advice choosing IDE

[Lupe]

I'm convinced to try Python!

I've read many posts, and although I recently bought a book on C to start
learning it, I'd like to give Python a good chance.

What IDE would you recommend for someone who needs easiness of use with a
background of Pascal and VB for MS Office? I've definitely changed to
Linux now and I would like a free IDE either for procedural or object
oriented programming.

I'd need an easy help on syntax, if possible with examples and a front end
debugger with easy trace, breakpoints and watches.

Programming is not my profession, just a hobby!

With all this in mind what would be your recommendation? I've read so many
posts on the subject that I'm confused. For a beginner, I just need one
solution...

Lupe

[Gerald Klix]

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You may give idle a try. It comes with the python standard distribution
and should have no installation hassels.
Under Debian linix it is installed as "idle-python",
"idle-python2.3" or "idle-python2.x", depending on the
python version installed.

If you don't mind installing some additional software
and an extended startup time you may try Boa Constructor.
It has - besides many other features - a builtin GUI builder
and claims to be sort of "Delphi for Python".
Boa Constructors Home Page can be found at:
http://boa-constructor.sourceforge.net/

HTH,
Gerald

Lupe wrote:
| I'm convinced to try Python!
|
| I've read many posts, and although I recently bought a book on C to start
| learning it, I'd like to give Python a good chance.
|
| What IDE would you recommend for someone who needs easiness of use with a
| background of Pascal and VB for MS Office? I've definitely changed to
| Linux now and I would like a free IDE either for procedural or object
| oriented programming.
|
| I'd need an easy help on syntax, if possible with examples and a front end
| debugger with easy trace, breakpoints and watches.
|
| Programming is not my profession, just a hobby!
|
| With all this in mind what would be your recommendation? I've read so
many
| posts on the subject that I'm confused. For a beginner, I just need one
| solution...
|
| Lupe

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[Michael Peuser]

"Lupe" <lu**@netvisao.pt> schrieb im Newsbeitrag
news:bh************@ID-202776.news.uni-berlin.de...

I'm convinced to try Python!

I've read many posts, and although I recently bought a book on C to start
learning it, I'd like to give Python a good chance.

What IDE would you recommend for someone who needs easiness of use with a
background of Pascal and VB for MS Office? I've definitely changed to
Linux now and I would like a free IDE either for procedural or object
oriented programming.

I'd need an easy help on syntax, if possible with examples and a front end
debugger with easy trace, breakpoints and watches.

Well, I think you will have a hard time ahead. No one who has ever used
Delphi, VB or RealBasic can really understand in what poore shape Python
(and Perl is no better) support is ;-)

The easiest thing would be PythonWorks which however seems to be no longer
available and has never been free.

There is no second best.

The third best would be something like ActiveState's KOMODO Profesional
(with GUI Builder for Tkinter) runs best under Windows, about 300 $ or
Archaeopterix Wing IDE Standard (no GUI Bilder) about the same price.

I personally use IDLE (plain vanille IDE), it has some features, yes. But
probably not what you expect. There are a lot of versions. I personally like
0.81 best.

There are two GUI Toolkits you might like:
PyQt and their GUI Builder (that would be free for non commercial work) if
you plan to do *a lot* of GUI applications. The GUI Builder is *not* an
Python IDE, so that is somewhat off topic ;-)

Then there is wxPython and something like BoaConstructor, but Boa as well is
more a GUI Builder than an IDE, thoug it nows a little bit more Python.
Kindly
Michael P

[David M. Cook]

In article <bh************@ID-202776.news.uni-berlin.de>, Lupe wrote:

I'd need an easy help on syntax, if possible with examples and a front end
debugger with easy trace, breakpoints and watches.

I've never used Python's debugger in years of Python programming. Or are
you asking about C now? I think DDD supports Python debugging, though.

For Python work I use XEmacs. It has a very good python mode. I just don't
think Python's syntax is complex enough to need help from an IDE. For
library help I just keep a link on my browser toolbar to a local copy of
the Python html docs.

There are several good IDEs for C, but you should not use their existence as
an excuse for not learning how to write a Makefile.

Dave Cook

[François Pinard]

[Lupe]

I've read many posts, and although I recently bought a book on C to start
learning it, I'd like to give Python a good chance.
Hi, Lupe. Just a quick hello, while reading your post.

My feeling would be that Python is giving you a good chance, more than the
other way around! :-)
What IDE would you recommend for someone who needs easiness of use witha
background of Pascal and VB for MS Office?
I have no real advice to offer, as I do not even use MS Office nor VB, yet
in some past life, I did a great deal of work in Pascal -- the real one! --,
but still, away from Microsoft systems.
I've definitely changed to Linux now and I would like a free IDE either
for procedural or object oriented programming. I'd need an easy help on
syntax,
For one, I'm using Emacs for most of my works, which is an editor with many
capabilities, and which evolved a lot since I learned it. Nowadays, I guess
it is more affordable to newcomers than it once was, with bitmapped menus
and widgets, and also keybad and mouse bindings, but I'm not using these
much yet, and I do really not know how a newcomer would perceive Emacs.

There is a syntax helper, in form of a templating system named ELSE, which I
sometimes use with other languages or environments, but I found out it is
not that helpful for Python, since Python syntax is so clear, uncluttered
and easy to remember. Probably that the easiest help you can get on Python
syntax is your own memory, that could be well worth a lot of tools.
[...] a front end debugger with easy trace, breakpoints and watches.
I read many times that `pdb' is accessible from Emacs through GUD (the Grand
Unified Debugger), it might offer what you want, I do not have enough
experience with it to confirm everything you ask for. It just never
happened yet that, for all the programs I wrote in Python so far, one ever
gave me enough trouble to push me into acquiring experience with GUD/pdb.
Programming is not my profession, just a hobby!

It might make a difference. I progressively learned to write without bugs,
so debugging after writing is much less important for me now that it has
been when I was more of a beginner. I'm almost sure that if programming was
just a hobby, I would be tempted to learn `pdb' and GUD more carefully, and
early, so I can take advantage of them all along the way.

Keep happy!

--
François Pinard http://www.iro.umontreal.ca/~pinard

[Phil Thompson]

On Monday 18 August 2003 1:18 pm, Michael Peuser wrote:

There are two GUI Toolkits you might like:
PyQt and their GUI Builder (that would be free for non commercial work) if
you plan to do *a lot* of GUI applications. The GUI Builder is *not* an
Python IDE, so that is somewhat off topic ;-)

I'll beat Detlev to it this time...

eric at http://www.die-offenbachs.de/detlev/eric3.html is a full IDE, written
in PyQt, that integrates with Qt Designer. It does the usual editing,
debugging, project management, class browsing - plus access to source code
control systems, syntax checking, unit testing, profiling, code coverage.
Latest snaphots include refactoring tools. Etc, etc, etc.

Phil

[Michael Peuser]

"Michael Peuser" <mp*****@web.de> schrieb im Newsbeitrag
news:bh*************@news.t-online.com...

My apologies! I was of course refering to the Trolltech QT Builder which is a fine product but no integrated Python tool. I have heard of "eric" but
never used it.... I certainly will!

Nevertheless it is no simple task to install it on a Windows machine:
There seems to be just a source code version of QScintilla (what you need in
addition to Qt and PyQt).

This seems nothing for a newbie to start, looking for his first IDE......

Similar problems (on Windows) happen with GTK related products. This a total
mess. We poor and simple minded WIndows usesr expect something working just
out of the box ;-)
Kindly
Michael P

[Phil Thompson]

On Monday 18 August 2003 4:22 pm, Michael Peuser wrote:

"Michael Peuser" <mp*****@web.de> schrieb im Newsbeitrag
news:bh*************@news.t-online.com...

My apologies! I was of course refering to the Trolltech QT Builder which
is

a fine product but no integrated Python tool. I have heard of "eric" but
never used it.... I certainly will!

Nevertheless it is no simple task to install it on a Windows machine:
There seems to be just a source code version of QScintilla (what you need
in addition to Qt and PyQt).

To run eric on Windows you need the commercial or educational versions of Qt
and PyQt (because QScintilla requires Qt v3).
This seems nothing for a newbie to start, looking for his first IDE......
The original poster was looking for a Linux solution (I think).
Similar problems (on Windows) happen with GTK related products. This a
total mess. We poor and simple minded WIndows usesr expect something
working just out of the box ;-)

Phil

[Ludovico Magnocavallo]

> What IDE would you recommend for someone who needs easiness of use with

a background of Pascal and VB for MS Office? I've definitely changed to
Linux now and I would like a free IDE either for procedural or object
oriented programming.

J (http://www.armedbear.org/) is more an editor than an IDE, though it
does offer basic support for Python (indentation, syntax highlighting, a
simple code browser), but it's a very nice editor especially for someone
coming from the windows world.

It's written in Java so it should run out of the box on most modern Linux
distributions (recent versions require Java 1.4).

Spend a few minutes reading its help on preferences, it's worth it.

Good luck!

Ludo

[Detlev Offenbach]

Phil Thompson wrote:

On Monday 18 August 2003 1:18 pm, Michael Peuser wrote:

There are two GUI Toolkits you might like:
PyQt and their GUI Builder (that would be free for non commercial
work) if you plan to do *a lot* of GUI applications. The GUI Builder
is *not* an Python IDE, so that is somewhat off topic ;-)
I'll beat Detlev to it this time...

You made it ;-)

eric at http://www.die-offenbachs.de/detlev/eric3.html is a full IDE,
written in PyQt, that integrates with Qt Designer. It does the usual
editing, debugging, project management, class browsing - plus access to
source code control systems, syntax checking, unit testing, profiling,
code coverage. Latest snaphots include refactoring tools. Etc, etc,
etc.

Phil

And if there is something missing in the "etc, etc, etc" let me know and
I'll try to implement it.

Detlev
--
Detlev Offenbach
de****@die-offenbachs.de

[John J. Lee]

pi****@iro.umontreal.ca (François Pinard) writes:
[...]

I progressively learned to write without bugs,

[...]

François is clearly just about to become obscenely rich from NASA &
defence contract work. ;-)
John, wondering where that GNU recode bug I spent some effort trying
to track done can have come from <0.5 wink>

[Lupe]

Thanks everyone!

I've got some material... :)

It's not easy to arrive at a different world (Linux) where everything can be
customizeable. For a begginner, it's easier to have just 'one solution' in
first place and then to evolve, but I'll get there!

Lupe

[reh]

Detlev Offenbach wrote:

eric at http://www.die-offenbachs.de/detlev/eric3.html is a full IDE,
written in PyQt, that integrates with Qt Designer. It does the usual
editing, debugging, project management, class browsing - plus access
to source code control systems, syntax checking, unit testing,
profiling, code coverage. Latest snaphots include refactoring tools.
Etc, etc, etc.

Phil

And if there is something missing in the "etc, etc, etc" let me know
and I'll try to implement it.

Detlev

Doing some work in eric between everything else, well done.

Have a question on Calltips. Have it Enabled. Thought I would see
something like calltips for functions, but what I see is more
Autoconfig. Am I missing something.

thanks;
--
robert
redhat 9.0

[Detlev Offenbach]

reh wrote:

Detlev Offenbach wrote:

eric at http://www.die-offenbachs.de/detlev/eric3.html is a full IDE,
written in PyQt, that integrates with Qt Designer. It does the usual
editing, debugging, project management, class browsing - plus access
to source code control systems, syntax checking, unit testing,
profiling, code coverage. Latest snaphots include refactoring tools.
Etc, etc, etc.

Phil

And if there is something missing in the "etc, etc, etc" let me know
and I'll try to implement it.

Detlev

Doing some work in eric between everything else, well done.

Have a question on Calltips. Have it Enabled. Thought I would see
something like calltips for functions, but what I see is more
Autoconfig. Am I missing something.

You have to install some api files somewhere and configure their usage
using the Preferences Dialog. Calltips and Autocompletion both use the
API files.

Detlev
--
Detlev Offenbach
de****@die-offenbachs.de

[HankC]

On Mon, 18 Aug 2003 14:18:48 +0200, "Michael Peuser" <mp*****@web.de>
wrote:

Well, I think you will have a hard time ahead. No one who has ever used
Delphi, VB or RealBasic can really understand in what poore shape Python
(and Perl is no better) support is ;-)

I beg to differ. I've been programming Delphi professionally for
about six years so I know the tool well. For Win32 development of
*anything* other than device drivers it's hands down the best
development tool, IMO.

However, 'shape' can be determined by requirements. I'm in the
process of switching to BOA/Python...

- Cross platform applications will make me a lot of money.

- Execution speed isn't a huge issue for me.

What's wrong with Borland/Delphi?

- Because of their rapidly expanding product line, including big money
makers like JBuilder, Delphi is getting less attention (waiting,
waiting for bug fixes)

- Kylix is virtually dead, and never was good for generally
distributed application development because of it's release cycle.

Granted, BOA/Python has nowhere near the polish of Delphi but OTOH
Python has better staying power and better cross-platform support.
From my POV, Python is in better shape than Delphi (VB is in even
worse shape).