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State of Beta 2


Anyone out there using beta 2 in production situations? Comments on
stability? I am rolling out a project in the next 4 weeks, and really
don't want to go though an upgrade soon after its released on an
Unsuspecting Client, so I would LIKE to start working with 7.4.

--------------------

Andrew Rawnsley
President
The Ravensfield Digital Resource Group, Ltd.
(740) 587-0114
www.ravensfield.com
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Nov 11 '05
236 10121
Joshua D. Drake wrote:
It is alot but is is not a lot for something like an Insurance company
or a bank. Also 100TB is probably non-compressed although 30TB is still
large.


Our requirements are such that this figure is our best guess after
compression. The amount of data prior to compression is much larger,
and consists of highly compressible astronomical observations in FITS
format.
--
Lamar Owen
Director of Information Technology
Pisgah Astronomical Research Institute

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Nov 11 '05 #101
Joshua D. Drake wrote:
Sure but IMHO it would be more important to fix bugs like the parser not
correctly using indexes on bigint unless the value is quoted... I think everyone would agree that not having to use initdb would be nice
but I think there is much more important things to focus on.
Important is relative.
Besides if you are upgrading PostgreSQL in a production environment I
would assume there would be an extremely valid reason. If the reason is
big enough to do a major version upgrade then an initdb shouldn't be all
that bad of a requirement.


I'm not going to rehash the arguments I have made before; they are all
archived. Suffice to say you are simply wrong. The number of
complaints over the years shows that there IS a need.
--
Lamar Owen
Director of Information Technology
Pisgah Astronomical Research Institute

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Nov 11 '05 #102

When I started this thread I made comment on the fact that this initdb
issue was treated somewhat "casually" on the lists. Not trying to
flame, or be an ass or anything, but this is kind of what I meant.

Yes, I know there many important issues the developers (bless their
overworked fingers) want/need to address that affect many people, and
I'm not going to presume to fault their choices. Some things make more
difference to others (the bigint indexing issue means little to me, for
example), so we try to point out these things in the hope that someone
may pick up on it, or the discussion may bear fruitful solutions that
no one had considered.

The initdb situation is a significant problem/obstacle to many people.
Avoiding it would be far more than 'nice' for us.

On Monday, September 15, 2003, at 02:24 PM, Joshua D. Drake wrote:
Strawmen. If we provide a good upgrade capability, we would just
simply have to think about upgrades before changing features like
that. The upgrade code could be cognizant of these sorts of things;
and shoud be, in fact.


Sure but IMHO it would be more important to fix bugs like the parser
not correctly using indexes on bigint unless the value is quoted...

I think everyone would agree that not having to use initdb would be
nice but I think there is much more important things to focus on.

Besides if you are upgrading PostgreSQL in a production environment I
would assume there would be an extremely valid reason. If the reason
is big enough to do a major version upgrade then an initdb shouldn't
be all that bad of a requirement.

J

--
Command Prompt, Inc., home of Mammoth PostgreSQL - S/ODBC and S/JDBC
Postgresql support, programming shared hosting and dedicated hosting.
+1-503-222-2783 - jd@commandpromp t.com - http://www.commandprompt.com
The most reliable support for the most reliable Open Source database.

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--------------------

Andrew Rawnsley
President
The Ravensfield Digital Resource Group, Ltd.
(740) 587-0114
www.ravensfield.com
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Nov 11 '05 #103
I'm not going to rehash the arguments I have made before; they are all
archived. Suffice to say you are simply wrong. The number of
complaints over the years shows that there IS a need.

I at no point suggested that there was not a need. I only suggest that
the need may not be as great as some suspect or feel. To be honest -- if
your arguments were the "need" that everyone had... it would have been
implemented some how. It hasn't yet which would suggest that the number
of people that have the "need" at your level is not as great as the
number of people who have different "needs" from PostgreSQL.

Sincerely,

Joshua Drake


--
Command Prompt, Inc., home of Mammoth PostgreSQL - S/ODBC and S/JDBC
Postgresql support, programming shared hosting and dedicated hosting.
+1-503-222-2783 - jd@commandpromp t.com - http://www.commandprompt.com
The most reliable support for the most reliable Open Source database.

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Nov 11 '05 #104
>>>>> "MGF" == Marc G Fournier <sc*****@postgr esql.org> writes:

MGF> On Sat, 13 Sep 2003, Lamar Owen wrote:
Can eRserver replicate a 7.3.x to a 7.2.x? Or 7.4.x to 7.3.x?


MGF> I thought we were talking about upgrades here?
I'm *really* interested in how eRServer works on migrating from 7.2 to
7.4 (either eRServer 1.2 or 1.3 :-) ) I have hopes of doing this once
7.4 goes gold. More testing for me, I guess.
--
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
Vivek Khera, Ph.D. Khera Communications, Inc.
Internet: kh***@kciLink.c om Rockville, MD +1-240-453-8497
AIM: vivekkhera Y!: vivek_khera http://www.khera.org/~vivek/

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Nov 11 '05 #105
>>>>> "JDD" == Joshua D Drake <jd@commandprom pt.com> writes:

JDD> Besides if you are upgrading PostgreSQL in a production environment I
JDD> would assume there would be an extremely valid reason. If the reason
JDD> is big enough to do a major version upgrade then an initdb shouldn't
JDD> be all that bad of a requirement.

One of my major reasons to want to move from 7.2 to 7.4 is that I
suffer from incredible index bloat. Reindex on one of my tables takes
about 45 minutes per each of the 3 indexes on it during which time
part of my system is blocked.

Granted, the one-time cost of the migration to 7.4 will probably take
about 5 hours of dump/restore, but at least with the re-indexing I can
do one 45 minute block at a atime stretched over a few days early
in the morning.

I think some sort of scripted migration/upgrade tool that used
eRServer would be way cool.

--
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
Vivek Khera, Ph.D. Khera Communications, Inc.
Internet: kh***@kciLink.c om Rockville, MD +1-240-453-8497
AIM: vivekkhera Y!: vivek_khera http://www.khera.org/~vivek/

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Nov 11 '05 #106


On Mon, 15 Sep 2003, Joshua D. Drake wrote:
I'm not going to rehash the arguments I have made before; they are all
archived. Suffice to say you are simply wrong. The number of
complaints over the years shows that there IS a need.

I at no point suggested that there was not a need. I only suggest that
the need may not be as great as some suspect or feel. To be honest -- if
your arguments were the "need" that everyone had... it would have been
implemented some how. It hasn't yet which would suggest that the number
of people that have the "need" at your level is not as great as the
number of people who have different "needs" from PostgreSQL.


Just to add to this ... Bruce *did* start pg_upgrade, but I don't recall
anyone else looking at extending it ... if the *need* was so great,
someone would have step'd up and looked into adding to what was already
there ...
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Nov 11 '05 #107
kh***@kcilink.c om (Vivek Khera) writes:
>> "MGF" == Marc G Fournier <sc*****@postgr esql.org> writes: MGF> On Sat, 13 Sep 2003, Lamar Owen wrote:
Can eRserver replicate a 7.3.x to a 7.2.x? Or 7.4.x to 7.3.x?


MGF> I thought we were talking about upgrades here?

I'm *really* interested in how eRServer works on migrating from 7.2 to
7.4 (either eRServer 1.2 or 1.3 :-) ) I have hopes of doing this once
7.4 goes gold. More testing for me, I guess.


I know that 7.2 to 7.3 is being actively looked at, but you're
presumably not getting straight answers on this because nobody has
FINISHED testing the process.

In any case, if your data is a "big deal" to you, there's no question
of doing some sort of blind "Download it, double click the icon;
accept the license agreement, and convert it all."

eRServer is complex enough critter that you would doubtless want to do
a "dry run" on a pair of test databases in order to make sure you know
what things need to be fiddled with in order to get it right.

There's going to be at least a _little_ bit of an outage involved in
switching the direction of replication between the databases, and you
surely want to do a dry run to let you know _all_ the details so that
you can build a checklist suitable to make sure that Going Live goes
as quickly and smoothly as possible, and to keep that outage as short
as possible.

Unfortunately, there are no "infinite" shortcuts to be had. (Not that
there aren't vendors out there willing to try to sell them... :-))
--
(reverse (concatenate 'string "ofni.smrytrebi l" "@" "enworbbc") )
<http://dev6.int.libert yrms.com/>
Christopher Browne
(416) 646 3304 x124 (land)
Nov 11 '05 #108
On Mon, 2003-09-15 at 14:40, Lamar Owen wrote:
Joshua D. Drake wrote:
It is alot but is is not a lot for something like an Insurance company
or a bank. Also 100TB is probably non-compressed although 30TB is still
large.


Our requirements are such that this figure is our best guess after
compression. The amount of data prior to compression is much larger,
and consists of highly compressible astronomical observations in FITS
format.


Just MHO, but I'd think about keeping the images outside of the
database (or in a separate database), since pg_dump is single-
threaded, and thus 1 CPU will be hammered trying to compress the
FITS files, while the other CPU(s) sit idle.

Of course, you could compress the images on the front end, saving
disk space and do uncompressed pg_dumps. The pg_dump would be IO
bound, then. But I'm sure you thought of that already...

The images would have to be uncompressed at view time, but that
could happen on the client, thus saving bandwidth, and distributing
CPU needs.

http://h18006.www1.hp.com/products/s...000/index.html
This box is pretty spiffy: "up to 119 TB of native capacity",
"Multi-unit scalability supporting up to 64 drives and 2278
cartridges".
Too bad it doesn't mention Linux.

--
-----------------------------------------------------------------
Ron Johnson, Jr. ro***********@c ox.net
Jefferson, LA USA

Great Inventors of our time:
Al Gore -> Internet
Sun Microsystems -> Clusters
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Nov 11 '05 #109
On Mon, 2003-09-15 at 14:40, Lamar Owen wrote:
Joshua D. Drake wrote:
It is alot but is is not a lot for something like an Insurance company
or a bank. Also 100TB is probably non-compressed although 30TB is still
large.


Our requirements are such that this figure is our best guess after
compression. The amount of data prior to compression is much larger,
and consists of highly compressible astronomical observations in FITS
format.


Wow, it just occurred to me: if you partition the data correctly,
you won't need to back it *all* up on a daily/weekly/monthly basis.

Once you back up a chunk of compressed images ("Orion, between 2001-
01-01 and 2001-01-31") a few times, no more need to back that data
up.

Thus, you don't need monster archival h/w like some of us do.

--
-----------------------------------------------------------------
Ron Johnson, Jr. ro***********@c ox.net
Jefferson, LA USA

484,246 sq mi are needed for 6 billion people to live, 4 persons
per lot, in lots that are 60'x150'.
That is ~ California, Texas and Missouri.
Alternatively, France, Spain and The United Kingdom.
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Nov 11 '05 #110

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