before you can buy the 2nd edition of the Nutshell in bookstores:-(.
Alex

[R Baumann]

"Alex Martelli" <al*****@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1gkkjme.1larcxs9r607kN%al*****@yahoo.com...

Raymond Hettinger <vz******@verizon.net> wrote:

[Tuang]

Does anyone (esp. Alex, if you're listening) know if there is an
update of Python in a Nutshell coming for Python 2.4?

I would say let the poor guy finish the Py2.4 Cookbook update first; afterall, he's only one man. But now there are two Martelli's on the case, so you might be in luck ;-)

I have not yet negotiated with O'Reilly about a 2nd edition of the
Nutshell, but I do suspect they'll be quite happy letting me write one,
_after_, as RH says, the 2nd edition of the Cookbook (we're still
targeting March 2004 for that one).

I think you've missed your target date! ;-)
<SNIP>

[Josh Close]

On Thu, 23 Sep 2004 13:58:03 +0200, Alex Martelli <al*****@yahoo.com> wrote:

I have not yet negotiated with O'Reilly about a 2nd edition of the
Nutshell, but I do suspect they'll be quite happy letting me write one,
_after_, as RH says, the 2nd edition of the Cookbook (we're still
targeting March 2004 for that one). Considering the times involved etc
etc, I believe it is out of the question for the 2nd edition of the
Nutshell to be in print in time for OSCON 2005 (==July 2005), alas. So,
don't hold your breath: I believe it will be _at least_ a year from now
before you can buy the 2nd edition of the Nutshell in bookstores:-(.
Alex

Is there any particular reason you left out certain things in the
Nutshell book? Like os.fork and syslog, and a few others I can't think
of off the top of my head? Maybe because they work the same as the C
version or something, or there is man pages about it?

Just curious why, and if they'll be in the next version or not.

-Josh

[Alex Martelli]

Josh Close <na****@gmail.com> wrote:
...

Is there any particular reason you left out certain things in the
Nutshell book? Like os.fork and syslog, and a few others I can't think
of off the top of my head? Maybe because they work the same as the C
version or something, or there is man pages about it?
The hardest part of writing the Nutshell was to decide what to include,
or more precisely, what NOT to include, to make it as useful as possible
within the 600-pages limit (I broke that limit, a bit, but not by much;
it's 635 pages all told, I believe). It would have been much easier to
just cover every bit in the standard library, avoid useful stuff that's
not in the standard library (Numeric, Tkinter, mxDateTime, etc etc), and
basically parrot the standard library docs. I believe (judging,
basically, by the reviews I got) that by selectively covering only "the
most useful parts" (in my own very personal judgment...) of the standard
library, I managed to make the book more useful to most readers than it
would have been had I taken the easier route. The exhaustive online
docs _are_ there, after all, when you need to make sure you can see the
docs about _every_thing, without Alex's judgment getting in the way; the
Nutshell hopefully covers the parts most readers need most often.

The fact that some parts of the Python standard library only work under
some platforms, but not others, is something I gave high priority to, in
deciding what to cover and what not. I think page xi is quite up-front
about it: "This book ... focuses on Python's cross-platform
capabilities". I do cover _some_ platform-specific aspects, such as
"richer text I/O" (readline, Gonnerman's Alternative Readline, curses,
Gonnerman's WConio, Lundh's Console -- sometimes with just very brief
mentions...), because my experience suggests that such functionality IS
highly sought after by the kind of readers who may often be not
experienced enough to have an easy time finding out the info otherwise.
But mostly, the Nutshell is focused on cross-platform, not platform
specific stuff.

Just curious why, and if they'll be in the next version or not.

I will review every decision I've made, and, should there be an outcry
in favour of platform-specific coverage (so far, I haven't heard many
complaints about the cross-platform focus), I may have to reconsider --
dropping something else (deciding _what_ to drop will be sheer agony...)
to make space for syslog, linuxaudiodev, _winreg, EasyDialogs, whatever.

I think there should be separate books about platform-specific Python
(so far, there's one -- alas getting rather old -- about Windows, but
none about the Mac, Linux, or other Unixen), since just focusing on the
cross-platform potential of Python fills a decent-sized book to the
point it's bursting at the seams (I'm not interested in 1000+ pages
books, and neither is O'Reilly for its Nutshell series). Whether
publishers, and the book-buyers' market, agree with me, is of course
another issue (a proposal for a platform-specific book about Python for
the Mac got rejected -- by the major publisher of Python books AND of
Mac books, they should have a good feeling for these markets -- as aimed
to "a niche within a niche", alas).
Alex

[Alex Martelli]

R Baumann <ry**@9yahoo.com> wrote:
...

_after_, as RH says, the 2nd edition of the Cookbook (we're still
targeting March 2004 for that one).

I think you've missed your target date! ;-)

Ooops -- an off-by-one error, I suspect. Make it March 2005...!-)
Alex

[Dennis Lee Bieber]

On Thu, 23 Sep 2004 23:24:16 +0200, al*****@yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
declaimed the following in comp.lang.python:

point it's bursting at the seams (I'm not interested in 1000+ pages
books, and neither is O'Reilly for its Nutshell series). Whether
Tell them it's a Coconut shell <G>

-- ================================================== ============ <
wl*****@ix.netcom.com | Wulfraed Dennis Lee Bieber KD6MOG <
wu******@dm.net | Bestiaria Support Staff <
================================================== ============ <
Home Page: <http://www.dm.net/~wulfraed/> <
Overflow Page: <http://wlfraed.home.netcom.com/> <

[Tuang]

al*****@yahoo.com (Alex Martelli) wrote in message news:<1gkkjme.1larcxs9r607kN%al*****@yahoo.com>...

Raymond Hettinger <vz******@verizon.net> wrote:

[Tuang]

Does anyone (esp. Alex, if you're listening) know if there is an
update of Python in a Nutshell coming for Python 2.4?

I would say let the poor guy finish the Py2.4 Cookbook update first; afterall,
he's only one man. But now there are two Martelli's on the case, so you might
be in luck ;-)

I have not yet negotiated with O'Reilly about a 2nd edition of the
Nutshell, but I do suspect they'll be quite happy letting me write one,
_after_, as RH says, the 2nd edition of the Cookbook (we're still
targeting March 2004 for that one). Considering the times involved etc
etc, I believe it is out of the question for the 2nd edition of the
Nutshell to be in print in time for OSCON 2005 (==July 2005), alas. So,
don't hold your breath: I believe it will be _at least_ a year from now
before you can buy the 2nd edition of the Nutshell in bookstores:-(.

That's too bad, but thanks for the update, Alex. The quality of your
work makes you the right man for too many jobs, it appears. ;-)

BTW, when you said "still targeting Mar 2004" for the Cookbook, were
you joking about the nature of the book publishing industry, or was it
a typo for a real target date of Mar 2005?

[Alex Martelli]

Tuang <tu******@hotmail.com> wrote:
...

That's too bad, but thanks for the update, Alex. The quality of your
You're welcome!
work makes you the right man for too many jobs, it appears. ;-)
Flattery will get you anywhere...
BTW, when you said "still targeting Mar 2004" for the Cookbook, were
you joking about the nature of the book publishing industry, or was it
a typo for a real target date of Mar 2005?

The latter - an off-by-one error!-)
Alex

[Josh Close]

On Thu, 23 Sep 2004 23:24:16 +0200, Alex Martelli <al*****@yahoo.com> wrote:

The hardest part of writing the Nutshell was to decide what to include,
or more precisely, what NOT to include, to make it as useful as possible
within the 600-pages limit (I broke that limit, a bit, but not by much;
it's 635 pages all told, I believe)

[snip]

I was just curious on your reason's behind it is all. Your nutshell
book is actually the only python book I own and I learned how to
program in python using it. I think it's very well written, just
curious why is all. Python.org does have all the modules docs anyone
could want also.

I've been meaning to pick up the cookbook also which I think you wrote
too...... I have a habbit of only buying O'Reilly books. I like their
layouts.

Thanks.

-Josh

[Ron Stephens]

Speaking of platform specific Python books (other than Mark Hammond's
Windows book), what a great idea! There is at least one enthusiastic
customer for a Mac OS X specific Python book (me!).

Ron Stephens

[Alex Martelli]

Ron Stephens <rs*******@vectron.com> wrote:

Speaking of platform specific Python books (other than Mark Hammond's
Windows book), what a great idea! There is at least one enthusiastic
customer for a Mac OS X specific Python book (me!).

Unfortunately, with O'Reilly having rejected it, I'm not sure what other
publisher, if any, is enough "into" Mac _and_ Python. So for now I'm
giving precedence to 2nd editions of Cookbook and Nutshell...!
Alex

[Cousin Stanley]

> Unfortunately, with O'Reilly having rejected it, I'm not sure what other

publisher, if any, is enough "into" Mac _and_ Python. So for now I'm
giving precedence to 2nd editions of Cookbook and Nutshell...!

Alex ....

Maybe you could cut out the middle man, e.g. Cousin O'Reilly,
and consider ....

class AM_Publishing( object ) :

def __init__( self , this_book ) :

self.book = this_book

def xWrite( self ) : pass

def edit( self ) : pass

def xPrint( self ) : pass

def xBind( self ) : pass

def advertise( self ) : pass

def sell( self ) : pass

def distribute( self ) : pass
mac_py = AM_Publishing( 'Mac Python in a NutShell' )
This exercise in *desktop publishing* might be worthy
of a book in itself ....
--
Cousin Stanley
Human Being
Phoenix, Arizona

[Alex Martelli]

Cousin Stanley <co***********@hotmail.com> wrote:

Unfortunately, with O'Reilly having rejected it, I'm not sure what other
publisher, if any, is enough "into" Mac _and_ Python. So for now I'm
giving precedence to 2nd editions of Cookbook and Nutshell...!

Alex ....

Maybe you could cut out the middle man, e.g. Cousin O'Reilly,

... mac_py = AM_Publishing( 'Mac Python in a NutShell' )

This exercise in *desktop publishing* might be worthy
of a book in itself ....

I suspect O'Reilly Media's trademark for "in a Nutshell" in book titles
would put me in trouble. Still, sure, I could go for a different title
and self-publish, if I disagreed with ORM's assessment of the market
chances enough to be willing to risk it. I _am_ considering this
possibility, of course. But it seems a bit far-fetched.
Alex