PEPs link gone from the Python homepage?

[David Abrahams]

Since a significant part of Python is only documented in PEPs, I am
disappointed to see that they can't be easily found. Where are they?

--
Dave Abrahams
Boost Consulting
www.boost-consulting.com

[Peter Hansen]

David Abrahams wrote:

Since a significant part of Python is only documented in PEPs, I am
disappointed to see that they can't be easily found. Where are they?

Why on the the Documentation page, of course. ;-)

-Peter

[Christopher Koppler]

On Fri, 26 Sep 2003 10:59:59 -0400, Peter Hansen <pe***@engcorp.com>
wrote:

David Abrahams wrote:

Since a significant part of Python is only documented in PEPs, I am
disappointed to see that they can't be easily found. Where are they?

Why on the the Documentation page, of course. ;-)

-Peter

....and also on the Developers page.

--Christopher

[Sean Ross]

"David Abrahams" <da**@boost-consulting.com> wrote in message
news:un***********@boost-consulting.com...

Since a significant part of Python is only documented in PEPs, I am
disappointed to see that they can't be easily found. Where are they?

--
Dave Abrahams
Boost Consulting
www.boost-consulting.com

Hi.
They're at http://www.python.org/peps/. They are found by following the
"Documentation" link (top right of main page), and then clicking the PEPs
link at the bottom of that page.
(Having a link to http://www.python.org/doc/, the general Python
documentation page, in the Documentation section on the left of the main
page would be repetitive, but I think it would be useful. I don't really
notice the links at the top of the page. The only reason I found them is
because I was trying to figure out how someone is meant to navigate to the
PEPs page, so I looked over the entire page carefully. Normally, I just look
at the sections on the left side of the main page for navigation purposes.)

HTH
Sean

[Daniel Dittmar]

David Abrahams wrote:

Since a significant part of Python is only documented in PEPs, I am
disappointed to see that they can't be easily found. Where are they?

Don't bother with site navigation, google "pep site:python.org".

Daniel

[Thomas Heller]

"Daniel Dittmar" <da************@sap.com> writes:

David Abrahams wrote:

Since a significant part of Python is only documented in PEPs, I am
disappointed to see that they can't be easily found. Where are they?

Don't bother with site navigation, google "pep site:python.org".

Or use mozilla together with Mark Hammond'd Python sidebar.
This convinced me (among other things) to switch from IE to mozilla.

Thomas

[Skip Montanaro]

David> Since a significant part of Python is only documented in PEPs, I
David> am disappointed to see that they can't be easily found. Where
David> are they?

Dave,

Try the left margin of the /dev/ page. If you find stuff in PEPs you
believe belongs in the standard documentation set, please file a
documentation bug report. While PEPs do contain a lot of valuable
information, I don't think that using them for end-user documentation was a
goal.

Skip

[David Abrahams]

Skip Montanaro <sk**@pobox.com> writes:

David> Since a significant part of Python is only documented in PEPs, I
David> am disappointed to see that they can't be easily found. Where
David> are they?

Dave,

Try the left margin of the /dev/ page.
Thanks. I was looking for /dev/, too, but I always forget to scan
the top. Eventually I got there from the search page.
If you find stuff in PEPs you believe belongs in the standard
documentation set, please file a documentation bug report.
Oof. MRO, descriptors, most of PEPs 252 and 253 last time I checked,
just off the top of my head. Do I you really think it would make a
difference to *formally* point out that many elements of the basic
design of the object model aren't in the docs?

And, this is not a rhetorical question: how many bug reports would be
appropriate for all of this information? Some of these PEPs cover
several topics.
While PEPs do contain a lot of valuable information, I don't think
that using them for end-user documentation was a goal.

Sure, I knew that, but while the docs are still incomplete, you use
what you can, and it would be nice to be sure that the information
was readily accessible.

--
Dave Abrahams
Boost Consulting
www.boost-consulting.com

[Skip Montanaro]

If you find stuff in PEPs you believe belongs in the standard
documentation set, please file a documentation bug report.

Dave> Oof. MRO, descriptors, most of PEPs 252 and 253 last time I
Dave> checked, just off the top of my head. Do I you really think it
Dave> would make a difference to *formally* point out that many elements
Dave> of the basic design of the object model aren't in the docs?

Yes, it would help. We have people come to python-dev and ask, "How can I
help?". It also serves as a reminder to people who can make the change that
it needs to be addressed. Without it, I suspect most of us will forget it
in the next couple of weeks.

Dave> And, this is not a rhetorical question: how many bug reports would
Dave> be appropriate for all of this information? Some of these PEPs
Dave> cover several topics.

I'd just file one having a subject like "migrate PEP content to
documentation" to start with. Assign it to me if you feel the urge. I'm
pretty sure Fred's swamped.

Dave> Sure, I knew that, but while the docs are still incomplete, you
Dave> use what you can, and it would be nice to be sure that the
Dave> information was readily accessible.

It's still readily accessible, but it's hard to see that "PEPs" should rank
up there on the front page with more general concepts like "Documentation"
or "Developers". Front page real estate is always at a premium. I think
it's appropriate that they are referred as they are now.

On matters such as this, I don't even bother with the website. My browser
home page is a bunch (17) of popup menus laid out in a tabular format and a
few <form>s. It has two Python-related menus:

Python Python Docs
------ -----------
Python Home Page Module Index
Python VM Wiki Python PEPs
Python @ SF Python Wiki
Python Glossary Python HOWTOs
Python-Mode @ SF C/C++ API
CSV mailing list Library Reference
ALF @ SF Language Reference
Watch @ SF Spambayes archives
Psyco @ SF Python-dev archives
Parnassus Python-list archives
Skip's Python Bits Python-help archives

That way I always know where to get at the stuff I'm interested in and am
insulated from changes to the link properties of web pages not completely
under my control.

Skip

[Aahz]

In article <un***********@boost-consulting.com>,
David Abrahams <da**@boost-consulting.com> wrote:

Since a significant part of Python is only documented in PEPs, I am
disappointed to see that they can't be easily found. Where are they?

I've gone ahead and added a link to the /doc/ sidebar. I was the one
who argued that if we were reducing the size of the home page, the PEP
link should go. Note that there is a /dev/ link in the sidebar, too,
listed as "Python Project: bugs, patchs, cvs".
--
Aahz (aa**@pythoncraft.com) <*> http://www.pythoncraft.com/

"It is easier to optimize correct code than to correct optimized code."
--Bill Harlan

[David Abrahams]

Skip Montanaro <sk**@pobox.com> writes:

>> If you find stuff in PEPs you believe belongs in the standard
>> documentation set, please file a documentation bug report.

Dave> Oof. MRO, descriptors, most of PEPs 252 and 253 last time I
Dave> checked, just off the top of my head. Do I you really think it
Dave> would make a difference to *formally* point out that many elements
Dave> of the basic design of the object model aren't in the docs?

Yes, it would help. We have people come to python-dev and ask, "How can I
help?". It also serves as a reminder to people who can make the change that
it needs to be addressed. Without it, I suspect most of us will forget it
in the next couple of weeks.

Dave> And, this is not a rhetorical question: how many bug reports would
Dave> be appropriate for all of this information? Some of these PEPs
Dave> cover several topics.

I'd just file one having a subject like "migrate PEP content to
documentation" to start with. Assign it to me if you feel the urge. I'm
pretty sure Fred's swamped.

Done, and thanks.
Dave> Sure, I knew that, but while the docs are still incomplete, you
Dave> use what you can, and it would be nice to be sure that the
Dave> information was readily accessible.

It's still readily accessible, but it's hard to see that "PEPs" should rank
up there on the front page with more general concepts like "Documentation"
or "Developers". Front page real estate is always at a premium. I think
it's appropriate that they are referred as they are now.
Yeah, but after the front page I looked under "Documentation" and
didn't find it either.
On matters such as this, I don't even bother with the website. My browser
home page is a bunch (17) of popup menus laid out in a tabular format and a
few <form>s. It has two Python-related menus:

Python Python Docs
------ -----------
Python Home Page Module Index
Python VM Wiki Python PEPs
Python @ SF Python Wiki
Python Glossary Python HOWTOs
Python-Mode @ SF C/C++ API
CSV mailing list Library Reference
ALF @ SF Language Reference
Watch @ SF Spambayes archives
Psyco @ SF Python-dev archives
Parnassus Python-list archives
Skip's Python Bits Python-help archives

That way I always know where to get at the stuff I'm interested in and am
insulated from changes to the link properties of web pages not completely
under my control.

Setting up infrastructure takes time, though. That's what sucks about
computers: you gotta spend time to save time :(

--
Dave Abrahams
Boost Consulting
www.boost-consulting.com

[Skip Montanaro]

It's still readily accessible, but it's hard to see that "PEPs"
should rank up there on the front page with more general concepts
like "Documentation" or "Developers". Front page real estate is
always at a premium. I think it's appropriate that they are referred
as they are now.
Dave> Yeah, but after the front page I looked under "Documentation" and
Dave> didn't find it either.

Ah, but it was there. ;-) I don't know if we need to more consistently name
them. On the /Developers page it's called "PEP Index". On the
/Documentation page it's listed twice, once as "Python Enhancement Proposals
(PEPs)" and later on as simply "PEPs". In both cases, the link you were
used to changed from the top margin to the left margin (I think). All three
links are to the root PEP page. I'll generate those two pages and make the
link read the same. "PEP Index" seems right to me. Long enough not to
miss, but not so long that it wraps lines. I don't think displaying "Python
Enhancement Proposals" aids comprehension anyway, since everyone refers to
them as "PEPs".
On matters such as this, I don't even bother with the website. My
browser home page is a bunch (17) of popup menus laid out in a
tabular format and a few <form>s. It has two Python-related menus:

...

Dave> Setting up infrastructure takes time, though. That's what sucks
Dave> about computers: you gotta spend time to save time :(

Agreed. I've been using the same basic home page for several years, so the
investment paid off long ago. About all I do these days is add or delete a
site to one of the menus. (Another positive side effect is that if I change
browsers I don't need to worry about how to migrate bookmarks from old to
new.)

Skip