Python intro questions (was: <no subject>)

[Skip Montanaro]

(moving over from webmaster mailbox)

scott> I'm sorry for bothering you, but I've tried to post to the Python
scott> Tutor Mail List, tried to get someone from Bay PIggies to
scott> respond, but no one is responding to my questions. If you don't
scott> want to answer my questions, I'd appreciate an e-mail stating
scott> that. My questions are as follows:

A better place to post this would be to py*********@python.org (I've cc'd
that list). Please post followup questions there. Another place to post
questions is he**@python.org. I've never followed the tutor list.
Mail.python.org has been severely stressed for the past several days though.
I wouldn't be surprised if nobody there has seen you post yet.

Your questions are both fairly common and fairly understandable for people
coming new to Python. Briefly...

scott> 1. Is Python being accepted by the programming community? I find
scott> more articles about Java and the buzz about Python seems to be
scott> non-existant. The Jython most current release was from
scott> 2001. It makes me think there's not a real need for it. Please
scott> correct me if I read this wrong.

Yes. Java has at least the marketing department of Sun and probably several
other companies behind it. Money buys column inches in many trade rags.
OTOH, Python is pure open source. There's no big company marketing
department behind it. Nobody gets paid to write articles about Python, so
its growth has been somewhat more measured. The growth isn't due to an
injection of hype though. Instead, people see how well it helps them do
their programming jobs and stick with it.

scott> 2. Is there a good tutorial or class? If I am to present this to
scott> my boss, some way to make people productive with
scott> Python/Jython, preferrably with an Instructor -Led Class, but
scott> Computer Based Training is good too (we work out of NJ in
scott> Roseland).

Yes, there are people/companies doing Python training. I suggest you check
the Python web site and Wiki for info:

http://www.python.org/
http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/moinmoin

scott> 3. Does Python CGI pages come with the same limitations as Perl
scott> CGI pages. From what I heard CGI pages are a bit more clunky
scott> than JSP pages. Again, any information regarding that would be
scott> appreciated.

CGI is an older technology/protocol than JSP, so it's not surprising that it
has some limitations. That your CGI scripts are written in Python or Perl
doesn't matter. CGI forces you to do things certain ways (like forking per
request, so it's tougher to retain state across requests).

scott> I want to be able to learn a language that can help me in my
scott> work. Only by having such a tool will I ever learn it
scott> completely. Any help or guidance towards integrating Python in
scott> the above environment would be most appreciated.

A lot of people use Python. I'm fortunate enough to have a job where I was
hired precisely because of my Python expertise, but that wasn't always the
case. You may have to "subvert" your environment for awhile, sneaking
Python in where you can. Once people (most importantly your boss) see that
you are more productive with it, they will start paying attention.

--
Skip Montanaro
Got gigs? http://www.musi-cal.com/submit.html
Got spam? http://www.spambayes.org/
sk**@pobox.com

[Daniel Yoo]

Skip Montanaro <sk**@pobox.com> wrote:

: (moving over from webmaster mailbox)

: scott> I'm sorry for bothering you, but I've tried to post to the Python
: scott> Tutor Mail List, tried to get someone from Bay PIggies to
: scott> respond, but no one is responding to my questions. If you don't
: scott> want to answer my questions, I'd appreciate an e-mail stating
: scott> that. My questions are as follows:
:
: A better place to post this would be to py*********@python.org (I've cc'd
: that list). Please post followup questions there. Another place to post
: questions is he**@python.org. I've never followed the tutor list.
Yeah; Tutor is having issues at the moment. We're still backlogged
from Friday, and I'm not sure when our mailing list traffic will get
back to normal. I get the feeling that there's some denial-of-service
being applied against our mail server.
: Mail.python.org has been severely stressed for the past several days
though.

Ok. That explains it.

: scott> 3. Does Python CGI pages come with the same limitations as Perl
: scott> CGI pages. From what I heard CGI pages are a bit more clunky
: scott> than JSP pages. Again, any information regarding that would be
: scott> appreciated.
:
: CGI is an older technology/protocol than JSP, so it's not surprising that it
: has some limitations. That your CGI scripts are written in Python or Perl
: doesn't matter. CGI forces you to do things certain ways (like forking per
: request, so it's tougher to retain state across requests).

There are several approaches to avoid the cost of forking. mod_python
is one such approach:

http://www.modpython.org/
Good luck!

[Cameron Laird]

In article <ma*************************************@python.or g>,
Skip Montanaro <sk**@pobox.com> wrote:

[Terry Reedy]

"Cameron Laird" <cl****@lairds.com> wrote in message
news:10*************@corp.supernews.com...

On an industrial scale, yes, pay for Python articles is
essentially zero. Please do note, though, that develop-
erWorks, O'Reilly, *Linux Journal*, *Linux Magazine*,
and at least a few other outlets have been surprisingly
generous in their support of Python-focused content.

Other outlets includes Dr. Dobbs in the last few years.

tjr

[Dan]

But there is already a Python-oriented magazine. Pyzine.
http://www.pyzine.com
It is now only an online subscription service, but it started out in
dead tree form before it was transfered to a new publisher. It would
be nice to see it in dead tree form again.

Dan

cl****@lairds.com (Cameron Laird) wrote in message news:

...There's even a slim chance for a Python-oriented magazine.
It's slim, of course, precisely because it's so hard to
figure out who'd want to advertise in such a publication,
and because advertising is so crucial.