473,839 Members | 1,464 Online
Bytes | Software Development & Data Engineering Community
+ Post

Home Posts Topics Members FAQ

Postgress and MYSQL

To whom it may concern:

I find the recent articles in various trade publications a little
disturbing due to the lack of PostgrSQL mention. I continue to see
articles about how IBM may be considering MYSQL for development an
open_source web database.

Why isn't PostgreSQL being considered or talked about by major industry
giants? As a DBA I know that Postgres is far superior to MYSQL but if
the industry directs it's energies towards open-source database this
coming year I think somehow PostgreSQL needs to be represented better.
Bob Powell
---------------------------(end of broadcast)---------------------------
TIP 3: if posting/reading through Usenet, please send an appropriate
subscribe-nomail command to ma*******@postg resql.org so that your
message can get through to the mailing list cleanly

Nov 22 '05
67 12564
From: "Jonathan Bartlett" <jo*****@eskimo .com>
We need a Postgres vs MySQL Mailing list :)


you are going to laugh but I don't think that this is such a bad idea,
provided that it is not limited to Postgres vs MySQL. Advocacy is good and
all, but they are more interested in promoting PostgreSQL than discussing
competitive issues. In fact, the general list seems to be dedicated to only
2 things:
support of all types and
PostgreSQL vs MySQL.

I would suggest that we consider forming a pgsql-competitive email list for
discussing PostgreSQL and how it compares with other database managers. We
could then send out documents, etc. to other lists (general, advocacy, etc.)
for more general consideration.

We could then look at comparisons regarding Oracle, MySQL, MS SQL, etc.
without cluttering this list or the Advocacy list with material that tends
to be... voluminous but disorganized.

The list could also serve as a place for consultants to go if they want
competitive information relating to other products.

Best Wishes,
Chris Travers
---------------------------(end of broadcast)---------------------------
TIP 7: don't forget to increase your free space map settings

Nov 22 '05 #51
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

On Wednesday 14 January 2004 10:18 pm, Chris Travers wrote:
From: "Keith C. Perry" <ne******@vcsn. com>
3) Not being able to "find" something in via search BEFORE even reading


the
documentation is somewhat backwards. You have to at least get a feel


for
the docs before even know what to look for. That is not to say that


the
search engine is not problematic but it is to say that I'm am more and


more
convinced that knowing how to search more important than what is being
searched for.


Well put, and I like the other posts about the usefullness of a really good
index. However, I think that there is an attitude that MySQL docs are
better for beginners because the search really takes the place of the
index. However, IMO, this masks a more subtle issue, see below.
4) As many people pointed out before, a product should not be technical
education it should product education. Some people take it as being


rude
we some on-list says use google or check <some other site>. Granted
being told "this is not hand holding" is definitely a slap in the face


its
been done to me and I'm sure there is a better way to put it but the
reality is that PG docs are very good. Get some paper and print
they out double-sided- they're an excellent reference. However, you


have to
understand the basics first and that simply does not belong on the PG
site (save a link to some community recommendations ).


I agree to a point, in that the PostgreSQL product documentation is product
education, not general database education. However, the "community
recommended links" approach has a number of difficiencies that I don't
think have been discussed much:

1: Community maintained lists of links seems the easy way to go until
those links become broken or change and need to be removed due to
inaccurate content. It may be easier over the long term to maintain our
own technical education database that we have control over.

2: You DO have a problem that PostgreSQL as a product assumes more general
knowledge than MySQL. The docs tend to assume you know stuff, and it would
be nice to have community maintained references on these general topics,
perhaps on techdocs, perhaps elsewhere.

3: MySQL is a database engine which seems to make sense UNTIL you are
technically educated. Competing with MySQL may mean being able to
articulate why ACID complience is important, for example. Or why the
database should abort the operation/transaction rather than truncate your
data in a NUMERIC column.

So what is the alternative? I am working on some documentation but my work
is slowed by my laptop being in the shop. Perhaps we could have a
technical education category in Techdocs?

Best Wishes,
Chris Travers


Basically it's a question of what product to compare postgresql with. If you
target the DB2 / Oracle / Sybase corner I don't think a lot of those admins
have a problem getting used to postgresql.
But looking around on the net and in paper publications makes it obvious that
postgresql is mostly compared to mysql - both being "open source" (well, to
some degree :-)) )
Coming from the classic DB systems around I found it much easier to use
postgresql than to use mysql - things like transactions always were a given
fact for me, so I was utterly surprised not being able to set an isolation
level in mysql.
Having the usual comparison in mind I agree with Chris that at least a link
collection to sources that educate the "average ms-access user" about basic
database concepts might prove very useful - even if people won't read it, but
at least it's much easier to point them to the right place instead of
repeating the same things over and over again.

My $0.01 <- only one cent here - need the other one for another email :-)
UC

- --
Open Source Solutions 4U, LLC 2570 Fleetwood Drive
Phone: +1 650 872 2425 San Bruno, CA 94066
Cell: +1 650 302 2405 United States
Fax: +1 650 872 2417
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: GnuPG v1.2.3 (GNU/Linux)

iD8DBQFABkmFjqG XBvRToM4RApSBAJ 9+fKmSg9y+9O3r9 4PzHv2kKP/hkwCgwplv
HRVWOPFHQ6WBqUH Ejq1CLlc=
=LVQX
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
---------------------------(end of broadcast)---------------------------
TIP 3: if posting/reading through Usenet, please send an appropriate
subscribe-nomail command to ma*******@postg resql.org so that your
message can get through to the mailing list cleanly

Nov 22 '05 #52
Quoting "Joshua D. Drake" <jd@commandprom pt.com>:
Look I love postgresql, but reality is reality. The database itself is
great, the documentation is pretty good, but a lot of the other things

about
postgresql (like the website) need a lot of work. Postgresql gives the
impression of being a second rate disorganized product if you were to just
go by the website alone.

Isn't that true of just about any OSS project? Heck, Linux doesn't even
have a website ;).
MySQL is not an OSS project, it is an OSS product with a commercial
company backing
it. There is a big difference.

Sincerely,

Joshua D. Drake


You're kidding me...

linux.org
linux.com (ewwww, way to cluttered these days)
linuxhq.org
linuxhq.com (looks like their undergoing a facelift)
I seem to remember someone saying that PG is supposed to be leaning towards
being more like a "kernel" so I would like one day the site might become
conceptually like linux.org in the sense that they point you toward the various
distributions of Linux.

Comments?

--
Keith C. Perry, MS E.E.
Director of Networks & Applications
VCSN, Inc.
http://vcsn.com

_______________ _______________ ______
This email account is being host by:
VCSN, Inc : http://vcsn.com

---------------------------(end of broadcast)---------------------------
TIP 9: the planner will ignore your desire to choose an index scan if your
joining column's datatypes do not match

Nov 22 '05 #53
On Wed, 14 Jan 2004, Rick Gigger wrote:
Does anyone have any experience with postgers full text search?
It works well but it is my understanding that our docs search doesn't
use PostgreSQL
and TSearch. It uses PostgreSQL monogo search or something like that.


That's good to hear. What is monogo and is it the problem here? Why don't
it use TSearch if it is better? Is it just a matter of someone taking the
time to set it up?


I don't understand also, why not use tsearch2 for searching postgresql
documentation. All docs contains about 10-20 K unique words !
Searching arhives is another story and we're working on it on www.pgsql.ru
btw, have you seen it ?

---------------------------(end of broadcast)---------------------------
TIP 7: don't forget to increase your free space map settings


Regards,
Oleg
_______________ _______________ _______________ _______________ _
Oleg Bartunov, sci.researcher, hostmaster of AstroNet,
Sternberg Astronomical Institute, Moscow University (Russia)
Internet: ol**@sai.msu.su, http://www.sai.msu.su/~megera/
phone: +007(095)939-16-83, +007(095)939-23-83

---------------------------(end of broadcast)---------------------------
TIP 4: Don't 'kill -9' the postmaster

Nov 22 '05 #54
On Wed, 14 Jan 2004, Joshua D. Drake wrote:
That's good to hear. What is monogo and is it the problem here? Why don't
it use TSearch if it is better? Is it just a matter of someone taking the
time to set it up?

It is a little more complicated than that. Monogo or whatever it is
called is more
like a web spider that uses postgresql. Thus we can search the entire
postgresql
website. Tsearch is more about text search within PostgreSQL so we would
have
to load the books etc... into the database. That is not as easy as it
sounds.


Then use OpenFTS if you prefer to store documents outside of database.
I don't see any problem to develop separate search on official postgres
documentations.

Also if you are looking for something very cool... check out www.pgsql.ru

Sincerely,

Joshua D. Drake


Regards,
Oleg
_______________ _______________ _______________ _______________ _
Oleg Bartunov, sci.researcher, hostmaster of AstroNet,
Sternberg Astronomical Institute, Moscow University (Russia)
Internet: ol**@sai.msu.su, http://www.sai.msu.su/~megera/
phone: +007(095)939-16-83, +007(095)939-23-83

---------------------------(end of broadcast)---------------------------
TIP 9: the planner will ignore your desire to choose an index scan if your
joining column's datatypes do not match

Nov 22 '05 #55

why not use pgsql-chat, which isn't being used at all right now ... ?

On Thu, 15 Jan 2004, Chris Travers wrote:
From: "Jonathan Bartlett" <jo*****@eskimo .com>
We need a Postgres vs MySQL Mailing list :)


you are going to laugh but I don't think that this is such a bad idea,
provided that it is not limited to Postgres vs MySQL. Advocacy is good and
all, but they are more interested in promoting PostgreSQL than discussing
competitive issues. In fact, the general list seems to be dedicated to only
2 things:
support of all types and
PostgreSQL vs MySQL.

I would suggest that we consider forming a pgsql-competitive email list for
discussing PostgreSQL and how it compares with other database managers. We
could then send out documents, etc. to other lists (general, advocacy, etc.)
for more general consideration.

We could then look at comparisons regarding Oracle, MySQL, MS SQL, etc.
without cluttering this list or the Advocacy list with material that tends
to be... voluminous but disorganized.

The list could also serve as a place for consultants to go if they want
competitive information relating to other products.

Best Wishes,
Chris Travers
---------------------------(end of broadcast)---------------------------
TIP 7: don't forget to increase your free space map settings


----
Marc G. Fournier Hub.Org Networking Services (http://www.hub.org)
Email: sc*****@hub.org Yahoo!: yscrappy ICQ: 7615664

---------------------------(end of broadcast)---------------------------
TIP 4: Don't 'kill -9' the postmaster

Nov 22 '05 #56
You're kidding me...
No I am not... You missed the point, there is no official Linux website.
Linux.org is ran by one guy,
linux.com is run by VA (I actually used to have po**@linux.com), I own
Linuxdoc.org and Linuxdoc.com...
The closest you get to a "linux" website is kernel.org.
Sincerely,

Joshua D. Drake
linux.org
linux.com (ewwww, way to cluttered these days)
linuxhq.org
linuxhq.com (looks like their undergoing a facelift)
I seem to remember someone saying that PG is supposed to be leaning towards
being more like a "kernel" so I would like one day the site might become
conceptually like linux.org in the sense that they point you toward the various
distribution s of Linux.

Comments?

--
Command Prompt, Inc., home of Mammoth PostgreSQL - S/ODBC and S/JDBC
Postgresql support, programming shared hosting and dedicated hosting.
+1-503-667-4564 - jd@commandpromp t.com - http://www.commandprompt.com
PostgreSQL Replicator -- production quality replication for PostgreSQL
---------------------------(end of broadcast)---------------------------
TIP 3: if posting/reading through Usenet, please send an appropriate
subscribe-nomail command to ma*******@postg resql.org so that your
message can get through to the mailing list cleanly

Nov 22 '05 #57
> why not use pgsql-chat, which isn't being used at all right now ... ?

I would suggest that we consider forming a pgsql-competitive email
list for


Whatever, but using another mailing is definitely an excellent idea. I
actually stopped reading -general recently because it got bogged down
in yet another PostgreSQL vs MySQL debate. And the same happens to
advocacy too, although less frequently.

Then again this means that whoever moderates -general (is that you
Marc?) would have to move PostgreSQL vs MySQL threads to the other
mailing list whenever they crop up, otherwise any benefits will be
lost.

Cheers.

---------------
Francois

Home page: http://www.monpetitcoin.com/

"Would Descartes have programmed in Pascal?" - Umberto Eco
---------------------------(end of broadcast)---------------------------
TIP 3: if posting/reading through Usenet, please send an appropriate
subscribe-nomail command to ma*******@postg resql.org so that your
message can get through to the mailing list cleanly

Nov 22 '05 #58
Hi all,

I have the impression that these "Postgres vs MySQL vs XXX" stuff is
regularly started up by newcomers to this list. So wherever you will
decide to move it, it will still pop up here - the new-comers will know
nothing about being elsewhere, except it is called something very-very
suggestive, like "postgres-mysql-compare".
Even then, it will pop up here too, and it carries the risk of heated
answers even from long term subscribers. Could this be really moderated
?
If there is to be a new list, please name it very-very suggestively,
otherwise it has no point.

Cheers,
Csaba.
On Thu, 2004-01-15 at 16:14, Marc G. Fournier wrote:
why not use pgsql-chat, which isn't being used at all right now ... ?

On Thu, 15 Jan 2004, Chris Travers wrote:
From: "Jonathan Bartlett" <jo*****@eskimo .com>
We need a Postgres vs MySQL Mailing list :)


you are going to laugh but I don't think that this is such a bad idea,
provided that it is not limited to Postgres vs MySQL. Advocacy is good and
all, but they are more interested in promoting PostgreSQL than discussing
competitive issues. In fact, the general list seems to be dedicated to only
2 things:
support of all types and
PostgreSQL vs MySQL.

I would suggest that we consider forming a pgsql-competitive email list for
discussing PostgreSQL and how it compares with other database managers. We
could then send out documents, etc. to other lists (general, advocacy, etc.)
for more general consideration.

We could then look at comparisons regarding Oracle, MySQL, MS SQL, etc.
without cluttering this list or the Advocacy list with material that tends
to be... voluminous but disorganized.

The list could also serve as a place for consultants to go if they want
competitive information relating to other products.

Best Wishes,
Chris Travers
---------------------------(end of broadcast)---------------------------
TIP 7: don't forget to increase your free space map settings


----
Marc G. Fournier Hub.Org Networking Services (http://www.hub.org)
Email: sc*****@hub.org Yahoo!: yscrappy ICQ: 7615664

---------------------------(end of broadcast)---------------------------
TIP 4: Don't 'kill -9' the postmaster

---------------------------(end of broadcast)---------------------------
TIP 8: explain analyze is your friend

Nov 22 '05 #59
Csaba Nagy <na**@ecircle-ag.com> writes:
On Thu, 2004-01-15 at 16:14, Marc G. Fournier wrote:
why not use pgsql-chat, which isn't being used at all right now ... ?
I have the impression that these "Postgres vs MySQL vs XXX" stuff is
regularly started up by newcomers to this list. So wherever you will
decide to move it, it will still pop up here - the new-comers will know
nothing about being elsewhere, except it is called something very-very
suggestive, like "postgres-mysql-compare".
Even then, it will pop up here too, and it carries the risk of heated
answers even from long term subscribers. Could this be really moderated
?
If there is to be a new list, please name it very-very suggestively,
otherwise it has no point.


I think this analysis is dead-on. Pointing to pgsql-chat won't
accomplish anything.

regards, tom lane

---------------------------(end of broadcast)---------------------------
TIP 9: the planner will ignore your desire to choose an index scan if your
joining column's datatypes do not match

Nov 22 '05 #60

This thread has been closed and replies have been disabled. Please start a new discussion.

Similar topics

1
2667
by: Liza | last post by:
Hi, I'm a novice to postgress and need to constract a simple tree. In my table I have: regionID int parentID int name char I need to do two functions: find all the children of XXX parent and find if an item is a child of an XXX parent.
0
9854
marktang
by: marktang | last post by:
ONU (Optical Network Unit) is one of the key components for providing high-speed Internet services. Its primary function is to act as an endpoint device located at the user's premises. However, people are often confused as to whether an ONU can Work As a Router. In this blog post, we’ll explore What is ONU, What Is Router, ONU & Router’s main usage, and What is the difference between ONU and Router. Let’s take a closer look ! Part I. Meaning of...
0
10903
Oralloy
by: Oralloy | last post by:
Hello folks, I am unable to find appropriate documentation on the type promotion of bit-fields when using the generalised comparison operator "<=>". The problem is that using the GNU compilers, it seems that the internal comparison operator "<=>" tries to promote arguments from unsigned to signed. This is as boiled down as I can make it. Here is my compilation command: g++-12 -std=c++20 -Wnarrowing bit_field.cpp Here is the code in...
0
10584
jinu1996
by: jinu1996 | last post by:
In today's digital age, having a compelling online presence is paramount for businesses aiming to thrive in a competitive landscape. At the heart of this digital strategy lies an intricately woven tapestry of website design and digital marketing. It's not merely about having a website; it's about crafting an immersive digital experience that captivates audiences and drives business growth. The Art of Business Website Design Your website is...
0
9425
agi2029
by: agi2029 | last post by:
Let's talk about the concept of autonomous AI software engineers and no-code agents. These AIs are designed to manage the entire lifecycle of a software development project—planning, coding, testing, and deployment—without human intervention. Imagine an AI that can take a project description, break it down, write the code, debug it, and then launch it, all on its own.... Now, this would greatly impact the work of software developers. The idea...
1
7827
isladogs
by: isladogs | last post by:
The next Access Europe User Group meeting will be on Wednesday 1 May 2024 starting at 18:00 UK time (6PM UTC+1) and finishing by 19:30 (7.30PM). In this session, we are pleased to welcome a new presenter, Adolph Dupré who will be discussing some powerful techniques for using class modules. He will explain when you may want to use classes instead of User Defined Types (UDT). For example, to manage the data in unbound forms. Adolph will...
0
7015
by: conductexam | last post by:
I have .net C# application in which I am extracting data from word file and save it in database particularly. To store word all data as it is I am converting the whole word file firstly in HTML and then checking html paragraph one by one. At the time of converting from word file to html my equations which are in the word document file was convert into image. Globals.ThisAddIn.Application.ActiveDocument.Select();...
0
5681
by: TSSRALBI | last post by:
Hello I'm a network technician in training and I need your help. I am currently learning how to create and manage the different types of VPNs and I have a question about LAN-to-LAN VPNs. The last exercise I practiced was to create a LAN-to-LAN VPN between two Pfsense firewalls, by using IPSEC protocols. I succeeded, with both firewalls in the same network. But I'm wondering if it's possible to do the same thing, with 2 Pfsense firewalls...
1
4482
by: 6302768590 | last post by:
Hai team i want code for transfer the data from one system to another through IP address by using C# our system has to for every 5mins then we have to update the data what the data is updated we have to send another system
2
4063
muto222
by: muto222 | last post by:
How can i add a mobile payment intergratation into php mysql website.

By using Bytes.com and it's services, you agree to our Privacy Policy and Terms of Use.

To disable or enable advertisements and analytics tracking please visit the manage ads & tracking page.