473,839 Members | 1,485 Online
Bytes | Software Development & Data Engineering Community
+ Post

Home Posts Topics Members FAQ

Humor me: Postgresql vs. MySql (esp. licensing)

Yes, I know you've seen the above subject before, so please be gentle with
the flamethrowers.

I'm preparing to enter a discussion with management at my company
regarding going forward as either a MySql shop or a Postgresql shop.

It's my opinion that we should be using PG, because of the full ACID
support, and the license involved. A consultant my company hired before
bringing me in is pushing hard for MySql, citing speed and community
support, as well as ACID support.

My biggest concern with MySQL is licensing. We need to keep costs low,
and last I remember the parent company was being pretty strict on "fair
use" under the GPL. If I recall, they even said a company would have to
license the commercial version if it were simply used operationally within
the company.

Also, I was under the impression that Postgresql had pretty much caught up
with MySql in the speed category...is this not the case?

Finally, ACID support in mysql always seemed kind of a hack....perhaps
this has changed?

Thanks for any input (armament ;) ) you can provide.

John

---------------------------(end of broadcast)---------------------------
TIP 3: if posting/reading through Usenet, please send an appropriate
subscribe-nomail command to ma*******@postg resql.org so that your
message can get through to the mailing list cleanly

Nov 12 '05
74 8070
Jeffrey Melloy wrote:
On Thursday, October 9, 2003, at 01:42 AM, Shridhar Daithankar wrote:
Do a shutdown -h on a live database machine with pg. It will
gracefully shut itself down.

Shridhar

I'm curious ... do MySQL lists talk about this as much as we do? What
do they say?

"Well, we run Slashdot."
"Well, we can "select count(*) faster"
"We have all the features they do! Nobody uses views or triggers!"


Simple question. Why do we care?

Nobody here talks about mysql on their own. Its always somebody who asks for
comparison or comment or help migrating to/from mysql etc.(Exception advocacy.
Its our job there...)

These lists are to help people who look at postgresql and do/want to use it.
Mysql discussion usually remains on periphery of being relevant. Its is
discussed because being in touch helps while doing any fair comparison.

Otherwise IMO mysql is irrelevant on any of postgresql lists. It exists, fine.
It is popular, even more fine.

In fact lately I have refused to help couple of guys who insisted on mysql. I
have better things to do than to sell postgresql/linux/<other open source
platform>. If somebody needs genuine help, they listen to polite language. If
they don't, I am off..:-)

Saves a lot of time usually..

Shridhar
---------------------------(end of broadcast)---------------------------
TIP 5: Have you checked our extensive FAQ?

http://www.postgresql.org/docs/faqs/FAQ.html

Nov 12 '05 #41
>
"Well, we run Slashdot."
"Well, we can "select count(*) faster"
"We have all the features they do! Nobody uses views or triggers!"


"The feature is planned, but most people get along fine without it."

Jon
---------------------------(end of broadcast)---------------------------
TIP 3: if posting/reading through Usenet, please send an appropriate
subscribe-nomail command to ma*******@postg resql.org so that your
message can get through to the mailing list cleanly

Nov 12 '05 #42
jo*****@eskimo. com (Jonathan Bartlett) writes:
However, the reason the industry switched to relational databases
was that they cared more that they had consistent data that worked
with multiple applications that was able to guarantee data integrity
(i.e. - support for views, constraints, and triggers) than they were
about speed. In fact, the first relational databases were 50x
slower that their hierarchical and network counterparts. However,
the industry still switched because data integrity and data
independence is worth that much.


If I understand the history of things correctly, a big part of the
reason why the industry switched from IMS to DB/2 and Oracle was that
they could live with the manyfold diminishment of performance, but
desperately needed to have the flexibility that RDBMSes bought them.

The IMS applications, where navigation and validation logic had to be
hard-coded into the applications, were getting to be too much to cope
with.

I suspect that the Telco folks are still fighting with this to some
degree even to this day; everyone I have known that has been involved
with telco billing applications have found them to be an absolute
horror. A few years ago, I observed cases of them being unable to
offer the new products that Sales were selling because they couldn't
integrate in the code to support BILLING for the new services...
There was a coworker at SHL Systemhouse that kept getting stuck back
on an infamous such project after regular promises that "this will be
the VERY LAST TIME." After 3 "last times," he quit and moved to New
Zealand so they couldn't call him again. :-)

It seems to me that what we are observing here is that "youngsters "
with neither an interest in history nor the maturity of having
experienced some "IT war wounds" are heading in the very same
directions as the IMS people of the '60s.

There are big enough challenges when we use every bit of integrity
checking that we can get our hands on; when no attempt is made to do
it, that's just disaster.
--
select 'cbbrowne' || '@' || 'libertyrms.inf o';
<http://dev6.int.libert yrms.com/>
Christopher Browne
(416) 646 3304 x124 (land)
Nov 12 '05 #43
>>>>> "SD" == Shridhar Daithankar <sh************ *****@persisten t.co.in> writes:

SD> Do a shutdown -h on a live database machine with pg. It will
SD> gracefully shut itself down.
I think it is a timing issue. The PG has no way to notify the OS that
it has finished exiting, so if it takes a long time to exit, the OS
will ungracefully kill the DB process(es). Doesn't matter what DB (or
any other application) you're running, you *can* lose data this way.

--
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
Vivek Khera, Ph.D. Khera Communications, Inc.
Internet: kh***@kciLink.c om Rockville, MD +1-240-453-8497
AIM: vivekkhera Y!: vivek_khera http://www.khera.org/~vivek/

---------------------------(end of broadcast)---------------------------
TIP 9: the planner will ignore your desire to choose an index scan if your
joining column's datatypes do not match

Nov 12 '05 #44
Yes, but at least with transactions when the machine comes back up
you'll be in a consistant state. Ie: postgres will know the transaction
didn't finish, and should rollback what it was doing, when it starts up
again.

Without transactions you don't know if half of your operation completed
or all of it or etc.. pretty dangerous state to have your data in.

Or... at least this is now I understand it.

Jeff.

On Thu, 2003-10-09 at 14:30, Vivek Khera wrote:
>> "SD" == Shridhar Daithankar <sh************ *****@persisten t.co.in> writes:


SD> Do a shutdown -h on a live database machine with pg. It will
SD> gracefully shut itself down.
I think it is a timing issue. The PG has no way to notify the OS that
it has finished exiting, so if it takes a long time to exit, the OS
will ungracefully kill the DB process(es). Doesn't matter what DB (or
any other application) you're running, you *can* lose data this way.

---------------------------(end of broadcast)---------------------------
TIP 5: Have you checked our extensive FAQ?

http://www.postgresql.org/docs/faqs/FAQ.html

Nov 12 '05 #45
On Thu, 9 Oct 2003 01:28, John Wells wrote:
Yes, I know you've seen the above subject before, so please be gentle with
the flamethrowers.

I'm preparing to enter a discussion with management at my company
regarding going forward as either a MySql shop or a Postgresql shop.

It's my opinion that we should be using PG, because of the full ACID
support, and the license involved. A consultant my company hired before
bringing me in is pushing hard for MySql, citing speed and community
support, as well as ACID support.


Apologies for the empty reply - my mind is on brain death so I needed to
imitate it.

I'll address only the alleged community support for MySql because you will
get much better qualified replies to your other concerns from others.

About 18 months ago I had to choose a DB for my home grown small systems.
Knowing very little about them I lurked on the both this list and a MySql
list for a couple of months.

In contrast to this list, the MySql one not only had a high proportion of
brain dead questions, there were a fair few answers of the same grade too.

I quickly decided that Postgresql was the better product by far for that and
many other reasons.

HTH
Bob

---------------------------(end of broadcast)---------------------------
TIP 4: Don't 'kill -9' the postmaster

Nov 12 '05 #46
Oliver Elphick wrote:
But as far as Debian is concerned, paragraph 1 applies:

1. Free use for those who are 100% GPL

If your application is licensed under GPL or compatible OSI license
approved by MySQL AB, you are free and welcome to ship any GPL software
of MySQL AB with your application. By "applicatio n" we mean any type of
software application, system, tool or utility. For doing this, you do
not need a separate signed agreement with MySQL AB, because the GPL text
is sufficient...

That makes it free under the Debian Free Software Guidelines, so I have
no grounds for requesting its removal. :-(

Just out of curiosity, what does Debian make MySQL's rather bizarre
interpretaion of the GPL:

http://www.mysql.com/documentation/m...html#Copyright
--- begin quote ----

You need a commercial license:
[...]
When you distribute a non-|GPL| application that *only* works with
the |MySQL| software and ship it with the |MySQL| software. This type of
solution is considered to be linking even if it's done over a network.

--- end quote ----
"Linking over a network"? What stops some GPL'ed web server (or
commercial one for that matter) from demanding non-free licensing for
web clients that connect to it?

- Marsh

---------------------------(end of broadcast)---------------------------
TIP 5: Have you checked our extensive FAQ?

http://www.postgresql.org/docs/faqs/FAQ.html

Nov 12 '05 #47
> I think it is a timing issue. The PG has no way to notify the OS that
it has finished exiting, so if it takes a long time to exit, the OS
will ungracefully kill the DB process(es). Doesn't matter what DB (or
any other application) you're running, you *can* lose data this way.
No, writet-ahead logs prevent problems in this way.

Jon


--
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
Vivek Khera, Ph.D. Khera Communications, Inc.
Internet: kh***@kciLink.c om Rockville, MD +1-240-453-8497
AIM: vivekkhera Y!: vivek_khera http://www.khera.org/~vivek/

---------------------------(end of broadcast)---------------------------
TIP 9: the planner will ignore your desire to choose an index scan if your
joining column's datatypes do not match

---------------------------(end of broadcast)---------------------------
TIP 9: the planner will ignore your desire to choose an index scan if your
joining column's datatypes do not match

Nov 12 '05 #48
El Jue 09 Oct 2003 22:44, Marsh Ray escribió:
Just out of curiosity, what does Debian make MySQL's rather bizarre
interpretaion of the GPL:

http://www.mysql.com/documentation/m...roduction.html
#Copyright --- begin quote ----

You need a commercial license:
[...]
When you distribute a non-|GPL| application that *only* works with
the |MySQL| software and ship it with the |MySQL| software. This type of
solution is considered to be linking even if it's done over a network.

--- end quote ----
"Linking over a network"? What stops some GPL'ed web server (or
commercial one for that matter) from demanding non-free licensing for
web clients that connect to it?


I would like to know what Debian is going to do with PHP and MySQL. There's
alot of talk about this in the PHP related lists.
PHP folks do think that there may be some sort of incompatibility between the
two licenses.

--
08:49:01 up 7 days, 18:26, 2 users, load average: 0.14, 0.18, 0.25
-----------------------------------------------------------------
Martín Marqués | mm******@unl.ed u.ar
Programador, Administrador, DBA | Centro de Telematica
Universidad Nacional
del Litoral
-----------------------------------------------------------------
---------------------------(end of broadcast)---------------------------
TIP 3: if posting/reading through Usenet, please send an appropriate
subscribe-nomail command to ma*******@postg resql.org so that your
message can get through to the mailing list cleanly

Nov 12 '05 #49
On Thu, 9 Oct 2003, Vivek Khera wrote:
>> "SD" == Shridhar Daithankar <sh************ *****@persisten t.co.in> writes:


SD> Do a shutdown -h on a live database machine with pg. It will
SD> gracefully shut itself down.
I think it is a timing issue. The PG has no way to notify the OS that
it has finished exiting, so if it takes a long time to exit, the OS
will ungracefully kill the DB process(es). Doesn't matter what DB (or
any other application) you're running, you *can* lose data this way.


While it is possible to lose a non-committed transaction, WAL prevents the
database from becoming corrupted. Assuming proper fsyncing of your hard
drives (i.e. SCSI, or IDE with write cache disabled)
---------------------------(end of broadcast)---------------------------
TIP 6: Have you searched our list archives?

http://archives.postgresql.org

Nov 12 '05 #50

This thread has been closed and replies have been disabled. Please start a new discussion.

Similar topics

20
1509
by: John Wells | last post by:
Yes, I know you've seen the above subject before, so please be gentle with the flamethrowers. I'm preparing to enter a discussion with management at my company regarding going forward as either a MySql shop or a Postgresql shop. It's my opinion that we should be using PG, because of the full ACID support, and the license involved. A consultant my company hired before bringing me in is pushing hard for MySql, citing speed and community...
0
9854
marktang
by: marktang | last post by:
ONU (Optical Network Unit) is one of the key components for providing high-speed Internet services. Its primary function is to act as an endpoint device located at the user's premises. However, people are often confused as to whether an ONU can Work As a Router. In this blog post, we’ll explore What is ONU, What Is Router, ONU & Router’s main usage, and What is the difference between ONU and Router. Let’s take a closer look ! Part I. Meaning of...
0
9696
by: Hystou | last post by:
Most computers default to English, but sometimes we require a different language, especially when relocating. Forgot to request a specific language before your computer shipped? No problem! You can effortlessly switch the default language on Windows 10 without reinstalling. I'll walk you through it. First, let's disable language synchronization. With a Microsoft account, language settings sync across devices. To prevent any complications,...
0
10584
jinu1996
by: jinu1996 | last post by:
In today's digital age, having a compelling online presence is paramount for businesses aiming to thrive in a competitive landscape. At the heart of this digital strategy lies an intricately woven tapestry of website design and digital marketing. It's not merely about having a website; it's about crafting an immersive digital experience that captivates audiences and drives business growth. The Art of Business Website Design Your website is...
1
10645
by: Hystou | last post by:
Overview: Windows 11 and 10 have less user interface control over operating system update behaviour than previous versions of Windows. In Windows 11 and 10, there is no way to turn off the Windows Update option using the Control Panel or Settings app; it automatically checks for updates and installs any it finds, whether you like it or not. For most users, this new feature is actually very convenient. If you want to control the update process,...
1
7827
isladogs
by: isladogs | last post by:
The next Access Europe User Group meeting will be on Wednesday 1 May 2024 starting at 18:00 UK time (6PM UTC+1) and finishing by 19:30 (7.30PM). In this session, we are pleased to welcome a new presenter, Adolph Dupré who will be discussing some powerful techniques for using class modules. He will explain when you may want to use classes instead of User Defined Types (UDT). For example, to manage the data in unbound forms. Adolph will...
0
7015
by: conductexam | last post by:
I have .net C# application in which I am extracting data from word file and save it in database particularly. To store word all data as it is I am converting the whole word file firstly in HTML and then checking html paragraph one by one. At the time of converting from word file to html my equations which are in the word document file was convert into image. Globals.ThisAddIn.Application.ActiveDocument.Select();...
0
5681
by: TSSRALBI | last post by:
Hello I'm a network technician in training and I need your help. I am currently learning how to create and manage the different types of VPNs and I have a question about LAN-to-LAN VPNs. The last exercise I practiced was to create a LAN-to-LAN VPN between two Pfsense firewalls, by using IPSEC protocols. I succeeded, with both firewalls in the same network. But I'm wondering if it's possible to do the same thing, with 2 Pfsense firewalls...
1
4482
by: 6302768590 | last post by:
Hai team i want code for transfer the data from one system to another through IP address by using C# our system has to for every 5mins then we have to update the data what the data is updated we have to send another system
2
4063
muto222
by: muto222 | last post by:
How can i add a mobile payment intergratation into php mysql website.

By using Bytes.com and it's services, you agree to our Privacy Policy and Terms of Use.

To disable or enable advertisements and analytics tracking please visit the manage ads & tracking page.