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Tom Lane heads up

Just dropping a quick not for Tom Lane. I sent a personal message
today, but I wasn't sure if you'd get it after I remembered all of the
spam filters you've got set up.

Sorry for the off topic post.

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Nov 23 '05
69 6432
Bruce Momjian wrote:
Joe Conway wrote:
The one thing I had *not* been doing, but started to do as of last
night, is to use the false-negatives to explicitly train the Bayesian
filter. It was easy enough to set up. I created an hourly cron job as
follows:

/usr/bin/sa-learn --mbox --spam /path/to/false-neg.mbox

Now I just drop all false negatives into that mailbox, and clean them
out periodically. Hopefully that will make a significant improvement.


I can tell you it certainly will.


Doesn't sa-learn also require you to teach it Ham as well? My
problem has been that sa-learn appears to ignore white-listed emails
and therefore can't learn from 90% of my Ham. Meanwhile, I get spam
that slips through SA that my Mozilla client *correctly* identifies
as Junk. Once a week, I take that Junk email, along with all Ham and
run sa-learn with the appropriate --spam/--ham switch. But it
doesn't seem to be improving. I still get spam which SA fails to
identify but which, 95% of the time, Mozilla correctly identifies.

Mike Mascari

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Nov 23 '05 #51
On Wed, 21 Apr 2004, Joe Conway wrote:
The one thing I had *not* been doing, but started to do as of last
night, is to use the false-negatives to explicitly train the Bayesian
filter. It was easy enough to set up. I created an hourly cron job as
follows:

/usr/bin/sa-learn --mbox --spam /path/to/false-neg.mbox

Now I just drop all false negatives into that mailbox, and clean them
out periodically. Hopefully that will make a significant improvement.


This, for me, has made the big difference, since the false-negatives don't
get autolearned :(

----
Marc G. Fournier Hub.Org Networking Services (http://www.hub.org)
Email: sc*****@hub.org Yahoo!: yscrappy ICQ: 7615664

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Nov 23 '05 #52
On Wed, 21 Apr 2004, Joe Conway wrote:
The one thing I had *not* been doing, but started to do as of last
night, is to use the false-negatives to explicitly train the Bayesian
filter. It was easy enough to set up. I created an hourly cron job as
follows:

/usr/bin/sa-learn --mbox --spam /path/to/false-neg.mbox

Now I just drop all false negatives into that mailbox, and clean them
out periodically. Hopefully that will make a significant improvement.


This, for me, has made the big difference, since the false-negatives don't
get autolearned :(

----
Marc G. Fournier Hub.Org Networking Services (http://www.hub.org)
Email: sc*****@hub.org Yahoo!: yscrappy ICQ: 7615664

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Nov 23 '05 #53
Marc G. Fournier wrote:
On Wed, 21 Apr 2004, Joe Conway wrote:
/usr/bin/sa-learn --mbox --spam /path/to/false-neg.mbox

Now I just drop all false negatives into that mailbox, and clean them
out periodically. Hopefully that will make a significant improvement.


This, for me, has made the big difference, since the false-negatives don't
get autolearned :(


Actually, even much of what does (correctly) get marked as spam, ends up
with autolearn=no, because it seems SpamAssassin is somewhat
conservative with autolearning. I just sent this off list to Michael Chaney:
---------------------------------------------------------------------

I've noticed that the threshold for autolearn seems too high, i.e. a
high proportion of email correctly marked as spam, has autolearn=no.
Here's an example:

X-Spam-Status: Yes, hits=3.7 required=2.5
tests=BAYES_44, HTML_FONT_INVIS IBLE, HTML_IMAGE_ONLY _04,
HTML_MESSAGE,MI ME_HTML_NO_CHAR SET,MIME_HTML_O NLY,
MIME_HTML_ONLY_ MULTI autolearn=no version=2.63

Now in /etc/mail/spamassassin/local.cf I have this setting:

# Enable Bayes auto-learning
auto_learn 1
bayes_auto_lear n_threshold_spa m 6

From the SA docs, I get the impression that autolearn cannot be made
more aggressive.

So in order to counteract that, I just made an additional change -- I
put in a mail filter rule that automatically forwards any mail marked as
spam, but with autolearn=no, to false-neg.mbox. This should help too, I
think.

Joe
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Nov 23 '05 #54
Marc G. Fournier wrote:
On Wed, 21 Apr 2004, Joe Conway wrote:
/usr/bin/sa-learn --mbox --spam /path/to/false-neg.mbox

Now I just drop all false negatives into that mailbox, and clean them
out periodically. Hopefully that will make a significant improvement.


This, for me, has made the big difference, since the false-negatives don't
get autolearned :(


Actually, even much of what does (correctly) get marked as spam, ends up
with autolearn=no, because it seems SpamAssassin is somewhat
conservative with autolearning. I just sent this off list to Michael Chaney:
---------------------------------------------------------------------

I've noticed that the threshold for autolearn seems too high, i.e. a
high proportion of email correctly marked as spam, has autolearn=no.
Here's an example:

X-Spam-Status: Yes, hits=3.7 required=2.5
tests=BAYES_44, HTML_FONT_INVIS IBLE, HTML_IMAGE_ONLY _04,
HTML_MESSAGE,MI ME_HTML_NO_CHAR SET,MIME_HTML_O NLY,
MIME_HTML_ONLY_ MULTI autolearn=no version=2.63

Now in /etc/mail/spamassassin/local.cf I have this setting:

# Enable Bayes auto-learning
auto_learn 1
bayes_auto_lear n_threshold_spa m 6

From the SA docs, I get the impression that autolearn cannot be made
more aggressive.

So in order to counteract that, I just made an additional change -- I
put in a mail filter rule that automatically forwards any mail marked as
spam, but with autolearn=no, to false-neg.mbox. This should help too, I
think.

Joe
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Nov 23 '05 #55

Joe Conway <ma**@joeconway .com> wrote:
[snip]
The one thing I had *not* been doing, but started to do as of last
night, is to use the false-negatives to explicitly train the Bayesian
filter.

[snip]

As you've discovered, the hard way, one must constantly train Bayesian
filters. This means that every false positive has to be fed back
through it with whatever means your version uses to tell it "No, this
was *not* spam," and every false negative, the converse.

--
Jim Seymour | Spammers sue anti-spammers:
js******@LinxNe t.com | http://www.LinxNet.com/misc/spam/slapp.php
http://jimsun.LinxNet.com | Please donate to the SpamCon Legal Fund:
| http://www.spamcon.org/legalfund/

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Nov 23 '05 #56

Joe Conway <ma**@joeconway .com> wrote:
[snip]
The one thing I had *not* been doing, but started to do as of last
night, is to use the false-negatives to explicitly train the Bayesian
filter.

[snip]

As you've discovered, the hard way, one must constantly train Bayesian
filters. This means that every false positive has to be fed back
through it with whatever means your version uses to tell it "No, this
was *not* spam," and every false negative, the converse.

--
Jim Seymour | Spammers sue anti-spammers:
js******@LinxNe t.com | http://www.LinxNet.com/misc/spam/slapp.php
http://jimsun.LinxNet.com | Please donate to the SpamCon Legal Fund:
| http://www.spamcon.org/legalfund/

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Nov 23 '05 #57
On Wed, 21 Apr 2004, Mike Mascari wrote:
Doesn't sa-learn also require you to teach it Ham as well? My problem
has been that sa-learn appears to ignore white-listed emails and
therefore can't learn from 90% of my Ham. Meanwhile, I get spam that
slips through SA that my Mozilla client *correctly* identifies as Junk.
Once a week, I take that Junk email, along with all Ham and run sa-learn
with the appropriate --spam/--ham switch. But it doesn't seem to be
improving. I still get spam which SA fails to identify but which, 95% of
the time, Mozilla correctly identifies.


I'm finding it gets better over time ... a few always slip through the
crack, but not near as many today as yesterday ... as for Ham, I have a
mailbox that I save all my 'Answered Emails' to (from friends, lists, etc)
that I periodically run through as --ham

----
Marc G. Fournier Hub.Org Networking Services (http://www.hub.org)
Email: sc*****@hub.org Yahoo!: yscrappy ICQ: 7615664

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Nov 23 '05 #58
On Wed, 21 Apr 2004, Mike Mascari wrote:
Doesn't sa-learn also require you to teach it Ham as well? My problem
has been that sa-learn appears to ignore white-listed emails and
therefore can't learn from 90% of my Ham. Meanwhile, I get spam that
slips through SA that my Mozilla client *correctly* identifies as Junk.
Once a week, I take that Junk email, along with all Ham and run sa-learn
with the appropriate --spam/--ham switch. But it doesn't seem to be
improving. I still get spam which SA fails to identify but which, 95% of
the time, Mozilla correctly identifies.


I'm finding it gets better over time ... a few always slip through the
crack, but not near as many today as yesterday ... as for Ham, I have a
mailbox that I save all my 'Answered Emails' to (from friends, lists, etc)
that I periodically run through as --ham

----
Marc G. Fournier Hub.Org Networking Services (http://www.hub.org)
Email: sc*****@hub.org Yahoo!: yscrappy ICQ: 7615664

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Nov 23 '05 #59
At 10:08 AM 4/20/2004 +0200, Karel Zak wrote:

4. Very long list of procmail filters on header and body patterns.


It must be pretty difficult maintain these header and body patterns
and the others lists. I had same problem and I resolve if by
"spamassass in", it knows learn and it's more simple than procmailrc
coding. Now I have cca 5% of all spams in my INBOX.


My spam:ham ratio is about 98:2 (98% spam), excluding mailing lists.

So far its manageable though rather annoying - fortunately in my situation
I can regard as spam emails that are in html (or have HTML) and not in my
whitelist. That gets rid of about 50% of the spam, the other 40% or so get
filtered via another simple filter.

My situation=I don't really have to answer messages to my personal email
account from ignorant strangers that send me html email. Your situation may
be different.

So far I haven't seen any html emails that were really worth reading, even
the one or two from relatives (who I white-list to not be rude ;) ). I go
through that folder once in a while and it works for me - so far I don't
recall having HTML emails from strangers that weren't spam.

I've had plain text messages from silly strangers (and a silly colleague)
that used lots of !!!! and stupid subject lines - actual content barely
worth replying to. e.g. Help!!!!!

Situation is different at work. But company pays for antispam software.
Ironically while we sell Sophos Puremessage (which seems to be pretty
good), it's for larger companies/orgs than us (>1000 users). ;).

The backup MX thing is not very useful in most cases. Seems similar for DNS
- doesn't appear that useful to have your names resolvable while your site
is unreachable. OK the error messages may be slightly less embarassing?

Regards,
Link.

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Nov 23 '05 #60

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