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Postgress and MYSQL

To whom it may concern:

I find the recent articles in various trade publications a little
disturbing due to the lack of PostgrSQL mention. I continue to see
articles about how IBM may be considering MYSQL for development an
open_source web database.

Why isn't PostgreSQL being considered or talked about by major industry
giants? As a DBA I know that Postgres is far superior to MYSQL but if
the industry directs it's energies towards open-source database this
coming year I think somehow PostgreSQL needs to be represented better.
Bob Powell
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Nov 22 '05
67 12564
Yes I didn't really want to get into that at the moment, but that is THE
main difference....

That said, there are number of OSS projects that have very nice websites,
and it wouldn't be that much work to clean up the postgresql site a bit.
I'm not talking about a ton of new content, just a simple, clean layout for
the front page that's easier to use. I might even do a template myself and
send it to the list if I can get the time.

Chris

Isn't that true of just about any OSS project? Heck, Linux doesn't even
have a website ;).
MySQL is not an OSS project, it is an OSS product with a commercial
company backing
it. There is a big difference.

Sincerely,

Joshua D. Drake

Now of course that is not true, but perception
governs people's actions and behavior. If people think postgresql is
difficult, guess what, for all intents and purposes it is. If that
perception leads them to use mysql instead of postgresql, then at some pointyou have to face the fact that it's the perceptions that are really
important, regardless of the facts.

Chris


Honestly PG is easy to get up and running on several distributions. On
RH, service postgres start willgive you a running Postgres (it will do aninitdb if needed). Now just create a user and get going.

PG is only hard because people _think_ it's going to be hard. Or becauseit used to be hard. However, it hasn't been hard for a long time.

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Nov 22 '05 #41
I'm not talking about a ton of new content, just a simple, clean layout for
the front page that's easier to use. I might even do a template myself and
send it to the list if I can get the time.
Well before you do that, you might want to look at pgsql-advocacy and
pgsql-www. There
are some arguments going on right now about that very subject :)

Sincerely,
Joshua D. Drake
Chris

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Postgresql support, programming shared hosting and dedicated hosting.
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Nov 22 '05 #42
jd@commandpromp t.com ("Joshua D. Drake") writes:
BTW, I've asked this before but where are the 7.4 docs in PS or PDF format? If


They are being worked on ;)
any one needs or wants them, I do have the 7.3.2-US books (admin, user,
programmer & reference) in PS with the duplexing code. They all fit nicely in a
3" ring binder and will compliment any bookshelf :)


Quick question that popped up when chatting with a friend that's
considering using PG...

The PDF documentation set didn't seem to have _valid_ links from
indices/table-of-contents to the 'destinations.' I don't recall
offhand; might this be that he grabbed something a bit old-and-broken?
Or have there been troubles with this with the DocBook tools?
--
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Christopher Browne
(416) 646 3304 x124 (land)
Nov 22 '05 #43
I will, and glad to hear it is being worked on.

Chris
I'm not talking about a ton of new content, just a simple, clean layout forthe front page that's easier to use. I might even do a template myself andsend it to the list if I can get the time.

Well before you do that, you might want to look at pgsql-advocacy and
pgsql-www. There
are some arguments going on right now about that very subject :)

Sincerely,
Joshua D. Drake
Chris

--
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Nov 22 '05 #44
Mensaje citado por Peter Eisentraut <pe*****@gmx.ne t>:
Martin Marques wrote:
Not really. I just tried to look in the docs for the explicit for of
a CAST (really trying to find the link to send someone), and I just
couldn't find it. I know it's somewhere there, as I have read it
before, but not even the search engine installed in the interactive
docs seem to find that doc.


If you want to find something in the documentation, there's an index at
the end of it. I realize now that there's no entry for CAST, which I
will fix. But if you find more terms that you would like to see in the
index, write to pgsql-docs.


Well, this is something very interesting. I didn't know about pgsql-docs (maybe
it's because I go into the "lists" section in www.postgresql.org not looking at
the lists available, but looking for actual help on a certain list).

I will do so in the future. Thanks alot.

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Nov 22 '05 #45
Mensaje citado por "Keith C. Perry" <ne******@vcsn. com>:

3) Not being able to "find" something in via search BEFORE even reading the
documentation is somewhat backwards. You have to at least get a feel for
the docs before even know what to look for. That is not to say that the
search engine is not problematic but it is to say that I'm am more and
more
convinced that knowing how to search more important than what is being
searched for.
I am totally against this kind of believes.
Personally, I think that one of the most important caracteristics a book should
have is a VERY GOOD INDEX. This makes the searching easier.
I can remember starting with Informix, about 4 years ago, and I can say that
even not being excelent manuals the index really helped me and made me save
lots of time when trying to find a determinated information.
BTW, I've asked this before but where are the 7.4 docs in PS or PDF format?
If
any one needs or wants them, I do have the 7.3.2-US books (admin, user,
programmer & reference) in PS with the duplexing code. They all fit nicely
in a
3" ring binder and will compliment any bookshelf :)


I had the 7.1 printed. Read most of it when my wife was in the hospital having
my daughter, and I had to stay there 2 days. :-)

--
select 'mmarques' || '@' || 'unl.edu.ar' AS email;
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Centro de Telemática | Administrador
Universidad Nacional
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Nov 22 '05 #46
On Wed, Jan 14, 2004 at 09:29:32PM -0300, Martin Marques wrote:
Mensaje citado por "Keith C. Perry" <ne******@vcsn. com>:

3) Not being able to "find" something in via search BEFORE even reading the
documentation is somewhat backwards. You have to at least get a feel for
the docs before even know what to look for. That is not to say that the
search engine is not problematic but it is to say that I'm am more and
more
convinced that knowing how to search more important than what is being
searched for.
I am totally against this kind of believes.
Personally, I think that one of the most important caracteristics a book should
have is a VERY GOOD INDEX. This makes the searching easier.


But the PG docs _have_ good indexes! (Much better than other docs for
open source projects I have seen.) I for one have always found what I
was looking for. Searching in a full text engine is a different matter
and I agree it is lousy (maybe that's the reason I don't use it
anymore).

I had the 7.1 printed. Read most of it when my wife was in the hospital having
my daughter, and I had to stay there 2 days. :-)


Go figure. Maybe I'll start thinking about children so I can have a
spare time to read documentation ... or maybe not ;-)

--
Alvaro Herrera (<alvherre[a]dcc.uchile.cl>)
"I think my standards have lowered enough that now I think 'good design'
is when the page doesn't irritate the living f*ck out of me." (JWZ)

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Nov 22 '05 #47
Mensaje citado por Alvaro Herrera <al******@dcc.u chile.cl>:
On Wed, Jan 14, 2004 at 09:29:32PM -0300, Martin Marques wrote:

I am totally against this kind of believes.
Personally, I think that one of the most important caracteristics a book

should
have is a VERY GOOD INDEX. This makes the searching easier.


But the PG docs _have_ good indexes! (Much better than other docs for
open source projects I have seen.) I for one have always found what I
was looking for. Searching in a full text engine is a different matter
and I agree it is lousy (maybe that's the reason I don't use it
anymore).


CAST wasn't there. :-)
Any way, as I stated before, I find PG docs to be very good. But I know that they
can be even better, so that is what I'm aiming at.
I had the 7.1 printed. Read most of it when my wife was in the hospital having
my daughter, and I had to stay there 2 days. :-)


Go figure. Maybe I'll start thinking about children so I can have a
spare time to read documentation ... or maybe not ;-)


No Alvaro! I had does two days to read. Since then I have had lots of less time for
relaxing with a book. :-)

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Universidad Nacional
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Nov 22 '05 #48
On Wed, 14 Jan 2004, Matt Davies wrote:

Acceptance of PG could be greatly accelerated by more:
1. small projects using PG as a backend (as stated in previous thread post)
2. documenation coming from multiple sources. Don't ask me to explain why, but
one seems to equate robustness, usability, etc... with the more titles one
sees. If you go to Barnes and Noble's and look there for DB books you see the
wall of red (Oracle books), black (M$oft), blue (MySQL). I simply point out
that perception being as it is - PG is not there. I am trying to learn more and
more about it to remedy my newcomer understanding of PG. Do not read this as if
I am a newbie to DB's; I am not ignorant.


I have just gone to www.barnesandnoble.com , and, searched on
postgresql, and got 13 results - including the famous and
previously mentioned "Teach Yourself PostgreSQL in 21 Days", by Chris
Smith, published in December 2002!

:)

--
Bret Busby
Armadale
West Australia
...............

"So once you do know what the question actually is,
you'll know what the answer means."
- Deep Thought,
Chapter 28 of
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A Trilogy In Four Parts",
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Nov 22 '05 #49
From: "Keith C. Perry" <ne******@vcsn. com>
3) Not being able to "find" something in via search BEFORE even reading the documentation is somewhat backwards. You have to at least get a feel for the docs before even know what to look for. That is not to say that the search engine is not problematic but it is to say that I'm am more and more convinced that knowing how to search more important than what is being
searched for.
Well put, and I like the other posts about the usefullness of a really good
index. However, I think that there is an attitude that MySQL docs are
better for beginners because the search really takes the place of the index.
However, IMO, this masks a more subtle issue, see below.
4) As many people pointed out before, a product should not be technical
education it should product education. Some people take it as being rude we some on-list says use google or check <some other site>. Granted
being told "this is not hand holding" is definitely a slap in the face its been done to me and I'm sure there is a better way to put it but the
reality is that PG docs are very good. Get some paper and print
they out double-sided- they're an excellent reference. However, you have to understand the basics first and that simply does not belong on the PG
site (save a link to some community recommendations ).

I agree to a point, in that the PostgreSQL product documentation is product
education, not general database education. However, the "community
recommended links" approach has a number of difficiencies that I don't think
have been discussed much:

1: Community maintained lists of links seems the easy way to go until those
links become broken or change and need to be removed due to inaccurate
content. It may be easier over the long term to maintain our own technical
education database that we have control over.

2: You DO have a problem that PostgreSQL as a product assumes more general
knowledge than MySQL. The docs tend to assume you know stuff, and it would
be nice to have community maintained references on these general topics,
perhaps on techdocs, perhaps elsewhere.

3: MySQL is a database engine which seems to make sense UNTIL you are
technically educated. Competing with MySQL may mean being able to
articulate why ACID complience is important, for example. Or why the
database should abort the operation/transaction rather than truncate your
data in a NUMERIC column.

So what is the alternative? I am working on some documentation but my work
is slowed by my laptop being in the shop. Perhaps we could have a technical
education category in Techdocs?

Best Wishes,
Chris Travers
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Nov 22 '05 #50

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