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Redesign of Python site

P: n/a
came across this page searching feedster.
dont know whether this is the official resdesign or just a proposal;
but the mockups look very nice.

http://www.pollenation.net/journal/index.php?p=37&c=1

main page mockup:
http://www.pollenation.net/assets/pu...thon-main.html

interior page:
http://www.pollenation.net/assets/pu...-interior.html
Jul 18 '05 #1
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15 Replies


P: n/a
Thanks *very* much for pointing that out. This proposed redesign has some of
the worst typography I've seen in a long time--it's just totally
unacceptable. I left detailed comments on the site mentioned below, and I
guess I should make some noise on the appropriate mailing lists too.

I just hope it's not too late to head off this train wreck of a redesign.
<sigh>

-Mike

rt lange wrote:
came across this page searching feedster.
dont know whether this is the official resdesign or just a proposal;
but the mockups look very nice.

http://www.pollenation.net/journal/index.php?p=37&c=1

main page mockup:
http://www.pollenation.net/assets/pu...thon-main.html

interior page:
http://www.pollenation.net/assets/pu...-interior.html

Jul 18 '05 #2

P: n/a
rt lange <wh*********@yahoo.com> wrote:
came across this page searching feedster.
dont know whether this is the official resdesign or just a proposal;
but the mockups look very nice.


They look very nice if you're just taking in the view: they look like
crap if you want to actually read the content. I've posted a more
detailed complaint there, but in brief "I say it's spinach..."

--
There's one way to find out if a man is honest: ask him;
if he says yes, you know he's crooked. -- Twain
Jul 18 '05 #3

P: n/a
Martin Maney wrote:
They look very nice if you're just taking in the view: they look like
crap if you want to actually read the content. I've posted a more
detailed complaint there, but in brief "I say it's spinach..."


Hey, I *like* spinach. :-)

But I'm glad I'm not the only one who is dismayed by the unreadable text in
this redesign. I got a chuckle out of your "getting just the right shade of
gray" and posted a follow-up with some more contrast measurements:

http://www.pollenation.net/journal/index.php?p=37&c=1

-Mike
Jul 18 '05 #4

P: n/a

"rt lange" <wh*********@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:Xn*********************************@216.77.18 8.17...
came across this page searching feedster.
dont know whether this is the official resdesign or just a proposal;
but the mockups look very nice.
YUCK< YUCK< YUCK.
http://www.pollenation.net/journal/index.php?p=37&c=1

main page mockup:
http://www.pollenation.net/assets/pu...thon-main.html
The old site is very readable. Using IE6, I need a magnifying glass
to read this page. This is done in the arrogant style of 'we know
better than you what type size you should have'. Also known as the
'control the user experience' school. Awful. For me, one of the
worse pages I have ever seen. Anti-Pythonic.
interior page:
http://www.pollenation.net/assets/pu...-interior.html


Only slightly better. The low contrast gray-on-gray comments page is
also barely readable. (Others reported the same.) For my
less-than-perfect 50+ year-old eyes, it is physically the WORST
comments page I have ever seen. It is a case study in
anti-accessibility design. The person responsible should not touch
our site.

Terry J. Reedy

Terry J. Reedy
only slightly better.
Jul 18 '05 #5

P: n/a

"Aahz" <aa**@pythoncraft.com> wrote in message
news:bj**********@panix3.panix.com...
Currently just a proposal.
To me, the the purpose of the Python site is to convey information to
lots of different programmers. It should therefore be physically
readable by as many people as possible. and not just 20-30 year olds
with 20-20 vision.

The current site is, for me, one of the most readable sites aronnd.
The text colors work and it lets Internet Explorer adjust the text
size.

The pollenation site is one of the worst I have seen. The mockup page
has teeny type that IE will not enlarge. (Telling me to use another
browser is besides the point. Lots of people will continue to visit
with IE even if I do switch.) The comments page has barely readable
dark-brown gray type on a lighter brown-gray background.. These pages
should only be used as examples of what not to do and how not to spoil
what we already have.
If you care about this subject, subscribe to the mailing list at
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listi...otorg-redesign


I care that the site remain physically readable and that it remain a
vehicle for information rather than childish egos. If you are
subscribed and could convey this concern, I would appreciate it. I
otherwise do not have too much concern about particulars and therefore
not much to contribute.

Terry J. Reedy
Jul 18 '05 #6

P: n/a
"Terry Reedy" <tj*****@udel.edu> wrote previously:
|To me, the the purpose of the Python site is to convey information to
|lots of different programmers. It should therefore be physically
|readable by as many people as possible. and not just 20-30 year olds
|with 20-20 vision.

I completely agree with most posters on the demo webpage redesign. The
fonts are horribly, unreadably small. And the whole is cluttered, busy,
and difficult to get visually oriented to. As others observed, the
low-contrast colors make the small fonts EVEN MORE difficult to read.

Yours, Lulu...

--
Keeping medicines from the bloodstreams of the sick; food from the bellies
of the hungry; books from the hands of the uneducated; technology from the
underdeveloped; and putting advocates of freedom in prisons. Intellectual
property is to the 21st century what the slave trade was to the 16th.

Jul 18 '05 #7

P: n/a

"rt lange" <wh*********@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:Xn*********************************@216.77.18 8.17...
came across this page searching feedster.
dont know whether this is the official resdesign or just a proposal;
but the mockups look very nice.

http://www.pollenation.net/journal/index.php?p=37&c=1

main page mockup:
http://www.pollenation.net/assets/pu...thon-main.html

interior page:
http://www.pollenation.net/assets/pu...-interior.html


I have to agree with the other posters on this thread. I certainly
would not want to read it for very long. I suppose I could ignore
the cute graphics that take too long to download since this is a
marketing oriented design, but the fonts and lack of contrast
are a show-stopper.

Whoever did this design should read at least one of the
books on horrible web page designs.

John Roth
Jul 18 '05 #8

P: n/a

The current site is, for me, one of the most readable sites aronnd.
The text colors work and it lets Internet Explorer adjust the text
size.

The pollenation site is one of the worst I have seen. The mockup page
has teeny type that IE will not enlarge. (Telling me to use another
browser is besides the point. Lots of people will continue to visit
with IE even if I do switch.) The comments page has barely readable
dark-brown gray type on a lighter brown-gray background.. These pages
should only be used as examples of what not to do and how not to spoil
what we already have.


It is absolutely beyond me, how IE should display the mockpage any
differently than other browsers.
On Mozilla, the page loads as:

<body>
<img src="python-web6.png" />
</body>

Stephan

Jul 18 '05 #9

P: n/a

"Stephan Diehl" <st***********@gmx.net> wrote in message
news:bj*************@news.t-online.com...

The current site is, for me, one of the most readable sites aronnd.
The text colors work and it lets Internet Explorer adjust the text
size.

The pollenation site is one of the worst I have seen. The mockup page
has teeny type that IE will not enlarge. (Telling me to use another
browser is besides the point. Lots of people will continue to visit
with IE even if I do switch.) The comments page has barely readable
dark-brown gray type on a lighter brown-gray background.. These pages
should only be used as examples of what not to do and how not to spoil
what we already have.
It is absolutely beyond me, how IE should display the mockpage any
differently than other browsers.
On Mozilla, the page loads as:

<body>
<img src="python-web6.png" />
</body>


It loads the same on IE. The problem that Terry is complaining
about results from it being a mockup: you're displaying a PNG, so it's
understandable that attempts to resize the type or change the
foreground or background colors won't work.

John Roth
Stephan

Jul 18 '05 #10

P: n/a
In article <Vl********************@comcast.com>,
Terry Reedy <tj*****@udel.edu> wrote:

I care that the site remain physically readable and that it remain
a vehicle for information rather than childish egos. If you are
subscribed and could convey this concern, I would appreciate it. I
otherwise do not have too much concern about particulars and therefore
not much to contribute.


Speaking as the champion of Lynx, I absolutely agree. ;-) Don't worry,
I'll veto anything that doesn't have excellent readability, though I
don't know to what extent I personally will check against browsers other
than Lynx and Opera.
--
Aahz (aa**@pythoncraft.com) <*> http://www.pythoncraft.com/

This is Python. We don't care much about theory, except where it intersects
with useful practice. --Aahz
Jul 18 '05 #11

P: n/a

"Aahz" <aa**@pythoncraft.com> wrote in message
news:bj**********@panix2.panix.com...
Speaking as the champion of Lynx, I absolutely agree. ;-) Don't worry, I'll veto anything that doesn't have excellent readability, though I
don't know to what extent I personally will check against browsers other than Lynx and Opera.


Email me a URL of a serious proposal and I will view with IE and reply
with comment re readability. Or just post and let several people
test.

Terry J. Reedy
Jul 18 '05 #12

P: n/a
On Sun, 7 Sep 2003 12:42:19 +0100, "Tim Parkin"
<ti********@pollenationinternet.com> wrote in comp.lang.python in article
<ma*********************************@python.org> :
Perhaps the people who have commented on the site should realise it's a
proposal and a work in progress. As constructive comments go the only
feedback I have gathered is that the fonts are too small and the
contrast is
a little low. I've adjusted contrast on key elements and also increased
the
font size. These pages are here :

http://pollenation.net/assets/public/python-main-2.html
http://pollenation.net/assets/public...nterior-2.html

also bearing in mind that the html page will be accessible and hence
allow
text resizing here is a sample of +1 text size.

http://pollenation.net/assets/public...n-2larger.html
http://pollenation.net/assets/public...r-2larger.html


My suggestions:

Go with the +1 font size as the default. The tinier font is nice for
fitting lots of data into a page, but not so good for readability.

Also, on the content pages put more white space between lines (i.e. the
vertical number of pixels between the bottom of one line and the top of the
next).
--
Sheila King
http://www.thinkspot.net/sheila/
http://www.k12groups.org/
Jul 18 '05 #13

P: n/a
In article <bT********************@comcast.com>,
Terry Reedy <tj*****@udel.edu> wrote:
"Aahz" <aa**@pythoncraft.com> wrote in message
news:bj**********@panix2.panix.com...

Speaking as the champion of Lynx, I absolutely agree. ;-) Don't worry,
I'll veto anything that doesn't have excellent readability, though I
don't know to what extent I personally will check against browsers other
than Lynx and Opera.


Email me a URL of a serious proposal and I will view with IE and reply
with comment re readability. Or just post and let several people
test.


It will likely be that the top candidates get posted to c.l.py.announce.
--
Aahz (aa**@pythoncraft.com) <*> http://www.pythoncraft.com/

This is Python. We don't care much about theory, except where it intersects
with useful practice. --Aahz
Jul 18 '05 #14

P: n/a
On Tue, 09 Sep 2003 20:24:07 GMT,
Gary Feldman <ga*************@ziplink.stopallspam.net> wrote:
The horizontal banner really only needs a handful of items:


Good suggestion; I've updated http://www.amk.ca/python.org.html to match.
The resulting top bar, with only six options, is quite nice.

Should there be a sidebar link to the development version of the docs, as
well as the 2.2/2.3 versions? What to call it, so that newbies don't
stumble into it by accident and wonder why some features are missing from
their 2.3 installation? "In development", "CVS version", "Development
draft", something else?

--amk
Jul 18 '05 #15

P: n/a
On Thu, 11 Sep 2003 13:25:18 -0500, "A.M. Kuchling" <am*@amk.ca> wrote:
Should there be a sidebar link to the development version of the docs, as
well as the 2.2/2.3 versions? What to call it, so that newbies don't


Let me answer this way: There should be at most one direct link to
developer resources in the top and side menu areas combined. Python
developers will certainly be able to find their way around, and will
probably rely on bookmarks directly to the developer area.

Depending on what winds up in the main area, I can imagine an additional
entry there, but not near the top.

Gary
Jul 18 '05 #16

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