3D apps in Python?

[Brandon J. Van Every]

I am looking for open source 3D applications written primarily in Python.
Not Python scripted, but rather, Python as the primary means of development,
dropping to C++ or C only when necessary for efficiency. Any pointers
appreciated. Surveys of leading open source 3D engines, such as Nebula and
Crystal Space, haven't yielded anything. I'm now starting to look at
non-game applications.

--
Cheers, www.indiegamedesign.com
Brandon Van Every Seattle, WA

"The pioneer is the one with the arrows in his back."
- anonymous entrepreneur

[DH]

Brandon J. Van Every wrote:

I am looking for open source 3D applications written primarily in Python.

Hi, you might search for applications built using pygame and pyopengl.
See also vpython.

[Mike C. Fletcher]

To the best of my knowledge, there's only a few where the engine itself
is written in Python:

* Alice -- I believe early versions used to be written in Python to
a Direct3D API, think they've been moving away from that in later
versions, possibly toward a Java implementation?
* OpenGLContext -- my testing/demo environment for PyOpenGL, which
is based loosely on a VRML97 scenegraph model (and includes simple
VRML97 loaders and the like).
o Provides Transform,Group,Switch,
PointLight,SpotLight,DirectionalLight, Background, Shape,
Appearance, Material, ImageTexture, TextureTransform,
IndexedFaceSet, IndexedLineSet, PointSet, Box, Sphere, Text,
FontStyle, Polyline2D, NurbsCurve2D, Contour2D,
NurbsSurface,TrimmedSurface, and NurbsCurve nodes (some with
only partial support, it should be noted)
o Has basic navigation, polygon tessellation, transparency and
selection passes
* ZOE is apparently written in Python, never played with it. Claims
to focus on wireframes and particle systems.
* VisualPython (VPython) may have some significant portion of the
code in Python, but I can't say how much (or indeed whether there
is any).

However, these engines (save maybe ZOE, about which I know next to
nothing) are focused primarily on teaching, rather than game or
application development. Particularly given your legendarily high
standards, I think you'll find that none are sufficient for your needs
wrt building practical 3D apps in Python. The collective wisdom on that
would seem to be "wrap a C/C++ engine if you need any sort of
interactive speed on a non-trivial application".

If you do find any other engines, consider adding them to the list here:
http://www.py3d.org/py3d_zwiki/Python3dLinks
(the formatting is messed up, but the information is often useful).

Take care,
Mike

Brandon J. Van Every wrote:

I am looking for open source 3D applications written primarily in Python.
Not Python scripted, but rather, Python as the primary means of development,
dropping to C++ or C only when necessary for efficiency. Any pointers
appreciated. Surveys of leading open source 3D engines, such as Nebula and
Crystal Space, haven't yielded anything. I'm now starting to look at
non-game applications.

_______________________________________
Mike C. Fletcher
Designer, VR Plumber, Coder
http://members.rogers.com/mcfletch/

[Brandon J. Van Every]

Mike C. Fletcher wrote:

However, these engines (save maybe ZOE, about which I know next to
nothing) are focused primarily on teaching, rather than game or
application development. Particularly given your legendarily high
standards, I think you'll find that none are sufficient for your needs
wrt building practical 3D apps in Python. The collective wisdom on
that would seem to be "wrap a C/C++ engine if you need any sort of
interactive speed on a non-trivial application".
Yes, that is looking like the task before me. I haven't found 3D anything -
app, engine, whatever - that is truly Python-oriented for its development.
Python is viewed by the 3D world as a scripting language, not a development
language.
If you do find any other engines, consider adding them to the list
here: http://www.py3d.org/py3d_zwiki/Python3dLinks
(the formatting is messed up, but the information is often useful).

Thanks for this link. Somehow, I have missed it in all the archive and
Google hunting.
--
Cheers, www.indiegamedesign.com
Brandon Van Every Seattle, WA

"Troll" - (n.) Anything you don't like.
Usage: "He's just a troll."

[Erik Max Francis]

"Brandon J. Van Every" wrote:

Yes, that is looking like the task before me. I haven't found 3D
anything -
app, engine, whatever - that is truly Python-oriented for its
development.
Python is viewed by the 3D world as a scripting language, not a
development
language.

Why is this the task before you? Why do you care if a project using
Python is completely Python is written in C or C++ for the bits that
have to be optimized? Why do you care how Python is viewed in the 3D
world, for whatever reason?

You've been "evaluating" Python for months and months now, though your
form of "evaluation" seems to be choosing arbitrary and useless criteria
and then demanding that people prove to you that Python meets them for
unspecified goals. You make up your mind before you start (knowing
nothing about Python in the first place), then look publicly for reasons
that match up with your preordained conclusion, annoying people who
might otherwise have helped you along the way. Hell, at one point you
were most of the way through evaluating Python for use with AI and
hadn't even considered whether Python had floating point support yet!

You keep dismissing Python but then bizarrely coming back to it. Isn't
it about time to poop or get off the pot? Pick a straightforward but
non-trivial project in Python and _do_ it. All you're doing now is
running in circles, wasting your own time, and annoying everyone you
encounter in the process.

Python is a very easy language to use and learn, and it's very powerful.
Someone who claims to be fluent in C++ should have no problem learning
the fundamentals in an afternoon, becoming proficient in a week, and
becoming blindingly productive within a month. So why haven't you?

--
__ Erik Max Francis && ma*@alcyone.com && http://www.alcyone.com/max/
/ \ San Jose, CA, USA && 37 20 N 121 53 W && &tSftDotIotE
\__/ Time is a storm in which we are all lost.
-- George Bernard Shaw

[Erik Max Francis]

"Mike C. Fletcher" wrote:

* ZOE is apparently written in Python, never played with it.
Claims
to focus on wireframes and particle systems.
ZOE is indeed all-Python, using PyOpenGL. It's designed to be very
minimal (you could certainly do non-wireframe stuff but that's not what
I use it for). It's really a very simple engine designed to allow you
to create objects that know how to display themselves, group transform a
bunch at a time, and create particle system behavior. It's minimal
enough that I can run it without hardware 3D acceleration with decent
framerates.

I created it so that I could do visualizations with some of my own
projects, and decided to release it since it's generic.
However, these engines (save maybe ZOE, about which I know next to
nothing) are focused primarily on teaching, rather than game or
application development.

It would be fair to put ZOE in the same category. It's for rapid
prototyping and simple visualization, not serious 3D application
development.

--
__ Erik Max Francis && ma*@alcyone.com && http://www.alcyone.com/max/
/ \ San Jose, CA, USA && 37 20 N 121 53 W && &tSftDotIotE
\__/ You are inspiration to my life / You are the reason why I smile
-- India Arie

[Brandon J. Van Every]

Ron Levine wrote:

On Mon, 22 Mar 2004 16:04:16 -0800, "Brandon J. Van Every"
<tr***************************@yahoo.com> wrote:

I am looking for open source 3D applications written primarily in
Python. Not Python scripted, but rather, Python as the primary means
of development, dropping to C++ or C only when necessary for
efficiency. Any pointers appreciated. ...

http://www.cgl.ucsf.edu/chimera/

Thanks for the link. It does demonstrate heavy Python usage for 3D
graphics; pity it is freely licensed only for noncommercial use.
http://www.cgl.ucsf.edu/chimera/docs/licensing.html
--
Cheers, www.indiegamedesign.com
Brandon Van Every Seattle, WA

"Trollhunt" - (n.) A searching out for persecution
of persons accused of Trolling. (c.f. witch-hunt)

[Andrew Dalke]

Brandon J. Van Every, refering to Chimera from UCSF

Thanks for the link. It does demonstrate heavy Python usage for 3D
graphics; pity it is freely licensed only for noncommercial use.
http://www.cgl.ucsf.edu/chimera/docs/licensing.html

Then in that realm see also:
VMD - C++ with embedded Tcl *and* Python, UIUC
PyMol - Python and C++, DeLano Scientific
PMV - almost all Python, Scripps

PyMol is definitely open source. The others have different
levels of souce accessibility. There's also visualization
programs like Vida from OpenEye which are commercial
w/o source code availability.

Andrew
da***@dalkescientific.com