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Is my MySQL Gaining ?

Dear all,

Their was a huge rore about MySQL recently for something in java functions
now theirs one more

http://www.mysql.com/doc/en/News-5.0.x.html

Does this concern anyone.

What I think is PostgreSQL would have less USP's (Uniqe Selling Points
though we dont sell) now.

What do you think yes we PostgreSQL users need some introspection.

Regards,
Vishal Kashyap.

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Nov 12 '05
175 11565
> When I started with PostgreSQL and MySQL, MySQL was far easier
to use


I started with MySQL and it WAS easier to use. It was easier because
the manual essentially reads:

-- we didn't implement anything complicated that's why
-- we are fast.

The only SQL customizations that MySQL has that I really miss in PostgreSQL
are the commands:

SHOW DATABASES;
SHOW TABLES;
DESC table;

That was ubber simple to do in MySQL. To this day, I have trouble with
that in PostgreSQL. I'm constantly doing:

psql> \?
psql> help;
ERROR: syntax error at or near "help" at character 1
psql> \h
...
* damnit, that's not it...*
psql> \?
psql> \d
* ok, now which flag do I use for tables vs functions..etc? *

I finally figure it out, I just end up forgetting again later. I still
have no clue how I'd find the same data without using psql. In MySQL
I can run those queries from PHP, PERL...etc. I know you can find that
data in system tables in PostgreSQL, but I don't wanna muck around with
all that. I just wanna do something as simple as MySQL.

Course, with that said... I've been building ALL my database apps with
PostgreSQL because it just simply works even if it doesn't always work
simple-ly.

As a plug, though ... I'm hooked on EMS PostgreSQL Manager 2.0. I'd have
to say that I'd not be as much of a PostgreSQL supporter if it weren't for
this client tool. I think EMS did the 'making it friendly to the developer'
that was sorely lacking in stock PostgreSQL client tools. Kudos.

Dante

----------
D. Dante Lorenso
da***@lorenso.c om


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Nov 12 '05 #41
D. Dante Lorenso (Sunday 28 December 2003 00:45)
The only SQL customizations that MySQL has that I really miss in PostgreSQL
are the commands:

SHOW DATABASES;
SHOW TABLES;
DESC table;


I agree here. Similarly, one of the things I miss most from DB2 is 'LIST
TABLES'. I don't have any problem at all remembering \commands - the only
problem is, as you described, that they are unique to psql.

One of the things I miss most from MSSQL is the ability to use variables.
Supposedly MySQL has this ability as well. I can come up with a very good
reason if you want to hear it ;-).

Vertu sŠll,

--
Sig■ˇr Bj÷rn Jar­arson (Casey Allen Shobe)
http://rivyn.livejournal.com

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Nov 12 '05 #42
On Sun, Dec 28, 2003 at 02:42:20AM -0500, Casey Allen Shobe wrote:
D. Dante Lorenso (Sunday 28 December 2003 00:45)
The only SQL customizations that MySQL has that I really miss in PostgreSQL
are the commands:

SHOW DATABASES;
SHOW TABLES;
DESC table;
I agree here. Similarly, one of the things I miss most from DB2 is 'LIST
TABLES'. I don't have any problem at all remembering \commands - the only
problem is, as you described, that they are unique to psql.


Yes, they do vary, there is no stardard. As you point out, DB2 and MySQL use
different commands, as does probably every other database. There is no
command that is going to work everywhere.
One of the things I miss most from MSSQL is the ability to use variables.
Supposedly MySQL has this ability as well. I can come up with a very good
reason if you want to hear it ;-).
psql has variables, though I can't comment on how they compare to MSSQL's.

--
Martijn van Oosterhout <kl*****@svana. org> http://svana.org/kleptog/ (... have gone from d-i being barely usable even by its developers
anywhere, to being about 20% done. Sweet. And the last 80% usually takes
20% of the time, too, right?) -- Anthony Towns, debian-devel-announce


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Nov 12 '05 #43
Chris Travers wrote:
Regarding the importance of PostgreSQL on Windows.

For example, I am developing a hotel reservation management application
using Python and PostgreSQL (http://sourceforge.net/projects/openres). This
will only run on Linux and UNIX, so in order to get this to run on Windows,
I need to use either MySQL or Firebird. Or aI can require Cygwin. But that
is a bit over the top IMO, for a small hotel or B&B to consider, especially
because I want to run it if possible on existing equipment to keep
implimentation costs down.


Who cares about where the GUI must run?
May you please explain me why the GUI must be on the same DB server?
After all is better have the user's hand far away from the datas.
Regards
Gaetano Mendola
Nov 12 '05 #44
>As a plug, though ... I'm hooked on EMS PostgreSQL Manager 2.0. I'd have
to say that I'd not be as much of a PostgreSQL supporter if it weren't for
this client tool. I think EMS did the 'making it friendly to the
developer'
that was sorely lacking in stock PostgreSQL client tools. Kudos.


This is a good point.

Postgres the db is great. psql is fine but you have to know it well to get
the most out of it, and you need to know which views and tables to query
to make "sense" of your database (when you're away from your DB data
models etc).

For the newbie (myself included) this can be daunting and hard. Coupled
with 'light' documentation, this presents a learning curve which is
significant if you've never used an enterprise level db before, and you're
floundering around with the difference between databases, schemas and
users (etc).

I have found pgAdmin III to be an absolute godsend - this product is
brilliant. With it, I can see all databases, schemas, objects, and grants
quickly and clearly. This one tool turned postgres into an absolute joy to
use (in much the same way that TOAD makes Oracle a joy to use).

I reckon that I use psql and pgAdmin III in equal proportion, but for me
it's pgAdmin III that makes postgres compelling and blindingly good.

John Sidney-Woollett

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Nov 12 '05 #45
Martijn van Oosterhout (Sunday 28 December 2003 02:57)
Yes, they do vary, there is no stardard. As you point out, DB2 and MySQL
use different commands, as does probably every other database. There is no
command that is going to work everywhere.
That's not what I meant. I mean that they *only* work in the psql client, not
when using PostgreSQL via ODBC or another interface.
psql has variables, though I can't comment on how they compare to MSSQL's.


Do you happen to have a link to documentation? If these aren't new, then I've
just somehow overlooked it. I'd love to read further...

Vertu sŠll,

--
Sig■ˇr Bj÷rn Jar­arson (Casey Allen Shobe)
http://rivyn.livejournal.com

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Nov 12 '05 #46
On Sun, Dec 28, 2003 at 04:29:56AM -0500, Casey Allen Shobe wrote:
Martijn van Oosterhout (Sunday 28 December 2003 02:57)
Yes, they do vary, there is no stardard. As you point out, DB2 and MySQL
use different commands, as does probably every other database. There isno
command that is going to work everywhere.
That's not what I meant. I mean that they *only* work in the psql client, not
when using PostgreSQL via ODBC or another interface.


Hmm, I see. Obviously you could use the -E option to get the queries but it's
not the same I grant you. SQL now defines an INFORMATION_SCH EMA, maybe that
will bring some method to the madness.
psql has variables, though I can't comment on how they compare to MSSQL's.


Do you happen to have a link to documentation? If these aren't new, thenI've
just somehow overlooked it. I'd love to read further...


Interesting, I found them in psql's manpage under ADVANCED FEATURES -
VARIABLES. Let's see if I can find it on the web... Here's a web version of
the manpage.

http://www.postgresql.org/docs/curre.../app-psql.html

They're not in the backend though, though I'm not sure why you'd want that.
Ofcourse, pl/pgsql has variables as do all the other languages.

Hope this helps,
--
Martijn van Oosterhout <kl*****@svana. org> http://svana.org/kleptog/ (... have gone from d-i being barely usable even by its developers
anywhere, to being about 20% done. Sweet. And the last 80% usually takes
20% of the time, too, right?) -- Anthony Towns, debian-devel-announce


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Nov 12 '05 #47

On 28/12/2003 08:47 John Sidney-Woollett wrote:
I have found pgAdmin III to be an absolute godsend - this product is
brilliant. With it, I can see all databases, schemas, objects, and grants
quickly and clearly. This one tool turned postgres into an absolute joy
to
use (in much the same way that TOAD makes Oracle a joy to use).


FWIW, TOAD as shipped with Fedora Core 1 has support for PostgreSQL :)

--
Paul Thomas
+------------------------------+---------------------------------------------+
| Thomas Micro Systems Limited | Software Solutions for the Smaller
Business |
| Computer Consultants |
http://www.thomas-micro-systems-ltd.co.uk |
+------------------------------+---------------------------------------------+

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Nov 12 '05 #48

On 28/12/2003 01:57 Chris Travers wrote:
Regarding the importance of PostgreSQL on Windows.

For example, I am developing a hotel reservation management application
using Python and PostgreSQL (http://sourceforge.net/projects/openres).
This
will only run on Linux and UNIX, so in order to get this to run on
Windows,
I need to use either MySQL or Firebird. Or aI can require Cygwin. But
that
is a bit over the top IMO, for a small hotel or B&B to consider,
especially
because I want to run it if possible on existing equipment to keep
implimentation costs down.

I'm in a similar situation. My app is currently PG-only (although I
_might_ be able to get it work with Firebird eventually). Currently I have
to sell Linux to prospective clients in addition to my app. A native
Windows version would make my life a bit easier.
--
Paul Thomas
+------------------------------+---------------------------------------------+
| Thomas Micro Systems Limited | Software Solutions for the Smaller
Business |
| Computer Consultants |
http://www.thomas-micro-systems-ltd.co.uk |
+------------------------------+---------------------------------------------+

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Nov 12 '05 #49
The confusing license terms and conditions was one of the main reasons I
appeared on this list some weeks ago, when I was considering a
commercial venture using a JDBC client application, and couldn't
untangle who needed licenses, how many and what for exactly. After a
breif foray on #postgresql getting some newbie questions answered (like:
can PG do everything that MySQL can) don't laugh, I was new to this
remember. I was informed that PG was the tool for the job. After
having a conversation about Views, Triggers, Stored Procedures, I
decided to find out what these things were and joined this list. Never
looked back......

But...

I was on #php a day or two ago, and mentioned PG to someone who was
looking to solve a problem, he was quite interested, and asked what else
PG could do. So I told him:

Me: It has views.
Him: What are they?

Me: It has Stored Procedures
Him: Are They Good? What Do They Do?

Me: It has Triggers.
Him: Will they help me?

This really rattled some peoples cages and I ended up defending PG
against some really ill thought out attacks. Like:

MySQL User: But can PG deal with really complicated joins.
Me: In many cases the extra functionality of PG avoids the problems
where really complicated joins would be needed in MySQL

MySQL User: But MySQL is fast, PG is not so fast.
Me: With PG you can move much of the functionality INTO the database
using stored procedures, these stored procedures will run faster than
interpreted PHP, therefore taking the load away from the webserver.

MySQL User: But my Apache/MySQL can handle squillions of hits/queries
etc, PG probably couldn't. Do you know any sites that have a lot of
traffic that use PG.
Me: Ummmm... try the .org registry, I'm sure they have a reasonable
traffic load.

MySQL User: What project made you move to PG from MySQL
Me: The confusing licensing conditions when I wanted to write a
commercial app based on MySQL.

This completely killed all traffic on the channel for a minute or two,
while the cogs and gears whirred while people tried to Grock the concept
of OSS MySQL costing money to use in an application.

After this lengthy defence and answering many questions without the
slightest hesitation from me (and I'm new to PG), it made me realise why
I was thinking about a PostgreSQL for MySQL users paper.

Just My 2 Cents

Tony

Chris Travers wrote:
I would be surprised if people selling proprietary apps would
choose MySQL over PostgreSQL.

Simply put my point is that software can be proprietary or open source, but
projects which try to do both often end up losing out. I see MySQL as
trying to do both.

As much as I like the idea of open sourse software, at this time, there is
still a substantial market for proprietary applications, and although it may
fade over time (and has already done so considerably), it is a market that
must open source software must co-exist with rather than simply attempting
to assimilate or trying to belong to both communities.. This is also why I
have argued that the GPL is intended for self-contained projects, of which
MySQL is not, when you include the client libs.


Nov 12 '05 #50

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