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Is my MySQL Gaining ?

Dear all,

Their was a huge rore about MySQL recently for something in java functions
now theirs one more

http://www.mysql.com/doc/en/News-5.0.x.html

Does this concern anyone.

What I think is PostgreSQL would have less USP's (Uniqe Selling Points
though we dont sell) now.

What do you think yes we PostgreSQL users need some introspection.

Regards,
Vishal Kashyap.

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TIP 5: Have you checked our extensive FAQ?

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Nov 12 '05
175 11574
A documentation system like the one over at http://php.net, would be
fantastic for Postgresql. There could be lookups based on SQL commands,
Functions, and Sitewide Searches. This alone would go a long way to
expose PHP to "the masses".

In terms of using MySQL or Postgresql, lets all face it, most data
storage work could be easily and efficiently handled by text files,
since there needs to be just infrequent inserts and updates, and mostly
reads. The majority of interfaces exposed on the web follow this
paradigm, and include:
* Content management
* Catalogs
* Shopping cart stuff
* User management

Yes, our powerful and easy to use PG can do all of that too, but SQLite,
Sleepycat DBM files and MySQL can do it as well. There are going to be
even more migrations for Oracle to MySQL than from Oracle to PG, because
so many of those Oracle installations were overkill in the first place.
Our place is in that hoary back end that runs the world, the un-sexy
part of any organization that no one outside of the Development team, or
System Administrators know about.

Getting mindshare is a different problem. That requires PG to have a
full time effective press person. This press person would need to be in
touch with the press constantly to tell them things like:
* PG is a great back for windows clients using ODBC/MS Access/Excel
* PG is a "real" database comparable to Oracle
* PG costs nothing
* Free support is fabulous, and paid support is available
* Development is constant

In the end, I believe that PG needs to move into an organizational
structure so that its considerable assets can be fully realized, its
wonderful developers may be fully compensated, and commercial users (our
bread and butter), can have an official place to help sponsor features
of the system and so on. All this is more than a website. Someone posted
pictures of the PG booth at a show recently. It was nice, but there was
this one sad guy shrouded in darkness -- I felt depressed, because
that's how PG advocacy felt.

Warm regards,
Ericson Smith
DBA/Developer
+-----------------------+----------------------------+
| http://www.did-it.com | "When I'm paid, I always |
| er**@did-it.com | follow the job through. |
| 516-255-0500 | You know that." -Angel Eyes|
+-----------------------+----------------------------+

Karsten Hilbert wrote:
I'm in a similar situation. My app is currently PG-only (although I
_might_ be able to get it work with Firebird eventually). Currently I have
to sell Linux to prospective clients in addition to my app. A native
Windows version would make my life a bit easier.

Same here.

Our "clients" use legacy medical office software that 99% runs
on Windows. We offer add-ons (tailored mini-versions of our
main application :-) and thus get OSS (Python, PostgreSQL,
wxWindows, sometimes Linux itself) into their offices and onto
their networks. Most of the time the main difficulty is to figure
out how to offer PostgreSQL in their environment (yes, we know
about CygWin).

("clients" because we don't do business as in selling stuff)

Karsten Hilbert, MD

www.gnumed.org

---------------------------(end of broadcast)---------------------------
TIP 8: explain analyze is your friend

Nov 12 '05 #81
This has been an interesting thread, with lots of well
considered contributions. The consensus seems to be
"PostgreSQL is plenty good enough and more, we just
need more people to know it, and an easier learning
path".

What bothers me a little here is an apparent lack of
awareness of the work of the Advocacy Group. They
have been organized for a little over one full release
cycle, but have already begun to achieve some
impressive things. The release of version 7.4 saw a
well prepared press release, which was subsequently
picked up by journalists and featured (often lifted
word for word) in articles in a variety of IT industry
publications around the world. The effect was to get
our marketing material in front of the eyes of many
readers, without them having to go looking for it at
all. When did that happen before?

I cite that as just one example of what can be
achieved by an organized and co-ordinated approach,
which is just what the Advocacy Group is working on.
The scope for more development along these lines is
huge, all that is needed is the passage of time, and
hopefully more contributions from more people. I
recommend to all those whose interest was caught by
this thread to check out the pgsql-advocacy list, if
you have not already done so, and think about what you
might be able to add. In answer to the obvious
question, I have been lurking on that list for a
while, and intend to make a contribution where I feel
fitted to do so.

Maybe we need to invent some new solutions, but for
advocacy at least, we already have one.

--- Ericson Smith <er**@did-it.com> wrote:
A documentation system like the one over at
http://php.net, would be
fantastic for Postgresql. There could be lookups
based on SQL commands,
Functions, and Sitewide Searches. This alone would
go a long way to
expose PHP to "the masses".

In terms of using MySQL or Postgresql, lets all face
it, most data
storage work could be easily and efficiently handled
by text files,
since there needs to be just infrequent inserts and
updates, and mostly
reads. The majority of interfaces exposed on the web
follow this
paradigm, and include:
* Content management
* Catalogs
* Shopping cart stuff
* User management

Yes, our powerful and easy to use PG can do all of
that too, but SQLite,
Sleepycat DBM files and MySQL can do it as well.
There are going to be
even more migrations for Oracle to MySQL than from
Oracle to PG, because
so many of those Oracle installations were overkill
in the first place.
Our place is in that hoary back end that runs the
world, the un-sexy
part of any organization that no one outside of the
Development team, or
System Administrators know about.

Getting mindshare is a different problem. That
requires PG to have a
full time effective press person. This press person
would need to be in
touch with the press constantly to tell them things
like:
* PG is a great back for windows clients using
ODBC/MS Access/Excel
* PG is a "real" database comparable to Oracle
* PG costs nothing
* Free support is fabulous, and paid support is
available
* Development is constant

In the end, I believe that PG needs to move into an
organizational
structure so that its considerable assets can be
fully realized, its
wonderful developers may be fully compensated, and
commercial users (our
bread and butter), can have an official place to
help sponsor features
of the system and so on. All this is more than a
website. Someone posted
pictures of the PG booth at a show recently. It was
nice, but there was
this one sad guy shrouded in darkness -- I felt
depressed, because
that's how PG advocacy felt.

Warm regards,
Ericson Smith
DBA/Developer
+-----------------------+----------------------------+ | http://www.did-it.com | "When I'm paid, I always
|
| er**@did-it.com | follow the job through.
|
| 516-255-0500 | You know that." -Angel
Eyes|
+-----------------------+----------------------------+

Karsten Hilbert wrote:
I'm in a similar situation. My app is currently PG-only (although I_might_ be able to get it work with Firebird eventually). Currently I haveto sell Linux to prospective clients in addition to my app. A nativeWindows version would make my life a bit easier.

Same here.

Our "clients" use legacy medical office software

that 99% runs
on Windows. We offer add-ons (tailored

mini-versions of our
main application :-) and thus get OSS (Python,

PostgreSQL,
wxWindows, sometimes Linux itself) into their

offices and onto
their networks. Most of the time the main

difficulty is to figure
out how to offer PostgreSQL in their environment

(yes, we know
about CygWin).

("clients" because we don't do business as in

selling stuff)

Karsten Hilbert, MD

www.gnumed.org
begin:vcard

fn:Ericson Smith
n:Smith;Ericson
org:Did-it.com;Programm ing
adr:#304;;55 Maple Avenue;Rockvill e
Center;NY;11570 ;USA
email;internet: er**@did-it.com
title:Web Developer
tel;work:516-255-0500
tel;cell:646-483-3420
note:Nothing special!
x-mozilla-html:FALSE
url:http://www.did-it.com
version:2.1
end:vcard

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Nov 12 '05 #82
Chris Travers (Sunday 28 December 2003 20:56)
Also, here in Indonesia, most of these B&B's charge less than $30/night.
Purchasing a new system (often $700 or more) is the equivalent of 23
room-nights (for a place which typically has fewer than 10 rooms). Used
PC's are out of the question because usually they have hardware issues, and
so the cost savings would be marginal.


Hmm...good points that I had not considered...I' m used to being here in the
US, where I can go buy a brand new low-end Celeron server for under $200.
Not the greatest piece of hardware, but cheap :).

Vertu sŠll,

--
Sig■ˇr Bj÷rn Jar­arson (Casey Allen Shobe)
http://rivyn.livejournal.com

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TIP 5: Have you checked our extensive FAQ?

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Nov 12 '05 #83
Tony <to**@unihost.n et> writes:
... I DO believe however that a decent introduction to
the more important concepts (Triggers, Fkeys, Stored Proc, Views) that
people from lesser systems (MySQL, Access) may not be familiar with.
What they do, how they help, and why they are generally a good thing.
This intro would probably fit either in the tutorial or in the User Guide.


Many of these subjects already *are* covered in the Tutorial. Just
looking in the 7.4 table of contents, I see

3. Advanced Features
3.1. Introduction
3.2. Views
3.3. Foreign Keys
3.4. Transactions
3.5. Inheritance
3.6. Conclusion

The discussions are skimpy and could use fleshed out a little, no doubt.
(Anyone who wants to contribute material is surely welcome to.)

BTW, there is a separate mailing list pgsql-docs for those who want to
work on documentation.

regards, tom lane

---------------------------(end of broadcast)---------------------------
TIP 4: Don't 'kill -9' the postmaster

Nov 12 '05 #84
Jeff,

I agree; we have an apparent lack of awareness of many things. IMO this
is more indicative of a lack of a unified presence than anything else.
part of the project is on gborg, part of the project is on advocacy,
..... etc.

How would a newbie know to go look for advocacy.postgr esql.org ?.

Dave
On Mon, 2003-12-29 at 10:18, Jeff Eckermann wrote:
This has been an interesting thread, with lots of well
considered contributions. The consensus seems to be
"PostgreSQL is plenty good enough and more, we just
need more people to know it, and an easier learning
path".

What bothers me a little here is an apparent lack of
awareness of the work of the Advocacy Group. They
have been organized for a little over one full release
cycle, but have already begun to achieve some
impressive things. The release of version 7.4 saw a
well prepared press release, which was subsequently
picked up by journalists and featured (often lifted
word for word) in articles in a variety of IT industry
publications around the world. The effect was to get
our marketing material in front of the eyes of many
readers, without them having to go looking for it at
all. When did that happen before?

I cite that as just one example of what can be
achieved by an organized and co-ordinated approach,
which is just what the Advocacy Group is working on.
The scope for more development along these lines is
huge, all that is needed is the passage of time, and
hopefully more contributions from more people. I
recommend to all those whose interest was caught by
this thread to check out the pgsql-advocacy list, if
you have not already done so, and think about what you
might be able to add. In answer to the obvious
question, I have been lurking on that list for a
while, and intend to make a contribution where I feel
fitted to do so.

Maybe we need to invent some new solutions, but for
advocacy at least, we already have one.

--- Ericson Smith <er**@did-it.com> wrote:
A documentation system like the one over at
http://php.net, would be
fantastic for Postgresql. There could be lookups
based on SQL commands,
Functions, and Sitewide Searches. This alone would
go a long way to
expose PHP to "the masses".

In terms of using MySQL or Postgresql, lets all face
it, most data
storage work could be easily and efficiently handled
by text files,
since there needs to be just infrequent inserts and
updates, and mostly
reads. The majority of interfaces exposed on the web
follow this
paradigm, and include:
* Content management
* Catalogs
* Shopping cart stuff
* User management

Yes, our powerful and easy to use PG can do all of
that too, but SQLite,
Sleepycat DBM files and MySQL can do it as well.
There are going to be
even more migrations for Oracle to MySQL than from
Oracle to PG, because
so many of those Oracle installations were overkill
in the first place.
Our place is in that hoary back end that runs the
world, the un-sexy
part of any organization that no one outside of the
Development team, or
System Administrators know about.

Getting mindshare is a different problem. That
requires PG to have a
full time effective press person. This press person
would need to be in
touch with the press constantly to tell them things
like:
* PG is a great back for windows clients using
ODBC/MS Access/Excel
* PG is a "real" database comparable to Oracle
* PG costs nothing
* Free support is fabulous, and paid support is
available
* Development is constant

In the end, I believe that PG needs to move into an
organizational
structure so that its considerable assets can be
fully realized, its
wonderful developers may be fully compensated, and
commercial users (our
bread and butter), can have an official place to
help sponsor features
of the system and so on. All this is more than a
website. Someone posted
pictures of the PG booth at a show recently. It was
nice, but there was
this one sad guy shrouded in darkness -- I felt
depressed, because
that's how PG advocacy felt.

Warm regards,
Ericson Smith
DBA/Developer

+-----------------------+----------------------------+
| http://www.did-it.com | "When I'm paid, I always
|
| er**@did-it.com | follow the job through.
|
| 516-255-0500 | You know that." -Angel
Eyes|

+-----------------------+----------------------------+


Karsten Hilbert wrote:
>I'm in a similar situation. My app is currently

PG-only (although I
>_might_ be able to get it work with Firebird

eventually). Currently I have
>to sell Linux to prospective clients in addition

to my app. A native
>Windows version would make my life a bit easier.
>
>
Same here.

Our "clients" use legacy medical office software

that 99% runs
on Windows. We offer add-ons (tailored

mini-versions of our
main application :-) and thus get OSS (Python,

PostgreSQL,
wxWindows, sometimes Linux itself) into their

offices and onto
their networks. Most of the time the main

difficulty is to figure
out how to offer PostgreSQL in their environment

(yes, we know
about CygWin).

("clients" because we don't do business as in

selling stuff)

Karsten Hilbert, MD

www.gnumed.org
begin:vcard

fn:Ericson Smith
n:Smith;Ericson
org:Did-it.com;Programm ing
adr:#304;;55 Maple Avenue;Rockvill e
Center;NY;11570 ;USA
email;internet: er**@did-it.com
title:Web Developer
tel;work:516-255-0500
tel;cell:646-483-3420
note:Nothing special!
x-mozilla-html:FALSE
url:http://www.did-it.com
version:2.1
end:vcard

---------------------------(end of
broadcast)---------------------------
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_______________ _______________ ____
Do you Yahoo!?
New Yahoo! Photos - easier uploading and sharing.
http://photos.yahoo.com/

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--
Dave Cramer
519 939 0336
ICQ # 1467551
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Nov 12 '05 #85
Quoting Shridhar Daithankar <sh************ *****@myrealbox .com>:
On Monday 29 December 2003 12:47, Tom Lane wrote:
Shridhar Daithankar <sh************ *****@myrealbox .com> writes:
That is right. but that fact remains that postgresql documentation is
just sufficient. If you read the manual and follow it religously to comma and fullstop, it tells you everythings. But it certainly isn't a place
where you can glance over it and get hang of it.


This is surely true, and I've not seen anyone denying it. The people


Well, for newbies to postgresql, let's state this fact upfront and not make
them discover it..:-)
who are doing development are, um, not strong at documentation (I
include myself here). What we need are some folks to step up and
improve the documentation --- and then maintain it in the face of future
changes. Any volunteers out there? This is an open-source project
after all, and that means "scratch your own itch" among other things...


If you ask me, let's not do that. Not at least on a grand scale. Isolated
areas are OK on case by case basis..

I regualrly use development build documentation from
developers.post gresql.org
and I have seen the documentation in source code. In my view, postgresql
developers do document it very clearly whenever required.

If we dilute the documentation too much, that will make things simpler
initially but that will simply create a maintainance nightmare as one has to

maintain much larger amount of documentation.

And once you get used to precise style of postgresql documentation, going
back
to anything else is a pain. ( MSDN.. I scream at nights.... but I digress).

IMO documentation of postgresql is fine overall. What we need to do is.

1. State upfront that this is not handholding.

It will make lots of things easier and offload work of expanding documents
given limited human resources working on the project. A disclaimer is far
easier to maintain than a manual..:-)

And it will prepare anybody for upcoming hardships..:-)

2. Document and reuse it.

Personally I would like to see responses on general and oter such list as
URLs. If we answer it repeatedly, let's document it and point the people to
them. Let them dig around 3-4 URLs around it and they will have islands of
enlightenments. Over the period, these island will merge in a great
landscape..:-)

Just a thought..

Shridhar

P.S. If somebody thinks I can not imagine how a newbie feels, I will agree.
But looking back, dumbing down anything is not good in long term..an
experience that is
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Shridhar,

I tend to agree with you. I personally think the docs are very good and have
the techical depth warranted for a product like PostgreSQL. On the other hand
for the ad & m (advocacy and marketing) side of things. I'm betting some
clearly labelled tutorials/guide next to the disclaimer about the the main docs
be more of a reference would appease those who might be a bit green to a product
of PG breadth and depth (heck I still think I'm in the category sometimes).

'bout two weeks ago there was another thread where certificating/training et al
were discussed and one of the things that I had mentioned was that in that
regard, we should probably have more tutorial/guide based on real world
scenarios available on techdocs. Although I don't think I qualified to write
for the main docs, I definitely can contribute to the techdocs in the manner I
just mentioned.

Matter a fact, I finally finish my first one "Using PostgreSQL for Domino 6
RDBMS Backends". I'm doing the final read now so hopefully I can get it over to
Robert for posting.

Perhaps the "newer" folks on the list could tell us what type of guides they
want to see. I'm sure someone has a wish list somewhere.

--
Keith C. Perry, MS E.E.
Director of Networks & Applications
VCSN, Inc.
http://vcsn.com

_______________ _______________ ______
This email account is being host by:
VCSN, Inc : http://vcsn.com

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Nov 12 '05 #86
Quoting Tom Lane <tg*@sss.pgh.pa .us>:
Tony <to**@unihost.n et> writes:
... I DO believe however that a decent introduction to
the more important concepts (Triggers, Fkeys, Stored Proc, Views) that
people from lesser systems (MySQL, Access) may not be familiar with.
What they do, how they help, and why they are generally a good thing.
This intro would probably fit either in the tutorial or in the User Guide.


Many of these subjects already *are* covered in the Tutorial. Just
looking in the 7.4 table of contents, I see

3. Advanced Features
3.1. Introduction
3.2. Views
3.3. Foreign Keys
3.4. Transactions
3.5. Inheritance
3.6. Conclusion

The discussions are skimpy and could use fleshed out a little, no doubt.
(Anyone who wants to contribute material is surely welcome to.)

BTW, there is a separate mailing list pgsql-docs for those who want to
work on documentation.

regards, tom lane

---------------------------(end of broadcast)---------------------------
TIP 4: Don't 'kill -9' the postmaster


This concerns me. This is the second time recently someone has said something
is NOT documented and it it turn out it is.

So my question is (no offense to anyone) are the web sites not "clear" enough to
find information quickly or are people just being lax/lazy when they are searching.
--
Keith C. Perry, MS E.E.
Director of Networks & Applications
VCSN, Inc.
http://vcsn.com

_______________ _______________ ______
This email account is being host by:
VCSN, Inc : http://vcsn.com

---------------------------(end of broadcast)---------------------------
TIP 4: Don't 'kill -9' the postmaster

Nov 12 '05 #87
Quoting Karsten Hilbert <Ka************ *@gmx.net>:
I'm in a similar situation. My app is currently PG-only (although I
_might_ be able to get it work with Firebird eventually). Currently I have

to sell Linux to prospective clients in addition to my app. A native
Windows version would make my life a bit easier.

Same here.

Our "clients" use legacy medical office software that 99% runs
on Windows. We offer add-ons (tailored mini-versions of our
main application :-) and thus get OSS (Python, PostgreSQL,
wxWindows, sometimes Linux itself) into their offices and onto
their networks. Most of the time the main difficulty is to figure
out how to offer PostgreSQL in their environment (yes, we know
about CygWin).

("clients" because we don't do business as in selling stuff)

Karsten Hilbert, MD

www.gnumed.org
--
GPG key ID E4071346 @ wwwkeys.pgp.net
E167 67FD A291 2BEA 73BD 4537 78B9 A9F9 E407 1346

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I know in a lot of environments this would not be via, especially a medical one
where information is sensitive but have you considered using a hoster to house
your app/database and then writing (windows) clients (with secure backends)?

There are a number of hosters including myself that would probably be more that
willing to partner with you see how with can be does so that it an acceptable
scenario all the way around.

-$0.02

--
Keith C. Perry, MS E.E.
Director of Networks & Applications
VCSN, Inc.
http://vcsn.com

_______________ _______________ ______
This email account is being host by:
VCSN, Inc : http://vcsn.com

---------------------------(end of broadcast)---------------------------
TIP 8: explain analyze is your friend

Nov 12 '05 #88
Quoting Jeff Eckermann <je************ @yahoo.com>:
This has been an interesting thread, with lots of well
considered contributions. The consensus seems to be
"PostgreSQL is plenty good enough and more, we just
need more people to know it, and an easier learning
path".

What bothers me a little here is an apparent lack of
awareness of the work of the Advocacy Group. They
have been organized for a little over one full release
cycle, but have already begun to achieve some
impressive things. The release of version 7.4 saw a
well prepared press release, which was subsequently
picked up by journalists and featured (often lifted
word for word) in articles in a variety of IT industry
publications around the world. The effect was to get
our marketing material in front of the eyes of many
readers, without them having to go looking for it at
all. When did that happen before?

I cite that as just one example of what can be
achieved by an organized and co-ordinated approach,
which is just what the Advocacy Group is working on.
The scope for more development along these lines is
huge, all that is needed is the passage of time, and
hopefully more contributions from more people. I
recommend to all those whose interest was caught by
this thread to check out the pgsql-advocacy list, if
you have not already done so, and think about what you
might be able to add. In answer to the obvious
question, I have been lurking on that list for a
while, and intend to make a contribution where I feel
fitted to do so.

Maybe we need to invent some new solutions, but for
advocacy at least, we already have one.

--- Ericson Smith <er**@did-it.com> wrote:
A documentation system like the one over at
http://php.net, would be
fantastic for Postgresql. There could be lookups
based on SQL commands,
Functions, and Sitewide Searches. This alone would
go a long way to
expose PHP to "the masses".

In terms of using MySQL or Postgresql, lets all face
it, most data
storage work could be easily and efficiently handled
by text files,
since there needs to be just infrequent inserts and
updates, and mostly
reads. The majority of interfaces exposed on the web
follow this
paradigm, and include:
* Content management
* Catalogs
* Shopping cart stuff
* User management

Yes, our powerful and easy to use PG can do all of
that too, but SQLite,
Sleepycat DBM files and MySQL can do it as well.
There are going to be
even more migrations for Oracle to MySQL than from
Oracle to PG, because
so many of those Oracle installations were overkill
in the first place.
Our place is in that hoary back end that runs the
world, the un-sexy
part of any organization that no one outside of the
Development team, or
System Administrators know about.

Getting mindshare is a different problem. That
requires PG to have a
full time effective press person. This press person
would need to be in
touch with the press constantly to tell them things
like:
* PG is a great back for windows clients using
ODBC/MS Access/Excel
* PG is a "real" database comparable to Oracle
* PG costs nothing
* Free support is fabulous, and paid support is
available
* Development is constant

In the end, I believe that PG needs to move into an
organizational
structure so that its considerable assets can be
fully realized, its
wonderful developers may be fully compensated, and
commercial users (our
bread and butter), can have an official place to
help sponsor features
of the system and so on. All this is more than a
website. Someone posted
pictures of the PG booth at a show recently. It was
nice, but there was
this one sad guy shrouded in darkness -- I felt
depressed, because
that's how PG advocacy felt.

Warm regards,
Ericson Smith
DBA/Developer

+-----------------------+----------------------------+
| http://www.did-it.com | "When I'm paid, I always
|
| er**@did-it.com | follow the job through.
|
| 516-255-0500 | You know that." -Angel
Eyes|

+-----------------------+----------------------------+


Karsten Hilbert wrote:
>I'm in a similar situation. My app is currently

PG-only (although I
>_might_ be able to get it work with Firebird

eventually). Currently I have
>to sell Linux to prospective clients in addition

to my app. A native
>Windows version would make my life a bit easier.
>
>
Same here.

Our "clients" use legacy medical office software

that 99% runs
on Windows. We offer add-ons (tailored

mini-versions of our
main application :-) and thus get OSS (Python,

PostgreSQL,
wxWindows, sometimes Linux itself) into their

offices and onto
their networks. Most of the time the main

difficulty is to figure
out how to offer PostgreSQL in their environment

(yes, we know
about CygWin).

("clients" because we don't do business as in

selling stuff)

Karsten Hilbert, MD

www.gnumed.org
begin:vcard

fn:Ericson Smith
n:Smith;Ericson
org:Did-it.com;Programm ing
adr:#304;;55 Maple Avenue;Rockvill e
Center;NY;11570 ;USA
email;internet: er**@did-it.com
title:Web Developer
tel;work:516-255-0500
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I've been meaning to join Jeff 'cause I'm tired of seeing my cross-posted
replies rejected but see, "what had happened was..." *laff*

Seriously though, you guys are doing a hard job in a hard arena. The 7.4 press
release got forwarded alot!

--
Keith C. Perry, MS E.E.
Director of Networks & Applications
VCSN, Inc.
http://vcsn.com

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Nov 12 '05 #89
Quoting Dave Cramer <pg@fastcrypt.c om>:
Jeff,

I agree; we have an apparent lack of awareness of many things. IMO this
is more indicative of a lack of a unified presence than anything else.
part of the project is on gborg, part of the project is on advocacy,
.... etc.

How would a newbie know to go look for advocacy.postgr esql.org ?.

Dave
On Mon, 2003-12-29 at 10:18, Jeff Eckermann wrote:
This has been an interesting thread, with lots of well
considered contributions. The consensus seems to be
"PostgreSQL is plenty good enough and more, we just
need more people to know it, and an easier learning
path".

What bothers me a little here is an apparent lack of
awareness of the work of the Advocacy Group. They
have been organized for a little over one full release
cycle, but have already begun to achieve some
impressive things. The release of version 7.4 saw a
well prepared press release, which was subsequently
picked up by journalists and featured (often lifted
word for word) in articles in a variety of IT industry
publications around the world. The effect was to get
our marketing material in front of the eyes of many
readers, without them having to go looking for it at
all. When did that happen before?

I cite that as just one example of what can be
achieved by an organized and co-ordinated approach,
which is just what the Advocacy Group is working on.
The scope for more development along these lines is
huge, all that is needed is the passage of time, and
hopefully more contributions from more people. I
recommend to all those whose interest was caught by
this thread to check out the pgsql-advocacy list, if
you have not already done so, and think about what you
might be able to add. In answer to the obvious
question, I have been lurking on that list for a
while, and intend to make a contribution where I feel
fitted to do so.

Maybe we need to invent some new solutions, but for
advocacy at least, we already have one.

--- Ericson Smith <er**@did-it.com> wrote:
A documentation system like the one over at
http://php.net, would be
fantastic for Postgresql. There could be lookups
based on SQL commands,
Functions, and Sitewide Searches. This alone would
go a long way to
expose PHP to "the masses".

In terms of using MySQL or Postgresql, lets all face
it, most data
storage work could be easily and efficiently handled
by text files,
since there needs to be just infrequent inserts and
updates, and mostly
reads. The majority of interfaces exposed on the web
follow this
paradigm, and include:
* Content management
* Catalogs
* Shopping cart stuff
* User management

Yes, our powerful and easy to use PG can do all of
that too, but SQLite,
Sleepycat DBM files and MySQL can do it as well.
There are going to be
even more migrations for Oracle to MySQL than from
Oracle to PG, because
so many of those Oracle installations were overkill
in the first place.
Our place is in that hoary back end that runs the
world, the un-sexy
part of any organization that no one outside of the
Development team, or
System Administrators know about.

Getting mindshare is a different problem. That
requires PG to have a
full time effective press person. This press person
would need to be in
touch with the press constantly to tell them things
like:
* PG is a great back for windows clients using
ODBC/MS Access/Excel
* PG is a "real" database comparable to Oracle
* PG costs nothing
* Free support is fabulous, and paid support is
available
* Development is constant

In the end, I believe that PG needs to move into an
organizational
structure so that its considerable assets can be
fully realized, its
wonderful developers may be fully compensated, and
commercial users (our
bread and butter), can have an official place to
help sponsor features
of the system and so on. All this is more than a
website. Someone posted
pictures of the PG booth at a show recently. It was
nice, but there was
this one sad guy shrouded in darkness -- I felt
depressed, because
that's how PG advocacy felt.

Warm regards,
Ericson Smith
DBA/Developer

+-----------------------+----------------------------+
| http://www.did-it.com | "When I'm paid, I always
|
| er**@did-it.com | follow the job through.
|
| 516-255-0500 | You know that." -Angel
Eyes|

+-----------------------+----------------------------+


Karsten Hilbert wrote:

>>I'm in a similar situation. My app is currently
PG-only (although I
>>_might_ be able to get it work with Firebird
eventually). Currently I have
>>to sell Linux to prospective clients in addition
to my app. A native
>>Windows version would make my life a bit easier.
>>
>>
>Same here.
>
>Our "clients" use legacy medical office software
that 99% runs
>on Windows. We offer add-ons (tailored
mini-versions of our
>main application :-) and thus get OSS (Python,
PostgreSQL,
>wxWindows, sometimes Linux itself) into their
offices and onto
>their networks. Most of the time the main
difficulty is to figure
>out how to offer PostgreSQL in their environment
(yes, we know
>about CygWin).
>
>("clients" because we don't do business as in
selling stuff)
>
>Karsten Hilbert, MD
>
>www.gnumed.org
>
>
> begin:vcard
fn:Ericson Smith
n:Smith;Ericson
org:Did-it.com;Programm ing
adr:#304;;55 Maple Avenue;Rockvill e
Center;NY;11570 ;USA
email;internet: er**@did-it.com
title:Web Developer
tel;work:516-255-0500
tel;cell:646-483-3420
note:Nothing special!
x-mozilla-html:FALSE
url:http://www.did-it.com
version:2.1
end:vcard

>
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--
Dave Cramer
519 939 0336
ICQ # 1467551
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Dave,

I'm not trying to be curt with you or anything but a serious questions, did you
not see the links on the right side of http://www.postgresql.org under where it
says websites?

--
Keith C. Perry, MS E.E.
Director of Networks & Applications
VCSN, Inc.
http://vcsn.com

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Nov 12 '05 #90

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