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Is my MySQL Gaining ?

Dear all,

Their was a huge rore about MySQL recently for something in java functions
now theirs one more

http://www.mysql.com/doc/en/News-5.0.x.html

Does this concern anyone.

What I think is PostgreSQL would have less USP's (Uniqe Selling Points
though we dont sell) now.

What do you think yes we PostgreSQL users need some introspection.

Regards,
Vishal Kashyap.

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Nov 12 '05
175 11565
On Sun, Dec 28, 2003 at 12:57:10PM -0500, Casey Allen Shobe wrote:
Martijn van Oosterhout (Sunday 28 December 2003 04:56)
Interesting, I found them in psql's manpage under ADVANCED FEATURES -
VARIABLES. Let's see if I can find it on the web... Here's a web version of
the manpage.
Ahh, I have seen those...but they're specific to psql, and if memory serves me
correct I wasn't able to use the variables within queries, either. I need
something I can use over ODBC (within a single transaction, of course).
These can sometimes solve problems that you can't seem to solve any other
way, and other times can improve query response time *greatly* (say, by
running a subquery once and assigning the result to a variable used 40 times
in the final statement instead of running 40 subqueries).


Ah, I see what you mean. The psql ones can be used in queries, as long as
it's not inside a string (eg function body IIRC).

kleptog=# \set var 31
kleptog=# select :var;
?column?
----------
31
(1 row)

<examples> http://199.72.170.146/~sigthor/docum...mple_query.txt
http://199.72.170.146/~sigthor/docum...ple_query2.txt
Aah, right. In those situations I tend to use temp tables myself. For
example, I have some programs which run a bit like:

select into temp month month from <rest of SQL statement>

select <really complicated SQL that references month.month>

Unfortunatly recent versions of Postgres tend to complain about missing
tables in FROM clause which is mildly irritating, since they're not really
tables from my point of view. Also, sometimes you need to run a quick
analyze over the table to give the planner the right hints.

Not ideal I'll grant you. In some ways some syntactic sugar would be nice.
--
Martijn van Oosterhout <kl*****@svana. org> http://svana.org/kleptog/ (... have gone from d-i being barely usable even by its developers
anywhere, to being about 20% done. Sweet. And the last 80% usually takes
20% of the time, too, right?) -- Anthony Towns, debian-devel-announce


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Nov 12 '05 #61
I was thinking more along the lines of a company that said "Hey, we've
got a core app on MySQL which is running like a bag of bolts, can you
come and troubleshoot it for us." A company quite rightly would get a
little edgy with someone saying sorry guys, it's new DB time. You'd
want to go and work with them and help them to move in the right direction.

Keith C. Perry wrote:
Quoting Tony <to**@unihost.n et>:
Sadly a company will believe anything that a consultant they trust tells
them. Otherwise there'd be little point in hiring a consultant to give
them advice would there?
There are different levels of trust and in addition sometimes consultants are
used for feasibility studies- "how would you do this?" If you're telling me
you've never been in a situation where a client called you in because they want
to implement a project with certain products or other specification because they
have "done the research and want to proceed this way" then I'm very glad to hear
that. No matter how much you are trusted as a consultant or technical advisor
you are still just a guide. That means it is possible for your client is "wander
off the path". I remember in the not so long ago days when people wanted to run
certain hardware or software because to not do so would give the perception that
you were not up to par. Sometimes what is used has nothing to do with using the
best product for the job. That seems to be a sub-text of this thread.


Exactly!! I've been in a position where no matter how hard Linux has
been rationalised as the right solution for a job, the management and
board have been Windows Marketed, and refuse to go any other way. I've
also been at companies where the entire global operation was a Novell
shop looking at an upgrade bill well into the high 7 digits, when MS
came along and said well give you the OSs for free if you migrate. You
just can't factor in for situations like that. Although some companies,
like one I have just worked for, have no technical in house ability at
all and listened to a reputable consultant, who didn't necessarilly make
the right decisions. The company certainly didn't have anyone within to
checkup on the consultant with their own research. These tend to be
smaller companies with smaller budgets, staff number in double digits
with 7 figure turnovers, these smaller companies are typically my normal
client. They've often been given advice which wasn't exactly long term
advice. My name seems to be getting thrown around as a trouble
shooter/fixer. I'd like the opportunity to get in on the ground floor
of fresh projects, but sadly have not reached that reputable stage yet.

It seems rather illogical that you'd refuse to work with a company that
had been given potentially sub-standard advice, based on what appears to
be a theological view?
I'm sure the MySQL folks don't think they are sub-standard. A fair amount of my
business is "clean up" so if someone said, "we have an app on MySQL that is not
working for us" I would most definitely be interested. If someone said to me
what DB do I use to build applications, I would say PG. If then someone says to
me that "well we're a MySQL shop" then I would have to hear more because
depending on what they want to do, I might not take on that project. There is
nothing illogical or theological in that.


Absolutely nothing wrong with that. Apologies as that's not how I
interpreted your email. My bad on that.

Either that or you have more consulting work than you know what to do
with, that you can afford to base business decisions on an ideological
basis.
This really doesn't make sense. Are you telling me you are going to accept any
an all work regardless of competency and confidence in that product? Would you
really build a financial application on MySQL? We both know that we all have a
certain ideology (read: religion) when it comes to our trade. To be clear, I'm
not saying anything against someone who would use MySQL for a financial app.
I'm just saying that I would not (or at least try very hard not to) involve
myself in that project or any other project where I thought there was a bad
design or implementation.


To a certian extend you're right although if I had something useful to
offer to the project, I'd certainly want to be there when (inevitably)
someone (MySQL) dropped the ball and make sure PG was right there to
pick up the pieces. I certainly don't have a religion though, I always
try to use the right tool for the job at hand. The bad thing about many
advocates in the OS environment is that they have the Linux hammer, and
everything they see tends to look like a nail. This is also true for
MySQL and many other projects.
When you are a smaller operation your reputation is going to weigh in a lot more
than a larger company. I do not want my name to be tied to something
sub-standard. If a consultant values his or her reputation I don't see how you
can NOT consider what products you are willing to put your name on the line for.


Agreed, but MySQL is not bad for everything, like all software it has a
place in the great scheme of things. IMHO it's a perfect way to get your
feet wet in the RDBMS world, it's the next step up from Paradox, Access,
etc. How many key applications in a even a large company have you seen
using Access, it's natural project sprawl.

If I chose not to work with companies that used Windows as servers
(because IMHO, Windows is not a good server environment) my house
would've been repossessed, and I'd have probably starved by now.

T.


12 years ago calling myself a consultant one day meant putting in a netware 3.11
server for a bunch of PCs and MACs and pulling coax. Did I want to do that- I
can't really say because at the time I had to eat. That for me is on the outer
fringes of this thread. Few organzations are NOT using Windows somewhere, and
an increasing number of organizations are starting understand OSS solutions. So
both world are merging so it not about avoiding and one thing. Its about
picking an choosing your battles.

Keith C. Perry wrote:
The way I look at it is that I probably don't want to deal with a
company that thinks that MySQL on windows is "good environment".




Nov 12 '05 #62
Alas, it's one of the biggest shortcomings of email. My apologies for
grasping the wrong end of the stick.

All of your points are valid, but there is always room for a larger
user community, especially in one that is almost entirely voluntary.
It's OK to be aloof and niche, Debian has done just fine by it, in very
many ways it far superior to Mandrake, Redhat, and many many others (I
use it myself on all of my servers) but it doesn't excel in terms of
accessability to the novice or even intermediate Linux users. Visit the
#debian channel, and most of the people there will help you a great deal
until they get bored with your newbieness and start sighing and telling
you to RTFM. There is always a hardcore of advanced users however who
will always help as far as they can, as long as they are Debian related
Q's (I don't think anyone would be interested in "How do I use ftp" type
Q's), a very similar story is true of the perl community (nothing
personal Randall). I see very many parallels in all the advanced OS
software and there are elements of this in PostgreSQL community, whilst
the PG people in general are not quite as aloof as the Debian crowd,
there are definite undertones of "Hey, If you're not good enough to
appreciate us, then Tough Poopie to you!"

This was very much how the Linux community was seen for the longest
time, fortunately due to some vary hard advocacy work by some very
dedicated people and talent programmers working hard on accessibility
issues, Linux itself is now (mostly) far more accessible to many more
people. I never expected to see so many people talking about Linux on
the desktop so soon.

The main point I'm trying to hit, is this how PostgreSQL community
chooses to be viewed, or do they want to become a little more warm and
fuzzy and have journalists cooing over PG. Either choice is a double
edged sword.

Those who can RTFM nearly always will, the others will probably use
MySQL instead and get spoonfed by a more accessible piece of software
that also runs on Windows.

I'm trying to provoke thought rather than conflict here. Where does PG
community see its place in the big picture?

Regards

T.
PostgreSQL, Putting the .org into your Organization.
========
Casey Allen Shobe wrote:
Tony (Sunday 28 December 2003 10:30)

I think...you read my E-mail quite a bit differently than how I wrote it.

Vertu sll,


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Nov 12 '05 #63
Keith C. Perry wrote:
Quoting Gaetano Mendola <me*****@bigfoo t.com>:

May you please explain me why the GUI must be on the same DB server?
After all is better have the user's hand far away from the datas.

If its a small hotel or B&B I would think an addtional workstation might be cost
prohibitive. Then again, that might simply be the way they want it.


Cost prohibitive ?
So you mean that put the DB and the GUI on the same
Windows workstation is less expensive that leave the GUI on a windows
system and the DB on a *nix box.
Your client is aware of about much cost loose his datas ?

I repeat again: "Don't put your DB host under the hand of the
final user" don't mentioning the fact that the host is a windows host!
Regards
Gaetano Mendola
Nov 12 '05 #64
Keith,

In principal it can, however lets say that I am a complete newbie to
postgres and I want to use my favourite interface odbc, jdbc, .... etc.

So I download the source tarball and build it, then I goto find my
interface ... and it isn't there ( in all fairness jdbc is still there
but that won't be true shortly )

The same is true for most tools; psql being the exception

Now what do I do, I have to hunt around for the tools looking through a
myriad of projects on gborg, go to the lists etc.

Admittedly this deterrent won't stop a determined newbie from finding
what they are after, but I'm sure there are some folk who would just
assume that postgres is deficient in this area. Note some previous posts
from others which demonstrates my point.
http://archives.postgresql.org/pgsql...2/msg01358.php

This gentleman finally found pgadmin III which solved his problem. But
I'm sure he had to look for it.
Dave
On Sun, 2003-12-28 at 13:00, Keith C. Perry wrote:
I've asked this before and I'll apologize now if there was a response but how
does http://gborg.postgresql.org NOT fill this.

Quoting Chris Travers <ch***@travelam ericas.com>:
Hi all;

The problem with trying to maintain an image of unity is that PostgreSQL is
moving in a direction of being sort of like a kernel. In this sense, we
already are unified. But regarding new types, client libs, etc. then unity
is neither necessary nor desirable IMO.

If that is something that some people see here as important, maybe they can
start their own PostgreSQL "distributions. " Maybe we can link to them via
the PostgreSQL advocacy site :-)

Best Wishes,
Chris Travers

----- Original Message -----
From: "Dave Cramer" <pg@fastcrypt.c om>
To: "Robert Treat" <xz****@users.s ourceforge.net>
Cc: "Marc G. Fournier" <sc*****@postgr esql.org>;
<pg***********@ postgresql.org>
Sent: Sunday, December 28, 2003 5:31 AM
Subject: Re: [GENERAL] Is my MySQL Gaining ?

Well, I'm not suggesting that we force them to do anything, just give
the appearance of unity, this should be possible with tools available,
no?

Dave
On Sat, 2003-12-27 at 16:57, Robert Treat wrote:
> But your examples also lists things like interface libraries. For
> postgresql to do that, we would have to pick specific interfaces
> applications / libraries, then have them all centralize their
> development/release process around the main distribution. If you can get
> everyone to agree to this (and I recommend starting by picking the
> official python interface), we can start down a unified path, but I
> don't see it happening.
>
> Robert Treat
>
> On Sat, 2003-12-27 at 09:41, Dave Cramer wrote:
> > Regardless of the reasons, perception is reality. If we appear to be
> > disheveled then we are.
> >
> > I would think that it should be possible to give the appearance of

unity
> > without actually requiring a full time web-master?
> >
> >
> > Dave
> >
> > On Fri, 2003-12-26 at 12:43, Marc G. Fournier wrote:
> > > On Fri, 26 Dec 2003, Dave Cramer wrote:
> > >
> > > > One thing that they do have over postgres is a unified experience,

one
> > > > doesn't have to go to n different sites to find things, such as
> > > > interface libraries, advocacy sites, development sites, etc.
> > >
> > > Course they don't ... cause they have one, full time, paid webmaster

that
> > > has nothing else on his plate ... one advantage to being able to

control
> > > everything is the ability to keep everything centralized ...
> > >
> > > >
> > > > Dave
> > > >
> > > > On Fri, 2003-12-26 at 11:53, Marc G. Fournier wrote:
> > > > > On Fri, 26 Dec 2003, B. van Ouwerkerk wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > > I think I will switch to PG anywhere soon but sometimes it's

hard to
> > > > > > find whatever information I need. Google is a great help but I

would
> > > > > > expect it in the docs.
> > > > >
> > > > > Like ... ?
> > > > >
> > > > > ----
> > > > > Marc G. Fournier Hub.Org Networking Services

(http://www.hub.org)
> > > > > Email: sc*****@hub.org Yahoo!: yscrappy

ICQ: 7615664
> > > > >
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Nov 12 '05 #65
Quoting Tony <to**@unihost.n et>:
I was thinking more along the lines of a company that said "Hey, we've
got a core app on MySQL which is running like a bag of bolts, can you
come and troubleshoot it for us." A company quite rightly would get a
little edgy with someone saying sorry guys, it's new DB time. You'd
want to go and work with them and help them to move in the right direction.
Ahh- that is definitely the type of thing we do.
Keith C. Perry wrote:
Quoting Tony <to**@unihost.n et>:
Sadly a company will believe anything that a consultant they trust tells
them. Otherwise there'd be little point in hiring a consultant to give
them advice would there?


There are different levels of trust and in addition sometimes consultants

are
used for feasibility studies- "how would you do this?" If you're telling

me
you've never been in a situation where a client called you in because they

want
to implement a project with certain products or other specification because

they
have "done the research and want to proceed this way" then I'm very glad to

hear
that. No matter how much you are trusted as a consultant or technical

advisor
you are still just a guide. That means it is possible for your client is

"wander
off the path". I remember in the not so long ago days when people wanted to

run
certain hardware or software because to not do so would give the perception

that
you were not up to par. Sometimes what is used has nothing to do with using

the
best product for the job. That seems to be a sub-text of this thread.


Exactly!! I've been in a position where no matter how hard Linux has
been rationalised as the right solution for a job, the management and
board have been Windows Marketed, and refuse to go any other way. I've
also been at companies where the entire global operation was a Novell
shop looking at an upgrade bill well into the high 7 digits, when MS
came along and said well give you the OSs for free if you migrate. You
just can't factor in for situations like that. Although some companies,
like one I have just worked for, have no technical in house ability at
all and listened to a reputable consultant, who didn't necessarilly make
the right decisions. The company certainly didn't have anyone within to
checkup on the consultant with their own research. These tend to be
smaller companies with smaller budgets, staff number in double digits
with 7 figure turnovers, these smaller companies are typically my normal
client. They've often been given advice which wasn't exactly long term
advice. My name seems to be getting thrown around as a trouble
shooter/fixer. I'd like the opportunity to get in on the ground floor
of fresh projects, but sadly have not reached that reputable stage yet.


*nod* I feel you there. But there is really nothing you can do about that
though. I do a lot of clean ups and a number of ground up and migration
products. I tell you this tho- same thing I used to tell my students when I was
teaching- you **really** earn your rep on the clean up side of things. Ground
up will do that but in this field its the maintanance that is more imporatant.
If you can support what you've done or management the growth of your application
your in trouble- like you said "long term". I've seen consultant names talked
about for years because of how *bad* their design was too. If you've got a good
rep now for clean-up, it only a matter of time before someone says, "well lets
go with Tony 'cause he going to do it right the first time".

It seems rather illogical that you'd refuse to work with a company that
had been given potentially sub-standard advice, based on what appears to
be a theological view?


I'm sure the MySQL folks don't think they are sub-standard. A fair amount

of my
business is "clean up" so if someone said, "we have an app on MySQL that is

not
working for us" I would most definitely be interested. If someone said to

me
what DB do I use to build applications, I would say PG. If then someone

says to
me that "well we're a MySQL shop" then I would have to hear more because
depending on what they want to do, I might not take on that project. There

is
nothing illogical or theological in that.


Absolutely nothing wrong with that. Apologies as that's not how I
interpreted your email. My bad on that.


No prob :)

Either that or you have more consulting work than you know what to do
with, that you can afford to base business decisions on an ideological
basis.


This really doesn't make sense. Are you telling me you are going to accept

any
an all work regardless of competency and confidence in that product? Would

you
really build a financial application on MySQL? We both know that we all

have a
certain ideology (read: religion) when it comes to our trade. To be clear,

I'm
not saying anything against someone who would use MySQL for a financial app.

I'm just saying that I would not (or at least try very hard not to) involve
myself in that project or any other project where I thought there was a bad
design or implementation.


To a certian extend you're right although if I had something useful to
offer to the project, I'd certainly want to be there when (inevitably)
someone (MySQL) dropped the ball and make sure PG was right there to
pick up the pieces. I certainly don't have a religion though, I always
try to use the right tool for the job at hand. The bad thing about many
advocates in the OS environment is that they have the Linux hammer, and
everything they see tends to look like a nail. This is also true for
MySQL and many other projects.


Heheh, ok, I see your point. I gotta admit a good number of my Linux
implementations (and OSS) in general have come out of the fact that other
solutions have failed. Sometimes thats frustration because you feel like saying
"I told you so" but in the end whats good for OS is good for OS regardless of
when it happens. Damn that father time! *laff*
When you are a smaller operation your reputation is going to weigh in a lot

more
than a larger company. I do not want my name to be tied to something
sub-standard. If a consultant values his or her reputation I don't see how

you
can NOT consider what products you are willing to put your name on the line

for.


Agreed, but MySQL is not bad for everything, like all software it has a
place in the great scheme of things. IMHO it's a perfect way to get your
feet wet in the RDBMS world, it's the next step up from Paradox, Access,
etc. How many key applications in a even a large company have you seen
using Access, it's natural project sprawl.


Hehe, yea those infamous Access "Apps".

Even though I use PG for everything, I know that MySQL is probably fine for most
web site servering up what I would call "lightweigh t dynamic content". My
experience has taught me that most organizations will grow fairly quickly to the
point of needing something on the level with PG. So, you can do it now
"properly" (with PG or something similar) or migrate it later (MySQL, Access, et
al). If someone really wanted MySQL for something "light", I'm pretty sure I
would not have a problem putting someone on that project. What I would not do
is commit a consultant to something that has all the markings of being a bear to
deploy and maintain.

If I chose not to work with companies that used Windows as servers
(because IMHO, Windows is not a good server environment) my house
would've been repossessed, and I'd have probably starved by now.

T.

12 years ago calling myself a consultant one day meant putting in a netware

3.11
server for a bunch of PCs and MACs and pulling coax. Did I want to do that-

I
can't really say because at the time I had to eat. That for me is on the

outer
fringes of this thread. Few organzations are NOT using Windows somewhere,

and
an increasing number of organizations are starting understand OSS solutions.

So
both world are merging so it not about avoiding and one thing. Its about
picking an choosing your battles.

Keith C. Perry wrote:

The way I look at it is that I probably don't want to deal with a
company that thinks that MySQL on windows is "good environment".



--
Keith C. Perry, MS E.E.
Director of Networks & Applications
VCSN, Inc.
http://vcsn.com

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Nov 12 '05 #66
Quoting Dave Cramer <pg@fastcrypt.c om>:
Keith,

In principal it can, however lets say that I am a complete newbie to
postgres and I want to use my favourite interface odbc, jdbc, .... etc.

So I download the source tarball and build it, then I goto find my
interface ... and it isn't there ( in all fairness jdbc is still there
but that won't be true shortly )

The same is true for most tools; psql being the exception

Now what do I do, I have to hunt around for the tools looking through a
myriad of projects on gborg, go to the lists etc.
The current README (well the 7.4 one) could do a better job of saying that gborg
is where you should look for links for all things PG. I wouldn't say that you
have to "hunt" for things though.
Admittedly this deterrent won't stop a determined newbie from finding
what they are after, but I'm sure there are some folk who would just
assume that postgres is deficient in this area. Note some previous posts
from others which demonstrates my point.
http://archives.postgresql.org/pgsql...2/msg01358.php

This gentleman finally found pgadmin III which solved his problem. But
I'm sure he had to look for it.
Short of the README file with the source release and reorganizing the web site.
I don't see what else could be done. I sincerely hope we're not going the path
of MS and trying to make things "idiot proof". PostgreSQL is robust complex
product and at a certain point I would think the powers that be would have to
say enough is enough as it relates to trying to make things easy.

On a side note though, I did try to search of "php interface" (something I know
nothing about as it relates to PG) from the search link on the main website and
I had to cancel it because it never returned anything after several minutes.
That definitely would be frustrating to a new/prospective user.

Dave
On Sun, 2003-12-28 at 13:00, Keith C. Perry wrote:
I've asked this before and I'll apologize now if there was a response but

how
does http://gborg.postgresql.org NOT fill this.

Quoting Chris Travers <ch***@travelam ericas.com>:
Hi all;

The problem with trying to maintain an image of unity is that PostgreSQL is moving in a direction of being sort of like a kernel. In this sense, we
already are unified. But regarding new types, client libs, etc. then unity is neither necessary nor desirable IMO.

If that is something that some people see here as important, maybe they can start their own PostgreSQL "distributions. " Maybe we can link to them via the PostgreSQL advocacy site :-)

Best Wishes,
Chris Travers

----- Original Message -----
From: "Dave Cramer" <pg@fastcrypt.c om>
To: "Robert Treat" <xz****@users.s ourceforge.net>
Cc: "Marc G. Fournier" <sc*****@postgr esql.org>;
<pg***********@ postgresql.org>
Sent: Sunday, December 28, 2003 5:31 AM
Subject: Re: [GENERAL] Is my MySQL Gaining ?
> Well, I'm not suggesting that we force them to do anything, just give
> the appearance of unity, this should be possible with tools available,
> no?
>
> Dave
> On Sat, 2003-12-27 at 16:57, Robert Treat wrote:
> > But your examples also lists things like interface libraries. For
> > postgresql to do that, we would have to pick specific interfaces
> > applications / libraries, then have them all centralize their
> > development/release process around the main distribution. If you can get > > everyone to agree to this (and I recommend starting by picking the
> > official python interface), we can start down a unified path, but I
> > don't see it happening.
> >
> > Robert Treat
> >
> > On Sat, 2003-12-27 at 09:41, Dave Cramer wrote:
> > > Regardless of the reasons, perception is reality. If we appear to be > > > disheveled then we are.
> > >
> > > I would think that it should be possible to give the appearance of
unity
> > > without actually requiring a full time web-master?
> > >
> > >
> > > Dave
> > >
> > > On Fri, 2003-12-26 at 12:43, Marc G. Fournier wrote:
> > > > On Fri, 26 Dec 2003, Dave Cramer wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > One thing that they do have over postgres is a unified experience, one
> > > > > doesn't have to go to n different sites to find things, such as > > > > > interface libraries, advocacy sites, development sites, etc.
> > > >
> > > > Course they don't ... cause they have one, full time, paid webmaster that
> > > > has nothing else on his plate ... one advantage to being able to
control
> > > > everything is the ability to keep everything centralized ...
> > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Dave
> > > > >
> > > > > On Fri, 2003-12-26 at 11:53, Marc G. Fournier wrote:
> > > > > > On Fri, 26 Dec 2003, B. van Ouwerkerk wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > I think I will switch to PG anywhere soon but sometimes it's hard to
> > > > > > > find whatever information I need. Google is a great help but I would
> > > > > > > expect it in the docs.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Like ... ?
> > > > > >
> > > > > > ----
> > > > > > Marc G. Fournier Hub.Org Networking Services
(http://www.hub.org)
> > > > > > Email: sc*****@hub.org Yahoo!: yscrappy
ICQ: 7615664
> > > > > >
>
>
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>
>
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--
Keith C. Perry, MS E.E.
Director of Networks & Applications
VCSN, Inc.
http://vcsn.com

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Nov 12 '05 #67
Keith C. Perry (Sunday 28 December 2003 17:55)
This gentleman finally found pgadmin III which solved his problem. But
I'm sure he had to look for it.


Short of the README file with the source release and reorganizing the web
site. I don't see what else could be done. I sincerely hope we're not
going the path of MS and trying to make things "idiot proof". PostgreSQL
is robust complex product and at a certain point I would think the powers
that be would have to say enough is enough as it relates to trying to make
things easy.


I think that a combined package of PostgreSQL and pgAdmin III should be
available.

Vertu sll,

--
Sigr Bjrn Jararson (Casey Allen Shobe)
http://rivyn.livejournal.com

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Nov 12 '05 #68
The example I gave was one where my app was designed to replace the old way
of doing things (in this case excel). Replacing an Excel spreadsheet with a
database-driven appliation is one area where you have no additional risk of
information loss when you are running any RDBMS on the system.

Also, here in Indonesia, most of these B&B's charge less than $30/night.
Purchasing a new system (often $700 or more) is the equivalent of 23
room-nights (for a place which typically has fewer than 10 rooms). Used
PC's are out of the question because usually they have hardware issues, and
so the cost savings would be marginal.

Please remember that the economic tradeoff of whether to buy an additional
system varies quite a bit around the world. For this reason, I decided to
build my application to be platform and database agnostic, supporting both
Firebird and PostgreSQL.

Best Wishes,
Chris Travers
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Nov 12 '05 #69
The other problem though is that I might want to SET the variable from a
query result. Is there any way I can do that within psql?

For example, something that would allow me to run a query, set the variable
from the query result and then use that variable in another set of queries.
This would drastically help on maintaining upgrade scripts for my db's.

Best Wishes,
Chris Travers
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Nov 12 '05 #70

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