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Where to find python c-sources

P: n/a
Hi

I need to browse the socket-module source-code. I believe it's contained in
the file socketmodule.c, but I can't locate this file... Where should I
look?

regards tores
Sep 29 '05 #1
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25 Replies


P: n/a
Tor Erik Sønvisen wrote:
I need to browse the socket-module source-code. I believe it's contained in
the file socketmodule.c, but I can't locate this file... Where should I
look?


The source tarball, available on python.org. Are people really too lazy
to do elementary research on Google?

--
Erik Max Francis && ma*@alcyone.com && http://www.alcyone.com/max/
San Jose, CA, USA && 37 20 N 121 53 W && AIM erikmaxfrancis
The people are to be taken in very small doses.
-- Ralph Waldo Emerson
Sep 29 '05 #2

P: n/a
In article <dh**********@news.uit.no>,
"Tor Erik Sønvisen" <to***@stud.cs.uit.no> wrote:
Hi

I need to browse the socket-module source-code. I believe it's contained in
the file socketmodule.c, but I can't locate this file... Where should I
look?


I recommend you look in the "Modules" subdirectory of the Python source
tree.

Cheers,
-M

--
Michael J. Fromberger | Lecturer, Dept. of Computer Science
http://www.dartmouth.edu/~sting/ | Dartmouth College, Hanover, NH, USA
Sep 29 '05 #3

P: n/a
On 2005-09-29, Erik Max Francis <ma*@alcyone.com> wrote:
Tor Erik Sønvisen wrote:
I need to browse the socket-module source-code. I believe it's
contained in the file socketmodule.c, but I can't locate this
file... Where should I look?


The source tarball, available on python.org. Are people
really too lazy to do elementary research on Google?


Yes.

--
Grant Edwards grante Yow! One FISHWICH coming
at up!!
visi.com
Sep 29 '05 #4

P: n/a
Erik Max Francis wrote:
Tor Erik Sønvisen wrote:
I need to browse the socket-module source-code. I believe it's
contained in the file socketmodule.c, but I can't locate this file...
Where should I look?


The source tarball, available on python.org. Are people really too lazy
to do elementary research on Google?


Don't know, have you checked Google?
--

hilsen/regards Max M, Denmark

http://www.mxm.dk/
IT's Mad Science
Sep 29 '05 #5

P: n/a
Tor Erik Sønvisen wrote:
I need to browse the socket-module source-code. I believe it's contained in
the file socketmodule.c, but I can't locate this file... Where should I
look?


You can browse the Python CVS tree here:
http://cvs.sourceforge.net/viewcvs.p...thon/dist/src/

For example, the file you asked for is viewable here:
http://cvs.sourceforge.net/viewcvs.p....314&view=auto

Dave
Sep 29 '05 #6

P: n/a
Dave Benjamin wrote:
Tor Erik Sønvisen wrote:
I need to browse the socket-module source-code. I believe it's
contained in the file socketmodule.c, but I can't locate this file...
Where should I look?


You can browse the Python CVS tree here:
http://cvs.sourceforge.net/viewcvs.p...thon/dist/src/

For example, the file you asked for is viewable here:
http://cvs.sourceforge.net/viewcvs.p....314&view=auto


And only three hits down in this Google search:

http://www.google.com/search?q=python+socketmodule.c

plus one additional click on "view" once you're there...

-Peter
Sep 30 '05 #7

P: n/a

"Erik Max Francis" <ma*@alcyone.com> wrote in message
news:Ab********************@speakeasy.net...
Tor Erik Sønvisen wrote:
I need to browse the socket-module source-code. I believe it's contained
in the file socketmodule.c, but I can't locate this file... Where should
I look?


The source tarball, available on python.org. Are people really too lazy
to do elementary research on Google?

--
Erik Max Francis && ma*@alcyone.com && http://www.alcyone.com/max/
San Jose, CA, USA && 37 20 N 121 53 W && AIM erikmaxfrancis
The people are to be taken in very small doses.
-- Ralph Waldo Emerson


Thanks for the answers... And yes, I have searched google!
Sep 30 '05 #8

P: n/a
Tor Erik Sønvisen wrote:
"Erik Max Francis" <ma*@alcyone.com> wrote in message
news:Ab********************@speakeasy.net...
Tor Erik Sønvisen wrote:

I need to browse the socket-module source-code. I believe it's contained
in the file socketmodule.c, but I can't locate this file... Where should
I look?


The source tarball, available on python.org. Are people really too lazy
to do elementary research on Google?

--
Erik Max Francis && ma*@alcyone.com && http://www.alcyone.com/max/
San Jose, CA, USA && 37 20 N 121 53 W && AIM erikmaxfrancis
The people are to be taken in very small doses.
-- Ralph Waldo Emerson

Thanks for the answers... And yes, I have searched google!

As Pythonistas we can all marvel at the utility of Python, possibly
best-known for its many applications at Google. However, I've noticed an
increasing number of replies (quite possibly including some from me, so
I'm not being holier-than-thou in this respect) of the "sheesh, can't
people use Google?" type lately.

However,
Are people really too lazy to do elementary research on Google?


goes a bit too far in imputing motives to the enquirer and overlooking
the fact that there are some very good reasons for *not* using Google.

Since Google and the Python Software Foundation have a relationship
(Google are a sponsor member of the Foundation, were one of the sponsors
of PyCon DC 2005 and employ some Foundation Board members) and since I
am a Board member of the Foundation (there, full disclosure), I hesitate
to suggest that Googling can't fulfil every individual's every needs,
but the bald fact is it's true. [Thinks: if Google stock tanks today I'm
in deep doo-doo here].

Technical people like to pretend there's only technology. The fact that
this is demonstrably not true doesn't appear to condition their
behaviour very much, and on newsgroups, a bastion of testosterone from
the very early days of internetworking (due to network news' tight
interlinking with the dial-up UUCP network that used mainly local calls
to propagate news and mail), the position is at its worst. Note that
we're talking male hormones here, since by and large women don't appear
to have embraced the Python community (except perhaps individually, but
that's no business of mine).

While a snappish "go and look it up on Google" might suffice for a
mouthy apprentice who's just asked their thirteenth question in the last
half hour, it's (shall we say) a little on the brusque side for someone
who only appears on the group last February, and has a history of asking
reasonably pertinent though sometimes beginner-level questions.

In the real world there are many reasons why people interact, and
interactions on c.l.py reflect this diversity. Sometimes it's just (as
Americans say) "gathering round the water cooler": it's good to be in
touch with a number of other people who have the same technical interest
as you, and sometimes you get to say "well done" or interject your own
opinion.

Other people come here for a sense of affirmation ("I wonder if those
Python guys will treat me like a leper if I post on c.l.py?"), amusement
("I wonder what the quote of the week'll be on the python-url"),
intelligence (I wonder if the Twisted guys have produces a new version
of X recently") and even identity ("I'll argue about everything I can
possibly find the minutest hole in so people know that I have a brain
and can use it").

Also, many regular readers didn't grow up speaking English (I was
tempted to omit those last two words and leave it at that, but I won;'t
be quite so extreme today), and so they may not phrase their questions
appropriately. For all I know, there may not be that much Google content
in Norwegian.

In short, this group is a broad church, and those readers with brain s
the size of planets should remember that they are just as much in a
minority as the readers who appear on the list for the first time this
week. The vast majority are here to learn and grow, and I think that's
the sort of behaviour we should be encouraging.

Google is *very* good at delivering information. I use google.com all
the time, and I'm also a Google Earth user. However, we wouldn't be at
all happy if Google just stuck a pipe onto our computers and spewed
information at them three times as fast as it could be read. Bandwidth
on a group like this is precious (which, I recently had to be reminded,
is why it's important Not to Feed the Trolls - trolls eat bandwidth up
like nobody's business, and pretty soon whole days are taken up by
responses to their inanities).

As time goes by I find myself more and more likely, getting to the end
of a possibly sharp or vindictive response, to simply kill the post and
take what pleasure I can from not having shared that particular piece of
small-mindedness with the group. In the end our most valuable
contributions to groups like this can be the gift of being able to walk
away from a fight simply to keep the noise level down.

so-now-thank-me-for-not-saying-all-that-crap-ly y'rs - steve
--
Steve Holden +44 150 684 7255 +1 800 494 3119
Holden Web LLC www.holdenweb.com
PyCon TX 2006 www.python.org/pycon/

Sep 30 '05 #9

P: n/a

[Steve]
In short, this group is a broad church, and those readers with brain s
the size of planets should remember that they are just as much in a
minority as the readers who appear on the list for the first time this
week. The vast majority are here to learn and grow, and I think that's
the sort of behaviour we should be encouraging.
+1 (and +1 QOTW).
As time goes by I find myself more and more likely, getting to the end
of a possibly sharp or vindictive response, to simply kill the post and
take what pleasure I can from not having shared that particular piece of
small-mindedness with the group. In the end our most valuable
contributions to groups like this can be the gift of being able to walk
away from a fight simply to keep the noise level down.


+1 (and +1 QONW).

--
Richie Hindle
ri****@entrian.com
Sep 30 '05 #10

P: n/a
Steve Holden wrote:
While a snappish "go and look it up on Google" might suffice for a
mouthy apprentice who's just asked their thirteenth question in the last
half hour, it's (shall we say) a little on the brusque side for someone
who only appears on the group last February, and has a history of asking
reasonably pertinent though sometimes beginner-level questions.


I told him exactly where it was. I just also pointed out that he could
have trivially found out the answer on his own by using Google for
fifteen seconds. It would be one thing if I (and nobody else) answered
his question and just rudely pointed him to Google. But since I
actually answered his question, looks to me like someone just wanted to
stand on his soapbox today.

--
Erik Max Francis && ma*@alcyone.com && http://www.alcyone.com/max/
San Jose, CA, USA && 37 20 N 121 53 W && AIM erikmaxfrancis
Let he who does not know what war is go to war.
-- (a Spanish proverb)
Sep 30 '05 #11

P: n/a
"Tor Erik Sønvisen" <to***@stud.cs.uit.no> writes:
"Erik Max Francis" <ma*@alcyone.com> wrote in message
news:Ab********************@speakeasy.net...
Tor Erik Sønvisen wrote:
I need to browse the socket-module source-code. I believe it's contained
in the file socketmodule.c, but I can't locate this file... Where should
I look?


The source tarball, available on python.org. Are people really too lazy
to do elementary research on Google?

--
Erik Max Francis && ma*@alcyone.com && http://www.alcyone.com/max/
San Jose, CA, USA && 37 20 N 121 53 W && AIM erikmaxfrancis
The people are to be taken in very small doses.
-- Ralph Waldo Emerson


Thanks for the answers... And yes, I have searched google!


How odd -- the most useful link (the viewcvs page for this source
file) is the very first link for me when I search for socketmodule.c

Does google vary in its results across the globe?
John

Sep 30 '05 #12

P: n/a
John J. Lee wrote:
How odd -- the most useful link (the viewcvs page for this source
file) is the very first link for me when I search for socketmodule.c

Does google vary in its results across the globe?


Actually, yes, although in this case the top result is the same for
both google.no (where I get sent if I go to google.com) and
google.co.uk (where my browser's search field takes me, probably
because of some locale setting or other).

Paul

Sep 30 '05 #13

P: n/a
Steve Holden <st***@holdenweb.com> writes:
However,
>> Are people really too lazy to do elementary research on Google?


goes a bit too far in imputing motives to the enquirer and overlooking
the fact that there are some very good reasons for *not* using Google.


Ok, *what* are the reasons for not using Google?

I agree with Steve - there's no reason to impugn the motives of
someone looking for answers. They may not realize what an excellent
resource Google is. People have to learn how to find answers, just
like they have to learn how to use Python. Suggesting that they check
Google - if they didn't say they already did - is perfectly
reasonable. Assuming they are to lazy to do so is something else
again.

<mike
--
Mike Meyer <mw*@mired.org> http://www.mired.org/home/mwm/
Independent WWW/Perforce/FreeBSD/Unix consultant, email for more information.
Oct 1 '05 #14

P: n/a
Erik Max Francis wrote:
Steve Holden wrote:

While a snappish "go and look it up on Google" might suffice for a
mouthy apprentice who's just asked their thirteenth question in the last
half hour, it's (shall we say) a little on the brusque side for someone
who only appears on the group last February, and has a history of asking
reasonably pertinent though sometimes beginner-level questions.

I told him exactly where it was. I just also pointed out that he could
have trivially found out the answer on his own by using Google for
fifteen seconds. It would be one thing if I (and nobody else) answered
his question and just rudely pointed him to Google. But since I
actually answered his question, looks to me like someone just wanted to
stand on his soapbox today.

I don't think "The source tarball on python.org" could claim to be
telling him "exactly where it was" given that my copy of the web site
has 341 MB of stuff in it.

Just that same, if you are saying that your behaviour didn't really
merit my response then I'd probably agree. Your post was the straw that
broke the camel's back rather than an egregious example of bad manners.
So I'm sorry if it looked as though the soapboxing was directed
primarily at you, which it wasn't.

regards
Steve
--
Steve Holden +44 150 684 7255 +1 800 494 3119
Holden Web LLC www.holdenweb.com
PyCon TX 2006 www.python.org/pycon/

Oct 1 '05 #15

P: n/a
Steve Holden wrote:
I don't think "The source tarball on python.org" could claim to be
telling him "exactly where it was" given that my copy of the web site
has 341 MB of stuff in it.


He doesn't have to search through the whole thing, there's a link on the
front page, so this 341 MB figure is meaningless.

I certainly understand laziness. I don't approve of it, but I can
understand it. But I really don't understand _defending_ laziness.

His grasp of the English language was just fine. He could have gotten
the answer to his question by using Google with less time and effort
than it took him to post to Usenet, wait for a response, and then act on
it. Even if he were totally lazy and selfish, he could have gotten the
answer more easily by using Google for ten seconds. Language was
obviously not a barrier here, since the very words he used in asking the
question could have been typed into a search engine to get exactly the
answer he wanted.

There are plenty of questions that are complex enough, or require
knowing the right terminology which might not be obvious to an
interested amateur, such that a search engine won't be the most
practical way to do research. This was _certainly_ not one of those cases.

--
Erik Max Francis && ma*@alcyone.com && http://www.alcyone.com/max/
San Jose, CA, USA && 37 20 N 121 53 W && AIM erikmaxfrancis
No mistaking / Just reflecting what you radiate
-- Anggun
Oct 1 '05 #16

P: n/a
John J. Lee wrote:
"Tor Erik Sønvisen" <to***@stud.cs.uit.no> writes:
"Erik Max Francis" <ma*@alcyone.com> wrote in message
> Tor Erik Sønvisen wrote:
>> I need to browse the socket-module source-code. I believe it's
>> contained in the file socketmodule.c, but I can't locate this file...
>> Where should I look?
> The source tarball, available on python.org. Are people really too
> lazy to do elementary research on Google? Thanks for the answers... And yes, I have searched google!

.... Does google vary in its results across the globe?


Aside from Paul Boddie's comment to the effect of "yes", there is a very
important thing that people forget - *no everyone is as good at using a
search engine as others*. People are not simply as good at finding the same
information using the same tools as others.

You liken the problem to a library. If you understand how a library is laid
out, you can find the information alot quicker. If however you're looking
in a library for a book on "how to create those odd things for computers"
and you've been told it involves "python" you're as likely to end up in the
fiction section as you are zoology.

If you can't figure out the right search terms you need, google can be
useless. (That said when that happens to me, I tend to either use
kartoo.com or ask a friend)

The search terms might be obvious to you, but it simply means your google-fu
is strong, and the strong should help the weak. (or not attack them at
least...)
Michael.

Oct 1 '05 #17

P: n/a
[Tor Erik Sønvisen]
socketmodule.c, but I can't locate this file... Where should I look?
[John, finding 'socketmodule.c' responds well to "I'm Feeling Lucky"] Does google vary in its results across the globe?
[Michael] The search terms might be obvious to you, but it simply means your google-fu
is strong, and the strong should help the weak. (or not attack them at
least...)


You believe that Tor is dumb enough not to think of searching for
"socketmodule.c" when, um, searching for socketmodule.c?
John

Oct 3 '05 #18

P: n/a
John J. Lee wrote:
[Tor Erik Sønvisen]
socketmodule.c, but I can't locate this file... Where should I look?


[John, finding 'socketmodule.c' responds well to "I'm Feeling Lucky"]
Does google vary in its results across the globe?


[Michael]
The search terms might be obvious to you, but it simply means your
google-fu is strong, and the strong should help the weak. (or not attack
them at least...)


You believe that Tor is dumb enough not to think of searching for
"socketmodule.c" when, um, searching for socketmodule.c?


He said he had tried google - OK, not in the first post but early in this
thread - I don't equate that with being dumb - just dumb luck :-)

Message-ID: <dh***********@news.uit.no>

After all Peter Hansen suggested the search terms "python socketmodule.c"
rather than just "socketmodule.c"

Message-ID: <5N******************************@powergate.ca>

To you the obvious search term was "socketmodule.c" which to me simply means
you're more aligned with Google than Tor :-)

These things happen :-)

Regards,
Michael.

Oct 3 '05 #19

P: n/a
if u just want to browse the code online then use this:

http://fisheye.cenqua.com/viewrep/py...ython/dist/src

*much* nicer than sourceforge cvs viewer

nsz

Oct 3 '05 #20

P: n/a
Michael wrote:
John J. Lee wrote:
You believe that Tor is dumb enough not to think of searching for
"socketmodule.c" when, um, searching for socketmodule.c?


He said he had tried google - OK, not in the first post but early in this
thread - I don't equate that with being dumb - just dumb luck :-)

Message-ID: <dh***********@news.uit.no>

After all Peter Hansen suggested the search terms "python socketmodule.c"
rather than just "socketmodule.c"

Message-ID: <5N******************************@powergate.ca>

To you the obvious search term was "socketmodule.c" which to me simply means
you're more aligned with Google than Tor :-)


Sorry, but this defense is less than weak. Using "python
socketmodule.c" you actually get the right answer as the third result,
while with the even-more-obvious-to-a-rookie "socketmodule.c" you get it
as the *first* result. It would perhaps be fun to experiment to see
just how hard it would be to use "socketmodule.c" plus anything else and
*not* get the result one was looking for. ;-) (note the wink...)

Clearly "Tor" did not try searching Google with two of the most obvious
results, but I think at this point he should be considered to be soundly
thrashed over the matter and we can all move on. This isn't getting any
more interesting...

-Peter
Oct 4 '05 #21

P: n/a
Peter Hansen wrote:
Sorry, but this defense is less than weak. Using "python
socketmodule.c" you actually get the right answer as the third result,
while with the even-more-obvious-to-a-rookie "socketmodule.c" you get it
as the *first* result.


using just "python" gives you a link to the source code download page as
part of the first result.

</F>

Oct 4 '05 #22

P: n/a
On Friday 30 September 2005 04:37 pm, John J. Lee wrote:
"Tor Erik Sønvisen" <to***@stud.cs.uit.no> writes:
Thanks for the answers... And yes, I have searched google!


How odd -- the most useful link (the viewcvs page for this source
file) is the very first link for me when I search for socketmodule.c

Does google vary in its results across the globe?


Of course you meant to be snippy and sarcastic, but you've actually
exemplified the reason why so many people don't find such a thing
with Google. Like all search engines, you have to know the right
keyword -- to a fair degree of precision -- in order to find what
you're looking for.

This is very unlike asking a question of a human being. *People*
respond much better to general subject headings such as "socket
module" or "python sources" rather than looking for something
ultra-specific like a particular file name. Researchers take this
training with them when they approach Google and treat it like
a magic librarian -- they give it the same thing they would come
to a human librarian with.

Of course, that shows they are less adept with machines than you
are, just as your reply shows you are less adept with humans.

Both sides could probably learn from the encounter. ;-)

Seriously, though, for anybody new to using search engines, it
is a very useful rule of thumb -- search for a specific word
likely to appear on the page you are looking for, and not
elsewhere.

This also shows where Google fails and newsgroups succeed: when
you know what you want, but don't know what it's called. Often,
all a poster really needs is the right keyword to use.

--
Terry Hancock ( hancock at anansispaceworks.com )
Anansi Spaceworks http://www.anansispaceworks.com

Oct 7 '05 #23

P: n/a
On Monday 03 October 2005 12:26 pm, John J. Lee wrote:
[Tor Erik Sønvisen]
socketmodule.c, but I can't locate this file... Where should I look?


[John, finding 'socketmodule.c' responds well to "I'm Feeling Lucky"]
Does google vary in its results across the globe?


[Michael]
The search terms might be obvious to you, but it simply means your google-fu
is strong, and the strong should help the weak. (or not attack them at
least...)


You believe that Tor is dumb enough not to think of searching for
"socketmodule.c" when, um, searching for socketmodule.c?


No, ironically, the problem is that Tor is too *smart* to search
for "socketmodule.c" -- it requires *unlearning* the experience
from searching physical libraries where subject catalogs and librarians
are the "search engine". They don't respond to the same type of
search terms as machines do.

--
Terry Hancock ( hancock at anansispaceworks.com )
Anansi Spaceworks http://www.anansispaceworks.com

Oct 7 '05 #24

P: n/a
Terry Hancock <ha*****@anansispaceworks.com> writes:
On Friday 30 September 2005 04:37 pm, John J. Lee wrote:
"Tor Erik Sønvisen" <to***@stud.cs.uit.no> writes:
Thanks for the answers... And yes, I have searched google!
How odd -- the most useful link (the viewcvs page for this source
file) is the very first link for me when I search for socketmodule.c

Does google vary in its results across the globe?


Of course you meant to be snippy and sarcastic,


I really was wondering if such results varied, because it seemed hard
to believe somebody wouldn't do a similar search. And the idea that
he might have been too lazy didn't enter my head <wink>

but you've actually
exemplified the reason why so many people don't find such a thing
with Google. Like all search engines, you have to know the right
keyword -- to a fair degree of precision -- in order to find what
you're looking for.
Oh, come off it. It seems hard to imagine that trying socketmodule.c
when looking for socketmodule.c requires some expert search-fu that
I'm supposed to posess.

This is very unlike asking a question of a human being. *People*
respond much better to general subject headings such as "socket
module" or "python sources" rather than looking for something
ultra-specific like a particular file name.
He wasn't looking for general information. He told us he was looking
for socketmodule.c, for Pete's sake! And "python sources" *does*
takes you to the Python sources.

Researchers take this
training with them when they approach Google and treat it like
a magic librarian -- they give it the same thing they would come
to a human librarian with.
You conjure up in my mind a nice picture of an be-cardiganed gentleman
in an oak-panelled corner of the British Library, in his early
seventies complete with pipe, dust, and technophobia. Seems an
unlikely image for somebody with an email address containing the
string "@stud.cs." and stating their interest in reading networking
code written in C <wink>

Still, going back to researchers-with-pipes ("researcher" meaning
"collator of information" rather than "creator/discoverer of original
ideas"), I perhaps naively assume that such Google-phobic researchers
must nowadays do other work for a living. Who'd want to employ a
researcher who can't efficiently use search engines and other
databases these days? But as I say, I could well be naive here... I
recall my not-astonishment at trying to find a book in a local (but
not small) public library, and finding that the librarian was unable
to do so, despite their apparent enthusiasm at my request, and initial
proud promises that the databases they pay for would find it even if
none of the regional libraries had a copy (due in this case I suspect,
and hasten to add, to the databases simply lacking the relevant
records, rather than incompetence on the part of the librarian). I
walked round the corner and found it on both Amazon and Google in
around a few seconds each time. I had been led to believe books were
something of a library speciality...

In fact, rambling a little further, I can honestly say (in the
certainty and enjoyment of offending any librarians reading <0.75
wink>) that I've never knowingly extracted any useful information from
a librarian, who in legend are supposed to have such old-style
researcher-fu as you refer to. This applies even to pre-Google days,
despite having spent a fair amount of time in libraries, and asking a
fair range of questions over a period of years: some very specific,
some quite general and wooly; some particular, some about general
search strategies and techniques. <sarcasm level="0">Perhaps that
just reflects my interests or level of competence in one way or
another.</sarcasm>

[...] Seriously, though, for anybody new to using search engines, it
is a very useful rule of thumb -- search for a specific word
likely to appear on the page you are looking for, and not
elsewhere.

[...]

It's quite true that has to be learned.
John

Oct 7 '05 #25

P: n/a
Steve Holden <st***@holdenweb.com> wrote:
...
>> Are people really too lazy to do elementary research on Google?

goes a bit too far in imputing motives to the enquirer and overlooking
the fact that there are some very good reasons for *not* using Google.


It's a good thing you don't actually name any of those reasons, tho:-).
we're talking male hormones here, since by and large women don't appear
to have embraced the Python community (except perhaps individually, but
that's no business of mine).
Anna seems to be doing fine, though. She's currently taking a C class
at college and claims "the more I know C, the more I love Python" - and
I gather she's evangelizing (and the class is about 50/50 genderwise;-).
Also, many regular readers didn't grow up speaking English (I was


Yep -- I'm one example of that. Didn't stop Google from hiring me,
though;-).
Alex
Oct 8 '05 #26

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