Dynamic languages

[Neuruss]

I've been reading an article published in E-Week entitled "Microsoft
Lures Open-Source Programmer", which contains a definition for dynamic
languages as follows:

"Dynamic programming languages enable programs to change their
structure as they run."

I wonder if this definition is correct.
Can we define dynamic languages this way?

http://www.eweek.com/article2/0,1759,1636906,00.asp

[Tom B.]

"Neuruss" <lu****@gmx.net> wrote in message
news:27*************************@posting.google.co m...

I've been reading an article published in E-Week entitled "Microsoft
Lures Open-Source Programmer", which contains a definition for dynamic
languages as follows:

"Dynamic programming languages enable programs to change their
structure as they run."

I wonder if this definition is correct.
Can we define dynamic languages this way?

http://www.eweek.com/article2/0,1759,1636906,00.asp

I doubt that this is what they mean but a dynamic language is a language
that is still evolving (Python) as opposed to a dead language (COBOL).

They probably are referring to programs that can add and remove components
during runtime.

Tom

[Marcel van den Dungen]

"Tom B." <sb******@commspeed.net> wrote in message news:<10***************@news.commspeed.net>...

I doubt that this is what they mean but a dynamic language is a language
that is still evolving (Python) as opposed to a dead language (COBOL).

They probably are referring to programs that can add and remove components
during runtime.

Dynamic refers to the typing of variables. In Python variables get a
type dynamically when assigned a value.
See also: http://www.artima.com/weblogs/viewpost.jsp?thread=4639
and several blog posting of Bruce Eckel on this subject:
http://www.mindview.net/WebLog/

Marcel.

[Tom B.]

"Marcel van den Dungen" <m_********@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:98*************************@posting.google.co m...

"Tom B." <sb******@commspeed.net> wrote in message

news:<10***************@news.commspeed.net>...

I doubt that this is what they mean but a dynamic language is a language
that is still evolving (Python) as opposed to a dead language (COBOL).

They probably are referring to programs that can add and remove components during runtime.

Dynamic refers to the typing of variables. In Python variables get a
type dynamically when assigned a value.
See also: http://www.artima.com/weblogs/viewpost.jsp?thread=4639
and several blog posting of Bruce Eckel on this subject:
http://www.mindview.net/WebLog/

Marcel.

Those languages are called dynamically typed languages, this implies that
there is a statically typed language, which there is.
All languages are dynamic, this slang is bad computer science. There is no
such thing as a static computer language.

Tom

[Reid Nichol]

Tom B. wrote:

I doubt that this is what they mean but a dynamic language is a language
that is still evolving (Python) as opposed to a dead language (COBOL).

During my "education" at my school of unfortunate choice I had to learn
the script of the damned... sorry, COBOL. I learned that it has indeed
gone through some developments in the past years ie COBOL now is object
oriented COBOL.

It *should* be dead though, but companies don't want to develope any new
systems. So, they fund a programming program at some local college at
"suggest" that they include it so that they have a work force availible
to make changes to there system.

That of course doesn't mean that this certain company's COBOL programmer
lasts on average < 6 months. Which certainly is the case. Quite
frankly I don't know how they last so long.

[Tom B.]

"Reid Nichol" <rn*********@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:rc******************@news1.mts.net...

Tom B. wrote:

I doubt that this is what they mean but a dynamic language is a language
that is still evolving (Python) as opposed to a dead language (COBOL).

During my "education" at my school of unfortunate choice I had to learn
the script of the damned... sorry, COBOL. I learned that it has indeed
gone through some developments in the past years ie COBOL now is object
oriented COBOL.

It *should* be dead though, but companies don't want to develope any new
systems. So, they fund a programming program at some local college at
"suggest" that they include it so that they have a work force availible
to make changes to there system.

That of course doesn't mean that this certain company's COBOL programmer
lasts on average < 6 months. Which certainly is the case. Quite
frankly I don't know how they last so long.

I figured that I wouldn't be able to find any truly dead computer
language. I met a technician at U of Minnesota Physics department who
collected PDP11's and programmed only in fourth. When I asked him why he
replied, 'If I don't do it who will'.

Tom

[Chris S.]

Marcel van den Dungen wrote:

"Tom B." <sb******@commspeed.net> wrote in message news:<10***************@news.commspeed.net>...

I doubt that this is what they mean but a dynamic language is a language
that is still evolving (Python) as opposed to a dead language (COBOL).

They probably are referring to programs that can add and remove components
during runtime.

Dynamic refers to the typing of variables. In Python variables get a
type dynamically when assigned a value.
See also: http://www.artima.com/weblogs/viewpost.jsp?thread=4639
and several blog posting of Bruce Eckel on this subject:
http://www.mindview.net/WebLog/

Personally, I think the definition can go a little further. In Python,
if you were so inclined, you could generate completely new functionality
through the use of exec and eval statements. This dynamic generation,
just not addition, of functionality at runtime I think is an important
aspect of dynamic languages.

[Chris S.]

Tom B. wrote:

"Marcel van den Dungen" <m_********@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:98*************************@posting.google.co m...

"Tom B." <sb******@commspeed.net> wrote in message

news:<10***************@news.commspeed.net>...

I doubt that this is what they mean but a dynamic language is a language
that is still evolving (Python) as opposed to a dead language (COBOL).

They probably are referring to programs that can add and remove
components
during runtime.

Dynamic refers to the typing of variables. In Python variables get a
type dynamically when assigned a value.
See also: http://www.artima.com/weblogs/viewpost.jsp?thread=4639
and several blog posting of Bruce Eckel on this subject:
http://www.mindview.net/WebLog/

Marcel.

Those languages are called dynamically typed languages, this implies that
there is a statically typed language, which there is.
All languages are dynamic, this slang is bad computer science. There is no
such thing as a static computer language.

I respectively disagree. The difference between static and dynamic is an
important one. There are things I can do in Python that are synatically
impossible in C or C++ simply due to their absence of a native eval().

[Donn Cave]

Quoth m_********@yahoo.com (Marcel van den Dungen):
....
| Dynamic refers to the typing of variables. In Python variables get a
| type dynamically when assigned a value.
| See also: http://www.artima.com/weblogs/viewpost.jsp?thread=4639
| and several blog posting of Bruce Eckel on this subject:
| http://www.mindview.net/WebLog/

I imagine they may actually have been looking at some version of
this: http://www.fact-index.com/d/dy/dynam..._language.html
which goes beyond static vs. dynamic typing in the sense they
ordinarily seem to be used. I'm not sure they really put their
finger on the main problem in the way of a Python compiler, but
whatever.

Donn Cave, do**@drizzle.com

[Tom B.]

I was actually trying to make a point about semantics in that the terms
'dynamic' and 'static' are too generic. In computer science it is the custom
(but not always) to name a process as accurately as possible and use
acronyms. This way a Dynamically Typed Language becomes DTL and a
Dynamically Run Language becomes DRL, insuring that Python remains superior
in more way than one.

Tom

[Steve Holden]

Neuruss wrote:

I've been reading an article published in E-Week entitled "Microsoft
Lures Open-Source Programmer", which contains a definition for dynamic
languages as follows:

"Dynamic programming languages enable programs to change their
structure as they run."

I wonder if this definition is correct.
Can we define dynamic languages this way?

http://www.eweek.com/article2/0,1759,1636906,00.asp

Well, look at the source - it's journalism, and it's not meant to be
strictly accurate, merely sufficiently informative for the
mostly-uninformed.

I don't imagine e-Week would be interested in printing a retraction
should you find agreement on a definition in this group (which I suspect
is rather unlikely).

regards
Steve

[Peter Hansen]

Neuruss wrote:

"Dynamic programming languages enable programs to change their
structure as they run."

I wonder if this definition is correct.
Can we define dynamic languages this way?

http://www.eweek.com/article2/0,1759,1636906,00.asp

As Steve Holden points out, in effect, "sure we can", if we're
journalists.

But another point I haven't seen raised is that one can
certainly say that a dynamic programming language is one
that, like Python, allows an object to have new attributes
or methods added (or old ones removed) on-the-fly. That
certainly should fit the definition of "changing their
structure", by anyone's measure, and it doesn't involve
confusing the issue with "dynamic typing", which is not
necessarily the same thing.

-Peter