python for console game development, memory tracking

[Moosebumps]

When I have time, I am planning to evaluate Python for console game
development (on Playstation 2, GameCube, and Xbox). Does anyone have any
experience with this?

Pretty much the only resource I have found, and the only thing that makes me
think it might be possible is this:

http://asbahr.com/python.html

I would be interested to hear anybody's experience with Python on consoles.

Before I even begin investigating though, there is a major question I have:
How can you track the memory usage of Python? I would like to be able to
track allocations by function / class, etc. I have googled and seen a bunch
of threads with 1 guy asking the same exact question that I am, and no
responses, which leads me to believe it's very easy or not possible. This
would be dealbreaker unfortunately. But I am optimistic that Python is well
designed so there must be some solution.

thanks,
MB

[Nelson Minar]

"Moosebumps" <mo********@moosebumps.com> writes:

When I have time, I am planning to evaluate Python for console game
development (on Playstation 2, GameCube, and Xbox). Does anyone have any
experience with this?

Nope. But in addition to the PS2 and GC Python builds you found:
http://asbahr.com/python.html

There's Python for the XBox. Xbox Media Center, the unauthorized
software, includes Python embedded in the XBMC builds. You'll need a
modified / hacked XBox to run it. If you want to learn more, I just
wrote an intro on my blog:
http://www.nelson.monkey.org/~nelson...boxPython.html

[Carl Banks]

Moosebumps wrote:

When I have time, I am planning to evaluate Python for console game
development (on Playstation 2, GameCube, and Xbox). Does anyone have any
experience with this?

Pretty much the only resource I have found, and the only thing that makes me
think it might be possible is this:

http://asbahr.com/python.html

I would be interested to hear anybody's experience with Python on consoles.
I can't speak for Game Cube or XBOX, but I have a Playstation running
Linux, so I know a little. I suspect Game Cube and XBOX have similar,
but less severe, concerns. Of course, since my Playstation has Linux
and a big ol' hard drive, I am not constrained with memory as much as
a native PS2 game would be.

It seems that Python works just fine. I was able to control graphics
straight from Python using Numeric and a little C wrapper, and it
worked pretty well. It wasn't much of a demo, though, and of course
almost all of the graphics work would be done from C anyways. I don't
have much more experience than a few graphics demos, though.

One thing that bothers me a little is that Python uses double
precision floats, but PS2 only supports single-precision natively. I
suspect most calculation-type code would be done in C, though.

Before I even begin investigating though, there is a major question I have:
How can you track the memory usage of Python? I would like to be able to
track allocations by function / class, etc. I have googled and seen a bunch
of threads with 1 guy asking the same exact question that I am, and no
responses, which leads me to believe it's very easy or not possible. This
would be dealbreaker unfortunately. But I am optimistic that Python is well
designed so there must be some solution.

You're right that memory is probably the biggest factor against Python
use, at least if you don't patch it. If you use it for production
work, I don't think there's any way you'd be able to use Python's
regular memory allocation. So, seeing that you'd have to use your own
memory allocation, you can keep track of the stuff yourself. Or you
can use a library that works on PS2 and also does what you need.
--
CARL BANKS http://www.aerojockey.com/software
"If you believe in yourself, drink your school, stay on drugs, and
don't do milk, you can get work."
-- Parody of Mr. T from a Robert Smigel Cartoon

[Simon Burton]

On Sat, 24 Apr 2004 07:13:06 +0000, Moosebumps wrote:
....

Before I even begin investigating though, there is a major question I
have: How can you track the memory usage of Python? I would like to be
able to track allocations by function / class, etc. I have googled and
seen a bunch of threads with 1 guy asking the same exact question that I
am, and no responses, which leads me to believe it's very easy or not
possible. This would be dealbreaker unfortunately. But I am optimistic
that Python is well designed so there must be some solution.

thanks,
MB

I was just investigating this myself. Check out pymem.h in the source:

/* SCENARIOS

Here are two scenarios by Vladimir Marangozov (the author of the
memory allocation redesign).

1) Scenario A

Suppose you want to use a debugging malloc library that collects info on
where the malloc calls originate from. Assume the interface is:

d_malloc(size_t n, char* src_file, unsigned long src_line) c.s.

In this case, you would define (for example in pyconfig.h) :

#define PyCore_MALLOC_FUNC d_malloc
...
#define PyCore_MALLOC_PROTO (size_t, char *, unsigned long)
...
#define NEED_TO_DECLARE_MALLOC_AND_FRIEND

#define PyCore_MALLOC(n) PyCore_MALLOC_FUNC((n), __FILE__, __LINE__)
...

2) Scenario B

Suppose you want to use malloc hooks (defined & initialized in a 3rd party
malloc library) instead of malloc functions. In this case, you would
define:

#define PyCore_MALLOC_FUNC (*malloc_hook)
...
#define NEED_TO_DECLARE_MALLOC_AND_FRIEND

and ignore the previous definitions about PyCore_MALLOC_FUNC, etc.
*/
Simon.

[Lucas Raab]

"Carl Banks" <im*****@aerojockey.invalid> wrote in message
news:Ih****************@fe1.columbus.rr.com...

Moosebumps wrote:

When I have time, I am planning to evaluate Python for console game
development (on Playstation 2, GameCube, and Xbox). Does anyone have any experience with this?

Pretty much the only resource I have found, and the only thing that makes me think it might be possible is this:

http://asbahr.com/python.html

I would be interested to hear anybody's experience with Python on consoles.

I can't speak for Game Cube or XBOX, but I have a Playstation running
Linux, so I know a little. I suspect Game Cube and XBOX have similar,
but less severe, concerns. Of course, since my Playstation has Linux
and a big ol' hard drive, I am not constrained with memory as much as
a native PS2 game would be.

It seems that Python works just fine. I was able to control graphics
straight from Python using Numeric and a little C wrapper, and it
worked pretty well. It wasn't much of a demo, though, and of course
almost all of the graphics work would be done from C anyways. I don't
have much more experience than a few graphics demos, though.

One thing that bothers me a little is that Python uses double
precision floats, but PS2 only supports single-precision natively. I
suspect most calculation-type code would be done in C, though.

Before I even begin investigating though, there is a major question I

have: How can you track the memory usage of Python? I would like to be able to track allocations by function / class, etc. I have googled and seen a bunch of threads with 1 guy asking the same exact question that I am, and no
responses, which leads me to believe it's very easy or not possible. This would be dealbreaker unfortunately. But I am optimistic that Python is well designed so there must be some solution.

You're right that memory is probably the biggest factor against Python
use, at least if you don't patch it. If you use it for production
work, I don't think there's any way you'd be able to use Python's
regular memory allocation. So, seeing that you'd have to use your own
memory allocation, you can keep track of the stuff yourself. Or you
can use a library that works on PS2 and also does what you need.
--
CARL BANKS http://www.aerojockey.com/software
"If you believe in yourself, drink your school, stay on drugs, and
don't do milk, you can get work."
-- Parody of Mr. T from a Robert Smigel Cartoon

There is a similar thing for Xbox. You can download Linux onto your Xbox,
then hook up a mouse and keyboard to the memory ports on your controller. I
can't personally attest to how well that works. Since I can't exactly recall
where I saw it, you might try Googling "Xbox Linux".

Lucas