I work for at a college where I am one of 2 full-time developers and we are looking to program a new
software package fro the campus. This is a huge project as it will include everything from registration to
business office. We are considering useing Java or Python. I for one don't like Java because I feel the
GUI is clunky. I also think that we could produce quality programs faster in Python.
The other programmer here is very concerned about dynamic typing though in Python. He feels like this
would be too much of a hinderance on us and too easy for us to make a mistake and not catch it until
runtime making debugging harder.
OK what are your guys thoughts here? How have you all overcome the lack of static typing? Is Python a
bad decision here? By the way we will be using Postgres in the back if that matters to anyone. 6 1465
Jason Tesser <JT*****@nbbc.edu> pisze: I work for at a college where I am one of 2 full-time developers and we are looking to program a new software package fro the campus. This is a huge project as it will include everything from registration to business office. We are considering useing Java or Python. I for one don't like Java because I feel the GUI is clunky. I also think that we could produce quality programs faster in Python.
The other programmer here is very concerned about dynamic typing though in Python. He feels like this would be too much of a hinderance on us and too easy for us to make a mistake and not catch it until runtime making debugging harder.
OK what are your guys thoughts here? How have you all overcome the lack of static typing? Is Python a bad decision here? By the way we will be using Postgres in the back if that matters to anyone.
If Python is good for banks[1], insurance companies[2], guys that do big
booms[3] and other significant parties, why colleges are worry?
[1]. This month I heard that some bank in Spain decided to use Pyro
(Python Remote Objects).
[2]. I work in one of them.
[3]. Lawrence Livermoore National Laboratory. You know. These guys that
made the Bikini Islands disappeared.
Dynamic typing (with all other flexibility that Python offers) is a
wonderful thing. I'm really sick when I must write anything in
ObjectPascal.
--
Jarek Zgoda
Unregistered Linux User # -1 http://www.zgoda.biz/ JID:zg***@chrome.pl http://zgoda.jogger.pl/
NP: Metallica - Helpless
In article <ma*************************************@python.or g>,
Jason Tesser <JT*****@nbbc.edu> wrote: I work for at a college where I am one of 2 full-time developers and we are looking to program a new software package fro the campus. This is a huge project as it will include everything from registration to business office. We are considering useing Java or Python. I for one don't like Java because I feel the GUI is clunky. I also think that we could produce quality programs faster in Python. cl****@lairds.com (Cameron Laird) wrote in message news:<vu************@corp.supernews.com>... 1. Why, in your mind or your teammate's, is dynamic typing a "lack"? What, pre- cisely, is the benefit of static typing? There are a number of legitimate answers. It occurs to me that, without precision on which interest you, we might be missing an opportunity to clarify "The Python Way" significantly.
One static typing advantage I've run into:
When you change the name of a variable in a class, and re-compile the
program, the compiler shows you ALL places where compilation fails.
These could be hundreds of places in dozens of files. In dynamically
typed language like Python, you have to rely on text search, which
often yields many false positives, especially for common/overloaded
names like .count, .name, .type, etc. In statically-typed languages,
making name changes is not very painful, since the compiler will tell
you where exactly you need to follow up with the changes. In
dynamically typed language, you will have to manually write unit test
codes to ensure name consistency.
I am sure Python people have come up with strategies to deal with this
problem. That's what I'd like to hear. (Unit test is one route.) But
this is one place where I've found statically-typed compilers useful.
I mean, I have seen this discussion many times, but most responses
from Python users have not been realistic (often simply shrugging off
the problem and saying something like "compilers don't detect all the
bugs, blah blah blah".) I would like to hear more real-life experience
rather than academic conjectures.
regards,
Hung Jung
HJL> One static typing advantage I've run into:
HJL> When you change the name of a variable in a class, and re-compile
HJL> the program, the compiler shows you ALL places where compilation
HJL> fails. These could be hundreds of places in dozens of files.
...
HJL> I am sure Python people have come up with strategies to deal with
HJL> this problem. That's what I'd like to hear. (Unit test is one
As others have pointed out, pychecker is good at catching these sorts of
problems.
HJL> I would like to hear more real-life experience rather than academic
HJL> conjectures.
I've used pychecker in real-life to detect these sorts of problems, in other
peoples' code no less, even though I have a (non-academic) position at
Northwestern University. ;-)
Skip
"Hung Jung Lu" <hu********@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:8e**************************@posting.google.c om... cl****@lairds.com (Cameron Laird) wrote in message
news:<vu************@corp.supernews.com>... 1. Why, in your mind or your teammate's, is dynamic typing a "lack"? What, pre- cisely, is the benefit of static typing? There are a number of legitimate answers. It occurs to me that, without precision on which interest you, we might be missing an opportunity to clarify "The Python Way" significantly.
One static typing advantage I've run into:
When you change the name of a variable in a class, and re-compile the program, the compiler shows you ALL places where compilation fails. These could be hundreds of places in dozens of files. In dynamically typed language like Python, you have to rely on text search, which often yields many false positives, especially for common/overloaded names like .count, .name, .type, etc. In statically-typed languages, making name changes is not very painful, since the compiler will tell you where exactly you need to follow up with the changes. In dynamically typed language, you will have to manually write unit test codes to ensure name consistency.
I am sure Python people have come up with strategies to deal with this problem. That's what I'd like to hear. (Unit test is one route.) But this is one place where I've found statically-typed compilers useful. I mean, I have seen this discussion many times, but most responses from Python users have not been realistic (often simply shrugging off the problem and saying something like "compilers don't detect all the bugs, blah blah blah".) I would like to hear more real-life experience rather than academic conjectures.
The OP said they would be using Test Driven Development. In TDD,
you write maybe a half dozen lines before running your test suite. If
it ran last time, and it didn't run this time, then you have maybe a
half dozen lines to check. Lots of people regard the 'undo' command
as a great debugger in this case.
Of course, if you write hundreds of lines before doing a compile,
then you will need all the help you can get.
John Roth regards,
Hung Jung
Hung Jung Lu <hu********@yahoo.com> wrote: cl****@lairds.com (Cameron Laird) wrote in message news:<vu************@corp.supernews.com>... 1. Why, in your mind or your teammate's, is dynamic typing a "lack"? What, pre- cisely, is the benefit of static typing? There are a number of legitimate answers. It occurs to me that, without precision on which interest you, we might be missing an opportunity to clarify "The Python Way" significantly.
One static typing advantage I've run into:
When you change the name of a variable in a class, and re-compile the program, the compiler shows you ALL places where compilation fails. These could be hundreds of places in dozens of files. In dynamically typed language like Python, you have to rely on text search, which often yields many false positives, especially for common/overloaded names like .count, .name, .type, etc. In statically-typed languages, making name changes is not very painful, since the compiler will tell you where exactly you need to follow up with the changes. In dynamically typed language, you will have to manually write unit test codes to ensure name consistency.
I am sure Python people have come up with strategies to deal with this problem. That's what I'd like to hear. (Unit test is one route.) But this is one place where I've found statically-typed compilers useful. I mean, I have seen this discussion many times, but most responses from Python users have not been realistic (often simply shrugging off the problem and saying something like "compilers don't detect all the bugs, blah blah blah".) I would like to hear more real-life experience rather than academic conjectures.
That sounds like exactly the sort of problem that the Bicycle Repair Man
project ( http://sourceforge.net/projects/bicyclerepair/) is intended to
solve. It's a refactoring browser for Python code.
Caveat: I've not actually used Bicycle Repair Man myself, so I don't
know if there are any hidden gotchas. But I've heard very good things
about it from other people.
The name "Bicycle Repair Man", BTW, is a reference to a Monty Python
skit involving a superhero whose special power was repairing bicycles.
--
Robin Munn rm***@pobox.com This thread has been closed and replies have been disabled. Please start a new discussion. Similar topics
by: Jason Tesser |
last post by:
I work for at a college where I am one of 2 full-time
developers and we are looking to program a new
software package fro the campus. This is a huge
project as it will include everything from...
|
by: Neuruss |
last post by:
I've been reading an article published in E-Week entitled "Microsoft
Lures Open-Source Programmer", which contains a definition for dynamic
languages as follows:
"Dynamic programming languages...
|
by: bearophileHUGS |
last post by:
Adding Optional Static Typing to Python looks like a quite complex
thing, but useful too:
http://www.artima.com/weblogs/viewpost.jsp?thread=85551
I have just a couple of notes:
Boo...
|
by: Bob Alston |
last post by:
In 2002, "GrayJay" posted the following code:
I did this in a jazz record catalogue to find composers -
On a form "frmComposers"
Create a text box - txtFindComposer, and add the following sub...
|
by: Gibby Koldenhof |
last post by:
Hiya,
Terrible subject but I haven't got a better term at the moment.
I've been building up my own library of functionality (all nice conforming
ISO C) for over 6 years and decided to adopt a...
|
by: Nate |
last post by:
Good Morning All,
What we have is a dynamic business object that has varying numbers and types
of properties. What it models is a generic saleable product. Not all
products have the same...
|
by: J. Peng |
last post by:
Python's variable is dynamic type,is it?
But why this can't work?
Traceback (most recent call last):
File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
TypeError: unsupported operand type(s) for +: 'int' and 'str'
...
|
by: azrael |
last post by:
Hy guys,
A friend of mine i a proud PERL developer which always keeps making
jokes on python's cost.
Please give me any arguments to cut him down about his commnets
like :"keep programing i...
|
by: bearophileHUGS |
last post by:
I often use Python to write small programs, in the range of 50-500
lines of code. For example to process some bioinformatics data,
perform some data munging, to apply a randomized optimization...
|
by: Charles Arthur |
last post by:
How do i turn on java script on a villaon, callus and itel keypad mobile phone
|
by: BarryA |
last post by:
What are the essential steps and strategies outlined in the Data Structures and Algorithms (DSA) roadmap for aspiring data scientists? How can individuals effectively utilize this roadmap to progress...
|
by: nemocccc |
last post by:
hello, everyone, I want to develop a software for my android phone for daily needs, any suggestions?
|
by: Sonnysonu |
last post by:
This is the data of csv file
1 2 3
1 2 3
1 2 3
1 2 3
2 3
2 3
3
the lengths should be different i have to store the data by column-wise with in the specific length.
suppose the i have to...
|
by: Hystou |
last post by:
There are some requirements for setting up RAID:
1. The motherboard and BIOS support RAID configuration.
2. The motherboard has 2 or more available SATA protocol SSD/HDD slots (including MSATA, M.2...
|
by: Hystou |
last post by:
Most computers default to English, but sometimes we require a different language, especially when relocating. Forgot to request a specific language before your computer shipped? No problem! You can...
|
by: jinu1996 |
last post by:
In today's digital age, having a compelling online presence is paramount for businesses aiming to thrive in a competitive landscape. At the heart of this digital strategy lies an intricately woven...
|
by: Hystou |
last post by:
Overview:
Windows 11 and 10 have less user interface control over operating system update behaviour than previous versions of Windows. In Windows 11 and 10, there is no way to turn off the Windows...
|
by: tracyyun |
last post by:
Dear forum friends,
With the development of smart home technology, a variety of wireless communication protocols have appeared on the market, such as Zigbee, Z-Wave, Wi-Fi, Bluetooth, etc. Each...
| |