473,723 Members | 2,218 Online
Bytes | Software Development & Data Engineering Community
+ Post

Home Posts Topics Members FAQ

Zope 3.0, and why I won't use it

Hello all,

So Zope still lives, yay. Well, I like that they use Python.

<rant>

What amazed me is they write that they "added types to the variables
and hope that it will be added to the Python project too". Really.
ROFL.

And instead of working on the engine they should have put more work
into examples. Simple tutorials. Downloadable executables for
Windows that you can click and install. But most of all simple and
good examples: webapplications like
- a wiki in zope
- a forum in zope, with agenda and calendar
- a game like http://216.199.69.100/war/ in zope

They have a nice free webhosting thing for zope, but to expect new
users to do everything from scratch...
The "examples" I found were very disappointing.

</rant>
Jul 18 '05 #1
47 2606
> Guido has repeatedly stated that a future version of Python will include static type support. The Zope project has driven numerous past changes to Python. What's funny about this?

It sounds very "unpythonic " :) A link or two to some site that
explains a little more what "static type support" means to Python
would be nice.

--
mvh Björn
Jul 18 '05 #2
Will Stuyvesant wrote:
And instead of working on the engine they should have put more work
into examples. Simple tutorials.


What has been released is not Zope 3
but Zope X3 where the X stands for eXperimental.

The way I understood it they want to showcase the
technology and system architecture. So don't knock
it for what is not meant to be.

Istvan.

ps. that being said I, after a few hours of fooling
around with it I found it to be more complicated
than ever ... and it was not clear what is it
that we gain from paying that price. We'll see how it
evolves.
Jul 18 '05 #3
Istvan Albert wrote:
Will Stuyvesant wrote:
And instead of working on the engine they should have put more work
into examples. Simple tutorials.

What has been released is not Zope 3
but Zope X3 where the X stands for eXperimental.

The way I understood it they want to showcase the
technology and system architecture. So don't knock
it for what is not meant to be.

Istvan.

ps. that being said I, after a few hours of fooling
around with it I found it to be more complicated
than ever ... and it was not clear what is it
that we gain from paying that price. We'll see how it
evolves.


You managed to get it to run? I found the whole load opaque beyond
belief, and removed it after an hour's examination.

regards
Steve
--
http://www.holdenweb.com
http://pydish.holdenweb.com
Holden Web LLC +1 800 494 3119
Jul 18 '05 #4
Steve Holden wrote:
You managed to get it to run? I found the whole load opaque beyond
belief, and removed it after an hour's examination.


I had no problems whatsoever ... on the other hand I
been using Zope 2.7 for a more than a year so
that might have helped me.

In Zope X3 they make a big deal out of interfaces,
everything seems to revolve around that.

http://dev.zope.org/Wikis/DevSite/Pr...nterfaces.html

then I looked at this,

http://dev.zope.org/Wikis/DevSite/Pr...Page/Zope3Book

totally overwhelming. But I have confidence in
the Zope developers. I have had good experience with Zope
in general, did not let me down yet ... in the way
a few years back for example Tomcat would crash
if one set a cookie value that had a newline character
in it.
Istvan.
Jul 18 '05 #5
Istvan Albert wrote:
Steve Holden wrote:
You managed to get it to run? I found the whole load opaque beyond
belief, and removed it after an hour's examination.

I had no problems whatsoever ... on the other hand I
been using Zope 2.7 for a more than a year so
that might have helped me.

In Zope X3 they make a big deal out of interfaces,
everything seems to revolve around that.

http://dev.zope.org/Wikis/DevSite/Pr...nterfaces.html
then I looked at this,

http://dev.zope.org/Wikis/DevSite/Pr...Page/Zope3Book
totally overwhelming. But I have confidence in
the Zope developers. I have had good experience with Zope
in general, did not let me down yet ... in the way
a few years back for example Tomcat would crash
if one set a cookie value that had a newline character
in it.

Well indeed, the developers are a bunch of smart cookies (no pun
intended). But I still await a comprehensible description of how the
whole system works for 2.7, let alone X3 - how to put sites together,
and the best way to achieve various results, and so on.

Searching for information about Zope is a nightmare of broken links and
outdated content that makes it difficult to find one's way through to
the really useful stuff.

regards
Steve
--
http://www.holdenweb.com
http://pydish.holdenweb.com
Holden Web LLC +1 800 494 3119
Jul 18 '05 #6
Steve Holden wrote:
how to put sites together, and the best way to achieve
various results, and so on.
The entire Zope Book is available online:

http://www.zope.org/Documentation/Bo..._6Edition/view

I consider that as good of a startup documentation as it can
get. This covers 2.6 but as far as I could tell the only
major change that 2.7 introduced relates to the way
the zope sites are stored on the file system, they became
better separated (a much needed improvement BTW).
It is not an easy read though.
Searching for information about Zope is a nightmare of
broken links and outdated content


I did notice that too. In all fairness most of that content
is already in the Zope book and sometimes I wonder whether
it was the online availability of this latter was the
cause of it all.

Istvan.

PS. just noticed that they have a 2.7 edition of the Zope book
but it is being written:
http://www.plope.com/Books/2_7Edition
Jul 18 '05 #7
Will Stuyvesant wrote:
And instead of working on the engine they should have put more work
into examples. Simple tutorials. Downloadable executables for
Windows that you can click and install.
The gripe about Zope has allways been that it was too difficult for
developers.

The Zope developers had a pretty good idea as to why. So they developed
a new version of Zope that changed that. They have done a pretty fin job
too.

But most of all simple and
good examples: webapplications like
- a wiki in zope
- a forum in zope, with agenda and calendar
- a game like http://216.199.69.100/war/ in zope
You mean completely unlike:
http://svn.zope.org/book/trunk/messageboard/

They have a nice free webhosting thing for zope, but to expect new
users to do everything from scratch...
The "examples" I found were very disappointing.


Have you looked at Plone at all?

--

hilsen/regards Max M, Denmark

http://www.mxm.dk/
IT's Mad Science
Jul 18 '05 #8
Steve Holden wrote:
You managed to get it to run? I found the whole load opaque beyond
belief, and removed it after an hour's examination.


Where you on Windows or Linux?

--

hilsen/regards Max M, Denmark

http://www.mxm.dk/
IT's Mad Science
Jul 18 '05 #9
- Will Stuyvesant :
Hello all,

So Zope still lives, yay. Well, I like that they use Python.

<rant>

What amazed me is they write that they "added types to the variables
and hope that it will be added to the Python project too". Really.
ROFL.
Sorry, probably I'm just tired (work to buy coffee <-> drink coffee to
work inifite loop, as usual :p), but I can't find where exactly they
made such a claim. I'm really interested in this because a friend of
mine (Volonghi) asked me exactly the same question... I think that
"someone - somewhere" misunderstood what interfaces are, but I'm not
sure. The only thing I'm sure is that I'm writing components for ZopeX3
in plain old good Python from milestone 3 :)
And instead of working on the engine they should have put more work
into examples. Simple tutorials.
What about the programmers tutorial (http://snipurl.com/amy9) and the
Developer Book (http://snipurl.com/amyb) ?
Downloadable executables for Windows that you can click and install.
Like the .exe here http://snipurl.com/amyd ? I'm not a Windows user,
sorry, can't really help here :)
But most of all simple and good examples: webapplications like
- a wiki in zope
http://snipurl.com/amyh
- a forum in zope, with agenda and calendar
Maybe the example of the developer book can help: Stephan explains the
main concepts of ZX3 by implementing a messageboard.
- a game like http://216.199.69.100/war/ in zope
Can't help here. BTW, I think that the zwiki, the bugtracker and all the
documentation is enought for now - I've seen too much ultrastable
software with a man page and an hello world called "documentat ion" to
complain the developers for that :)
They have a nice free webhosting thing for zope, but to expect new
users to do everything from scratch...
The "examples" I found were very disappointing.


Why ? ...

HAND,
ngw
Jul 18 '05 #10

This thread has been closed and replies have been disabled. Please start a new discussion.

Similar topics

3
4931
by: Sig | last post by:
Hi there, Could you help me finding out whether Zope could be a serious technological framework for big corporation (compared to J2EE and ..Net) or not ? In the (quite very) big corporation I work in, the IT managers are wondering about the future of web technologies for our intranets. Currently, we run web applications in many technologies : heavy J2EE (EJB...), light J2EE (JSP), ASP.Net, ASP, PHP, ... Our big IT boss
2
1475
by: mxlplx | last post by:
I'm currently working on a project to convert an Interwoven-based site to use Zope instead. Has anyone attempted this before and if so, were you able to do it with Zope? Could you use the XML files produced by Interwoven? Any ideas would be appreciated.
1
1403
by: Lukasz Indyk | last post by:
i work in programming team that has 6 members. we develop our application in Zope, and we write code using ZMI (Zope Management Interface). we want to use cvs to control versions of our software. is it possible use cvs with Zope (without abandoming ZMI), or is there any other solution that give similar features like cvs and can be used with ZMI?
4
2338
by: Jochen Demuth | last post by:
Hi, I am trying to install ZWiki on Zope 2.5.1 / Debian 2.4.20-bf2.4-xfs. First I copied the contents of the ZWiki-0.32.0.tgz to the Products-directory under SOFTWARE_HOME: This is what it contained before: server1:/usr/lib/zope/lib/python/Products# ls ExternalMethod PageTemplates StandardCacheManagers ZSQLMethods Hotfix_2002-06-14 PluginIndexes TemporaryFolder ZopeTutorial
9
1604
by: john | last post by:
Hi I am developing a timesheet system. It will have 3 levels of access 1)Administrator 2)Approver -- Will approve or reject the timesheet filled by employees 3)Employees -- Fill in the timesheet which will ontain info like start time & end for task & task description. There will be different projects with different employees & approvers Also I need to genrate reports like timesheet for an employee for this particular week or month.Or...
4
1406
by: John Benson | last post by:
Hi, I've been reading the above-titled book and it looks like some major Python and Zope features have been cherry-picked for pushing down into .NET, like application memory management (Python interpreter), and prefabricated website user management (Zope). I know that these didn't originate with Python and Zope, and also that .NET adds extra Microsoft-specific goodies. However, the real possibility is that the Microsoft-centricity of...
0
2126
by: Unigroup of New York | last post by:
Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------C465DF38DCB38DD2AF7117E0" Lines: 327 Date: Tue, 15 Feb 2005 23:36:38 -0500 NNTP-Posting-Host: 24.46.113.251 X-Complaints-To: abuse@cv.net X-Trace: fe12.lga 1108528794 24.46.113.251 (Tue, 15 Feb 2005 21:39:54 MST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 15 Feb 2005 21:39:54 MST Xref: number1.nntp.dca.giganews.com comp.lang.python:398656
4
1599
by: Avery Warren | last post by:
I am investigating converting a wiki site to plone. I am having a lot of difficulty finding good documentation programmatically accessing the ZODB API. A lot of the user feedback is centered on how difficult it is to get good documentation on developing using these technologies. My question to comp.lang.python is "what is your opinion of zope?" For those who don't know, zope is a web application server for python developers.
21
1605
by: godwin | last post by:
Hi all, I wanna thank Martin for helping out with my ignorance concerning execution of stored procedure with python. Now i have decided to write a web app that googles into my companies proprietary database. I need to know whether zope is good for that job. But even the introduction to zope in the zope book was intimidating. Are there any simple options? If so plz tell me how i can obtain it and study it. I should say that i am new to web...
0
8868
marktang
by: marktang | last post by:
ONU (Optical Network Unit) is one of the key components for providing high-speed Internet services. Its primary function is to act as an endpoint device located at the user's premises. However, people are often confused as to whether an ONU can Work As a Router. In this blog post, we’ll explore What is ONU, What Is Router, ONU & Router’s main usage, and What is the difference between ONU and Router. Let’s take a closer look ! Part I. Meaning of...
0
9388
Oralloy
by: Oralloy | last post by:
Hello folks, I am unable to find appropriate documentation on the type promotion of bit-fields when using the generalised comparison operator "<=>". The problem is that using the GNU compilers, it seems that the internal comparison operator "<=>" tries to promote arguments from unsigned to signed. This is as boiled down as I can make it. Here is my compilation command: g++-12 -std=c++20 -Wnarrowing bit_field.cpp Here is the code in...
0
9241
jinu1996
by: jinu1996 | last post by:
In today's digital age, having a compelling online presence is paramount for businesses aiming to thrive in a competitive landscape. At the heart of this digital strategy lies an intricately woven tapestry of website design and digital marketing. It's not merely about having a website; it's about crafting an immersive digital experience that captivates audiences and drives business growth. The Art of Business Website Design Your website is...
0
9090
tracyyun
by: tracyyun | last post by:
Dear forum friends, With the development of smart home technology, a variety of wireless communication protocols have appeared on the market, such as Zigbee, Z-Wave, Wi-Fi, Bluetooth, etc. Each protocol has its own unique characteristics and advantages, but as a user who is planning to build a smart home system, I am a bit confused by the choice of these technologies. I'm particularly interested in Zigbee because I've heard it does some...
1
6685
isladogs
by: isladogs | last post by:
The next Access Europe User Group meeting will be on Wednesday 1 May 2024 starting at 18:00 UK time (6PM UTC+1) and finishing by 19:30 (7.30PM). In this session, we are pleased to welcome a new presenter, Adolph Dupré who will be discussing some powerful techniques for using class modules. He will explain when you may want to use classes instead of User Defined Types (UDT). For example, to manage the data in unbound forms. Adolph will...
0
5996
by: conductexam | last post by:
I have .net C# application in which I am extracting data from word file and save it in database particularly. To store word all data as it is I am converting the whole word file firstly in HTML and then checking html paragraph one by one. At the time of converting from word file to html my equations which are in the word document file was convert into image. Globals.ThisAddIn.Application.ActiveDocument.Select();...
0
4504
by: TSSRALBI | last post by:
Hello I'm a network technician in training and I need your help. I am currently learning how to create and manage the different types of VPNs and I have a question about LAN-to-LAN VPNs. The last exercise I practiced was to create a LAN-to-LAN VPN between two Pfsense firewalls, by using IPSEC protocols. I succeeded, with both firewalls in the same network. But I'm wondering if it's possible to do the same thing, with 2 Pfsense firewalls...
0
4764
by: adsilva | last post by:
A Windows Forms form does not have the event Unload, like VB6. What one acts like?
2
2612
muto222
by: muto222 | last post by:
How can i add a mobile payment intergratation into php mysql website.

By using Bytes.com and it's services, you agree to our Privacy Policy and Terms of Use.

To disable or enable advertisements and analytics tracking please visit the manage ads & tracking page.