Matrix - Metaphors, Analogies and the REAL

[3seas]

If you are not interested, then don't bitch, its a short message.

http://www.matrixcommunity.org/cgi-b...c;f=8;t=000918

I don't know if that link got broken.

--
3 S.E.A.S -- Virtual Interaction Configuration (VIC)
Changing how we preceive and use computers
email @ translate not to net, remove capitol letters, one .
web @ http://threeseas.net

[Peter Hansen]

3seas wrote:

If you are not interested, then don't bitch, its a short message.
Then don't bitch about my reply, either...
http://www.matrixcommunity.org/cgi-b...c;f=8;t=000918

I don't know if that link got broken.

The word "Python" appears nowhere on that page, according to a simple
search, so it seems likely this is an off-topic post, in addition
to being rather cryptic.

[Maxim Khesin]

> The word "Python" appears nowhere on that page, according to a simple

search, so it seems likely this is an off-topic post, in addition
to being rather cryptic.

A troll, perhaps?

[Scott Chapman]

On Monday 10 November 2003 10:05, 3seas wrote:

If you are not interested, then don't bitch, its a short message.

http://www.matrixcommunity.org/cgi-b...bb=get_topic;f
=8;t=000918

I don't know if that link got broken.

--
3 S.E.A.S -- Virtual Interaction Configuration (VIC)
Changing how we preceive and use computers
email @ translate not to net, remove capitol letters, one .
web @ http://threeseas.net

I just did a whois on the threeseas.net domain and got this back.
I don't know if it's of interest to anyone or not. It's the same guy.

This email is "short" so according to his criteria, that should make it
Ok, right, regardless of content being on-topic, etc?

I really don't like email translations. Here's the untranslated version:
3s***@threeseas.net

I'm inclined to "bitch". I don't appreciate this type of junk mail and
especially this guy's attitude.

Domain name: THREESEAS.NET

Administrative Contact:
Rue, Timothy ti****@mindspring.com
1869-4 Hudson Crossing Rd.
Tucker, GA 30084
US
404-728-1006

[Peter Hansen]

Maxim Khesin wrote:

The word "Python" appears nowhere on that page, according to a simple
search, so it seems likely this is an off-topic post, in addition
to being rather cryptic.

A troll, perhaps?

Ah, you're quite right, as Scott has discovered. Sort of. Not exactly
a troll this time, as he's not following typical trollish behaviour patterns,
but he's still trying desperately to gain some support for his inexplicable
ideas.

To his credit, this time he just posted an off-topic link, not another
lengthy description of the autocoder.

I suppose with the release of Matrix 2.5, a few posts from the Ruebot
were inevitable...

-Peter

[3seas]

Its in python code

http://threeseas.net/vic/vic/

--
3 S.E.A.S -- Virtual Interaction Configuration (VIC)
Changing how we preceive and use computers
email @ translate not to net, remove capitol letters, one .
web @ http://threeseas.net

[Maxim Khesin]

> Rue, Timothy ti****@mindspring.com
Are you suggesting we should all send him a 'short' email? Yeah? good
idea! Maybe I will get my computer to do that for me :)

[3seas]

Scott Chapman wrote:

On Monday 10 November 2003 10:05, 3seas wrote:

If you are not interested, then don't bitch, its a short message.

http://www.matrixcommunity.org/cgi-b...c;f-8;t=000918
I don't know if that link got broken.

--
3 S.E.A.S -- Virtual Interaction Configuration (VIC)
Changing how we preceive and use computers
email @ translate not to net, remove capitol letters, one .
web @ http://threeseas.net

I just did a whois on the threeseas.net domain and got this back.
I don't know if it's of interest to anyone or not. It's the same guy.

This email is "short" so according to his criteria, that should make it
Ok, right, regardless of content being on-topic, etc?

I really don't like email translations. Here's the untranslated version:

You knowingly and intentionaly put an email address in a position of beng
abused by the viral MS update spam

You are guilty of spaming an email address that was protected.

--
3 S.E.A.S -- Virtual Interaction Configuration (VIC)
Changing how we preceive and use computers
email @ translate not to net, remove capitol letters, one .
web @ http://threeseas.net

[Klaus Alexander Seistrup]

3seas wrote:

You are guilty of spaming an email address that was protected.
It was a short message, so don't bitch!
// Klaus

--<> unselfish actions pay back better

[3seas]

Maxim Khesin wrote:

Rue, Timothy timrue@mindspring......com

Are you suggesting we should all send him a 'short' email? Yeah? good
idea! Maybe I will get my computer to do that for me :)

That was an intentional act of spamming a protected email box.
And you know it

the project is in python code
http://freshmeat.net/projects/victor1/

--
3 S.E.A.S -- Virtual Interaction Configuration (VIC)
Changing how we preceive and use computers
email @ translate not to net, remove capitol letters, one .
web @ http://threeseas.net

[Peter Hansen]

3seas wrote:

Its in python code

http://threeseas.net/vic/vic/

And this relates to your original post... how?

[3seas]

Peter Hansen wrote:

3seas wrote:

Its in python code

http://threeseas.net/vic/vic/

And this relates to your original post... how?

are you trying to rationalize, justify the act of spamming Scott or anyone
else did?

Reading the responses makes it clear some people posting to the thread know
the project is being done in python.

there is this concept called reading and another of following links.

perhaps I shoudl have been more direct, but its not like I'm not known in
the news group. But still non of it is an excuse to commit acts of spam
against me.

--
3 S.E.A.S -- Virtual Interaction Configuration (VIC)
Changing how we preceive and use computers
email @ translate not to net, remove capitol letters, one .
web @ http://threeseas.net

[Peter Hansen]

3seas wrote:

the project is in python code
http://freshmeat.net/projects/victor1/

That much is true. I just downloaded and perused the latest set
of code from that site and attempted to determine once again what
it is intended to do and why Timothy has such trouble explaining
it (because his inability to get the idea across fascinates me:
either the idea has no merit but is consuming an ungodly amount of
someone's time, or both the idea and Tim are brilliant yet he
is amazingly incapable of explaining it in terms we mortals can
understand. Either way it's interesting. No, I'm not interested
in the potential middle ground here: it's uninteresting. ;-) )

This time, unlike the last time I checked a year or two ago, there
_is_ actually Python code present. Quite a bit of it, Rexx no more...

Interpreting the Python code, then, and building on Tim's past attempts
at explaining, I believe that the basic idea is to implement a
standard way of performing nine abstract operations which Tim feels
are fundamental to all computing. Or all something... maybe life
itself. (I'm onclear on the extent of his belief in this area.)

What it actually appears to me has happened, however, is that he
has partially implemented a system which, when complete, would
operate at roughly the level of A-A-P or Scons, but would do so in
a more roundabout and less usable manner. (Using the term "usable"
in the technical sense of ergonomics and usability.) I can't see
any evidence of anything practical that has been developed using the
existing stuff, nor any hard examples (with sequences of actual
commands) which would demonstrate any potential beyond this.

I can't see anything there which could not be done more easily and
succinctly, for the most part, with a few simple lines of Python.
Python is, after all, a general-purpose programming language, so surely
it can be used to solve the task in the first place. The VIC code
appears on the path to provided a bunch of library routines to support
certain operations, but even at this point it appears a number of them
just wrap existing library routines, and the others are fairly simplistic
things such as I would expect to find in A-A-P or Scons or any other
make/build tool like that.

Maybe that's not the point: maybe the point is that the standardization
will make such tasks accessible to non-programmers. If that's the
case, I suppose who can say? Are there past efforts similar to this
which have not succeeded? It's hard to argue when the project has still
not delivered anything workable, or good use cases to support the goals.

In my opinion, but certainly speaking as I can only from the point of
view of an experienced programmer, learning to use Python itself would
be far more productive in any time frame than learning the (unfinished)
VIC commands and then attempting to warp each problem into a form which
could then be attacked with the "nine commands which are at the heart of
all things" (not a quote from Tim, just my own phrasing).

I think the fact that Tim has successfully learned Python enough to
implement what he has implemented, yet still has not got anything practical
out of the VIC concept itself (as far as I can tell) is quite telling.

Clearly Python is the more practical, easy to learn, and valuable of the two.
And it's easy to understand what it is.

-Peter

[Scott Chapman]

On Monday 10 November 2003 12:30, 3seas wrote:

Its in python code

http://threeseas.net/vic/vic/

--
3 S.E.A.S -- Virtual Interaction Configuration (VIC)
Changing how we preceive and use computers
email @ translate not to net, remove capitol letters, one .
web @ http://threeseas.net

If it's a Python-related announcement, it should go on Python Announce.

If it's a python issue, it should go here.

If it's a Matrix issue, it should not go here.

Your email was not a Python-related announcement. The blog entry it
points to was not Python-related. There was no Python-related content
in your email. I think that adds up to off-topic. This would have
probably gone mostly unnoticed except for your attitude.

If everyone posted their latest advertisement for some pet web site that
happened to be written in python, we'd be flooded with CLEARLY
OFF-TOPIC posts regarding CLEARLY OFF-TOPIC subject matter.

Post your pet web site posts where they are on-topic.

Finally, if you _are_ going to post off-topic and you've gotten
"bitched" at in the past, please don't respond with a bad attitude post
like the one that started this thread. Do you really think such
attitudes will be of any value in furthering your ends in any way? Why
not learn from your mistakes?

Post your pet web site posts in an appropriate manner.

You don't owe the list any further details about the nature of the web
site. I think you owe the list an apology and a different pattern of
behavior in the future.

You joined this list as an adult understanding that it exists with
certain criteria which you, being a member of the list, are supposed to
honor. Police yourself so that the list doesn't have to. We have work
to do.

' Hoping you get smarter as you get older, not just older.

Scott

[Peter Hansen]

3seas wrote:

Peter Hansen wrote:

3seas wrote:

Its in python code

http://threeseas.net/vic/vic/
And this relates to your original post... how?

are you trying to rationalize, justify the act of spamming Scott or anyone
else did?

None of the above. I was trying to understand the link between your
original post, which was merely a link to your own weblog or some kind
of BBS or something, and the VIC project which as you say is now in Python.
Reading the responses makes it clear some people posting to the thread know
the project is being done in python.
Only after you pointed it out. And "the project" was not mentioned in
your original post, and neither was Python. I was attempting to figure
out the connection, and still am.

Nix that: I don't care any more, since obviously there is at least in your
mind some kind of link, and now that we are clearly talking about the VIC,
the original post is irrelevant.
there is this concept called reading and another of following links.
I did both, and still found no link (no pun intended).
perhaps I shoudl have been more direct, but its not like I'm not known in
the news group.
Your original post did not identify you. We're not psychic.
But still non of it is an excuse to commit acts of spam against me.

I won't argue that point, except to ask if your email address which
you claim was "protected" was ever posted to a public site or newsgroup
ever in the past. If it was, you had no protection and have no case
against Scott. I suspect both the mindspring and the threeseas addresses
have appeared on the net repeatedly.

-Peter

[3seas]

Scott Chapman wrote:

On Monday 10 November 2003 12:30, 3seas wrote:

Its in python code

http://threeseas.net/vic/vic/

--
3 S.E.A.S -- Virtual Interaction Configuration (VIC)
Changing how we preceive and use computers
email @ translate not to net, remove capitol letters, one .
web @ http://threeseas.net

If it's a Python-related announcement, it should go on Python Announce.

If it's a python issue, it should go here.

If it's a Matrix issue, it should not go here.

Your email was not a Python-related announcement. The blog entry it
points to was not Python-related. There was no Python-related content
in your email. I think that adds up to off-topic. This would have
probably gone mostly unnoticed except for your attitude.

If everyone posted their latest advertisement for some pet web site that
happened to be written in python, we'd be flooded with CLEARLY
OFF-TOPIC posts regarding CLEARLY OFF-TOPIC subject matter.

Post your pet web site posts where they are on-topic.

Finally, if you _are_ going to post off-topic and you've gotten
"bitched" at in the past, please don't respond with a bad attitude post
like the one that started this thread. Do you really think such
attitudes will be of any value in furthering your ends in any way? Why
not learn from your mistakes?

Post your pet web site posts in an appropriate manner.

You don't owe the list any further details about the nature of the web
site. I think you owe the list an apology and a different pattern of
behavior in the future.

You joined this list as an adult understanding that it exists with
certain criteria which you, being a member of the list, are supposed to
honor. Police yourself so that the list doesn't have to. We have work
to do.

' Hoping you get smarter as you get older, not just older.

Scott

and all of that is supposed to justify acts of spaming not just one but two
of my email boxes.... in essence causing more unnecessary traffic to go
thru the net.....?

hmmmm

How many mesages go thur this newsgroup and of that many, how many do you
read, how many do you ignore?

--
3 S.E.A.S -- Virtual Interaction Configuration (VIC)
Changing how we preceive and use computers
email @ translate not to net, remove capitol letters, one .
web @ http://threeseas.net

[Peter Hansen]

Scott Chapman wrote:

If everyone posted their latest advertisement for some pet web site that
happened to be written in python, we'd be flooded with CLEARLY
OFF-TOPIC posts regarding CLEARLY OFF-TOPIC subject matter.

At this point, it's unclear whether the web site itself is written in
Python. I think the web site is just where Tim posts his Matrix theories,
and has no connection to Python.

Ah, wait... there's the connection, distant though it is. In some of the
posts in that weblog/BBS, Tim talks again about his infamous "VIC" project,
which as he points out is implemented in Python now.

One more of life's great mysteries solved...

-Peter

[3seas]

Peter Hansen wrote:

3seas wrote:

the project is in python code
http://freshmeat.net/projects/victor1/

Actually the most up to date code is not teh archive but what you get by
doing a wget on threeseas.net/vic/ excluding the .zip files.
But then that might be what you did.

As to the code: I wrote the IQ and ID command (a small part by another, who
I sponsored for about a month to work on AROS during last summer. That
small part we integrated into IQ to create teh ID command which also has a
user file for adding tests for ID to use.)

As to the Rest, that was produce by another who I hired thru rentacoder.com
to produce from the specifications I wrote.

There is still one command to write KE and the integration IQ and ID into
the VIC. Though I do believe it is useful to have these two able to
function also as stand alones.

I do however plan to replace the html based help file for the AI,PK,OI,and
SF commands with their IQ parsed on the fly help file. As I believe I can
do this regardless of my OOP understanding level.

As to Python OOP I am not that learned on it such that I can yet go thru the
code I hired written to correct errors and make overall easier to use
modifications. I did however markup all of the code to be IQ parseable and
created a source.iq file that IQ can process to pares ALL the source.

I believe the command would be: python ./IQ-ID/iq.py -k source.iq . . (on
linux) from the directory where the main.py (main source) is.

this while show you all the unique keys contained in the source.
but using pattern matching arguements and without the -k option you can
output the contents of keys that match.

The full VIC will be able to set in motion dynamic automations, from simple
to complex of any number of automation types, from simple user defined
automations to more complex code generation AND compiling And Excution of
generated code.

Autocoding is just one thing a general automation tool can do and for such
to be possible the underlying code fragnment database or vocabulary must be
built. MS is going a step further by teh whole Common Language
Infrastructure bit by unifying many programming languages thru Common
Intermediate Language.

I have no doubt there have been and continue to be arguements against this
or that part of the VIC but no where will you find the integrated
configuration of all the parts in a manner that provides such versatility
as the VIC will. The command line interface is but just the like in teh
history of computing, before the GUI came along. I know how to use a point
and click interface to fully access the VIC, but that is down teh road and
hopefully by the time we get there there will be more of a standard cross
platform GUI library to use.

Its not the objective to re-invent anything but rather to make the use and
reuse of many things possible, including the dynamic reuse of code
fragments to generate more complex code. And its not code predjuice either
though to generate python thru it would require an indentation loop to keep
track of proper indentation.

I have done the research, wrote achievable specifications and code, put
money into it paying a coder to write python code for it etc.... And I have
even placed it under the GPL.

As to those who have said to me in the past that my communication suck, It
sure did seem to suck when I was communicating to a code writer....

Spamming my mailboxes..... that is just not right and really does show the
nastiness of some playing king of the hill in this newsgroup. and if such
acts are going to create a grading curve, it should be clear there will be
lessor acts of negitivity towards me or the project than that of trashing
out my mailbozes with absolutely unrelated viral spam.

--
3 S.E.A.S -- Virtual Interaction Configuration (VIC)
Changing how we preceive and use computers
email @ translate not to net, remove capitol letters, one .
web @ http://threeseas.net

[Maxim Khesin]

That was an intentional act of spamming a protected email box.
And you know it
Ok, that 'would be' an act of spam, but don't worry, I was just kidding.
the project is in python code
http://freshmeat.net/projects/victor1/

That's what you should have said in the 1st place!

[Scott Chapman]

On Monday 10 November 2003 14:10, 3seas wrote:

Scott Chapman wrote:

' Hoping you get smarter as you get older, not just older.

Scott

and all of that is supposed to justify acts of spaming not just one
but two of my email boxes.... in essence causing more unnecessary
traffic to go thru the net.....?

hmmmm

How many mesages go thur this newsgroup and of that many, how many do
you read, how many do you ignore?

I will not contribute further to this off-topic thread on the list
except to say that you still appear to be exhibiting similar attitudes
to one in your original post. You're not getting smarter as you get
older, just older. Therefore, telling you to grow up would do no good.

I did not send my previous message as any kind of justification. Read
it again and get smarter. Your post was off-topic and you have some
serious attitude problems.

If you don't get smarter as you get older then you can expect similar
repercussions to future actions of the same sort. Someone once said,
"It is a form of insanity to do things the way we've always done them
and expect that we will get different results".

Scott

[3seas]

3seas wrote:

As to those who have said to me in the past that my communication suck, It
sure did seem to suck when I was communicating to a code writer....

NOT!!!

--
3 S.E.A.S -- Virtual Interaction Configuration (VIC)
Changing how we preceive and use computers
email @ translate not to net, remove capitol letters, one .
web @ http://threeseas.net

[Peter Hansen]

3seas wrote:

Peter Hansen wrote: [Tim snipped everything I wrote and responded to none of it.]
Actually the most up to date code is not teh archive but what you get by
doing a wget on threeseas.net/vic/ excluding the .zip files.
But then that might be what you did.
No, but thanks for the pointer. I don't feel there's any point in my
investigating further at this time, however, as you've said nothing to
address my points -- which increases my confidence in the accuracy of my
analysis.
The full VIC will be able to set in motion dynamic automations, from simple
to complex of any number of automation types, from simple user defined
automations to more complex code generation AND compiling And Excution of
generated code.
That would be much fun to see... what is there at this point is so
far from being able to do anything resembling code generation or
compilation that I doubt anyone but you can imagine what it is all about.
I have no doubt there have been and continue to be arguements against this
or that part of the VIC but no where will you find the integrated
configuration of all the parts in a manner that provides such versatility
as the VIC will.
If we can't find it, maybe we just don't understand what we're looking for yet.
I believe I've got a decent understand, to the extent possible, of what you
imagine you are working on, and I believe I know of a variety of viable --
and usable! -- alternatives, such as Scons and A-A-P, or even just make in
all its primitive glory, possibly combined with a little Python code.
Its not the objective to re-invent anything but rather to make the use and
reuse of many things possible, including the dynamic reuse of code
fragments to generate more complex code.

Sounds a little vague, and to the extent that I can understand the least
aspect of it, it sounds no different from what any decent build tool,
combined with a general-purpose language like Python, could do.

Anyway, my analysis stands.

-Peter

[3seas]

Maxim Khesin wrote:

That was an intentional act of spamming a protected email box.
And you know it

Ok, that 'would be' an act of spam, but don't worry, I was just kidding.

Now convince my mindspring mailbox of that....

I have received over 400 ms viral spams in 10 days from one error I made
in using linux news/mail readers -- learing setup --- to post one single
mesage to usenet w/o spam protection.

you just posted a non protected email address of mine intentionally to
usenet. And email address that you had to manually put effort inte getting,
aa that address did not exist in not exist in any post I made in this
thread.

you were not kidding. Or perhaps you want to claim ignorance?
How does that work? intentional act claimed as being ignorant of?
its not like this viral ms update spam is new or something.

Perhaps there is a phantom post that you were responding to in this thread
that you can blame you were quoting?

One thing is for sure, there are far more non-python related messages in
this thread then what appeared on the surface to be a single non-python
related thread.... interesting how quickly I was identified as a poster
from the past having a python project,in contridiction of that.

the project is in python code
http://freshmeat.net/projects/victor1/

That's what you should have said in the 1st place!

--
3 S.E.A.S -- Virtual Interaction Configuration (VIC)
Changing how we preceive and use computers
email @ translate not to net, remove capitol letters, one .
web @ http://threeseas.net

[3seas]

Peter Hansen wrote:

3seas wrote:

Peter Hansen wrote:

[Tim snipped everything I wrote and responded to none of it.]

Actually the most up to date code is not teh archive but what you get by
doing a wget on threeseas.net/vic/ excluding the .zip files.
But then that might be what you did.

No, but thanks for the pointer. I don't feel there's any point in my
investigating further at this time, however, as you've said nothing to
address my points -- which increases my confidence in the accuracy of my
analysis.

analysis???

I'm supprised you even responed given your statement of no longer being
interested, in another branching post line off the top of the thread, prior
to this one

Somewhere there is a message about argueing on usenet being like competing
in the special olympics. Even if you win, your are still retarded (though I
recognize the error of it, handicap would be more correct.)

I don't have to dodge bullets.... everyone watching the thread can see for
themselves... who all participated in a spam attack.

--
3 S.E.A.S -- Virtual Interaction Configuration (VIC)
Changing how we preceive and use computers
email @ translate not to net, remove capitol letters, one .
web @ http://threeseas.net

[John Burns]

On Mon, 10 Nov 2003 18:05:17 GMT, 3seas wrote:

If you are not interested, then don't bitch, its a short message.

But it's still Off Topic Tim.

[RaYzor]

"3seas" <3s****@Tthreeseas.DOT.not> wrote in message
news:xr******************@newsread2.news.atl.earth link.net...

If you are not interested, then don't bitch, its a short message.

http://www.matrixcommunity.org/cgi-b...c;f=8;t=000918
I don't know if that link got broken.

People who think the Matrix series of films are real in any way are amongst
the saddest people on Earth.

Its OK to like a movie, sure. Even being a super-fan is allright. I like
Star Wars series a lot, I have 4 or 5 Star Wars games, I own all the movies.
But I don't wander into AMIGA (or for that matter, ANY) newsgroups and start
theorizing on how I can use the Dark Side of the Force ... in random,
meaningless spurts of convulted text. This is because I know its just a
movie.

You should really try to get out more.

The Matrix series of movies are just movies. And not even GOOD movies. No
reality to them at all. Seek help if you think otherwise.

RaYzor

[Coyote Seven]

RaYzor wrote:

Its OK to like a movie, sure. Even being a super-fan is allright. I like
Star Wars series a lot, I have 4 or 5 Star Wars games, I own all the movies.
But I don't wander into AMIGA (or for that matter, ANY) newsgroups and start
theorizing on how I can use the Dark Side of the Force ... in random,
meaningless spurts of convulted text. This is because I know its just a
movie.

I find your lack of faith disturbing.

[Ben Finney]

On Mon, 10 Nov 2003 18:05:17 GMT, 3seas wrote:

If you are not interested, then don't bitch, its a short message.

If you know it's off-topic and has a better newsgroup (rec.movies.*),
then don't post, it's an annoying practice.

--
\ "I was once walking through the forest alone and a tree fell |
`\ right in front of me, and I didn't hear it." -- Steven Wright |
_o__) |
Ben Finney <http://bignose.squidly.org/>

[Gerhard Häring]

Coyote Seven wrote:

RaYzor wrote:

Its OK to like a movie, sure. Even being a super-fan is allright.
I like Star Wars series a lot, I have 4 or 5 Star Wars games, I own
all the movies. But I don't wander into AMIGA (or for that matter,
ANY) newsgroups and start theorizing on how I can use the Dark Side
of the Force ... in random, meaningless spurts of convulted text.
This is because I know its just a movie.

I find your lack of faith disturbing.

Obviously, (s)he's not ready yet to be freed from the matrix.

-- Gerhard

[Jay O'Connor]

On Tue, 11 Nov 2003 12:20:58 GMT, "RaYzor"
<[e-mail]> wrote:

"3seas" <3s****@Tthreeseas.DOT.not> wrote in message
news:xr******************@newsread2.news.atl.eart hlink.net...

If you are not interested, then don't bitch, its a short message.

http://www.matrixcommunity.org/cgi-b...c;f=8;t=000918

I don't know if that link got broken.

People who think the Matrix series of films are real in any way are amongst
the saddest people on Earth.

Imagine if it was "Dark City"

[3seas]

Gerhard Häring wrote:

Obviously, (s)he's not ready yet to be freed from the matrix.

-- Gerhard

There is another branch to this thread where the python code is talked
about, should you be interested in that or helping with the project.

I do have pet trolls and recommend you do not feed them.
--
3 S.E.A.S -- Virtual Interaction Configuration (VIC)
Changing how we preceive and use computers
email @ translate not to net, remove capitol letters, one .
web @ http://threeseas.net

[John Burns]

On Tue, 11 Nov 2003 12:30:47 GMT, Coyote Seven wrote:

RaYzor wrote:

Its OK to like a movie, sure. Even being a super-fan is allright. I like
Star Wars series a lot, I have 4 or 5 Star Wars games, I own all the movies.
But I don't wander into AMIGA (or for that matter, ANY) newsgroups and start
theorizing on how I can use the Dark Side of the Force ... in random,
meaningless spurts of convulted text. This is because I know its just a
movie.

I find your lack of faith disturbing.

Nah, it is those with faith who are disturbing (or maybe disturbed :) ) since
they are willing to forego any evidence or logic to the contrary in defence of
and to keep their "faith".

[Gonçalo Rodrigues]

On 13 Nov 2003 06:17:33 +0100, "John Burns"
<jo***@grizo.free-onlineNOJUNK.co.uk> wrote:

On Tue, 11 Nov 2003 12:30:47 GMT, Coyote Seven wrote:

RaYzor wrote:

> Its OK to like a movie, sure. Even being a super-fan is allright. I like
> Star Wars series a lot, I have 4 or 5 Star Wars games, I own all the movies.
> But I don't wander into AMIGA (or for that matter, ANY) newsgroups and start
> theorizing on how I can use the Dark Side of the Force ... in random,
> meaningless spurts of convulted text. This is because I know its just a
> movie.

I find your lack of faith disturbing.

Nah, it is those with faith who are disturbing (or maybe disturbed :) ) since
they are willing to forego any evidence or logic to the contrary in defence of
and to keep their "faith".

As one of those with faith, and by your definition possibly disturbed,
I find it very amusing that you do not read your own words. Maybe it
takes faith to apprehend certain ironies. Or be disturbed.

And I'm out of this thread.

With my best regards,
G. Rodrigues

[John Burns]

On Thu, 13 Nov 2003 12:09:28 +0000, Gonçalo Rodrigues wrote:

On 13 Nov 2003 06:17:33 +0100, "John Burns"
<jo***@grizo.free-onlineNOJUNK.co.uk> wrote:

On Tue, 11 Nov 2003 12:30:47 GMT, Coyote Seven wrote:

RaYzor wrote:
> Its OK to like a movie, sure. Even being a super-fan is allright. I like
> Star Wars series a lot, I have 4 or 5 Star Wars games, I own all the movies.
> But I don't wander into AMIGA (or for that matter, ANY) newsgroups and start
> theorizing on how I can use the Dark Side of the Force ... in random,
> meaningless spurts of convulted text. This is because I know its just a
> movie.

I find your lack of faith disturbing.
Nah, it is those with faith who are disturbing (or maybe disturbed :) ) since
they are willing to forego any evidence or logic to the contrary in defence of
and to keep their "faith".

As one of those with faith, and by your definition possibly disturbed, I
find it very amusing that you do not read your own words. Maybe it takes
faith to apprehend certain ironies. Or be disturbed.

I take it you meant comprehend not apprehend and to an extent I'd agree but it
is more likely (and more usual) for faith to be used as an excuse not to accept
the facts which belie one's beliefs not as an aid to understanding. In regard to
the Matrix the only person qualified to speak of its analogies and metaphorical
content is its writer, all others who make such comment are doing so without any
real authority. There are numerous examples of song and film which have had such
"discussion" by fans only for the original author to later state that he had
intended no such meaning. They still believe though and that's the really sad
part.

Anyway I don't really care if you wish to believe or not that wasn't what I
objected to but rather to Tim posting OT yet again. He is just a pest on every
group which he has infected with his presence.
And I'm out of this thread.

Bye

[3seas]

John Burns wrote:

On Thu, 13 Nov 2003 12:09:28 +0000, Gonçalo Rodrigues wrote:

[snip]

And I'm out of this thread.

Bye

I'll feed you pet troll John, I got plenty more where this came from:

The metaphor of this attack on me is one of Agents/Smiths, And I have had
plenty of them. And more than just such attacks, but at one point in time
mindspring was receiving alot of complaint about me, so they investigated,
then got in contact with me to tell me what was going on. They said
"Apparently there are those who simply do not like you presence anywhere on
the internet."

In time more complaints happened, all false but this time someone hacked the
mindspring ticketing bot to make it look like it was me complaining about
me. Only the hacker didn't do a good enough job to keep Mindspring from
determing it wasn't me, but only well enough to hide who they were.
Mindspring then dropped their blue ribbon free speech support and ban me
from posting to usenet. Not because of anything I did, but because they
were spending more on investigating false complaints against me than I was
paying them per month.

And that is not all, there have been well known people outright lie about
me, behind my back, to others and I even understand the CEO of Amiga has
said in public untrue things about me.

As to the links above they are statements made by others, what would be at
best, hearsay, at worse libel. And anyone should be able to see thru the
FAQ as the psychologist, if there really was one, could lose his license to
practice in this case.

Kirk S. no longer supports the FAQ that was fabricated, only usenet doesn't
allow changing things, and that's actually ok because it established
things.

In this case what it establishes is that I am in fact , KNOWN and was know
of at such a time line the Wachowskis would most certainly have had access
to me, my posts on usenet and my web pages.

So here it is..... the attacks some many have made on me.... How might the
Wachowskis have written that in?

It should be friggin obvious.

At this point in time, and here, there is plenty to look into in the way of
connections of myself and what I am about in regards to the movies.

Attacking me here, all it really does is .... well to be point blank
honest.... exposed the character of the attacker. for there are plenty
enough documented usenet posts where the attacker was making claims about
me that even often in their post, they show their own guilt of the very
thing they claim of me.

Certainly the whole mirror thing, the mercury, etc... all make perfect sense
to me. Just search on may name and mirror in google groups and sort by date
to see how far back that goes.

And then there is "Toonces the Cat" .....Who was that, was it the
wachowskis??

The Amiga with the Video Toaster was the first major breakthru in both video
switcher and Animation tools (lightwave).... A lot of the video production
and movie industry used it back then..... So its really not a supprise I
was found...for I was in the Amiga newsgroups...

There is alot more but sufice it to say.....the attacks I've deal with....
the attackers still all look the same.

The VIC project... there have been those who said it can't be done, but
can't tell me why, hell its not anything in the way of functionality that
we haven't had for a long time. And then there are those who claim its
already been done, but just can't seem to show me where it is. Then there
is me, do it, proving it.

What's the problem, why all the resistance and attacks? Its simple,
autocoding obsoletes psuedo coders...

The system failure message at the end of the first movie.... that was about
what was projected to happen should ..... word get out about autocoding, to
the public. The old system would fall.

Now the system... well its clear, not just from the movies, but from reality
that effort to being applied to either control it or to control it.... The
system would rather stay the way it has been, but If I force it by
finishing the vic in a manenr that is easy to use, you can bet you ass MS
will be one to apply their marketing power to convince the world they did
it.... just like they have done so many times before...

I'm a nutter........ because I'm a user that wants to do more for myself,
and worse, cause I know it is possible.

I'm a real fucking lunitic.... because I'm tired of the attitude of an
industry of "we are going to fuck you and if you don't like it we are going
to fuck you."

I believe anyone who searches google groups will find such a statement from
me.

And what was it that Trinity said to Neo when Neo decided to go save
Morpheus?

I believe you can go to hell, because you are not going anywhere else.

Nobody has ever done this before........ Thats why its going to work......
Yeah, I was in the Government building, usenet, with its date time stamped
archives...

About what I do for a living, There are other Timothy Rues, one is a
photographer. I was actually mistaken for this well established
photographer..... Somebody saw my photographs of Europe and thought I must
be that guy..

There is also my artwork, including an electric violin I made... much of
which is availbale on via the internet........ Fuck modest,,,,, its good
work!

Yeah I'm a nutter.... one attacker clamed I hadn't a creative bone in my
body.... They were looking in a mirror.....

Interesting what some chose to focus on.... the attackers....

Choice....
--
3 S.E.A.S -- Virtual Interaction Configuration (VIC)
Changing how we preceive and use computers
email @ translate not to net, remove capitol letters, one .
web @ http://threeseas.net

[RaYzor]

"3seas" <3s****@Tthreeseas.DOT.not> wrote in message
news:1I****************@newsread2.news.atl.earthli nk.net...

John Burns wrote:

On Thu, 13 Nov 2003 12:09:28 +0000, Gonçalo Rodrigues wrote:

[snip]

And I'm out of this thread.

Bye

I'll feed you pet troll John, I got plenty more where this came from:

-- snip illogical crapfest of complete lunacy ---<<<

You're fn crazy sir.

Matrix films suck. Its not real. Get a life.

RaYzor

[Michael Geary]

Timothy Rue wrote:

The system failure message at the end of the first movie....
that was about what was projected to happen should .....
word get out about autocoding, to the public.
The old system would fall.

Wow! The Matrix movies were about you?

Incredible!

-Mike

[3seas]

RaYzor wrote:
..
..
..

Matrix films suck. Its not real. Get a life.

RaYzor

This last post of mine was not supposed to go in the python newsgroup.
I thought I had checked it, but knode is new to me. Follow up should now be
to the comp.sys.amiga.misc newsgroup, Where teh last post of mine was
intending to only go to.

--
3 S.E.A.S -- Virtual Interaction Configuration (VIC)
Changing how we preceive and use computers
email @ translate not to net, remove capitol letters, one .
web @ http://threeseas.net

[Kirk Strauser]

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

At 2003-11-15T04:11:41Z, 3seas <3s****@Tthreeseas.DOT.not> writes:

Kirk S. no longer supports the FAQ that was fabricated...

- From Webster's Revised Unabridged Dictionary (1913) [web1913]:

Fabricate \Fab"ri*cate\, v. t. [imp. & p. p. {Fabricated}; p.

1. To form into a whole by uniting its parts; to frame; to
construct; to build; as, to fabricate a bridge or ship.

If that was your intented denotation, then, yes, I "fabricated" a FAQ a few
years ago. It was roughly about the time you were trying to convince the
world that you were, literally, the second coming of The Messiah.

Please leave me out of your discussions, fantasies, and delusions.

*plonk*
- --
Kirk Strauser
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Version: GnuPG v1.2.3 (GNU/Linux)

iD8DBQE/tq/C5sRg+Y0CpvERAiH9AJ0WAfhWGLo0yEqXlX0iiJiq/rQ9KQCghRGK
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-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

[3seas]

Kirk Strauser wrote:

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1
[snip]
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

response is posted to comp.sys.amiga.misc.
Why kirk posted to python only, didn't take it to csam,
should be obvious.
--
3 S.E.A.S -- Virtual Interaction Configuration (VIC)
Changing how we preceive and use computers
email @ translate not to net, remove capitol letters, one .
web @ http://threeseas.net

[John Burns]

On Sat, 15 Nov 2003 04:11:41 GMT, 3seas wrote:

John Burns wrote:

On Thu, 13 Nov 2003 12:09:28 +0000, Gonçalo Rodrigues wrote:
[snip]

And I'm out of this thread.

Bye

I'll feed you pet troll John, I got plenty more where this came from:

The metaphor of this attack on me is one of Agents/Smiths, And I have had

Yhere is no metaphor, the Matrix is not analagous to your life. There may be
some
coincidental similarities but that's all they are, coincidence.
plenty of them. And more than just such attacks, but at one point in time
mindspring was receiving alot of complaint about me, so they investigated,
then got in contact with me to tell me what was going on. They said
"Apparently there are those who simply do not like you presence anywhere on
the internet." In time more complaints happened, all false but this time someone hacked the
mindspring ticketing bot to make it look like it was me complaining about
me. Only the hacker didn't do a good enough job to keep Mindspring from
determing it wasn't me, but only well enough to hide who they were.
Mindspring then dropped their blue ribbon free speech support and ban me
from posting to usenet. Not because of anything I did, but because they were
spending more on investigating false complaints against me than I was paying
them per month.

Yeah right on Tim you are lying again. Whether or not false claims as to your
conduct have been made I couldn't say but I do know for a fact that many
legitimate complaints have been made and upheld over the years (including one I
myself made details of which I discussed with you in csa.misc some time back).
You have been banned on various occassions over the years for you behaviour so
stop trying to kid us on that you are the victim of some conspiracy - fact is
you constantly annoy people with your rudeness, posting OT and crossposting (not
to mention illiterate rantings).

Anyway Tim why isn't the VIC finished yet, after all you were employing a
professional programmer to do the work.

[Clockmeister]

"RaYzor" <[e-mail]> wrote in message
news:f0*******************@twister.nyroc.rr.com...

"3seas" <3s****@Tthreeseas.DOT.not> wrote in message
news:1I****************@newsread2.news.atl.earthli nk.net...

John Burns wrote:

On Thu, 13 Nov 2003 12:09:28 +0000, Gonçalo Rodrigues wrote:

[snip]

> And I'm out of this thread.

Bye

I'll feed you pet troll John, I got plenty more where this came from:

-- snip illogical crapfest of complete lunacy ---<<<

You're fn crazy sir.

Matrix films suck. Its not real. Get a life.

They are not real in themselves but certainly metaphorically they reflect
reality. Most people just don't get it... get it?

Regards,

Clockmeister.

[Don Romero]

> From: jo******@cybermesa.com (Jay O'Connor)

On Tue, 11 Nov 2003 12:20:58 GMT, "RaYzor" People who think the Matrix series of films are real in any way are amongst
the saddest people on Earth.

Imagine if it was "Dark City"

"The OMEN"

[Dang Griffith]

On Mon, 10 Nov 2003 23:19:48 GMT, 3seas <3s****@Tthreeseas.DOT.not>
wrote:

Maxim Khesin wrote:

That was an intentional act of spamming a protected email box.
And you know it

Ok, that 'would be' an act of spam, but don't worry, I was just kidding.

Now convince my mindspring mailbox of that....

I have received over 400 ms viral spams in 10 days from one error I made
in using linux news/mail readers -- learing setup --- to post one single
mesage to usenet w/o spam protection.

you just posted a non protected email address of mine intentionally to
usenet. And email address that you had to manually put effort inte getting,
aa that address did not exist in not exist in any post I made in this
thread.

you were not kidding. Or perhaps you want to claim ignorance?
How does that work? intentional act claimed as being ignorant of?
its not like this viral ms update spam is new or something.

Not really wanting to get involved in this thread, but fearing there
may be some latent ignorance lingering, I felt I should let you know.

There are bots that surf the newsgroups and heuristically extract
email addresses. While it's possible, it would surprise me if any of
the regular contributors to this group would begin spamming anyone,
even with a quasi-OT thread like this one.

I don't surf the email-filter.bot newsgroup, but I assume their tools
are now smart enough to convert / filter dot, not, at, spam, nospam,
and other obfuscators, into potentially valid email addresses. Who
knows--maybe they've outsourced the email-gathering to persons willing
to read newsgroups for low pay and do the filtering manually.

--dang
p.s.
I use MindSpring at home, and their server-side spam filter catches
many, but allows too many fakes through. It never ceases to amaze me
how emails containing the various well-known virus attachments are not
identified as spam. I could understand new ones slipping through, but
how long has Sven been around? Sheesh!