Oh well. A mailing list is not the most appropriate place for rants (a
blog is better), but it's still better than keeping it for myself.
I'm frustrated. My search for a good IDE to support my activities --
doing development for Python in the Windows environment -- are not
being succesful as I had originally dreamt. I have big constraints on
what can I do now; money is not an option, and my current machine is
still useful but it's below par for more advanced stuff. It's my
fault? Probably. But it's all that I have -- a 500MHz PC with 64MB and
Win98 SE. It has to be Windows, for reasons beyond my control (read
wife and kids :-).
All IDEs I've evaluated so far have shown so far some type of
showstopper. Some of them are fixable (I can do it myself), but it's
not supposed to be like this. Even for open source projects, the least
that one expects is to be able to install and run.
The only partial exception so far is Boa Constructor. Riaan is
responsive, and there is a lot of things implemented. However, it's
far from perfect. It's heavy, takes a long time to load, and has some
debatable UI features -- some may like it, but I think about them as
little more than annoying design inconsistencies.
DrPython has show some promise. However, on my first try I could not
start it -- had to patch the initialization code. My patch is a hack,
so I haven't contributed it back. The problem is simple, just that my
PC just can't handle paths with slashes -- I had to pass backslashes
to all os.* calls. I never had this issue before, so I don't know if
it's my Windows version or Python's libray fault (I assume the
former). I managed to start it yesterday very late at night, but
haven't tried to use it immediately. I tried it again now, and it's
bombing as soon as I ask to open a new file. Can I fix it? Probably.
But that's not the point - I should be delivering code to my
customers.
I also tried Wing IDE Personal. At first it worked fine; it's a little
bit heavy, but... as soon as I try to save some file it bombs, too.
Haven't tried to contact the support, because I had decided that I
could probably find other tool to fit my bill. Now I may need to
reevaluate it once again, but first, it has to start saving files :-|.
Other non-option is eric3 -- mainly because I can't install it, Qt
being commercial for Windows.
The funny thing is that I don't need anything particularly fancy. A
good Python editor, syntax coloring, a few helpers (moving blocks &
stuff). Debugging is good, but it's not what I really miss. Even form
designers -- I could live without them. What I really miss are stuff
that I regard as basic: a tabbed editor window for multiple files, and
a good project manager interface -- a place where I can find all the
files belonging to my projects without having to move around the
directory tree whenever I have to do anything. Could I do it using
only command-line tools? Probably, but it's not comfortable,
convenient or productive. A good IDE would bring me these three things
that I'm longing for.
For now, I'm still having to resort on PythonWin for all my needs.
That's a shame, not because PythonWin isn't good (in fact it's a
fantastic piece of software); but because Python deserves better.
--
Carlos Ribeiro
Consultoria em Projetos
blog: http://rascunhosrotos.blogspot.com
blog: http://pythonnotes.blogspot.com
mail: ca********@gmail.com
mail: ca********@yahoo.com 37  2577 
Alberto,
On Mon, 13 Sep 2004 23:09:44 +0200, Alberto Santini <as@nospam.org> wrote: I suggest you
http://www.scintilla.org/
It's not going to help with my particular problem... because almost
*all* editors that I've tried already use Scintilla through various
different bindings. In fact, Boa, Eric3, PythonWin *and* DrPython all
use it. The only tool that I'm not sure about it is Komodo - but I
wouldn't be surprised if it too used Scintilla as the text editor
widget. I also have downloaded SciTE and a couple other Scintilla
based editors.
The problem here is not with the editor -- is with the supporting
environment. My app is still in the early stages of programming and
already has several different source code files in several
directories. Were I using a tool like Delphi, it would be fairly easy
to keep track of everything. As I said, it's not that I can't do it
otherwise. It's just that I know from my personal experience that a
good tool can save a lot of time and add more convenience to the job.
--
Carlos Ribeiro
Consultoria em Projetos
blog: http://rascunhosrotos.blogspot.com
blog: http://pythonnotes.blogspot.com
mail: ca********@gmail.com
mail: ca********@yahoo.com
Carlos Ribeiro wrote: I'm frustrated. My search for a good IDE to support my activities --
doing development for Python in the Windows environment -- are not
being succesful as I had originally dreamt.
As mentioned, it's rather fully customizable, easy to add a new file type and appropriate extensions
My search for a good IDE ended years ago when I started learning C++,
and found EditPlus, http://www.editplus.com/ -- $30, free 30 day trial
(last I knew.)
*Regex find/replace and grep (called "find in files")
*Match brace
*Custom user tools -- this is what makes it an IDE: For python I only
have 2 tools so far (I'm very new to python), execute "python ~thisfile"
normally, or with editplus capturing the output. But for c++ I have
many, such as "make all", "make debug", execute "~thisproject.exe", "gpp
~thisfile", "gpp *.cpp -o ~thisproject.exe" and from time to time I've
tossed up whatever 3rd party application just to have handy on the toolbars.
*Customize keyboard shortcuts
*record keystrokes for macros
*Syntax highlighting (I guess it only comes with HTML, CSS, PHP, ASP,
Perl, C/C++, Java, JavaScript and VBScript installed, but they certainly
have at least one Python for download, and editing or creating your own
is simple enough) (Well -- I just looked, the have many syntax types,
Oracle, Pascal, Dephi, MySQL, XHTML, DHTML, Perl, Perlscript,
ColdFusion, Lua, C#, mIRC, OpenGL, Apache, FORTRAN, Latex, VisualLisp,
Tcl/Tk -- and hell, it's gonna take me forever to get down this list,
and those were the few names I've heard of. This large list does
suggest alot of people are using editplus.
*Autocompletion, for command or function structures (which I don't use)
*Cliptext (I do like have the handy list of ascii/ansi symbols for when
I forget that '_'==chr(95), or if I just want to click an drag a the
copyright symbol someplace, even into another app: ©
And for HTML (which is, I suppose, It's specialty) -- it has a seamless
IE, or launch whatever browser, and FTP capabilites.
But it's more impressive just for it's text editing capabilites:
*Column selection! (and column fill)
*Line indenting! Need to indent (or dedent) those 20 lines of code?
select, then ctrl-i or ctrl-shft-i !
*you can use tabs, or you can use spaces via the tab key, setting tab
width is easy.
*even allows virtual space
*toggleable ruler, line numbers
*spellchecker
*4 ways to change case: all upper, all lower, reverse, or captilize
first left of everyword.
*unix and pc fileformat.
*auto-backup option
*an intresting "autosave" feature, optional for your user tools. For
example, I click my tool, and python tells me I have an error, I fix
that, and click my tool again to view the new results. I didn't have to
save manually, since that's how I have that tool set.
*and of course, choose your favorite fonts.
*I just realized it does e-mail, I haven't tried that yet.
-- most setting are independant based on filetype, perhaps you use TAB
for 4 spaces in .py, but you use TAB for a 5-space tab-char in .txt --
no problem.
Best of all, it's quick and light. Even wordpad seems to slowdown my
comp more than editplus. It does have a very nice finished feel, and,
believe it or not, it reminds me more of notepad than any other program.
I use win98, it's keep me happy for years. They do practice good
customer support.
Good luck,
Rob
--I mean, If I had "column select" before now, I wouldn't have killed
anybody.
I don't know if Komodo uses Scintilla as the editor or not. Komodo is
primarily based on Mozilla. It does have tabbed windows for editing
and the ability to organize your files in projects. They have a 30-day
trial version if you want to try it out.
On Mon, 13 Sep 2004 19:36:59 -0300, Carlos Ribeiro <ca********@gmail.com> wrote: Alberto,
On Mon, 13 Sep 2004 23:09:44 +0200, Alberto Santini <as@nospam.org> wrote: I suggest you
http://www.scintilla.org/
It's not going to help with my particular problem... because almost
*all* editors that I've tried already use Scintilla through various
different bindings. In fact, Boa, Eric3, PythonWin *and* DrPython all
use it. The only tool that I'm not sure about it is Komodo - but I
wouldn't be surprised if it too used Scintilla as the text editor
widget. I also have downloaded SciTE and a couple other Scintilla
based editors.
The problem here is not with the editor -- is with the supporting
environment. My app is still in the early stages of programming and
already has several different source code files in several
directories. Were I using a tool like Delphi, it would be fairly easy
to keep track of everything. As I said, it's not that I can't do it
otherwise. It's just that I know from my personal experience that a
good tool can save a lot of time and add more convenience to the job.
--
Carlos Ribeiro
Consultoria em Projetos
blog: http://rascunhosrotos.blogspot.com
blog: http://pythonnotes.blogspot.com
mail: ca********@gmail.com
mail: ca********@yahoo.com
--
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Carlos Ribeiro wrote: Oh well. A mailing list is not the most appropriate place for rants (a
blog is better), but it's still better than keeping it for myself.
[snip]
I spent quite a bit of time evaluating Python IDE's a few months back
and I agree with you. The only one I liked was WingIDE 2 but none of
them were able to tempt me away from Emacs. In particular I am using the
emacs code browser with Python ( http://ecb.sourceforge.net). I think it
may well do what you want although it does take a little setting up and
if you don't know Emacs you have that hill to climb.
I just did a screen shot from some python source code I am working on
for a Plone project. (click on the image to fullsize it). http://photos.zobbo.org/album04/python_ecb
Note the left hand panels which are giving links to files in the current
directory, recently opened files, directory paths and a class browser
for the current source file. With my setup if (for example) I <Alt>-. on
the word StringWidget in my Case.py source file I'll automatically open
up the class definition in the window next to it.
Using emacs python mode I get syntax hilighting, easy methods of moving
code around and the ability to set tracepoints using pdb and display the
pdb buffer next to the source code you are debugging. As you work your
way through the code, the source buffer will track what you are looking
at simultaneously.
Another benefit is I can run the same IDE on both Windows, Linux and OS
X and (importantly for me) can run the same environment over a ssh
terminal if I am developing on a remote machine. The screenshot is from
XP by the way. I also use the Emacs ELSE mode to make templating easier.
if you use xemacs you can have tabbing for the openfiles although I
personally I don't like that setup.
Not saying this solution is for everyone and it isn't perfect but it's
the best I've found so far for me.
Ian
Komodo *does* use Scintilla.
M. Bitner wrote: I don't know if Komodo uses Scintilla as the editor or not. Komodo is
primarily based on Mozilla. It does have tabbed windows for editing
and the ability to organize your files in projects. They have a 30-day
trial version if you want to try it out.
--
--------------------------------------------------------------------
Aaron Bingham
Application Developer
Cenix BioScience GmbH
--------------------------------------------------------------------
"Carlos Ribeiro" <ca********@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:ma**************************************@pyth on.org... The only partial exception so far is Boa Constructor. Riaan is
responsive, and there is a lot of things implemented. However, it's
far from perfect. It's heavy, takes a long time to load ...
That's because your PC suck!
On top of that, Windows 98 SE sucks even more, being possibly the worst
aggregation of misfeatures to be built ontop of the already shaky dos-based
Windows lineage!!
The real problem is that nobody is likely to help you much because the
developers themselves have moved on to bigger and better platforms;
Clever IDE's *need* ample memory and CPU to draw all the pretty pictures and
generate all that code on-the-fly, the developers usually have all that in
abundance, so it is not likely that anyone designing IDE's will really
*care* enough to do any testing on Win 98 in a memory starved environment!!
I would bite it and Upgrade:
Windows XP is a decent enough OS, IMO, and a bottom-of-the-range PC - which
is a 1 GHz Athlon with 256 MB RAM, Geforce 2 graphics and 40 GB HDD - can
often be had at less than USD 200. An entirely different stratosfere, from
what you are used to - and I bet some of the stability problems with many of
the IDEs' will disappear too.
Rob McCrea wrote: Carlos Ribeiro wrote:
I'm frustrated. My search for a good IDE to support my activities --
doing development for Python in the Windows environment -- are not
being succesful as I had originally dreamt.
> As mentioned, it's rather fully customizable, easy to add a new file > > type and appropriate extensions
My search for a good IDE ended years ago when I started learning C++,
and found EditPlus, http://www.editplus.com/ -- $30, free 30 day trial
(last I knew.)
It *has* to be mentioned, of course, that Vim ( http://www.vim.org) has
nearly every feature mentioned about EditPlus and all the other IDEs,
including syntax highlighting (for Python, even!:), column selection
(and block selection, and line selection), regex, match brace, etc.
Running on Cygwin you have easy access to grep, make, and all other
nifty *nix development tools. But failing that, there's a Windows grep
( http://www.wingrep.com/) and a host of other ported utilities
( http://jrfonseca.dyndns.org/projects...ftware/ported/, for
example).
Best of all, Vim is free (well, it's "charityware") and /very/ stable. I
can honestly say that in 10 years I have *never* had Vim crash on me. As
rumoured, it does take a little getting used to, but the rewards are
worth it.
No, I'm not trying to start yet another editor war! I'm just pointing to
a useful tool that often gets overlooked in this GUI world of ours. But
then, there's always Gvim...
Dan
Carlos Ribeiro <ca********@gmail.com> wrote:
... fault? Probably. But it's all that I have -- a 500MHz PC with 64MB and
Win98 SE. It has to be Windows, for reasons beyond my control (read
... PC just can't handle paths with slashes -- I had to pass backslashes
to all os.* calls. I never had this issue before, so I don't know if
it's my Windows version or Python's libray fault (I assume the
I wonder if it's connected to using some specific internationalized
version of Win98 SE, because, using US and Italian versions thereof, I
had no problems whatsoever with this issue. I don't know if you can try
installing a US or other plain vanilla version of Win98 SE to see if
that changes things -- me, I definitely don't have a (?Brazilian? not
sure what you might be using...) version around to try the other way.
former). I managed to start it yesterday very late at night, but
haven't tried to use it immediately. I tried it again now, and it's
bombing as soon as I ask to open a new file. Can I fix it? Probably.
But that's not the point - I should be delivering code to my
customers.
Sure, but if Win98 SE _does_ have specific problems with (e.g.) the
Brazilian version, that don't show up in the US, France, Italy, Germany,
and so on -- just a hypothesis, but I can't think of what else it might
be -- how do you expect those problems to be found, much less
worked-around, until and unless somebody using that specific buggy
version tries doing normal things (such as passing / instead of \ as
part of filenames) and they start blowing up?
If you can reproduce specific problems with slashes vs backslashes on
one vs another version of Windows and a good recent Python, opening a
bug report may (if somebody who's doing bug-fixing has the buggy version
of Windows around) produce workarounds for the next release of Python.
You sure can't hope for workarounds or fixes from Microsoft, who does
not even support your version of Windows any more, I believe.
Alex
In article <ma**************************************@python.o rg>, Carlos
Ribeiro wrote: The funny thing is that I don't need anything particularly fancy. A
good Python editor, syntax coloring, a few helpers (moving blocks &
stuff). Debugging is good, but it's not what I really miss. Even form
designers -- I could live without them. What I really miss are stuff
that I regard as basic: a tabbed editor window for multiple files, and
a good project manager interface -- a place where I can find all the
files belonging to my projects without having to move around the
directory tree whenever I have to do anything. Could I do it using
only command-line tools? Probably, but it's not comfortable,
convenient or productive. A good IDE would bring me these three things
that I'm longing for.
XEmacs has tabbed editing (maybe GNU Emacs does now, too? ctrl-click does
bring up a buffer menu.) The standard emacs package recent_files is useful
for keeping track of projects. And these days the emacsen are lightweight
compared to many other environments. It's a great environment for python
development. http://www.xemacs.org/Download/win32/
Dave Cook
Alex,
On Tue, 14 Sep 2004 13:43:46 +0200, Alex Martelli <al*****@yahoo.com> wrote: Carlos Ribeiro <ca********@gmail.com> wrote: PC just can't handle paths with slashes -- I had to pass backslashes
to all os.* calls. I never had this issue before, so I don't know if
it's my Windows version or Python's libray fault (I assume the
I wonder if it's connected to using some specific internationalized
version of Win98 SE, because, using US and Italian versions thereof, I
had no problems whatsoever with this issue.
You're right. I *never* had this issue before. I'm sure that there's a
bug somewhere -- mainly because changing the slashes in DrPython code
to double-backslashes solved my problem -- but I'm still trying to
figure it out. I'm using Python 2.3.2 (not the latest and greatest
version, I know), because I'm normally very conservative with my
development tools. I'll try to reproduce it and post it to the list.
--
Carlos Ribeiro
Consultoria em Projetos
blog: http://rascunhosrotos.blogspot.com
blog: http://pythonnotes.blogspot.com
mail: ca********@gmail.com
mail: ca********@yahoo.com
On Mon, 13 Sep 2004 18:45:45 -0400, Rob McCrea
<ro*******@spaamadelphiaspremoveam.net> wrote: My search for a good IDE ended years ago when I started learning C++,
and found EditPlus, http://www.editplus.com/ -- $30, free 30 day trial
(last I knew.)
Thanks for the pointer. Actually, Scintilla is great as far as the
editing capabilities are concerned -- including column select, which
is just a matter of holding ALT while dragging the mouse. You can try
it on PythonWin, it works, as in all . User tools are another matter;
for example, DrPython does support them, but I'm still trying to
figure out the situation with my slashes vs. backslashes.
Reading your feature list, it seems to be missing project management,
or to put it simply, to be able to track down what files are part of
the project without the need to actually walk around the directory
tree to hunt them down. I'll check it out, nonetheless.
--
Carlos Ribeiro
Consultoria em Projetos
blog: http://rascunhosrotos.blogspot.com
blog: http://pythonnotes.blogspot.com
mail: ca********@gmail.com
mail: ca********@yahoo.com
Alex,
Regarding the slash-backslash problem... I found the bug, it was not
hard, after all.
The problem was a side effect of the way DrPython builds some of its
environment variables, and the handling of double slashes in file
names.
At startup DrPython tries to detect the homedir. The code tries some
alternatives; if the envvars or the tilde options are not available,
and if the program is running under Win32, then it starts with "c:\".
A little bit later, it adds new path components to the path. Guess
what happens? The home dir becomes: "c:\\drpython"...
....but double slashes are invalid at that particular position. It
seems to be a side effect of the way network shares are named, of
course, although I fail to see why it should cause a problem in this
particular example. It's no problem if additional slashes are located
elsewhere into the middle of the path name.
I've fixed it and I'll send the fix to the DrPython guys. In fact, it
solved *all* issues I had with DrPython, including some strange
lockups that would last for minutes.
--
Carlos Ribeiro
Consultoria em Projetos
blog: http://rascunhosrotos.blogspot.com
blog: http://pythonnotes.blogspot.com
mail: ca********@gmail.com
mail: ca********@yahoo.com
Carlos Ribeiro wrote: On Mon, 13 Sep 2004 18:45:45 -0400, Rob McCrea
My search for a good IDE ended years ago when I started learning C++,
and found EditPlus, http://www.editplus.com/ -- $30, free 30 day trial
Reading your feature list, it seems to be missing project management,
or to put it simply, to be able to track down what files are part of
the project without the need to actually walk around the directory
tree to hunt them down. I'll check it out, nonetheless.
It does have project management. EditPlus is my favorite editor
and every time I try another IDE I find the EditPlus does some things
so much better that I'll go back to it.
Istvan
Carlos Ribeiro <ca********@gmail.com> writes: Oh well. A mailing list is not the most appropriate place for rants (a
blog is better), but it's still better than keeping it for myself.
I'm frustrated. My search for a good IDE to support my activities --
doing development for Python in the Windows environment -- are not
being succesful as I had originally dreamt. I have big constraints on
what can I do now; money is not an option, and my current machine is
still useful but it's below par for more advanced stuff. It's my
fault? Probably. But it's all that I have -- a 500MHz PC with 64MB and
Win98 SE. It has to be Windows, for reasons beyond my control (read
wife and kids :-).
If you work on Windows, you should really, really, really upgrade to
win2k, at least - even if it costs some performance on your machine.
You can even *use* the 'dos-box' then ;-).
Thomas
Istvan Albert wrote: Carlos Ribeiro wrote:
On Mon, 13 Sep 2004 18:45:45 -0400, Rob McCrea
My search for a good IDE ended years ago when I started learning C++,
and found EditPlus, http://www.editplus.com/ -- $30, free 30 day trial
Reading your feature list, it seems to be missing project management,
or to put it simply, to be able to track down what files are part of
the project without the need to actually walk around the directory
tree to hunt them down. I'll check it out, nonetheless.
It does have project management. EditPlus is my favorite editor
and every time I try another IDE I find the EditPlus does some things
so much better that I'll go back to it.
Istvan
Yep, I did try to infer the project management when I mentioned I had a
tool for [execute "~thisproject.exe"], but my message certainly wasn
t well-composed :)
And Carlos, I am very curious about why you took the time to "de-spam"
my e-mail address when you sent the message to the group anyway. But,
no need to satisfy my curiousity :)
Hope you do find something which is right for you, which should be a key
point. To each his own.
Rob
Thomas Heller wrote: Carlos Ribeiro <ca********@gmail.com> writes:I'm frustrated. My search for a good IDE to support my activities --
If you work on Windows, you should really, really, really upgrade to
win2k, at least - even if it costs some performance on your machine.
You can even *use* the 'dos-box' then ;-).
Thomas
In my not-at-all-humble-but-very-honest opinion, that's the worst
suggestion I've heard in this topic.
Rob
Rob McCrea <sp**********************@adelphia.net> writes: Thomas Heller wrote:
Carlos Ribeiro <ca********@gmail.com> writes:I'm frustrated. My search for a good IDE to support my activities --
If you work on Windows, you should really, really, really upgrade to
win2k, at least - even if it costs some performance on your machine.
You can even *use* the 'dos-box' then ;-).
Thomas
In my not-at-all-humble-but-very-honest opinion, that's the worst
suggestion I've heard in this topic.
Care to explain?
Thomas
Rob McCrea wrote: Thomas Heller wrote: If you work on Windows, you should really, really, really upgrade to
win2k, at least - even if it costs some performance on your machine.
You can even *use* the 'dos-box' then ;-).
In my not-at-all-humble-but-very-honest opinion, that's the worst
suggestion I've heard in this topic.
As Thomas is, I'm very curious why you would say that. And
I wonder if you would say that if you replaced 2K with XP,
or whether you are just against anyone switching from 98
to something better *if they have to work with Windows*
as Thomas clearly qualified the point.
For the record, switching from 98 to XP has been an incredibly
helpful upgrade in my own case, and I can't think why you
would make the comment you made.
-Peter
Peter Hansen wrote: Rob McCrea wrote:
Thomas Heller wrote:
If you work on Windows, you should really, really, really upgrade to
win2k, at least - even if it costs some performance on your machine.
You can even *use* the 'dos-box' then ;-).
In my not-at-all-humble-but-very-honest opinion, that's the worst
suggestion I've heard in this topic.
As Thomas is, I'm very curious why you would say that. And
I wonder if you would say that if you replaced 2K with XP,
or whether you are just against anyone switching from 98
to something better *if they have to work with Windows*
as Thomas clearly qualified the point.
For the record, switching from 98 to XP has been an incredibly
helpful upgrade in my own case, and I can't think why you
would make the comment you made.
-Peter
If moving to anything after win98se, I would (of course?) suggest XP,
but certainly not for a 500mHz with 64MB RAM. "if it costs some
performance" is a huge understatement. And I just hate the allusion of
the console window to anything close to DOS, which I can assume was not
intended and Thomas even tried to avoid.
My reply was biased and not at all "scientific", as I hoped my "opinion"
line would indicate. Maybe my personal summary is that there are only
two Windows operating systems, 98SE and XPPro; all the others have been
surpassed, IMHO. And let's make no mistake, XP did also (finally)
surpass 98, at a huge (yet affordable and worthwhile) cost to system
resources. -- But 98 is a still a practically needed link between
Windows and DOS.
So you're rather astute, Peter. If he had said XP, and didn't mention
"performance" since XP would almost mandate a more-than-modest system
upgrade, and lastly did not mention the term "dos-box" (even if said
facetiously in regards to that certain perspective of mine), I can't
imagine I would have tossed out my two cent.
I suppose I should mention that no disrespect at all was intended
towards Thomas' sound intention, though I found the given implementation
to be "really, really, really" unsatisfactory.
Rock on, peace,
Rob
Rob McCrea wrote: Peter Hansen wrote: As Thomas is, I'm very curious why you would say that.
If moving to anything after win98se, I would (of course?) suggest XP,
but certainly not for a 500mHz with 64MB RAM. "if it costs some
performance" is a huge understatement.
Granted. :-)
Maybe my personal summary is that there are only
two Windows operating systems, 98SE and XPPro; all the others have been
surpassed, IMHO.
Agreed there too. (And while I said XP, I did mean XP Pro.)
and lastly did not mention the term "dos-box" (even if said
facetiously in regards to that certain perspective of mine), I can't
imagine I would have tossed out my two cent.
I happen to spend a lot of time at the "DOS" console (actually,
I suppose it's whatever cmd.exe is, not command.com, but for
purposes of this post the differences are largely irrelevant)
and don't find it particular limited. That's almost entirely,
however, because I've learned to depend very little on the tools
that I use, for a number of reasons.
I now work almost exclusively with Scite, Subversion (via
TortoiseSVN), and the console, and I'm at least as productive as
I ever was with a large array of much fancier tools at my
fingertips. But my approach to development is rather different
from that used by those who would prefer a fancy IDE, and as to that:
to each his own. :-)
Cheers,
-Peter
Frithiof Andreas Jensen wrote: I would bite it and Upgrade:
Windows XP is a decent enough OS, IMO, and a bottom-of-the-range PC - which
is a 1 GHz Athlon with 256 MB RAM, Geforce 2 graphics and 40 GB HDD - can
often be had at less than USD 200. An entirely different stratosfere, from
what you are used to - and I bet some of the stability problems with many of
the IDEs' will disappear too.
One needs a high-end PC to edit code now?
--
Hans Nowak (ha**@zephyrfalcon.org) http://zephyrfalcon.org/
On Mon, 13 Sep 2004 18:45:45 -0400, Rob McCrea My search for a good IDE ended years ago when I started learning
C++, and found EditPlus, http://www.editplus.com/ -- $30, free
30 day trial
Reading your feature list, it seems to be missing project management,
or to put it simply, to be able to track down what files are part of
the project without the need to actually walk around the directory
tree to hunt them down. I'll check it out, nonetheless.
Take a look at the Zeus for Windows programmers editor: http://www.zeusedit.com/lookmain.html
Zeus has a full project/workspace manager and supports Python, C/C++
and almost any other programming language.
Some of the other programming features include:
+ Code completion and intellisensing
+ Integrated class browser
+ Fully configurable syntax highlighting
+ Seamless FTP editing
+ Integrated version control using the Microsoft Source Code
Control (SCC) interface, including CVS integration.
+ Quick Help context sensitive help engine
+ Fully scriptable using Python
Jussi Jumppanen http://www.zeusedit.com
Rob McCrea wrote: Thomas Heller wrote:
Carlos Ribeiro <ca********@gmail.com> writes:
I'm frustrated. My search for a good IDE to support my activities --
<snip>
Hello,
This is just a small suggestion but one tool that you could
look at is jedit ( http://www.jedit.org) - it often gets overlooked
because as it's written in java python people sometimes think it for
Jython only - not true my erstwhile friends! It has a python plug-in
and can do highlighting, project management, feed the dog and more. It
doesn't have a GUI designer but I understand you don't need that?
Another IDE I use is Eclipse, I only use this for Java editing but I
heard somewhere that it has a Python plugin - eclipse is way more
complicated than jedit but if you learn how to use it there are
significant productivity gains (at least with Java!).
Cheers,
Neil
--
Neil Benn
Senior Automation Engineer
Cenix BioScience
BioInnovations Zentrum
Tatzberg 47
D-01307
Dresden
Germany
Tel : +49 (0)351 4173 154
e-mail : be**@cenix-bioscience.com
Cenix Website : http://www.cenix-bioscience.com
Daniel Ellison <da****@syrinx.net> wrote: It *has* to be mentioned, of course, that Vim (http://www.vim.org) has
nearly every feature mentioned about EditPlus and all the other IDEs,
Except, no tabbed interface when editing multiple files (not even with
GVIM: just ONE window, as seen from the OS/GUI level, even though vim
can partition it). Vim is my favourite editor, but the lack of tabbed
interface _is_ a pity.
Alex
"Hans Nowak" <ha**@zephyrfalcon.org> wrote in message
news:W8*****************@fe39.usenetserver.com... One needs a high-end PC to edit code now?
Specify "code" - and "high end"; otherwise you do not say much!
Depends;
If, f.ex. - for reasons of corporate culture and productivity - one has to
run Rational Rose RT with C++, the *biggest* box you can possibly lay your
clammy hands on *now* is just about underspec'ed!!!
If plain "Idle" is the tool you prefer, I could get my old Slackware 486/66
with 4 MB RAM down from the loft for you!
I've used pydev and liked it. However, according to the author (the last
time I checked the site), the debugger is still in alpha and needs some
work.
In article <ma**************************************@python.o rg>, be**@cenix-bioscience.com says...
Another IDE I use is Eclipse, I only use this for Java editing but I
heard somewhere that it has a Python plugin - eclipse is way more
complicated than jedit but if you learn how to use it there are
significant productivity gains (at least with Java!).
Cheers,
Neil
Frithiof Andreas Jensen wrote: "Hans Nowak" <ha**@zephyrfalcon.org> wrote in message
If plain "Idle" is the tool you prefer, I could get my old Slackware 486/66
with 4 MB RAM down from the loft for you!
No, IDLE is too heavy and intrusive. As I said, I like Editplus.
I did just double check.
Rob
Neil Benn schreef: This is just a small suggestion but one tool that you could
look at is jedit (http://www.jedit.org)
64 MiB RAM for Windows + JVM + JEdit + Python console + browser + ... ?
--
JanC
"Be strict when sending and tolerant when receiving."
RFC 1958 - Architectural Principles of the Internet - section 3.9
Alex Martelli wrote: Daniel Ellison <da****@syrinx.net> wrote:
It *has* to be mentioned, of course, that Vim (http://www.vim.org) has
nearly every feature mentioned about EditPlus and all the other IDEs,
Except, no tabbed interface when editing multiple files (not even with
GVIM: just ONE window, as seen from the OS/GUI level, even though vim
can partition it). Vim is my favourite editor, but the lack of tabbed
interface _is_ a pity.
Alex
Ah, but that partitioning, or splitting windows, is a viable alternative
to tabs. Once one gets used to it, splitting and moving from window to
window is done without thought. No, it's not convenient to have a dozen
files visible at the same time (I rarely have five visible
concurrently), but every file you've opened and closed in a session is
still available without having to retrieve it from the file system again.
The only thing Vim doesn't have is project management. But I do believe
there are Vim scripts that can handle this function to a certain extent.
Anyway, I'm not here to convert anyone. I just know that every time I've
tried to move to another editor I always end up back at Vim.
Dan
Daniel Ellison <da****@syrinx.net> wrote:
... Except, no tabbed interface when editing multiple files (not even with
GVIM: just ONE window, as seen from the OS/GUI level, even though vim
can partition it). Vim is my favourite editor, but the lack of tabbed
interface _is_ a pity.
... Ah, but that partitioning, or splitting windows, is a viable alternative
to tabs. Once one gets used to it, splitting and moving from window to
window is done without thought. No, it's not convenient to have a dozen
I've used VIM since day one (and vi before then) and yet I consider its
"partitioning or splitting window" a substantial productivity loss
compared to tabbed editors. Not a matter of getting used to it, just
ergonomically inferior.
The only thing Vim doesn't have is project management. But I do believe
there are Vim scripts that can handle this function to a certain extent.
That one I don't miss in the least.
Anyway, I'm not here to convert anyone. I just know that every time I've
tried to move to another editor I always end up back at Vim.
Me too, but that's part of why I grouse so badly about the few things
Vim doesn't do _right_. When I'm dialed in, no GUI, slow line, and have
to use vim without the G, sure, kludges like window splitting are better
than nothing. But mostly I'm on a GUI, with gvim, and the lack of
tabbed editing just sucks. Next time I have some spare time (that will
be the day) I'll give emacs+its vi emulations another try, I think.
Most likely I'll come back to Vim and start grousing again, tho...;-)
Alex
Alex Martelli wrote: Except, no tabbed interface when editing multiple files (not even with
GVIM: just ONE window, as seen from the OS/GUI level, even though vim
can partition it). Vim is my favourite editor, but the lack of tabbed
interface _is_ a pity.
Me too, but that's part of why I grouse so badly about the few things
Vim doesn't do _right_. When I'm dialed in, no GUI, slow line, and have
to use vim without the G, sure, kludges like window splitting are better
than nothing. But mostly I'm on a GUI, with gvim, and the lack of
tabbed editing just sucks. Next time I have some spare time (that will
be the day) I'll give emacs+its vi emulations another try, I think.
Most likely I'll come back to Vim and start grousing again, tho...;-)
To each his own, but in my experience with :bn, :bp, CTRL-6 and :buf +
tab completion, vim works about as well as tabbed editing. Requires more
commands to know then a GUI, but that's not a problem for vim-lovers.
--
"Codito ergo sum"
Roel Schroeven
On Thu, 16 Sep 2004 14:16:22 +0200, Alex Martelli <al*****@yahoo.com>
wrote: Daniel Ellison <da****@syrinx.net> wrote:
... > Except, no tabbed interface when editing multiple files (not even with
> GVIM: just ONE window, as seen from the OS/GUI level, even though vim
> can partition it). Vim is my favourite editor, but the lack of tabbed
> interface _is_ a pity. ... Ah, but that partitioning, or splitting windows, is a viable alternative
to tabs. Once one gets used to it, splitting and moving from window to
window is done without thought. No, it's not convenient to have a dozen
I've used VIM since day one (and vi before then) and yet I consider its
"partitioning or splitting window" a substantial productivity loss
compared to tabbed editors. Not a matter of getting used to it, just
ergonomically inferior.
But mostly I'm on a GUI, with gvim, and the lack of
tabbed editing just sucks. Next time I have some spare time (that will
be the day) I'll give emacs+its vi emulations another try, I think.
Most likely I'll come back to Vim and start grousing again, tho...;-)
Alex
Alex
I initially had the same irritation, but:
I mapped (for example) keys F3 and F4 in ViM to switch between buffers
like so:
<inside .vimrc>
" Putting '!' after 'map' causes it to work regardless of current mode.
map! F3 <ESC>:bn!<CR>
map! F4 <ESC>:bp!<CR>
<fin>
Accessing multiple buffers has become a non-issue for me. In fact, I now
*prefer* this to tabbed editing. This, coupled with global marks (A-Z)
makes editing multiple files real easy.
If you really do want a list of buffers in gvim, the 'buffers' menu does
tear off...
I do hate window splitting though - the loss of screen real-estate is too
painful.
Thanks
Caleb
Carlos Ribeiro wrote: Oh well. A mailing list is not the most appropriate place for rants
(a blog is better), but it's still better than keeping it for myself.
I'm frustrated. My search for a good IDE to support my activities --
doing development for Python in the Windows environment -- are not
being succesful as I had originally dreamt. I have big constraints on
what can I do now; money is not an option, and my current machine is
still useful but it's below par for more advanced stuff. It's my
fault? Probably. But it's all that I have -- a 500MHz PC with 64MB
and Win98 SE. It has to be Windows, for reasons beyond my control (read
wife and kids :-).
Look at http://www.pspad.com/en/index.html.
Very good and smart editor for Python and other languages.
You even can set menu for brazillian portuguese! And it's free...
"A dica vem com um certo atrazo, mas espero que seja util".
"AkioIto" <it*****@yahoo.co.jp> writes: Look at http://www.pspad.com/en/index.html.
Thanks for the tip, looks perfect for the flash memory toolkit, since
it can just run from the directory it was unpacked into.
Nick
--
# sigmask || 0.2 || 20030107 || public domain || feed this to a python
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