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Which compiler will Python 2.5 / Windows (Intel) be built with?

Hi everyone,

which compiler will Python 2.5 on Windows (Intel) be built with? I
notice that Python 2.4 apparently has been built with the VS2003
toolkit compiler, and I read a post from Scott David Daniels [1] where
he said that probably the VS2003 toolkit will be used for Python 2.5
again. However, even before the release of Python 2.5, I cannot seem to
find many retailers around here that still carry Visual Studio 2003,
and some were a bit surprised about my request since Visual Studio 2005
has been available for some months now. Even more importantly, there
does not seem to be an official way to still get the 2003 toolkit from
Microsoft. The site where it used to be available [2] now redirects you
to the 2005 toolkit. The 2003 toolkit also seems to have disappeared
from the browseable downloads on the Microsoft page. Searching for
VCToolkitSetup. exe on the net, I found a few pages that still appear to
carry the file, but most are down or just redirect to a broken link on
the Microsoft site. That means that if Python 2.5 will be based on the
2003 toolkit compiler, it will be increasingly difficult to get a
compiler for extensions.

Since we have some Python extensions here that use MFC internally (MFC
is only available in the retail version of Visual Studio .NET), we need
to know in which compiler we have to invest to keep our extensions
compatible with Python 2.5. Furthermore, since we also have legacy C++
applications that link to the same libraries that are also used in the
Python extensions, we would be disappointed when we now had to switch
to Visual Studio 2003 just to be compatible with Python 2.5, loosing
official support from Microsoft in near future, and having to use an
outdated compiler throughout the lifetime of Python 2.5.

Thanks in advance for your comments!
Markus Meyer

[1] Google Groups: Python 2.5 Schedule (18 messages)
http://groups.google.ca/group/comp.l...484c24cc?hl=en

[2] Microsoft Visual C++ Toolkit 2003
http://msdn.microsoft.com/visualc/vctoolkit2003/

Jun 15 '06 #1
48 4939
me***@mesw.de wrote:
Hi everyone,

which compiler will Python 2.5 on Windows (Intel) be built with?


Same as for Python 2.4 (the decision was taken a while ago).
Intel sells a compatible compiler, I believe.
--
--Scott David Daniels
sc***********@a cm.org
Jun 15 '06 #2
Scott David Daniels napisa³(a):
which compiler will Python 2.5 on Windows (Intel) be built with?


Same as for Python 2.4 (the decision was taken a while ago).
Intel sells a compatible compiler, I believe.


Sounds rather bad.

Anyway, there should be some kits available from second-hand at auction
websites. Besides no free (as in "free beer") toolkit will be available,
as noone except Microsoft can distribute it.

--
Jarek Zgoda
http://jpa.berlios.de/
Jun 15 '06 #3
me***@mesw.de wrote:
Hi everyone,

which compiler will Python 2.5 on Windows (Intel) be built with? I
notice that Python 2.4 apparently has been built with the VS2003
toolkit compiler, and I read a post from Scott David Daniels [1] where
he said that probably the VS2003 toolkit will be used for Python 2.5
again. However, even before the release of Python 2.5, I cannot seem to
find many retailers around here that still carry Visual Studio 2003,
and some were a bit surprised about my request since Visual Studio 2005
has been available for some months now. ...


If you want to *buy* VS 2003, you could still purchase a 1-year MSDN
Pro Subscription. The price difference isn't *that* big compared to a
single-user license of VS, and it automatically includes past VS
versions (everything from VC++ 6.0 and upwards, IIRC).

Jun 15 '06 #4
nikie napisa³(a):
If you want to *buy* VS 2003, you could still purchase a 1-year MSDN
Pro Subscription. The price difference isn't *that* big compared to a
single-user license of VS, and it automatically includes past VS
versions (everything from VC++ 6.0 and upwards, IIRC).


This doesn't make building Python exension libraries any easier.

In some cases, you can still build Python extension with MinGW. I didn't
try this with anything more complicated than linking to libxml2, but
still, it's some workaround. Not sure about the performace of such
build, though.

--
Jarek Zgoda
http://jpa.berlios.de/
Jun 15 '06 #5
me***@mesw.de wrote:
Hi everyone,

which compiler will Python 2.5 on Windows (Intel) be built with?


The default build will be the VC 2003 compiler as for 2.4, but there
will also be VC 2005 project support files in a PCBuild8 subdirectory,
if current efforts by CCP succeed. I am certainly compiling the 2.5
trunk with VC 2005 (VC++ 8.0, IIRC).

It would be great if Tim Peters got more support for his efforts in that
area, so it's good to see people besides Tim, Mark Hammond and Martin
von Loewis doing significant work on that platform.

Eventually someone may contribute (say) mingw support, but I'm not aware
that anyone has yet stood up for the challenge of getting that into the
distributions (and anyway I suspect that VC 200X will remain the default).

regards
Steve
--
Steve Holden +44 150 684 7255 +1 800 494 3119
Holden Web LLC/Ltd http://www.holdenweb.com
Love me, love my blog http://holdenweb.blogspot.com
Recent Ramblings http://del.icio.us/steve.holden

Jun 15 '06 #6
Scott,

Scott David Daniels wrote:
me***@mesw.de wrote:
Hi everyone,

which compiler will Python 2.5 on Windows (Intel) be built with?


Same as for Python 2.4 (the decision was taken a while ago).
Intel sells a compatible compiler, I believe.


the problem is not the ABI, but the runtime libraries. From what you're
saying, it looks like we will have to standardize on VS2003. As I said,
we need to buy VS anyway because of the MFC support. On the other hand,
I really worry about all those people that want to build open source
extensions for Python 2.5. It is really possible that there will be no
legal, free way to do that soon if you don't have an old installation
of the 2003 toolkit lying around somewhere... So I'd like to ask you:
why was the decision taken a while ago (and is not subject to
reconsideration ) and what are the reasons for using VS2003? I mean
there must be a real good reason why you're doing this, as I only see
disadvantages in it.
Markus

Jun 15 '06 #7
Jarek Zgoda wrote:
nikie napisa³(a):
If you want to *buy* VS 2003, you could still purchase a 1-year MSDN
Pro Subscription. The price difference isn't *that* big compared to a
single-user license of VS, and it automatically includes past VS
versions (everything from VC++ 6.0 and upwards, IIRC).


This doesn't make building Python exension libraries any easier.

In some cases, you can still build Python extension with MinGW. I didn't
try this with anything more complicated than linking to libxml2, but
still, it's some workaround. Not sure about the performace of such
build, though.

--
Jarek Zgoda
http://jpa.berlios.de/


I haven't personally tried a Python compile w/ this, but I'll
share it in hopes that it'll help: one can download a free copy
of Visual C++ 2K5 *Express* from microsoft itself. If you're
interested, try:

http://msdn.microsoft.com/vstudio/ex...c/default.aspx

It's legal, free (no registration, no BS.) HTH....MR

Jun 15 '06 #8
Mr Roboto wrote:
I haven't personally tried a Python compile w/ this, but I'll
share it in hopes that it'll help: one can download a free copy
of Visual C++ 2K5 *Express* from microsoft itself. If you're
interested, try:


The problem is, when you compile an extension module with VS (Express)
2005 and try to load it in a VS2003-compiled Python (which apparently
2.5 will be), there will be errors. So you have to recompile Python
itself with VS2005. This in turn will make it incompatible with any
binary open-source extension out there. E.g., if you use wxPython, you
will then have to recompile that also etc. pp. Also, since there is no
"official" support for the build with VS 2005, it is not clear, if the
differences in the compiler will introduce subtile bugs, say in memory
handling and the like. All in all, this situation feels not good to
me...
Markus

Jun 15 '06 #9
me***@mesw.de wrote:
the problem is not the ABI, but the runtime libraries. From what you're
saying, it looks like we will have to standardize on VS2003. As I said,
we need to buy VS anyway because of the MFC support. On the other hand,
I really worry about all those people that want to build open source
extensions for Python 2.5. It is really possible that there will be no
legal, free way to do that soon if you don't have an old installation
of the 2003 toolkit lying around somewhere... So I'd like to ask you:
why was the decision taken a while ago (and is not subject to
reconsideration ) and what are the reasons for using VS2003? I mean
there must be a real good reason why you're doing this, as I only see
disadvantages in it.


hint: most people who provide third-party extensions to Python support
more than just the latest Python version...

</F>

Jun 15 '06 #10

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