age of Python programmers

Lucas Raab wrote:

[...] what is the average age of a Python programmer?? [...]

Datapoint: 53

I'm fifty-three-years-old. Started programming in 1968 on IBM
mainframes using FORTRAN IV -- and now I'm here, retired, and
hanging out in this Python newsgroup...

but-it-seems-like-*so*-many-more-years'ly y'rs,
Richard

--
R Hanson [The mangled email addie below works.]
sick<P0INT>ole<PERI0D>fart<PIE_DEC0_SYNTAX>newsguy <MARK>com

Jul 18 '05 #102

Duncan Booth

"Lucas Raab" <py*********@hotmail.com> wrote in
news:jQ****************@newsread3.news.atl.earthli nk.net:

One thing I've always kind of wondered is what is the average age of a
Python programmer??

My average age is 21. My actual age is rather more.

Jul 18 '05 #103

Peter Hansen wrote:

Lucas Raab wrote:
One thing I've always kind of wondered is what is the average age of a
Python programmer??

My average age has been increasing steadily for years. :-(

:-)

(And ditto on the ':-('.)

While I agree with Peter -- and particularly, his ending emoticon
on *all* levels, I have to ask:

-- Was the OP asking about my age in *human* years... -- or
*Richard* years?

(One Richard year approximately equals *two* human years...)

;-)

over-a-century-in-"Richard"-years'ly y'rs,
Richard

--
R Hanson [The mangled email addie below works.]
sick<P0INT>ole<PERI0D>fart<PIE_DEC0_SYNTAX>newsguy <MARK>com

Jul 18 '05 #104

Mike C. Fletcher wrote:

It's so much more efficient to just make up the statistics.

Not *that's* a quote!

:-)

thread-enjoyingly y'rs,
Richard

--
R Hanson [The mangled email addie below works.]
sick<P0INT>ole<PERI0D>fart<PIE_DEC0_SYNTAX>newsguy <MARK>com

Jul 18 '05 #105

Richard Hanson wrote:

Mike C. Fletcher wrote:
It's so much more efficient to just make up the statistics.

Not *that's* a quote!

Uhh... Meant, of course:

"Now, *that's* a quote!"

proof-reading-after-the-fact'ly y'rs,
Richard

Jul 18 '05 #106

Rex

"Lucas Raab" <py*********@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:<jQ****************@newsread3.news.atl.earthl ink.net>...

One thing I've always kind of wondered is what is the average age of a
Python programmer?? What age groups use Python?? Something to think
about....

Well, I happen to 17 right now. I've been using Python (my first
(real) language!) for a couple years. I say 'real' because I did some
"programming" of my TI-86 graphing calculator (syntax quite similar to
BASIC) prior to that, but that hardly counts.
Funny story: I taught a 4th grader how to program in Python. He
decided he wanted to learn how to program a computer, so we sat down
over about a week on an elementary school Mac. and I taught him about
variables, strings, input/output, conditionals, and started talking
about while loops.
We had a great "guess the number the computer is thinking of..." game
going by the end. (Too high... Too low... You win!)

So, does he win the award for youngest Python programmer?

Jul 18 '05 #107

Scott David Daniels

Mark Jackson wrote:

"Lucas Raab" <py*********@hotmail.com> writes:
55. Wrote my first program at 16 (Fortran, punch cards).

Cool. I often tell people I am one of the oldest programmers
they'll meet who learned young. I'm 53, and my first program
was LGP-30 machine language at 15.

-Scott David Daniels
Sc***********@Acm.Org

Jul 18 '05 #108

Harry George

Thomas Heller <th*****@python.net> writes:

Robin Becker <ro***@reportlab.com> writes:
Lucas Raab wrote:
One thing I've always kind of wondered is what is the average age of a
Python programmer?? What age groups use Python?? Something to think
about....

57, used to build my own logic using gas discharge tubes :)

48, but my first logic was build using 24V relays.

52, and my first logic circuit was an inverter via a homemade relay
run from a 6V battery. (Dad: "Interesting alarm system. Do you know
you have invented a relay?" Me: "What's a relay?")

--
ha************@boeing.com
6-6M21 BCA CompArch Design Engineering
Phone: (425) 342-0007

Jul 18 '05 #109

Harry George

"Eli Stevens (WG.c)" <li*****@wickedgrey.com> writes:

Lucas Raab wrote:
One thing I've always kind of wondered is what is the average age of a
Python programmer?

25 here, Python newbie (less than a year, I think).

I'm sad that nobody else in this thread has spoken in hushed, reverent
tones about my gateway drug, LogoWriter. I was 10 when my fifth grade
math class went to the school computer lab and made the turtle crawl
around the screen. From there, QBasic, C++, C-because-school-made-me,
Java-because-work-made-me, Python-to-save-me. ;)

Handy tip: if you were anything like me, _don't_ go back and try to
read your old code. I had variable names like "qwer" "qwert" and
"qwerty", alongside classics like "a", "b" and "c."

*Shudder*
Eli

A few years ago, I mentored for a math class (3rd-5th grades), and we
did logo robotics. They programmed the little cars to drive a course
drawn on butcher paper. We started with open loop (no feedback), and
did pretty well, then added sensor feedback from strategically placed
lights and did better. Most of the kids were more interested in
building logo monster trucks or coloring on the butcher paper. But 3
of them "got it", and did the programming, and the rest ran after
run-away cars.

--
ha************@boeing.com
6-6M21 BCA CompArch Design Engineering
Phone: (425) 342-0007

Jul 18 '05 #110

Irmen de Jong

Alexandre Fayolle wrote:

Hi,

Age 30. Started programming at 15 on an Atari 520STe, using GFA Basic...
Been full time Python programmer for 4 years.

GFA Basic! Hey, that brings back memories.
I actually used it on the Amiga, there was a great port
of it to AmidaDOS at the time.

--Irmen

Jul 18 '05 #111

Nick Jacobson

Nicolas Évrard <ni***@no-log.org> wrote in message news:<ma**************************************@pyt hon.org>...

* Oliver Fromme [13:32 19/08/04 CEST]:
Lucas Raab <py*********@hotmail.com> wrote:
One thing I've always kind of wondered is what is the average age of a
Python programmer?? What age groups use Python?? Something to think
about....

I'm 00100001b (or 021h ... or if you prefer decimal, it's
33 years). Although I feel more like 27, which is the age
of my GF. :-)

Well if everybody feels like the age of his GF/BF, I'm 75 although I'm
only 27.

I don't mean to pry, but you're a 27 year-old dating a 75 year-old?
Like a "Harold and Maud" type deal?

Jul 18 '05 #112

Wilk

"Lucas Raab" <py*********@hotmail.com> writes:

One thing I've always kind of wondered is what is the average age of a
Python programmer?? What age groups use Python?? Something to think
about....

35, i began when i was 11 on Apple ][+ in 6502 assembly langage, then C,
Windev, PHP, Java and now I'm happy to can use only python since somes
years :-)
--
Wilk - http://flibuste.net

Jul 18 '05 #113

Robin Becker wrote:

Marius Bernklev wrote:
"Lucas Raab" <py*********@hotmail.com> writes:

One thing I've always kind of wondered is what is the average age of a
Python programmer?? What age groups use Python?? Something to think
about....

24. (anyone keeping count?)

It's raining so I can't go home

Only Event Horizon on TV tonight...

I spotted some errors in your list, added new entries, and made a
histogram: http://roelschroeven.net/pythonages/

number of datapoints: 95
mean: 35.6
standard deviation: 12.7

Gerrit Muller 47
Lucas Raab 14
OKB (not okbackle) 20
Jeremy Jones 31
Ben Last 39
Neuruss 34
Tony Clarke 55
simo 26
Elbert Lev 55
Kamilche 40
Gerardo Herzig 30
JanC 30
Mike Rovner 41
Guyon Morée 21
Tom Brown 35
Will McGugan 30
Christopher T King 19
Skip Montanaro 50
Marcin Jurczuk 26
Reid Nichol 27
Egbert Bouwman 67
VSOFTSMITH 62
Mark Jackson 55
Harry George 52
Stephen Ferg 58
Scott David Daniels 53
Peter Wilkinson 32
oziko 24
Dave Opstad 50
Adonis 23
Jorge Godoy 25
Peter Hickman 43
Axel Steiner 22
Larry Bates 49
Robin Becker 57
Thomas Heller 48
Paul McQuire 45
wes weston 55
P@draigBrady.com 30
Ian Sparks 34
Roel Schroeven 29
Christos TZOTZIOY Georgiou 32
Gary Herron 52
Ksenia Marasanova 31
Marius Bernklev 24
Robert Boyd 40
Fred Pacquier 44
Jarek Zgoda 33
Leif K-Brooks 13
Peter Maas 48
Tim Jarman 42
Irmen de Jong 30
Ted 46
Roman Suzi 30
Dave Benjamin 25
Christian von Essen 18
Byron 28
R Baumann 55
Batista, Facundo 29
Jeff Shannon 35
Cousin Stanley 58
Berthold Höllmann 38
me********@aol.com 50
Ville Vainio 27
Istvan Albert 32
Andrea Griffini 38
Arthur Rambo 43
Beeyah 15
Eli Stevens (WG.c) 25
Bigbowser 15
Hemanth P.S. 32
richard 32
Marcos Eimil Pardo 28
Daniel Harding 25
Rod Haper 57
Bruno Desthuilliers 37
avaeq 19
Scott David Daniels 53
Alexandre Fayolle 30
Andrew Durdin 24
Max M 39
Ganesan R 32
Stefan Schukat 33
Robbie 18
Marc Boeren 34
Gerrit van Dyk 39
Oliver Fromme 33
Nicolas Evrard 27
vr******@post.sk 25
Alan Kennedy 37
Francis Lavoie 25
Richard Hanson 53
br****@temple.edu 20
Rex 17
Wilk 35

--
"Codito ergo sum"
Roel Schroeven

Jul 18 '05 #114

Roel Schroeven wrote:

I spotted some errors in your list, added new entries, and made a
histogram: http://roelschroeven.net/pythonages/

Whoops, I had a duplicate entry. Updated:

number of datapoints: 94
mean: 35.4
standard deviation: 12.6

Gerrit Muller 47
Lucas Raab 14
OKB (not okbackle) 20
Jeremy Jones 31
Ben Last 39
Neuruss 34
Tony Clarke 55
simo 26
Elbert Lev 55
Kamilche 40
Gerardo Herzig 30
JanC 30
Mike Rovner 41
Guyon Morée 21
Tom Brown 35
Will McGugan 30
Christopher T King 19
Skip Montanaro 50
Marcin Jurczuk 26
Reid Nichol 27
Egbert Bouwman 67
VSOFTSMITH 62
Mark Jackson 55
Harry George 52
Stephen Ferg 58
Scott David Daniels 53
Peter Wilkinson 32
oziko 24
Dave Opstad 50
Adonis 23
Jorge Godoy 25
Peter Hickman 43
Axel Steiner 22
Larry Bates 49
Robin Becker 57
Thomas Heller 48
Paul McQuire 45
wes weston 55
P@draigBrady.com 30
Ian Sparks 34
Roel Schroeven 29
Christos TZOTZIOY Georgiou 32
Gary Herron 52
Ksenia Marasanova 31
Marius Bernklev 24
Robert Boyd 40
Fred Pacquier 44
Jarek Zgoda 33
Leif K-Brooks 13
Peter Maas 48
Tim Jarman 42
Irmen de Jong 30
Ted 46
Roman Suzi 30
Dave Benjamin 25
Christian von Essen 18
Byron 28
R Baumann 55
Batista, Facundo 29
Jeff Shannon 35
Cousin Stanley 58
Berthold Höllmann 38
me********@aol.com 50
Ville Vainio 27
Istvan Albert 32
Andrea Griffini 38
Arthur Rambo 43
Beeyah 15
Eli Stevens (WG.c) 25
Bigbowser 15
Hemanth P.S. 32
richard 32
Marcos Eimil Pardo 28
Daniel Harding 25
Rod Haper 57
Bruno Desthuilliers 37
avaeq 19
Alexandre Fayolle 30
Andrew Durdin 24
Max M 39
Ganesan R 32
Stefan Schukat 33
Robbie 18
Marc Boeren 34
Gerrit van Dyk 39
Oliver Fromme 33
Nicolas Evrard 27
vr******@post.sk 25
Alan Kennedy 37
Francis Lavoie 25
Richard Hanson 53
br****@temple.edu 20
Rex 17
Wilk 35

--
"Codito ergo sum"
Roel Schroeven

Jul 18 '05 #115

Gerrit Muller

Roel Schroeven wrote:

Roel Schroeven wrote:
I spotted some errors in your list, added new entries, and made a
histogram: http://roelschroeven.net/pythonages/

Very cool. It might be good idea to add a date and time at the top,
since new datapoint keep coming in?

regards Gerrit

P.S.,

a lot of people added other intersting datapoints: when they started
programming and other languages used. I started around the age of 14,
with HP table top machines (polish notation). Programming languages:
Assemblers, Fortran, *Basic, *Pascal, C, Objective-C, C++. The most
positive experiences were Sinclair QL-basic, Turbo Pascal, Objective-C
and then a quantum leap towards Python.

--
Gaudi systems architecting:
<http://www.extra.research.philips.com/natlab/sysarch/>

Jul 18 '05 #116

Gerrit Muller wrote:

Roel Schroeven wrote:
Roel Schroeven wrote:
I spotted some errors in your list, added new entries, and made a
histogram: http://roelschroeven.net/pythonages/

Very cool. It might be good idea to add a date and time at the top,
since new datapoint keep coming in?

Done. Good idea indeed.

--
"Codito ergo sum"
Roel Schroeven

Jul 18 '05 #117

Steve

Since this thread is certain to become something of a c.l.p lore, I'll
do my bit ...
Age: 26

I started out as a systems administrator, which required me to learn
shell scripting, I soon became a scripting nut, parsing conf files,
writing admin tools etc..., it didn't take me too long before I began
aching for a more ^expressive^ language, looked at perl, but that
appeared expressive only in the way slang is expressive for most
teenagers.
A programmer friend suggested python and it was then that I found
the language that I could write script poetry in. Before I realized
it, I was looking for python programmer jobs. Since I had decided to
give up my System Admin. status for that of a programmer, I learned C
and C++ (thanks to my python knowledge, I actually understood what I
was supposed to be doing :)).
Now I am a happy coder, working for a linux+python shop, doing
almost 90% of my work in python.

I guess the time has come for me to say this:
'A BIG THANK YOU' - to GvR and The Folks, for contributing to my state
of happiness.

Regards
Steve

Jul 18 '05 #118

Swaroop C H

"Lucas Raab" <py*********@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:<jQ****************@newsread3.news.atl.earthl ink.net>...

One thing I've always kind of wondered is what is the average age of a
Python programmer?? What age groups use Python?? Something to think
about....

Going to be 22 next month...

Btw, I've even written a book on it :-)
See www.python.g2swaroop.net

Enjoy,
Swaroop

Jul 18 '05 #119

Eric S. Johansson

when I first saw the title, I thought it was along the same theme as the
"age of dinosaurs" or some such thing. but my answer is just 48, two
years, more languages and I care to think about including mess of
assembly languages, tpl (a weird form of ratfor), and pl/1 subset g.

Python made it possible for me to write code again. After 18 years of
programming, RSI went critical and I stopped programming pretty much for
about 10 years. Python syntax is simple enough that I can, with proper
variable naming patterns, write code. The 5000+ lines of code and
comment in the camram project are proof of that.

I do wish there was better handicap accessibility for programming as
there are a bunch of us damaged programmers about to undertake a rather
significant project, namely making speech recognition work on Linux.
The details a boring if you're not interested so I will spare you but
this project is essential for those of us wishing for a choice in our
development environments.

---eric

--
Speech recognition in use. It makes mistakes, I correct most

Jul 18 '05 #120

Martin Bless

["Lucas Raab" <py*********@hotmail.com>]

One thing I've always kind of wondered is what is the average age of a
Python programmer??

49.

Started 1974 punching cards for an IBM 1130 machine. A highlight: Fill
a complete program with two interrupt routines into a single punch
card. It would write something like "job defect" on the typewriter
console. Just one card means: you can use just 80 words of code on
that 16-bit machine. And since a column on a card only had 12 rows
your could use only a special subset of availabe machine instructions.

Then there came the TRS-80. I'm still proud of the way I stored my Z80
assembler routines in REM lines of a basic program. That way I could
easily merge und bundle those "machine language" routines. Yes, I
lived very much in the book with the ROM disassembly listing those
days ;-)

And I remember taking a (INTER-) LISP course. I liked it alot but
never managed to be productive with LISP.

Now I have what I need to have fun *and* accomplish useful things:
Python! Many thanks to all who help developing this cool language!

MB - Martin Bless

Jul 18 '05 #121

Christos TZOTZIOY Georgiou

On Fri, 20 Aug 2004 10:23:16 +0200, rumours say that Gerrit Muller
<ge***********@embeddedsystems.nl> might have written:

[snip]

The most
positive experiences were Sinclair QL-basic, [snip]

I'll drink to that!

PS If only IBM had initially chosen a Motorola CPU for their PC...
--
TZOTZIOY, I speak England very best,
"Tssss!" --Brad Pitt as Achilles in unprecedented Ancient Greek

Jul 18 '05 #122

huy

Skip Montanaro wrote:

Dave> Python fits my brain.

I agree. This gets my nod for QOTW.

Skip

Lucky for me I found python before Java took over my brain.

Huy

Jul 18 '05 #123

Ville Vainio

>>>>> "Christos" == TZOTZIOY <Christos> writes:

Christos> On Fri, 20 Aug 2004 10:23:16 +0200, rumours say that
Christos> Gerrit Muller <ge***********@embeddedsystems.nl> might
Christos> have written:

The most
positive experiences were Sinclair QL-basic, [snip]

Christos> I'll drink to that!

Apparently there is some good karma in Sinclair QL - Linus also used
to hack on it.

I had MSX (SVI-728), which probably steered me more towards coding
than C64 would have (most friends had one of those, along with 500+
games ;-) - it had a decent basic (MS basic) from Microsoft's pre-evil
era.

Ah, even seeing the SVI-728 acronym puts me on the nostalgy train...

--
Ville Vainio http://tinyurl.com/2prnb

Jul 18 '05 #124

Gerrit Muller wrote:

Roel Schroeven wrote:
Roel Schroeven wrote:
I spotted some errors in your list, added new entries, and made a
histogram: http://roelschroeven.net/pythonages/

Very cool. It might be good idea to add a date and time at the top,
since new datapoint keep coming in?

How about labels for the axes as well.

and then a quantum leap towards Python.

You're aware that a quantum leap means a extremely small leap, right?

Jul 18 '05 #125

Reid Nichol wrote:

Gerrit Muller wrote:
Roel Schroeven wrote:
Roel Schroeven wrote:

I spotted some errors in your list, added new entries, and made a
histogram: http://roelschroeven.net/pythonages/

Very cool. It might be good idea to add a date and time at the top,
since new datapoint keep coming in?

How about labels for the axes as well.

I thought it would be fairly obvious, but I added labels anyway. I'm not
satisfied with there positioning though, and I don't know how to correct
it (it's the first time ever I use matplotlib).

--
"Codito ergo sum"
Roel Schroeven

Jul 18 '05 #126

Tim Hochberg

Reid Nichol wrote:

Gerrit Muller wrote:
Roel Schroeven wrote:
Roel Schroeven wrote:

I spotted some errors in your list, added new entries, and made a
histogram: http://roelschroeven.net/pythonages/

Very cool. It might be good idea to add a date and time at the top,
since new datapoint keep coming in?

How about labels for the axes as well.

and then a quantum leap towards Python.

You're aware that a quantum leap means a extremely small leap, right?

While quanta are typically very-very-very small, last I checked the key
feature of quantum transitions is not that they're small, but that there
are no intermediate steps. The object is in state A then it's in state
B, but it's never halfway (or anywhere) between. Like most quantum stuff
it's better not to think about that too closely.

-tim

Jul 18 '05 #127

huy wrote:

Skip Montanaro wrote:
Dave> Python fits my brain.

I agree. This gets my nod for QOTW.

Skip

Lucky for me I found python before Java took over my brain.

Huy

Amen to that!

Jul 18 '05 #128

Mark Jackson

Reid Nichol <rn*********@yahoo.com> writes:

Gerrit Muller wrote:

and then a quantum leap towards Python.

You're aware that a quantum leap means a extremely small leap, right?

Everything's relative - compared to the smallest possible change in the
classical continuum, a quantum leap is *huge*.

--
Mark Jackson - http://www.alumni.caltech.edu/~mjackson
Fascism should more properly be called corporatism, since it
is the merger of state and corporate power.
- Benito Mussolini

Jul 18 '05 #129

Tim Hochberg wrote:

Reid Nichol wrote:
Gerrit Muller wrote:
and then a quantum leap towards Python.

You're aware that a quantum leap means a extremely small leap, right?

While quanta are typically very-very-very small, last I checked the key
feature of quantum transitions is not that they're small, but that there
are no intermediate steps. The object is in state A then it's in state
B, but it's never halfway (or anywhere) between. Like most quantum stuff
it's better not to think about that too closely.

And at least some dictionaries give it as a synonym for "large"
or "significant". (www.m-w.com for one)

-Peter

Jul 18 '05 #130

beliavsky

"Lucas Raab" <py*********@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:<jQ****************@newsread3.news.atl.earthl ink.net>...

One thing I've always kind of wondered is what is the average age of a
Python programmer?? What age groups use Python?? Something to think
about....

Related question -- at what age can Python be taught to a bright, motivated child?

Jul 18 '05 #131

Jarek Zgoda

be*******@aol.com <be*******@aol.com> pisze:

One thing I've always kind of wondered is what is the average age of a
Python programmer?? What age groups use Python?? Something to think
about....

Related question -- at what age can Python be taught to a bright, motivated child?

My daughter is 3 months old and I can be authoritative -- it's too
early. Although she's bright and motivated, of course. ;)

--
Jarek Zgoda
http://jpa.berlios.de/

Jul 18 '05 #132

be*******@aol.com wrote:

"Lucas Raab" <py*********@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:<jQ****************@newsread3.news.atl.earthl ink.net>...
One thing I've always kind of wondered is what is the average age of a
Python programmer?? What age groups use Python?? Something to think
about....

Related question -- at what age can Python be taught to a bright, motivated child?

I expect to be old enough to teach Python to a bright, motivated
child or two (maybe even mine) in a few more years. ;-)

-Peter

Jul 18 '05 #133

Jeff Shannon

Tim Hochberg wrote:

Reid Nichol wrote:
You're aware that a quantum leap means a extremely small leap, right?

While quanta are typically very-very-very small, last I checked the
key feature of quantum transitions is not that they're small, but that
there are no intermediate steps. The object is in state A then it's in
state B, but it's never halfway (or anywhere) between. Like most
quantum stuff it's better not to think about that too closely.

And let's note, here, that "quantum" is not by any means restricted to
the domain of quantum-mechanical physics. It's true that, within that
domain, quanta are almost always a very small amount. But, as Tim says,
the important feature of a quantum is that it's the smallest possible
change of a given measurement, and implies a discrete (rather than
continuum) underpinning to that measurement. It just so happens that
the most well-known and talked-about quantum domains are related to
subatomic physics, where the quanta involved are indeed very very small;
but there's no /a priori/ restriction of quanta to apply only in that field.

Jeff Shannon
Technician/Programmer
Credit International

Jul 18 '05 #134

Mark Jackson wrote:

Reid Nichol <rn*********@yahoo.com> writes:
Gerrit Muller wrote:

and then a quantum leap towards Python.

You're aware that a quantum leap means a extremely small leap, right?

Everything's relative - compared to the smallest possible change in the
classical continuum, a quantum leap is *huge*.

True, but this doesn't change the definition of the word.

from dictionary.reference.com:
The smallest amount of a physical quantity that can exist independently,
especially a discrete quantity of electromagnetic radiation.

Jul 18 '05 #135

Tim Hochberg wrote:

Reid Nichol wrote:
Gerrit Muller wrote:
Roel Schroeven wrote:

Roel Schroeven wrote:

> I spotted some errors in your list, added new entries, and made a
> histogram: http://roelschroeven.net/pythonages/

Very cool. It might be good idea to add a date and time at the top,
since new datapoint keep coming in?

How about labels for the axes as well.

and then a quantum leap towards Python.

You're aware that a quantum leap means a extremely small leap, right?

While quanta are typically very-very-very small, last I checked the key
feature of quantum transitions is not that they're small, but that there
are no intermediate steps. The object is in state A then it's in state
B, but it's never halfway (or anywhere) between. Like most quantum stuff
it's better not to think about that too closely.

-tim

Check the definition of the word.

Jul 18 '05 #136

Peter Hansen wrote:

Tim Hochberg wrote:
Reid Nichol wrote:
Gerrit Muller wrote:

and then a quantum leap towards Python.

You're aware that a quantum leap means a extremely small leap, right?

While quanta are typically very-very-very small, last I checked the
key feature of quantum transitions is not that they're small, but that
there are no intermediate steps. The object is in state A then it's in
state B, but it's never halfway (or anywhere) between. Like most
quantum stuff it's better not to think about that too closely.

And at least some dictionaries give it as a synonym for "large"
or "significant". (www.m-w.com for one)

-Peter

Such things are only the result of a misunderstanding of the word some
time ago. Even though it is wrong, it has become common use, thus the
incorrect definition definition(s).

Jul 18 '05 #137

Tim Hochberg

Reid Nichol wrote:

Tim Hochberg wrote:
[SNIP]

While quanta are typically very-very-very small, last I checked the
key feature of quantum transitions is not that they're small, but that
there are no intermediate steps. The object is in state A then it's in
state B, but it's never halfway (or anywhere) between. Like most
quantum stuff it's better not to think about that too closely.

-tim

Check the definition of the word.

May I ask why? I assume you mean this (from another post):
from dictionary.reference.com:
The smallest amount of a physical quantity that can exist
independently, especially a discrete quantity of electromagnetic
radiation.

I fail to see a signifigant conflict between this definition of quantum
and what I wrote above about quantum transitions. I'll even go out on a
limb and speculate that the origin of the term "quantum leap" is with
quantum, probably atomic, transitions and refers to a change where there
are no intermediate states and not "The smallest possible leap that can
exist".

[checks]

You might look at this, also from dictionary.reference.com:

quantum leap

A dramatic advance, especially in knowledge or method, as in
Establishing a central bank represents a quantum leap in this small
country's development. This term originated as quantum jump in the
mid-1900s in physics, where it denotes a sudden change from one energy
state to another within an atom. Within a decade it was transferred to
other advances, not necessarily sudden but very important ones.

-tim

Jul 18 '05 #138

> You might look at this, also from dictionary.reference.com:

quantum leap

A dramatic advance, especially in knowledge or method, as in
Establishing a central bank represents a quantum leap in this small
country's development. This term originated as quantum jump in the
mid-1900s in physics, where it denotes a sudden change from one energy
state to another within an atom. Within a decade it was transferred to
other advances, not necessarily sudden but very important ones.

You're aware of how big an atom is right? And people don't typically
suddenly change from one language to another. They'll tend to change
gradually if only because the people at work won't like an inflection
point with regards to such matters. It makes support hell.

Jul 18 '05 #139

Mark Jackson

Reid Nichol <rn*********@yahoo.com> writes:

Mark Jackson wrote:
Reid Nichol <rn*********@yahoo.com> writes:
Gerrit Muller wrote:
and then a quantum leap towards Python.

You're aware that a quantum leap means a extremely small leap, right?

Everything's relative - compared to the smallest possible change in the
classical continuum, a quantum leap is *huge*.

True, but this doesn't change the definition of the word.

from dictionary.reference.com:
The smallest amount of a physical quantity that can exist independently,
especially a discrete quantity of electromagnetic radiation.

and Reid Nichol <rn*********@yahoo.com> writes elsewhere:
Check the definition of the word.
and Reid Nichol <rn*********@yahoo.com> writes elsewhere:
Peter Hansen wrote:
And at least some dictionaries give it as a synonym for "large"
or "significant". (www.m-w.com for one)

-Peter

Such things are only the result of a misunderstanding of the word some
time ago. Even though it is wrong, it has become common use, thus the
incorrect definition definition(s).
from which we conclude that "check the definition" means "check the
definition in the dictionary *I* prefer". . . .

but Tim Hochberg <ti**********@ieee.org> writes elsewhere:
You might look at this, also from dictionary.reference.com: quantum leap A dramatic advance, especially in knowledge or method, as in
Establishing a central bank represents a quantum leap in this small
country's development. This term originated as quantum jump in the
mid-1900s in physics, where it denotes a sudden change from one energy
state to another within an atom. Within a decade it was transferred to
other advances, not necessarily sudden but very important ones.

from which we conclude that "check the definition" means "check the
definition in the dictionary *I* prefer. . .AND stop reading before it
contradicts the position I espouse."

Look, given the use of "quantum" in quantum physics it's reasonable to
expect the word to mean something small - but insisting it must do so
is flat-out wrong. For one thing this isn't Gell-Mann appropriating a
nonsense word - "quark" - from Joyce; "quantum" was a perfectly good
English word before Planck applied it to black-body radiation. The OED
has references going back to 1619 as a synonym for quantity. (It even
has a use in pharmacology - "quant. suff!", famously chanted in Alfred
Bester's /The Stars My Destination/, is an abbreviation of "quantum
sufficit," roughly "as much as necessary.)

--
Mark Jackson - http://www.alumni.caltech.edu/~mjackson
Fascism should more properly be called corporatism, since it
is the merger of state and corporate power.
- Benito Mussolini

Jul 18 '05 #140

Javier Ruere

Lucas Raab wrote:

One thing I've always kind of wondered is what is the average age of a
Python programmer?? What age groups use Python?? Something to think
about....

I'm 23.

Javier

Jul 18 '05 #141

John Hunter

>>>>> "Roel" == Roel Schroeven <rs****************@fastmail.fm> writes:

Roel> I thought it would be fairly obvious, but I added labels
Roel> anyway. I'm not satisfied with there positioning though, and
Roel> I don't know how to correct it (it's the first time ever I
Roel> use matplotlib).

How would you like them to be different? They look pretty good to
me.... :-)

JDH

Jul 18 '05 #142

Bryan

Lucas Raab wrote:

One thing I've always kind of wondered is what is the average age of a
Python programmer?? What age groups use Python?? Something to think
about....

i'm 37... started programing on a TRS-80 Model I and III. i also did a bit a programming on a VIC-20... brownie points
for anyone who can remember how many text characters there was in one row... believe it or not, i can remember this :)
eventhough i'm not OLD like some of those on this list, i did get to program BASIC with punch cards in my 8th grade math
class.

bryan

Jul 18 '05 #143

Reid Nichol wrote:

Peter Hansen wrote (about "quantum"):
And at least some dictionaries give it as a synonym for "large"
or "significant". (www.m-w.com for one)

Such things are only the result of a misunderstanding of the word some
time ago. Even though it is wrong, it has become common use, thus the
incorrect definition definition(s).

Whatever... the point is that you can be prescriptive or descriptive
about the meanings of words... and *descriptively speaking*, it is
used as "large" and at least one dictionary accurately notes that
fact. Nobody really cares whether it results from a misunderstanding
or mistake... if they did, Americans would properly use "fewer"
in all those cases where they now use "less" incorrectly.

-Peter

Jul 18 '05 #144

Bryan wrote:

i'm 37... started programing on a TRS-80 Model I and III. i also did a
bit a programming on a VIC-20... brownie points for anyone who can
remember how many text characters there was in one row...
23! ... freakin' weird little machine that was... :-)
believe it or not, i can remember this :)
eventhough i'm not OLD like some of those on
this list, i did get to program BASIC with punch cards in my 8th grade
math class.

-Peter

Jul 18 '05 #145

Paddy McCarthy

Hi, I'm 44,
Male, Partnered for life to Maggie and have two sprogs Owen 7 and
Guinan 9.

I started Programming because at 15 I liked to go to the Trent Polly
library where I learnt that High School kids had access to their DEC
Mini. I snuck down to the teletypes and wrote my first programs in
Basic. (I'm still bitter that the Computer was open to all schools but
it seemed that only the High school new about it ;-)

After that I learnt all about electrons, holes, migration, doping,
(yawn) You can say I learnt much more about the hardware than was
neccessary!

Along the way I was a Pascal bigot but got over that once they
standardised C, A C programmer, A C++ avoider,a forth dabbler, an AWK
expert, A Cadence SKILL expert - (marry Lisp to optional infix
notation and you end up with a very good language), Oh and I wrote my
own interpreter (in C on an Acorn RiscPC),
Over the years I have come to realise the one true editor is vi but
you must include its clones, and you must also admit that other
editors have their strong points. (apart from EMACS which is to be
avoided :-)

I also do perl and like a lot of people here - its for work only.

Ideally I'd do most of my programming in AWK for small scripts, Python
for as much as is comfortable, C when neccessary, SKILL for nostalgia,
and others for unique capabilities, e.g. there is no constrained
random-generation of integers in Python for it to be used in testing
Digital ICs.

I'm carefully monitoring the kids and as soon as they show that sparc
of interest, I'll back off for fear of putting them off programming
for life :-)
Cheers, Pad.

Jul 18 '05 #146