embedded postgresql

[jini us]

Hi,

I am starting a new project where I intend to use
embedded database server in my win32 application.
I intend to use VC++ microsoft studio 6.0 as my
development environment.

The postgres.org website seems to be catering for
people with all sorts of requirements and platforms.

1. Where can I find the binary distribution so that I
can use postgres server as an embedded database.
I assume it is a .dll

2. Also I would like to have the documentation which
shows how to start & stop the server programmatically
and execute sql, to create a database, use select
insert , update etc.

3. Is it correct that I do not have to pay any user
licences.
Postgres is free not only for development but also I
can include it in my software package.

Thanks.


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[Joshua D. Drake]

jini us wrote:

Hi,

I am starting a new project where I intend to use
embedded database server in my win32 application.
I intend to use VC++ microsoft studio 6.0 as my
development environment.

The postgres.org website seems to be catering for
people with all sorts of requirements and platforms.

1. Where can I find the binary distribution so that I
can use postgres server as an embedded database.
I assume it is a .dll

No... PostgreSQL is a database server, thus you connect to it via TCP/IP
or domain sockets (preferrably TCP/IP).

Also an emulation layer such as Cygwin will be required to use PostgreSQL
on Windows.
2. Also I would like to have the documentation which
shows how to start & stop the server programmatically
and execute sql, to create a database, use select
insert , update etc.
www.postgresql.org click on docs.

3. Is it correct that I do not have to pay any user
licences.
Postgres is free not only for development but also I
can include it in my software package.
Yes that is correct.

Thanks.


_________________________________________________ _______________________
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--
Command Prompt, Inc., home of Mammoth PostgreSQL - S/ODBC and S/JDBC
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[jini us]

It is a shame that postgres is not available as an
embedded server unlike mysql database server which
comes in the form of a dll.

However with mysql licence I would have to pay $10,000
if I wish to include it in mysql as an embedded server
in my app.

mysql database server is also a TCP/IP socket server
whether embedded or otherwise.

--- "Joshua D. Drake" <[e-mail]> wrote: >
jini us wrote:

Hi,

I am starting a new project where I intend to use
embedded database server in my win32 application.
I intend to use VC++ microsoft studio 6.0 as my
development environment.

The postgres.org website seems to be catering for
people with all sorts of requirements and

platforms.

1. Where can I find the binary distribution so that

I

can use postgres server as an embedded database.
I assume it is a .dll

No... PostgreSQL is a database server, thus you
connect to it via TCP/IP
or domain sockets (preferrably TCP/IP).

Also an emulation layer such as Cygwin will be
required to use PostgreSQL
on Windows.

2. Also I would like to have the documentation

which

shows how to start & stop the server

programmatically

and execute sql, to create a database, use select
insert , update etc.

www.postgresql.org click on docs.

3. Is it correct that I do not have to pay any user
licences.
Postgres is free not only for development but also

I

can include it in my software package.

Yes that is correct.

Thanks.

_________________________________________________ _______________________

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--
Command Prompt, Inc., home of Mammoth PostgreSQL -
S/ODBC and S/JDBC
Postgresql support, programming shared hosting and
dedicated hosting.
[phone] - [e-mail] -
http://www.commandprompt.com
Editor-N-Chief - PostgreSQl.Org -
http://www.postgresql.org

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[Joshua D. Drake]

Hello,

Are you sure you are not thinking of just the libpq.dll? That would allow
linking to PostgreSQL via C/C++ etc?

Sincerely,

Joshua Drake

jini us wrote:

It is a shame that postgres is not available as an
embedded server unlike mysql database server which
comes in the form of a dll.

However with mysql licence I would have to pay $10,000
if I wish to include it in mysql as an embedded server
in my app.

mysql database server is also a TCP/IP socket server
whether embedded or otherwise.

--- "Joshua D. Drake" <[e-mail]> wrote: >
jini us wrote:

Hi,

I am starting a new project where I intend to use
embedded database server in my win32 application.
I intend to use VC++ microsoft studio 6.0 as my
development environment.

The postgres.org website seems to be catering for
people with all sorts of requirements and

platforms.

1. Where can I find the binary distribution so that

I

can use postgres server as an embedded database.
I assume it is a .dll

No... PostgreSQL is a database server, thus you
connect to it via TCP/IP
or domain sockets (preferrably TCP/IP).

Also an emulation layer such as Cygwin will be
required to use PostgreSQL
on Windows.

2. Also I would like to have the documentation

which

shows how to start & stop the server

programmatically

and execute sql, to create a database, use select
insert , update etc.

www.postgresql.org click on docs.

3. Is it correct that I do not have to pay any user
licences.
Postgres is free not only for development but also

I

can include it in my software package.

Yes that is correct.

Thanks.

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S/ODBC and S/JDBC
Postgresql support, programming shared hosting and
dedicated hosting.
[phone] - [e-mail] -
http://www.commandprompt.com
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[Christopher Browne]

In the last exciting episode, ji******@yahoo.co.uk (jini us) wrote:

It is a shame that postgres is not available as an embedded server
unlike mysql database server which comes in the form of a dll.
When the postmaster runs as a separate process, this has three major
merits:

1. It takes advantage of the fact that modern operating systems are
quite GOOD at spawning multiple processes. VMS and MVS are
historically _atrociously_ slow at this, but on Windows NT, the
cost of spawning one process can't be _too_ dramatic.

2. It improves reliability since processes using data can't
accidentally corrupt the database process(es).

3. As soon as there is more than one process using data, there is
a savings in memory consumption since the overhead of
establishing dynamic parts of database context only need be paid
once.

That you regard it as a vital "doctrine" that it should be preferable
to embed databases using DLLs does not establish either that:

a) The doctrine is actually valid, or

b) The architecture of PostgreSQL is likely to be changed to conform
to that doctrine.

You might instead investigate the notion of running PostgreSQL as a
separate process, and see if you can find a way to use it, despite the
apparent misfit of expectations. If you fight with PostgreSQL, things
will doubtless go badly. If you try to find a way of cooperating with
its architecture, you might find some pleasant surprises...
However with mysql licence I would have to pay $10,000 if I wish to
include it in mysql as an embedded server in my app.

Wow, that is rather expensive. I thought MySQL was supposed to be
"free software," what with being licensed under the GPL and all...
--
wm(X,Y):-write(X),write('@'),write(Y). wm('cbbrowne','cbbrowne.com').
http://www3.sympatico.ca/cbbrowne/postgresql.html
"I'm sorry, the teleportation booth you have reached is not in service
at this time. Please hand-reassemble your molecules or call an
operator to help you...."

[Stephen]

PostgreSQL is not intended to be embedded into other programs. You might
want to try SQLite, it's a free embeddable SQL engine:

http://go.jitbot.com/sqlite

regards
"jini us" <ji******@yahoo.co.uk> wrote in message
news:20************************@web86110.mail.ukl. yahoo.com...

Hi,

I am starting a new project where I intend to use
embedded database server in my win32 application.
I intend to use VC++ microsoft studio 6.0 as my
development environment.

The postgres.org website seems to be catering for
people with all sorts of requirements and platforms.

1. Where can I find the binary distribution so that I
can use postgres server as an embedded database.
I assume it is a .dll

2. Also I would like to have the documentation which
shows how to start & stop the server programmatically
and execute sql, to create a database, use select
insert , update etc.

3. Is it correct that I do not have to pay any user
licences.
Postgres is free not only for development but also I
can include it in my software package.

Thanks.


__________________________________________________ ______________________
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[scott.marlowe]

On Thu, 13 Nov 2003, jini us wrote:

Hi,

I am starting a new project where I intend to use
embedded database server in my win32 application.
I intend to use VC++ microsoft studio 6.0 as my
development environment.

The postgres.org website seems to be catering for
people with all sorts of requirements and platforms.

1. Where can I find the binary distribution so that I
can use postgres server as an embedded database.
I assume it is a .dll
If you truly want to embed a database in your program, you probably don't
want postgresql, as it is massive overkill for an embedded database.

Look at SQLite: http://www.sqlite.org/
3. Is it correct that I do not have to pay any user
licences.
Postgres is free not only for development but also I
can include it in my software package.

Correct, postgresql is free as in speech, and free as in beer, and free as
in "the village bicycle".
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[jini us]

if libpq.dll contains the server and I can call the functions
to start and stop programmatically.
Then I could use Postgres as an embedded database sever in my application.
That way I include libpq.dll in my software package for deployment
with installshield.

So when the user starts my application I would start the database server, then stop it programmatically when the user stops using the application.
I would obviously need some functionality so that I can programmatically
configure which disk I would use to create the database.

I am hoping to be able to create the database on a virtual drive / network drive programmatically from my application.
That is to say when you are running windows your local disk drives are usually C: or D:
However you may also have virtual network drives mapped like X: Y: Z:.
These drives are obviously connected physically on another machine
but you are acessing it via the network card/cable etc.


"Joshua D. Drake" <[e-mail]> wrote:
Hello,

Are you sure you are not thinking of just the libpq.dll? That would allow
linking to PostgreSQL via C/C++ etc?

Sincerely,

Joshua Drake

jini us wrote:

It is a shame that postgres is not available as an
embedded server unlike mysql database server which
comes in the form of a dll.

However with mysql licence I would have to pay $10,000
if I wish to include it in mysql as an embedded server
in my app.

mysql database server is also a TCP/IP socket server
whether embedded or otherwise.

--- "Joshua D. Drake" wrote: >
jini us wrote:

Hi,

I am starting a new project where I intend to use
embedded database server in my win32 application.
I intend to use VC++ microsoft studio 6.0 as my
development environment.

The postgres.org website seems to be catering for
people with all sorts of requirements and

platforms.

1. Where can I find the binary distribution so that

I

can use postgres server as an embedded database.
I assume it is a .dll

No... PostgreSQL is a database server, thus you
connect to it via TCP/IP
or domain sockets (preferrably TCP/IP).

Also an emulation layer such as Cygwin will be
required to use PostgreSQL
on Windows.

2. Also I would like to have the documentation

which

shows how to start & stop the server

programmatically

and execute sql, to create a database, use select
insert , update etc.

www.postgresql.org click on docs.

3. Is it correct that I do not have to pay any user
licences.
Postgres is free not only for development but also

I

can include it in my software package.

Yes that is correct.

Thanks.

________________________________________________ ________________________

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Messenger http://mail.messenger.yahoo.co.uk

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S/ODBC and S/JDBC
Postgresql support, programming shared hosting and
dedicated hosting.
[phone] - [e-mail] -
http://www.commandprompt.com
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Postgresql support, programming shared hosting and dedicated hosting.
[phone] - [e-mail] - http://www.commandprompt.com
Editor-N-Chief - PostgreSQl.Org - http://www.postgresql.org

---------------------------------
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[scott.marlowe]

On Thu, 13 Nov 2003, jini us wrote:

if libpq.dll contains the server and I can call the functions
to start and stop programmatically.
Then I could use Postgres as an embedded database sever in my application.
That way I include libpq.dll in my software package for deployment
with installshield.

So when the user starts my application I would start the database server, then stop it programmatically when the user stops using the application.
I would obviously need some functionality so that I can programmatically
configure which disk I would use to create the database.

I am hoping to be able to create the database on a virtual drive / network drive programmatically from my application.
That is to say when you are running windows your local disk drives are usually C: or D:
However you may also have virtual network drives mapped like X: Y: Z:.
These drives are obviously connected physically on another machine
but you are acessing it via the network card/cable etc.

No, the libpq.dll is just the connection library. You need to have an
actual database up and running to connect to to use it.

How much memory do you have? Are you on nvram, which has limited write
lifetime? Postgresql loves to write to the storage medium, and will
likely wear out a memory stick before too long. How much transaction
capability etc. do you need in an embedded app? Postgresql is so heavily
optimized for transactions and parallel access safeness that you'll be
paying a huge performance and memory usage penalty.

Using Postgresql as an "embedded" database is stuffing a rather large load
into a rather small sack usually.
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[Christopher Browne]

ji******@yahoo.co.uk (jini us) writes:

So when the user starts my application I would start the database
server, then stop it programmatically when the user stops using the
application. I would obviously need*some functionality so that I can programmatically
configure which disk I would use to create the database.*
It is not necessary for PostgreSQL to be a "DLL" in order to all of do
these things.

Your application can configure where the database server is supposed
to find its data, and spawn the database server.

This came up a while back on the GnuCash discussion list, and I
described how you'd start up a 'pseudo-embedded' instance of
PostgreSQL:

<http://www.gnucash.org/pipermail/gnucash-devel/2003-June/009418.html>

Code to initialize and start up the database:
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
mkdir("~/GnuCash/DB");
system("initdb -d ~/GnuCash/DB");
[dribble a few changes into ~/GnuCash/DB/{pg_hba|postgres}.conf,
notably turning on TCP/IP, picking a port #, probably not too
much else...]
system("pg_ctl -D ~/GnuCash/DB start");
-----------------------------------------------------------------------

Code to stop it upon exiting the application:
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
system("pg_ctl -D ~/GnuCash/DB stop");
-----------------------------------------------------------------------

I daresay I was a just little bit dogmatic about it, and the approach
was not accepted particularly graciously...

<http://www.gnucash.org/pipermail/gnucash-devel/2003-June/009449.html>

-------------------------------------------------------------------
Derek Atkins wrote: Christopher Browne <gnucash at cbbrowne.com> writes:

It seems no more reasonable to expect that casual home users have to:

- Run mke2fs, or whatever else is involved in setting up filesystems;
- Run whatever frightening incantations are involved in getting X
working.
If this is how you feel then you are grossly over-estimating the
competence and skillset of the average user. Most users grab the
Red Hat install media and click "go". They have no clue what mke2fs
is. They have no clue how to set up X.

It nonetheless happens, does it not? They _do_ have to cope with it,
in some manner, because X and ext2 don't get there by magic.

Reciting some mantra of "embedded database, embedded database" will
also not lead to the system being simpler just because it gets
repeated enough times.

.... much elided ...

But none of that changes the vital points, that
- The "embedded" process belongs to the user;
- So do the files;
- It does NOT forcibly require a sysadmin's attentions.
-------------------------------------------------------------------
I am hoping to be able to create the database on*a virtual drive /
network drive programmatically from my application.

So long as you can run the program:

pg_ctl -D X:\WHEREVER_THE_DATA_IS start

there oughtn't be a problem with doing this.

It is a little bit disappointing that people _haven't_ documented the
use of this sort of approach to have PostgreSQL be 'quasi-embedded' in
such a manner that the database instance is not made manifestly
visible.
--
"aa454","@","freenet.carleton.ca"
http://cbbrowne.com/info/rdbms.html
Why are there flotation devices under plane seats instead of
parachutes?

[jini us]

Anybody knows of a c++ IDE, similar to Microsoft
studio but free.
Also good C++ site where I can pick up free
components.

Thanks.

--- "scott.marlowe" <sc***********@ihs.com> wrote: >
On Thu, 13 Nov 2003, jini us wrote:

if libpq.dll contains the server and I can call

the functions

to start and stop programmatically.
Then I could use Postgres as an embedded database

sever in my application.

That way I include libpq.dll in my software

package for deployment

with installshield.

So when the user starts my application I would

start the database server, then stop it
programmatically when the user stops using the
application.

I would obviously need some functionality so that

I can programmatically

configure which disk I would use to create the

database.

I am hoping to be able to create the database on a

virtual drive / network drive programmatically from
my application.

That is to say when you are running windows your

local disk drives are usually C: or D:

However you may also have virtual network drives

mapped like X: Y: Z:.

These drives are obviously connected physically on

another machine

but you are acessing it via the network card/cable

etc.

No, the libpq.dll is just the connection library.
You need to have an
actual database up and running to connect to to use
it.

How much memory do you have? Are you on nvram,
which has limited write
lifetime? Postgresql loves to write to the storage
medium, and will
likely wear out a memory stick before too long. How
much transaction
capability etc. do you need in an embedded app?
Postgresql is so heavily
optimized for transactions and parallel access
safeness that you'll be
paying a huge performance and memory usage penalty.

Using Postgresql as an "embedded" database is
stuffing a rather large load
into a rather small sack usually.

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[Mike Mascari]

jini us wrote:

Anybody knows of a c++ IDE, similar to Microsoft
studio but free.
Also good C++ site where I can pick up free
components.

I've never used it but if download statistics is correlated in any way
to quality Dev-C++ is one of the top downloads on sourceforge:

http://sourceforge.net/projects/dev-cpp/

Mike Mascari
ma*****@mascari.com

---------------------------(end of broadcast)---------------------------
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[jini us]

I have just downloaded that one.
It doesn't any features for designing GUI forms.
It is just a project manager.
--- Mike Mascari <ma*****@mascari.com> wrote: > jini
us wrote:

Anybody knows of a c++ IDE, similar to Microsoft
studio but free.
Also good C++ site where I can pick up free
components.

I've never used it but if download statistics is
correlated in any way
to quality Dev-C++ is one of the top downloads on
sourceforge:

http://sourceforge.net/projects/dev-cpp/

Mike Mascari
ma*****@mascari.com

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[BARTKO, Zoltan]

Have you ever tried KDevelop (www.kdevelop.org)? it is part of KDE
(www.kde.org), the newest version is going to be realesed very soon, but KDE
3.2 beta 1 was released already, get the tarballs from the above mentionned
address. I like it a lot, but you should check it out, if it suits your
needs.

Cheers,

Zoltan

----- Original Message -----
From: "jini us" <ji******@yahoo.co.uk>
To: "Mike Mascari" <ma*****@mascari.com>
Cc: <pg***********@postgresql.org>
Sent: Friday, November 14, 2003 4:28 AM
Subject: Re: [GENERAL] embedded postgresql + C++ IDE

I have just downloaded that one.
It doesn't any features for designing GUI forms.
It is just a project manager.
--- Mike Mascari <ma*****@mascari.com> wrote: > jini
us wrote:

Anybody knows of a c++ IDE, similar to Microsoft
studio but free.
Also good C++ site where I can pick up free
components.

I've never used it but if download statistics is
correlated in any way
to quality Dev-C++ is one of the top downloads on
sourceforge:

http://sourceforge.net/projects/dev-cpp/

Mike Mascari
ma*****@mascari.com

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[jini us]

I was looking at the screen shots and the screen shots
do not show any features for GUI drag + drop
development.

Does it have a GUI drag + drop for drawing windows
components ?
--- "BARTKO, Zoltan" <ba***********@pobox.sk> wrote:

Have you ever tried KDevelop (www.kdevelop.org)? it
is part of KDE
(www.kde.org), the newest version is going to be
realesed very soon, but KDE
3.2 beta 1 was released already, get the tarballs
from the above mentionned
address. I like it a lot, but you should check it
out, if it suits your
needs.

Cheers,

Zoltan

----- Original Message -----
From: "jini us" <ji******@yahoo.co.uk>
To: "Mike Mascari" <ma*****@mascari.com>
Cc: <pg***********@postgresql.org>
Sent: Friday, November 14, 2003 4:28 AM
Subject: Re: [GENERAL] embedded postgresql + C++ IDE

I have just downloaded that one.
It doesn't any features for designing GUI forms.
It is just a project manager.
--- Mike Mascari <ma*****@mascari.com> wrote: >

jini

us wrote:

> Anybody knows of a c++ IDE, similar to Microsoft > studio but free.
> Also good C++ site where I can pick up free
> components.

I've never used it but if download statistics is
correlated in any way
to quality Dev-C++ is one of the top downloads on sourceforge:

http://sourceforge.net/projects/dev-cpp/

Mike Mascari
ma*****@mascari.com

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[Shridhar Daithankar]

On Friday 14 November 2003 18:47, jini us wrote:

I was looking at the screen shots and the screen shots
do not show any features for GUI drag + drop
development.

Does it have a GUI drag + drop for drawing windows
components ?

Yes. It has Qt designer which supports custom KDE widgets but two things.

1. This discussion is offtopic on this list.
2. I don't know how many people use DnD to design GUIs. Qt offers so much
control that it is rather tempting to do GUI in text editor.

Shridhar
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[Joshua D. Drake]

If you are using Linux for development, you can use QTDesigner or any
number of GTK based tools.

jini us wrote:

I was looking at the screen shots and the screen shots
do not show any features for GUI drag + drop
development.

Does it have a GUI drag + drop for drawing windows
components ?
--- "BARTKO, Zoltan" <ba***********@pobox.sk> wrote:

Have you ever tried KDevelop (www.kdevelop.org)? it
is part of KDE
(www.kde.org), the newest version is going to be
realesed very soon, but KDE
3.2 beta 1 was released already, get the tarballs
from the above mentionned
address. I like it a lot, but you should check it
out, if it suits your
needs.

Cheers,

Zoltan

----- Original Message -----
From: "jini us" <ji******@yahoo.co.uk>
To: "Mike Mascari" <ma*****@mascari.com>
Cc: <pg***********@postgresql.org>
Sent: Friday, November 14, 2003 4:28 AM
Subject: Re: [GENERAL] embedded postgresql + C++ IDE

I have just downloaded that one.
It doesn't any features for designing GUI forms.
It is just a project manager.
--- Mike Mascari <ma*****@mascari.com> wrote: >

jini

us wrote:
>Anybody knows of a c++ IDE, similar to
>
>

Microsoft

>studio but free.
>Also good C++ site where I can pick up free
>components.
>
>
I've never used it but if download statistics is
correlated in any way
to quality Dev-C++ is one of the top downloads

on

sourceforge:

http://sourceforge.net/projects/dev-cpp/

Mike Mascari
ma*****@mascari.com



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[jini us]

I am using MS windows so ideally I would like
to get hold of a binary for MS windows

--- "Joshua D. Drake" <[e-mail]> wrote: >
If you are using Linux for development, you can use

QTDesigner or any
number of GTK based tools.

jini us wrote:

I was looking at the screen shots and the screen

shots

do not show any features for GUI drag + drop
development.

Does it have a GUI drag + drop for drawing windows
components ?
--- "BARTKO, Zoltan" <ba***********@pobox.sk>

wrote:

Have you ever tried KDevelop (www.kdevelop.org)? itis part of KDE
(www.kde.org), the newest version is going to be
realesed very soon, but KDE
3.2 beta 1 was released already, get the tarballs
from the above mentionned
address. I like it a lot, but you should check it
out, if it suits your
needs.

Cheers,

Zoltan

----- Original Message -----
From: "jini us" <ji******@yahoo.co.uk>
To: "Mike Mascari" <ma*****@mascari.com>
Cc: <pg***********@postgresql.org>
Sent: Friday, November 14, 2003 4:28 AM
Subject: Re: [GENERAL] embedded postgresql + C++ IDE

I have just downloaded that one.
It doesn't any features for designing GUI forms.
It is just a project manager.
--- Mike Mascari <ma*****@mascari.com> wrote: >
jini
us wrote:
>>Anybody knows of a c++ IDE, similar to
>>
>>
Microsoft
>>studio but free.
>>Also good C++ site where I can pick up free
>>components.
>>
>>
>I've never used it but if download statistics is
>correlated in any way
>to quality Dev-C++ is one of the top downloads
>
>
on
>sourceforge:
>
>http://sourceforge.net/projects/dev-cpp/
>
>Mike Mascari
>ma*****@mascari.com
>
>
>
>
>
>

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[jini us]

I would class your solution as a work around
rather than a "natural solution".

Anyway I am using MS windows and to implement
postgres as embedded, using your approach, would
probably become complicated.
..It would probably introduce unwanted bugs in my
software.
--- Christopher Browne <cb******@acm.org> wrote: >
ji******@yahoo.co.uk (jini us) writes:

So when the user starts my application I would start the database

server, then stop it programmatically when the

user stops using the

application.

I would obviously need some functionality so that

I can programmatically

configure which disk I would use to create the

database.

It is not necessary for PostgreSQL to be a "DLL" in
order to all of do
these things.

Your application can configure where the database
server is supposed
to find its data, and spawn the database server.

This came up a while back on the GnuCash discussion
list, and I
described how you'd start up a 'pseudo-embedded'
instance of
PostgreSQL:

<http://www.gnucash.org/pipermail/gnucash-devel/2003-June/009418.html>
Code to initialize and start up the database:
----------------------------------------------------------------------- mkdir("~/GnuCash/DB");
system("initdb -d ~/GnuCash/DB");
[dribble a few changes into
~/GnuCash/DB/{pg_hba|postgres}.conf,
notably turning on TCP/IP, picking a port #,
probably not too
much else...]
system("pg_ctl -D ~/GnuCash/DB start");
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Code to stop it upon exiting the application:
----------------------------------------------------------------------- system("pg_ctl -D ~/GnuCash/DB stop");
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
I daresay I was a just little bit dogmatic about it,
and the approach
was not accepted particularly graciously...

<http://www.gnucash.org/pipermail/gnucash-devel/2003-June/009449.html>
------------------------------------------------------------------- Derek Atkins wrote:

Christopher Browne <gnucash at cbbrowne.com> writes:

It seems no more reasonable to expect that casual home users have to:
- Run mke2fs, or whatever else is involved in setting up filesystems; - Run whatever frightening incantations are involved in getting X working.

If this is how you feel then you are grossly

over-estimating the

competence and skillset of the average user. Most

users grab the

Red Hat install media and click "go". They have

no clue what mke2fs

is. They have no clue how to set up X.

It nonetheless happens, does it not? They _do_ have
to cope with it,
in some manner, because X and ext2 don't get there
by magic.

Reciting some mantra of "embedded database, embedded
database" will
also not lead to the system being simpler just
because it gets
repeated enough times.

... much elided ...

But none of that changes the vital points, that
- The "embedded" process belongs to the user;
- So do the files;
- It does NOT forcibly require a sysadmin's
attentions.

-------------------------------------------------------------------

I am hoping to be able to create the database on a

virtual drive /

network drive programmatically from my

application.

So long as you can run the program:

pg_ctl -D X:\WHEREVER_THE_DATA_IS start

there oughtn't be a problem with doing this.

It is a little bit disappointing that people
_haven't_ documented the
use of this sort of approach to have PostgreSQL be
'quasi-embedded' in
such a manner that the database instance is not made
manifestly
visible.
--
"aa454","@","freenet.carleton.ca"
http://cbbrowne.com/info/rdbms.html
Why are there flotation devices under plane
seats instead of
parachutes?

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[Dustin Sallings]

On Nov 14, 2003, at 14:13, jini us wrote:

I would class your solution as a work around
rather than a "natural solution".
It really seemed like the obvious way to do it (I'm sure I'm not the
only person who thought of that, but didn't post it).
Anyway I am using MS windows and to implement
postgres as embedded, using your approach, would
probably become complicated.
.It would probably introduce unwanted bugs in my
software.

I believe it would be you introducing those bugs if you do not
initialize the DB correctly, regardless of the mechanism.

Now, how many bugs do you think it would create in postgres if the
entire interface model were changed from postmaster/postgres processes
to having multiple threads in a single application trying to issue
queries in the in-process DB. What happens to the DB when your app
segfaults? Are there any signal handlers postgres uses that you would
want to use in your app? Do you really need to redesign the way
postgres works just because you don't want to manage the resource as a
process rather than a different type of API?

--
Dustin Sallings
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[Nigel J. Andrews]

On Fri, 14 Nov 2003, Dustin Sallings wrote:

On Nov 14, 2003, at 14:13, jini us wrote:

I would class your solution as a work around
rather than a "natural solution".
It really seemed like the obvious way to do it (I'm sure I'm not the
only person who thought of that, but didn't post it).

LOL, I was just composing and then aborted an answer mentioning mindsets and it
being natural to me.

Anyway I am using MS windows and to implement
postgres as embedded, using your approach, would
probably become complicated.
.It would probably introduce unwanted bugs in my
software.
I believe it would be you introducing those bugs if you do not
initialize the DB correctly, regardless of the mechanism.

An objection made, if I read the edited out sections correctly, that a user
shouldn't have to worry about formating the chosen disk etc, it should just
happen. Well there's nothing in this solution that prevents that from
happening. Indeed, if there's no user involvement in configuring a linked in
embedded solution then there's no user involvement required in the
configuration. How does "no user involvement required" morph into "user must do
stuff"?

Now, how many bugs do you think it would create in postgres if the
entire interface model were changed from postmaster/postgres processes
to having multiple threads in a single application trying to issue
queries in the in-process DB. What happens to the DB when your app
segfaults? Are there any signal handlers postgres uses that you would
want to use in your app? Do you really need to redesign the way
postgres works just because you don't want to manage the resource as a
process rather than a different type of API?

Write a library that provides the API required to which the app. can be linked
but which chats/controls the server.

If I want to find files in one directory (or folder :) that exist in another I
don't ask that bash, korn shell etc. be linked with a new library for the
job. No, I use the existing components in a combination that does the job.
--
Nigel J. Andrews

( ( cd onedirectory; ls ); ( cd otherdirectory; ls ) ) | sort | uniq -d
if you really want to know.

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[Dustin Sallings]

On Nov 14, 2003, at 15:43, Nigel J. Andrews wrote:

LOL, I was just composing and then aborted an answer mentioning
mindsets and it
being natural to me.
[...]
Write a library that provides the API required to which the app. can
be linked
but which chats/controls the server.

Haha. I was just having this conversation with a co-worker. I was
suggesting writing a -lpqembed and giving it out as the ``embedded
solution.''

Because really, who would care about the difference?

Now, if only I had a use for such a thing...

--
Dustin Sallings
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[Christopher Browne]

After a long battle with technology, ji******@yahoo.co.uk (jini us),
an earthling, wrote:

I would class your solution as a work around rather than a "natural
solution".
It may not be the approach you _expected_.
Anyway I am using MS windows and to implement postgres as embedded,
using your approach, would probably become complicated.
Sure, you'll have to decide where to put the directory. That could
get quite hideous...
It would probably introduce unwanted bugs in my software.

But THAT seems very odd. Can you be more specific about the sorts of
bugs that would be expected to appear by virtue of _not_ including the
"postmaster" inside your application?

I would think the opposite would be true; that this would _diminish_
the likelihood of bugs, since it would outright eliminate the
possibility of your own code accidentally trampling on database
memory, which is a BIG risk that would be introduced by embedding the
database in your application.
--
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http://www3.sympatico.ca/cbbrowne/linuxxian.html
Who needs fault-tolerant computers when there's obviously an ample
market of fault-tolerant users?

[jini us]

I have come to the conclusion that for my purpose
I would be better off using sqlite from www.sqlite.org
or firebird from www.phoenix.com.

Although mysql provides client APIs & server APIs
and is stable.
But there seems to be doubt whether mysql is actually
free if I wish to use it as an embedded database.

It has been suggested that I would have to pay
$10,000 one off licence fee if I include mysql in my
app.
Another person suggested that mysql is free to include
in my app, so I am simply not sure over the licence
costs of mysql.

--- Dustin Sallings <du****@spy.net> wrote: >

On Nov 14, 2003, at 14:13, jini us wrote:

I would class your solution as a work around
rather than a "natural solution".

It really seemed like the obvious way to do it (I'm
sure I'm not the
only person who thought of that, but didn't post
it).

Anyway I am using MS windows and to implement
postgres as embedded, using your approach, would
probably become complicated.
.It would probably introduce unwanted bugs in my
software.

I believe it would be you introducing those bugs if
you do not
initialize the DB correctly, regardless of the
mechanism.

Now, how many bugs do you think it would create in
postgres if the
entire interface model were changed from
postmaster/postgres processes
to having multiple threads in a single application
trying to issue
queries in the in-process DB. What happens to the
DB when your app
segfaults? Are there any signal handlers postgres
uses that you would
want to use in your app? Do you really need to
redesign the way
postgres works just because you don't want to manage
the resource as a
process rather than a different type of API?

--
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[Christopher Browne]

After a long battle with technology, ji******@yahoo.co.uk (jini us), an earthling, wrote:

It has been suggested that I would have to pay
$10,000 one off licence fee if I include mysql in my
app.
Another person suggested that mysql is free to include
in my app, so I am simply not sure over the licence
costs of mysql.

There is a ready way of disambiguating _that_ part; were you planning
to license your application under the terms of the GPL? If so, then
there is license compatibility, and you oughtn't need to pay anything.

If you were NOT planning to use the GPL, then you'll need to for
license fees of on the order of $500 per "server," where presumably
each deployment of your application attracts a license charge.

A $10K arrangement sounds like a minimum charge where you might be
buying 30 or so licenses up front, and would get a pretty steep
discount on the basis of prepaying for licenses. (SolidTech went to a
model similar to that; they used to sell licenses for about
$150/server, and some users were quite chagrined when they discovered
they couldn't get small numbers of licenses anymore...) But that's
only a wild guess; the company doesn't publish that information
publicly on their pricing web page.

In any case, it is really not a matter that would be properly
addressed here; you really should contact their sales department to
get authoritative details.
--
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[Paul Ganainm]

cb******@acm.org says...

However with mysql licence I would have to pay $10,000 if I wish to
include it in mysql as an embedded server in my app.

Wow, that is rather expensive. I thought MySQL was supposed to be
"free software," what with being licensed under the GPL and all...

Only if your app is GPL'd also - if you want to charge money for it and
make it closed source, then you pay - I did think that 10.000 was a bit
on the steep side.
Paul...
--

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C++ Builder 5 SP1, Interbase 6.0.1.6 IBX 5.04 W2K Pro

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[Paul Ganainm]

ji******@yahoo.co.uk says...

It has been suggested that I would have to pay
$10,000 one off licence fee if I include mysql in my
app.

https://order.mysql.com/
Seems to be 500 dollars to me.
Paul...
--

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C++ Builder 5 SP1, Interbase 6.0.1.6 IBX 5.04 W2K Pro

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