Recommendations for CVS systems

[geskerrett]

I was wondering if anyone could make recomendations/comments about CVS
systems, their experiences and what perhaps the strengths of each.

Currently we have 2 developers but expect to grow to perhaps 5.

Most of the developement is Python, but some C, Javascript, HTML, etc.

The IDE what have been using/experimenting with are drPython and
eclipse with PyDev.
TIA

[Neil Benn]

ge********@hotmail.com wrote:

I was wondering if anyone could make recomendations/comments about CVS
systems, their experiences and what perhaps the strengths of each.

Currently we have 2 developers but expect to grow to perhaps 5.

Most of the developement is Python, but some C, Javascript, HTML, etc.

The IDE what have been using/experimenting with are drPython and
eclipse with PyDev.
TIA

I use SVN which is excellent (http://subversion.tigris.org/), on a
windows box as a client I use TortoiseSVN which is also excellent. I
have the server running in Apache.

To work in SVN with eclipse you will need an eclipse plugin :
http://subclipse.tigris.org/#subclipse

Neil

--

Neil Benn
Senior Automation Engineer
Cenix BioScience
BioInnovations Zentrum
Tatzberg 47
D-01307
Dresden
Germany

Tel : [phone]
e-mail : be**@cenix-bioscience.com
Cenix Website : http://www.cenix-bioscience.com

[Jorge Godoy]

ge********@hotmail.com wrote:

The IDE what have been using/experimenting with are drPython and
eclipse with PyDev.

Eclipse has a fine integration with both CVS and Subversion. If you'll be
having a lot of images and binary objects or you don't have the design
right by the time you start coding, I'd recommend on using Subversion. If
you do, both are good.

Why Subversion? Because you'll be able to move files around without loosing
their history or without loosing the old filename in the repository.

One dawback is that you'll have to install the Subclipse plugin to use
Subversion, while CVS is already there... But it's as easy as pointing a
new update/install site and clicking on the desired package.

We use both here and recently we've migrated to Subversion as our main VCS.
We noticed that there was a reduction in disk space that can be very
significative depending on the type of file that you'll be working with.

--
Jorge Godoy <go***@ieee.org>

[Jeffrey E. Forcier]

Thirding the Subversion/SVN suggestions. It's generally a newer, better
CVS with some new features and a lot less of the negative features/lack
thereof, of the older system.

If any of your team has CVS experience they should have no real problem
with the switch, and anyone without prior version control experience
will just be that much better off starting with Subversion.

[jussij]

> I was wondering if anyone could make recomendations/comments

about CVS systems
Amoung other things the Zeus for Windows programmer's editor/IDE
comes with integrated CVS support:

http://www.zeusedit.com/features.html
Most of the developement is Python, but some C, Javascript,
HTML, etc.

Zeus also has syntax highlighting and code folding for a dozen
or so languages including Pyhton, C, Javascript and HTML.

Note: Zeus is shareware and comes with a a 45 day fully
functional trial period.

Jussi Jumppanen

[Mike Meyer]

ge********@hotmail.com writes:

I was wondering if anyone could make recomendations/comments about CVS
systems, their experiences and what perhaps the strengths of each.
Perforce. it costs money, but it's worth it. My current client uses
subversion, and I generally wind up cursing at it at least once a
day. Perforce is much smarter about merges and dealing with
branches. Also, if you like using Unix tools to do things like search
your sources or build tags files, Perforce doesn't leave turds in your
development tree.
Currently we have 2 developers but expect to grow to perhaps 5.
You can use the unlicensed server with two developers (and two
clients). I'd recommend giving it a try. If you don't like it, there
are tools to convert the repository to subversion, which seems to be
gettign the most support in your replies.
Most of the developement is Python, but some C, Javascript, HTML, etc.
Perforce integrates really well with python - it can be told to output
marshalled python objects. There's also a nice wrapping for the
perforce library available from PyPI. Building tools to get perforce
to enforce policy in Python is a snap.
The IDE what have been using/experimenting with are drPython and
eclipse with PyDev.

Can't help about that. It integrates nicely with Emacs, and things
that use MS's standard API for talking to source source code control
systems on Windows.

<mike
--
Mike Meyer <mw*@mired.org> http://www.mired.org/home/mwm/
Independent WWW/Perforce/FreeBSD/Unix consultant, email for more information.

[Erik Max Francis]

Mike Meyer wrote:

Perforce. it costs money, but it's worth it. My current client uses
subversion, and I generally wind up cursing at it at least once a
day. Perforce is much smarter about merges and dealing with
branches. Also, if you like using Unix tools to do things like search
your sources or build tags files, Perforce doesn't leave turds in your
development tree.

It also is free for personal use (up to 2 clients, 2 users) and open
soruce projects can get free licenses. Or at least it was so the last I
checked.

--
Erik Max Francis && ma*@alcyone.com && http://www.alcyone.com/max/
San Jose, CA, USA && 37 20 N 121 53 W && AIM erikmaxfrancis
The only way to get rid of a temptation is to yield to it.
-- Oscar Wilde

[François Pinard]

[Mike Meyer]

[...] I generally wind up cursing at [subversion] at least once a day.

Would you accept elaborating a bit on the motivations of the cursing?

Your message says Perforce does nice things, one might fuzzily imply
that Subversion is bad or misbehaves on the same, but I do not read any
definite assertion against Subversion. Having Perforce better does not
necessarily makes Subversion bad. So my question. :-)

--
François Pinard http://pinard.progiciels-bpi.ca

[Mike Meyer]

In <20********************@alcyon.progiciels-bpi.ca>, François Pinard<pi****@iro.umontreal.ca> typed:

[Mike Meyer]

[...] I generally wind up cursing at [subversion] at least once a day.

Would you accept elaborating a bit on the motivations of the cursing?
Your message says Perforce does nice things, one might fuzzily imply
that Subversion is bad or misbehaves on the same, but I do not read any
definite assertion against Subversion. Having Perforce better does not
necessarily makes Subversion bad. So my question. :-)

Well, the only thing that subversion does that I'd call bad is leave
turds in my development directory. I'm tired of having to tell
commands to ignore .svn files. Of course, Perforce is the only source
control system I know of that doesn't do this.

Subversion doesn't deal as well with merges as perforce. I wouldn't
say subversion is bad - but Perforce is better.

In the one interfile branch I've done, subversion doesn't remember
what deltas have already been applied to the branch, forcing me to
work that out from the log every time I want to bring the branch up to
date. I may have done the branch improperly, as I did it the first day
I was using svn. But perforces branching model is file-based, so
there's no way to do this wrong.

<mike
--
Mike Meyer <mw*@mired.org> http://www.mired.org/consulting.html
Independent Network/Unix/Perforce consultant, email for more information.

[Jeff Schwab]

Mike Meyer wrote:

Well, the only thing that subversion does that I'd call bad is leave
turds in my development directory. I'm tired of having to tell
commands to ignore .svn files. Of course, Perforce is the only source
control system I know of that doesn't do this.

ClearCase is really good about this, too, though expensive. It
definitely requires a different mindset from CVS and Subversion.

I'm told Vesta is ClearCase-like. If anyone here has used it recently,
I would love to hear their opinion.

[Roy Smith]

Mike Meyer <mw*@mired.org> wrote:

My current client uses subversion, and I generally wind up cursing at it
at least once a day.

What makes you curse at it? I've never actually used it, just been
watching the project for several years. I'd be interested to hear your
experiences.

[Roy Smith]

Mike Meyer <mw*@mired.org> wrote:

Well, the only thing that subversion does that I'd call bad is leave
turds in my development directory. I'm tired of having to tell
commands to ignore .svn files. Of course, Perforce is the only source
control system I know of that doesn't do this.

My recollection is that Clearcase is turd-free.

[Terry Reedy]

"Jeffrey E. Forcier" <jf******@strozllc.com> wrote in message
news:11**********************@g14g2000cwa.googlegr oups.com...

Thirding the Subversion/SVN suggestions. It's generally a newer, better
CVS with some new features and a lot less of the negative features/lack
thereof, of the older system.

For what it is worth, the Python developers are discussing moving the
Python codebase to subversion, though other options were discussed. The
result so far is PE 347 Migrating the Python CVS to Subversion.

Terry J. Reedy

[Neal Becker]

ge********@hotmail.com wrote:

I was wondering if anyone could make recomendations/comments about CVS
systems, their experiences and what perhaps the strengths of each.

Currently we have 2 developers but expect to grow to perhaps 5.

Most of the developement is Python, but some C, Javascript, HTML, etc.

The IDE what have been using/experimenting with are drPython and
eclipse with PyDev.

For a python newsgroup, you are required to consider mercurial. It's not
ready for production use yet, but is making rapid progress, and many
(including myself) are using it.

[Aahz]

In article <Wf*****************************************@speak easy.net>,
Erik Max Francis <ma*@alcyone.com> wrote:

It also is free for personal use (up to 2 clients, 2 users) and open
soruce projects can get free licenses. Or at least it was so the last I
checked.

For anything mission-critical, I wouldn't want to rely on a free license.
At least if it's Open Source and someone plays with the license, someone
else will fork (c.f. XFree86). Alternatively, I am sometimes willing to
pay for good closed-source software.
--
Aahz (aa**@pythoncraft.com) <*> http://www.pythoncraft.com/

The way to build large Python applications is to componentize and
loosely-couple the hell out of everything.

[Aahz]

In article <ma***************************************@python. org>,
Neal Becker <nd*******@gmail.com> wrote:

For a python newsgroup, you are required to consider mercurial. It's not
ready for production use yet, but is making rapid progress, and many
(including myself) are using it.

Why do you say "required" when the next sentence you say it's not ready
for production?
--
Aahz (aa**@pythoncraft.com) <*> http://www.pythoncraft.com/

The way to build large Python applications is to componentize and
loosely-couple the hell out of everything.

[Aahz]

In article <ma***************************************@python. org>,
Terry Reedy <tj*****@udel.edu> wrote:

"Jeffrey E. Forcier" <jf******@strozllc.com> wrote in message
news:11**********************@g14g2000cwa.googleg roups.com...

Thirding the Subversion/SVN suggestions. It's generally a newer, better
CVS with some new features and a lot less of the negative features/lack
thereof, of the older system.

For what it is worth, the Python developers are discussing moving the
Python codebase to subversion, though other options were discussed. The
result so far is PE 347 Migrating the Python CVS to Subversion.

While you're technically correct, at this point it's closer to "planning
the move to Subversion".
--
Aahz (aa**@pythoncraft.com) <*> http://www.pythoncraft.com/

The way to build large Python applications is to componentize and
loosely-couple the hell out of everything.

[skip]

For a python newsgroup, you are required to consider mercurial. It's
not ready for production use yet, but is making rapid progress, ...

aahz> Why do you say "required" when the next sentence you say it's not
aahz> ready for production?

I believe "consider" != "adopt". Different people's needs are different, so
the notion of how "production-ready" it has to be will vary.

Skip

[Erik Max Francis]

Aahz wrote:

For anything mission-critical, I wouldn't want to rely on a free license.

If it's mission critical, in the worst case scenario you can just pay
for a modest license. And, as I said, it's free for use for personal
use -- no license is required, it just works. They can't force
upgrades, so even if they changed that policy in the future, they can't
take that away from you.

--
Erik Max Francis && ma*@alcyone.com && http://www.alcyone.com/max/
San Jose, CA, USA && 37 20 N 121 53 W && AIM erikmaxfrancis
A father is a thousand schoolmasters.
-- Louis Nizer

[Terry Reedy]

"Aahz" <aa**@pythoncraft.com> wrote in message
news:dd**********@panix1.panix.com...

In article <ma***************************************@python. org>,
Terry Reedy <tj*****@udel.edu> wrote:

For what it is worth, the Python developers are discussing moving the
Python codebase to subversion, though other options were discussed. The
result so far is PE 347 Migrating the Python CVS to Subversion.

While you're technically correct, at this point it's closer to "planning
the move to Subversion".

No, I was exactly correct as to what I stated. The difference between
'discussing' and 'planning' is pretty small and the fact that some might be
'planning' does not negate 'discussing'. In fact, alternatives were still
being discussed as of earlier today, with Guido sharing his experience with
Perforce.

Terry J. Reedy

[François Pinard]

[Aahz]

For anything mission-critical, I wouldn't want to rely on a free license.

For anything mission-critical, I wouldn't want to rely on closed sources...

Could the best be open source and non-free license? :-)

--
François Pinard http://pinard.progiciels-bpi.ca

[Mike Meyer]

aa**@pythoncraft.com (Aahz) writes:

In article <Wf*****************************************@speak easy.net>,
Erik Max Francis <ma*@alcyone.com> wrote:

It also is free for personal use (up to 2 clients, 2 users) and open
soruce projects can get free licenses. Or at least it was so the last I
checked.

For anything mission-critical, I wouldn't want to rely on a free license.
At least if it's Open Source and someone plays with the license, someone
else will fork (c.f. XFree86). Alternatively, I am sometimes willing to
pay for good closed-source software.

To my mind, Perforce qualifes for that last sentence. It's solid
software, with excellent support, from people who really understand
both software development and the open source software movement.

<mike
--
Mike Meyer <mw*@mired.org> http://www.mired.org/home/mwm/
Independent WWW/Perforce/FreeBSD/Unix consultant, email for more information.