Setting Class Attributes

[the.theorist]

I have a small, simple class which contains a dictionary (and some
other stuff, not shown). I then have a container class (Big) that holds
some instances of the simple class. When I try to edit the elements of
the dictionary, all instances obtain those changes; I want each
instance to hold separate entries.

#----------Begin module test.py
class ex:
def __init__(self, val={}):
self.value = val
def __str__(self):
return str(self.value)

class Big:
def __init__(self):
self.A = ex()
self.B = ex()
def __str__(self)
return "A=%s, B=%s"%(self.A, self.B)
def changea(self):
a = self.A.value
a['x'] = 1
a['y'] = 10

print "x = Big()"
x = Big()
print x

print "x.changea()"
x.changea()
print x

print "x.B.value = 30"
x.B.value = 30
print x
#----------End module test.py

#----------Begin actual output
x = Big()
A={}, B={}
x.changea()
A={'x':1, 'y':10}, B={'x':1, 'y':10}
x.B.value = 30
A={'x':1, 'y':10}, B=30
#----------End actual output

#----------Begin Desired output
x = Big()
A={}, B={}
x.changea()
A={'x':1, 'y':10}, B={}
x.B.value = 30
A={'x':1, 'y':10}, B=30
#----------End Desired output

I'm never actually planning on changing the dictionary into something
else, I just included that test to see wether both A and B would be set
to 30. I'm clearly missing something here: Why do both dictionaries
appear to get the same data when they are clearly separate instances?

[Bruno Desthuilliers]

the.theorist a écrit :

I have a small, simple class which contains a dictionary (and some
other stuff, not shown). I then have a container class (Big) that holds
some instances of the simple class. When I try to edit the elements of
the dictionary, all instances obtain those changes; I want each
instance to hold separate entries.

#----------Begin module test.py
class ex:
class ex(object): # oldstyle classes are deprecated
def __init__(self, val={}):
self.value = val

You didn't search very long. This is one of the most (in)famous Python
gotchas: default args are evaluated *only once*, when the function
definition is evaluated (at load time). This is also a dirty trick to
have a 'static' (as in C) like variable.

The solution is quite simple:
class ex(object):
def __init__(self, val=None):
if val is None: val = {}
self.value = val

(snip)

[the.theorist]

Bruno Desthuilliers wrote:

the.theorist a écrit :

I have a small, simple class which contains a dictionary (and some
other stuff, not shown). I then have a container class (Big) that holds
some instances of the simple class. When I try to edit the elements of
the dictionary, all instances obtain those changes; I want each
instance to hold separate entries.

#----------Begin module test.py
class ex:

class ex(object): # oldstyle classes are deprecated

def __init__(self, val={}):
self.value = val

You didn't search very long. This is one of the most (in)famous Python
gotchas: default args are evaluated *only once*, when the function
definition is evaluated (at load time). This is also a dirty trick to
have a 'static' (as in C) like variable.

The solution is quite simple:
class ex(object):
def __init__(self, val=None):
if val is None: val = {}
self.value = val

(snip)

Hey, that was extremely helpful. I suspect that the default args
evaluation is optimized for speed. So it makes sense to use the None
assignment, and a test condition later.

Worked like a charm, Thanks!

[Bengt Richter]

On 25 Oct 2005 15:57:41 -0700, "the.theorist" <th**********@gmail.com> wrote:

Bruno Desthuilliers wrote:

the.theorist a =E9crit :

> I have a small, simple class which contains a dictionary (and some
> other stuff, not shown). I then have a container class (Big) that holds
> some instances of the simple class. When I try to edit the elements of
> the dictionary, all instances obtain those changes; I want each
> instance to hold separate entries.
>
> #----------Begin module test.py
> class ex:
class ex(object): # oldstyle classes are deprecated

> def __init__(self, val=3D{}):
> self.value =3D val

You didn't search very long. This is one of the most (in)famous Python
gotchas: default args are evaluated *only once*, when the function
definition is evaluated (at load time). This is also a dirty trick to
have a 'static' (as in C) like variable.

The solution is quite simple:
class ex(object):
def __init__(self, val=3DNone):
if val is None: val =3D {}
self.value =3D val

(snip)

Hey, that was extremely helpful. I suspect that the default args
evaluation is optimized for speed. So it makes sense to use the None
assignment, and a test condition later.

That sounds like you missed the important point: The reason for using None
instead of {} as a default argument is that default arguments are only
evaluated when the function is defined, not when it's called, so if the
default value is {}, that very _same_ dict will be used as default for
the next call to __init__, so you will have every instance of ex looking
at the same val and binding it to its self.value, and then if one instance
modifies it (which it can, since a dict is mutable), the other instances
will see the modification in their self.value dicts. The None default
prevents re-use of a dict that wasn't actually passed in as an argument
replacing the default in the call. The call-time test for None discovers
that a fresh dict is needed, and self.value = {} creates that fresh dict
when __init__ executes, so the new instance gets its own separate self.value dict.

Nothing to do with optimization. In fact, re-using the shared default dict
would be faster, though of course generally wrong.
Worked like a charm, Thanks!

Just wanted to make sure you realize why it made a difference, in case ;-)

Regards,
Bengt Richter

[the.theorist]

So that it'll be easier to remember the next time I find myself in the
same situation on a different task, I'll extend the discussion
somewhat.

Coming from C, I had expected that I'd get a new empty dict every time
the __init__ function ran. Guido (or some other benevolent) had decided
to implement things a little bit differently in Python. I understand
that most everything is a pointer in Python. (which gives us cool stuff
like recursive data structures) So I was wondering, they could have
made the behavior C-like, but chose not to. The decision to bind
everything in the function to the same default args must be a
reflection of the Python Ideology. Philosophically, why was it done
this way, and how does it fit in with Python's design as a language.

(hopefully, reasons will help me remeber why things are the way they
are, so I don't forget in the future)
-----------------
I've only been using Python for a few weeks. (Chose it over Perl,
because Python syntax is cleaner). I really like Python (over C), as it
makes coding and debugging much faster and easier.

[Steve Holden]

the.theorist wrote:

So that it'll be easier to remember the next time I find myself in the
same situation on a different task, I'll extend the discussion
somewhat.

Coming from C, I had expected that I'd get a new empty dict every time
the __init__ function ran. Guido (or some other benevolent) had decided
to implement things a little bit differently in Python. I understand
that most everything is a pointer in Python. (which gives us cool stuff
like recursive data structures) So I was wondering, they could have
made the behavior C-like, but chose not to. The decision to bind
everything in the function to the same default args must be a
reflection of the Python Ideology. Philosophically, why was it done
this way, and how does it fit in with Python's design as a language.
I couldn't claim to be channelling the developers, but I suspect that
the decision was pragmatic.

Consider what would have to be done in the case of a method prototype
such as

class myClass(object):
def __init__(arg1, arg2=default):
print "Arg2 is:", arg2

Remember as well that the "def" statement is executable: when executed
it binds the function name to the compiled function body in the current
namespace.

Suppose the "default" name had gone out of scope by the time the
instances are created: what value would you have the ionterpreter bind
to the argument in that case?
(hopefully, reasons will help me remeber why things are the way they
are, so I don't forget in the future)
-----------------
I've only been using Python for a few weeks. (Chose it over Perl,
because Python syntax is cleaner). I really like Python (over C), as it
makes coding and debugging much faster and easier.

Yup, it's a great languae, and it seems to be increasing in popularity
quite rapidly.

regards
Steve
--
Steve Holden [phone] [phone]
Holden Web LLC www.holdenweb.com
PyCon TX 2006 www.python.org/pycon/

[Ron Adam]

the.theorist wrote:

So that it'll be easier to remember the next time I find myself in the
same situation on a different task, I'll extend the discussion
somewhat.

Coming from C, I had expected that I'd get a new empty dict every time
the __init__ function ran. Guido (or some other benevolent) had decided
to implement things a little bit differently in Python. I understand
that most everything is a pointer in Python. (which gives us cool stuff
like recursive data structures) So I was wondering, they could have
made the behavior C-like, but chose not to. The decision to bind
everything in the function to the same default args must be a
reflection of the Python Ideology. Philosophically, why was it done
this way, and how does it fit in with Python's design as a language.
I didn't read too closely the thread leading up to this point so I may
be stating something already stated or that is already obvious to you.

There is a difference between a pointer and name binding that you should
keep in mind. When using pointers in C you can feasibly have a chain of
pointers. In Python, it doesn't work that way unless you explicitly
define a pointer type object to be used in such a way. The normal
behavior is for an expression to bind a name with the object that is
bound to the other name. So...

a = 1 # a binds to 1
b = a # b binds to 1
c = b # c binds to 1

So if you change what 'a' is bound to, 'b' and 'c' are still each bound
to 1.

Some of the places where you get pointer type behavior is in container
objects. Look at the following sequence of instructions.

a = 1 # a binds to 1
b = [a] # first item in list is bound to 1,
b binds to list.
c = b # c bind to same list b is bound to.
a = 2 # a binds to 2
print b[0] -> 1 # print first item in list b is bound to.
b[0] = 3 # change first item in list b is bound to to 3
print c[0] -> 3 # print first item in list c is bound to,
# (same list as b is bound to)

If you can follow this easily you are well on your way to understanding
Pythons storage model and philosophy. Notice, a name isn't bound to
another name.

This relationship is all over Python including the name binding of
functions and class methods. And also in class's as well.

Keep in mind the class body is executed at the time it is defined, and
the methods are defined but not executed until they are used. In the
case of the __init__ it is when the class is called after an instance
object is created. When instances are created they share any class
objects that were bound to names when the class was defined. They don't
share any objects that get bound to instance attribute names in methods
later.

Does this help any?

Cheers,
Ron
(hopefully, reasons will help me remeber why things are the way they
are, so I don't forget in the future)
-----------------
I've only been using Python for a few weeks. (Chose it over Perl,
because Python syntax is cleaner). I really like Python (over C), as it
makes coding and debugging much faster and easier.