Python - open forever ?

[Romans Krjukovs]

Hi !

Our company is going to start use Python widely.
To make this reality we have to include Python in our strategy
plans for at least 3 nearest years.
This would be a green light to our developers to start new projects on
Python.

At the presentation of Python and its usage posiibilities in our
home environment to the members of the project managers board,
we got such questions:
- There is a risk that Python can become closed and unsupported in the
future.
(Remember RedHat ?)
- Who can guarantee that Python will be usable and available to us if
it is
develeped and maintained by the hackers from all over the world
without
any obligations and guarantees ?
- How we can minimize such risk ? (Become a member of some club,
buy licenses, support etc.)

Python is very fast in development, stable and fast code, easy to learn,
but never the less big and business critical project can't be started
without
mentioned risk analyses.
It would be nice to know what Python society members think about this.

Thank You !

BRG

Romans Krjukovs

[Lutz Horn]

Romans Krjukovs wrote:

- There is a risk that Python can become closed and unsupported in the
future.
No. See the Misson Statement of the PSF[0].
- How we can minimize such risk ? (Become a member of some club,
buy licenses, support etc.)

Support the PSF by making a donation[1].

Lutz

[0] http://www.python.org/psf/mission.html
[1] http://www.python.org/psf/donations.html

[Michael Hudson]

"Romans Krjukovs" <Ro*************@lattelekom.lv> writes:

Hi !

Our company is going to start use Python widely.
To make this reality we have to include Python in our strategy
plans for at least 3 nearest years.
This would be a green light to our developers to start new projects on
Python.

At the presentation of Python and its usage posiibilities in our
home environment to the members of the project managers board,
we got such questions:
- There is a risk that Python can become closed and unsupported in the
future.
Exceedingly unlikely.
- Who can guarantee that Python will be usable and available to us
if it is develeped and maintained by the hackers from all over the
world without any obligations and guarantees ?
Well, noone really. But who guarantees such things for any other bit
of software you use?
- How we can minimize such risk ? (Become a member of some club,
buy licenses, support etc.)

Are you aware of the PSF? http://www.python.org/psf/

If handing out money would make you feel more secure, that's where it
should go.

Cheers,
mwh

--
In that case I suggest that to get the correct image you look at
the screen from inside the monitor whilst standing on your head.
-- James Bonfield, http://www.ioccc.org/2000/rince.hint

[Peter Hansen]

Romans Krjukovs wrote:

To make this reality we have to include Python in our strategy
plans for at least 3 nearest years.
This would be a green light to our developers to start new projects on
Python.

At the presentation of Python and its usage posiibilities in our
home environment to the members of the project managers board,
we got such questions:
- There is a risk that Python can become closed and unsupported in the
future.
(Remember RedHat ?)
I remember RedHat. In fact, I can still download it, and install and
use it. For free. And get the source code. And get support (if I'm
willing to pay, of course, but it would be ludicrous for a company to
insist that free support is a necessity for a given technology).
What is "closed and unsupported" about it?
- Who can guarantee that Python will be usable and available to us if
it is develeped and maintained by the hackers from all over the world
without any obligations and guarantees ?
Python has been usable and available for the last thirteen
years, but perhaps the last thirteen years have been atypical...
- How we can minimize such risk ? (Become a member of some club,
buy licenses, support etc.)
You can read the Python license and, if you really insist, consult
with your lawyers, whom you pay to give legal and strategic advice of
this nature. Then you will understand that the nature of the Python
license is such that these silly unreliable hackers, who won't guarantee
anything, cannot prevent you from using Python and taking the source
code and doing what you will with it, for the most part. But I'm not a
lawyer...

Note that if you have money to spend, you can certainly pay various
companies for Python support. Of course, that won't provide you
with any guarantees either, but perhaps it will be costly enough to
make your management believe so....

If you don't want to spend the money, it's a little unclear why you
would whine about obligations and guarantees... the economy doesn't
really work that way, even in the Open Source movement.
Python is very fast in development, stable and fast code, easy to learn,
but never the less big and business critical project can't be started
without mentioned risk analyses. It would be nice to know what Python society members think about this.

Basically this: if you are going to use Python in "big and business
critical projects", you want stability. To achieve stability, among
other things you want to chose one version of Python and stick with it
for a very long time, rather than consantly upgrading with each new
release (IMHO). Given that strategy, you need only assure yourself that
the license on the version of Python that you adopt, and on any third-
party modules you use, allows you to use it in the ways you want to use
it, including getting the source code and even redistributing it if you
wish.

At my previous employer, a 100+ employee telecom in Toronto, we chose
Linux (RedHat, even) and Python as the basis for a range of products.
The extent of the risk assessment required was to verify that the
licenses allowed us to do the development without the risk that someone
(other than SCO, say) would constrain us from continuing to use it.
We didn't expect, or look for, any guarantees that all future versions
would forever be completely free and unconstrained. Again, pointing
to SCO, there _are_ no guarantees...

-Peter

[A. Lloyd Flanagan]

"Romans Krjukovs" <Ro*************@lattelekom.lv> wrote in message news:<ma**************************************@pyt hon.org>...

Hi !

- There is a risk that Python can become closed and unsupported in the
future.
(Remember RedHat ?) Even if someone were to come out with a version of python which was
closed and unsupported, they can't stop you from using the versions
that have already been released -- the python license is pretty clear
about that.
The other response is, who would do it? A number of companies,
organizations, and individuals currently develop and support python.
If one came out with a version to which they made some other license
claim, the rest would simply ignore that version, and you could to.

- Who can guarantee that Python will be usable and available to us if
it is
develeped and maintained by the hackers from all over the world
without
any obligations and guarantees ? Is the version of python as it is right now usable? If so, it will
always be available, no matter what.
- How we can minimize such risk ? (Become a member of some club,
buy licenses, support etc.)

Doesn't IBM support python now? I'm sure a number of smaller
companies do.

[mr.happy]

On Thu, 13 May 2004 15:55:53 +0300, Romans Krjukovs wrote:

- There is a risk that Python can become closed and unsupported in the
future.
(Remember RedHat ?)
RedHat is still open and supported, I don't know where you got the
information that is was supposed to be closed and unsupported now. You can
get the sources for RHES, they are available on the RH ftp servers.

On the support side, they probably have better support now then ever
before, though it's a bit more expensive now.
- Who can guarantee that Python will be usable and available to us if
it is
develeped and maintained by the hackers from all over the world
without
any obligations and guarantees ?
who will guarantee you that software x from company y will be available to
you! company y might go bust or just stop development of software x
because there was no profit made with the product. _that_ is one fear you
never have to deal with, as OSS programs exists because they are, and in
theory never die. don't think it never happens, i have been in the IT
world for a while and i've seen these commercial programs come and go, and
when they are gone, you can do nothing but quickly upgrade to something
else.

even if for some reason all development would stop on python, the sources
are still available and your company could hire programmers to continue
the development as a last resort.
- How we can minimize such risk ? (Become a member of some club,
buy licenses, support etc.)

see this: http://www.python.org/psf/donations.html
and this: http://www.python.org/psf/mission.html

greets,
--
There is no statute of limitations on stupidity.